Efficiency Trolls

[IHasChicken]

Seriously.

 

I don't think anyone should be banned from either side of this.

 

I think debate is absolutely fine, and calling someone an idiot or a moron over the internet isn't actually going to hurt them as much as people think.

 

As long as you're not running around threatening to kill people, just live and let live.

[Smapla]

Even if you can not, will not, or do not want to use efficient training methods, you should still know about their existence, so you can make whatever decision you end up making for a good reason. If you are uncomfortable with mousekeys, don't have a numberpad, are dirt poor and like to roleplay being a fisherman, then you shouldn't do barbarian fishing, you should go to rocktails and enjoy it. But you should be aware of the fact that there are faster ways of training fishing, otherwise you may be limiting yourself through ignorance, which is never good. As long as you're aware of your options, whatever choice you make should be up to you. Help and advice should be a place where you can get this information. Then again, if you find a particular method of training to be really fun, I think it's worthwhile to tell other people who are interested in training that skill about it, because they may feel the same way. As long as you don't claim that it is the 'best' method when it may not be, informing people of more options can never hurt. Just don't make false claims about what should be factual or statistical information if you don't have it.

[Leyenda]

Yes

[obfuscator]

Obviously this is a heated topic that people take pretty seriously, which is fine. Insulting others, flaming, and trolling is not. Find a way to attack ideas, not people. Consider this the last warning for anyone involved: further posts that insult other people in any way will be removed and action may be taken against the user's forum account.

[All_Is_Great]

Most of the people in this thread don't know what troll means

Were curt because were tired of dealing with stupidity.

 

That makes me wonder if people felt that way why they even bother to help at all. It must get annoying seeing the same questions over and over, or someone obstinately saying their methods are correct when obviously wrong, but there's no need to pay them any heed.

Because we genuinely like improving things and helping other people get better.

 

Tip it moderations lack of support on the matter have made me and others give serious thought in leaving tip it.

 

But you don't really show genuine desire to improve things. Especially that whole Elitism topic you created.

Like where you basically said you were better than everyone else because of the way you played the game.

[Obtaurian]

Like I said earlier, it only becomes a problem when they're vehemently defending their idea. If they say fish sharks, people explain why rocktails are better, and they go "oh." and stop, that's fine. But if they go YOU GUYS ARE ALL JUST EFFICIENCY TROLLS SHARKS ARE FINE IF YOU LIKE THEM STOP TELLING ME WHAT TO DO, that's when it's trolling, and it happens a LOT.

 

^ This right here is exactly what happens nine times out of ten when an argument erupts in H&A. Here's a quote from a recent H&A thread in which the OP received alternative suggestions to his inquiry:

 

Would you just let people play how they want? Not everyone's goal is to be the most efficient player.

 

This type of response should be a bannable offence. It is so far removed from the idea of an informational and helpful post that the author must have gone out of his way to annoy frequent H&A posters (which, by the way, happens to be the "efficiency clowns"). There can be no misconceptions about whether this post should be removed. But you know what the worst part is? This is only one post by one user; I'm sure if I had gone through every H&A topic posted today (I typically leave non-combat skill inquiries alone), I would have found five more just like it. That's a problem. It's way too common.

 

When someone creates a thread in H&A, they should get two things: 1) a legitimate answer to their question(s) and 2) alternative suggestions, and both of these things should be based on objective facts unless the author specifies otherwise (and as Green9090 said earlier, this exception is pointless because we cannot tell the OP what the OP thinks is fun).

 

When someone comes along and tries to derail a thread because they feel that posters are attempting to "force" the OP to play Runescape their way, they are essentially impeding the OP by dragging the legitimately helpful posters away from the issue at hand in order to deal with: 1) ridiculous accusations and 2) ridiculous suggestions based on "fun" (an unquantifiable variable).

 

H&A topics should always be open to discussion. ALWAYS. Discussion breeds knowledge, and in a game where the developers keep their lips sealed about everything and we have to do the dirty work to figure [cabbage] out, discussion is vital. Any attempt to forestall said discussion on the basis that it pertains to "efficiency" is laughable at best, and very harmful to the community at worst (especially when people are given false advice because a poster claiming an "anti-efficiency" stance decides to throw in his/her two cents).

 

I don't get where help & advice transitioned into help with efficiency.

 

Posting in H&A isn't asking for the most efficient methods unless they are asked for in some way. Best way, better, tip on doing, help and other terms are all subjective. When discussing a topic, efficiency and fun have to be considered. If somebody suggests a method of doing something which they find fun, why on earth shouldn't they suggest it? There could be a chance the other person would find it fun. A topic creator deserves a wide range of advice, not just advice which is efficient. By all means post them your idea of the most efficient way, it may help them, but it also may not as they may find it boring.

 

I'll quote Danq's as a picture-perfect example of the kind of attitude that will stagnate Tip.it as the sole Runescape fansite with hands in research and metagame development.

 

But you don't really show genuine desire to improve things.

 

I assume you're talking about his multiple guides, hundreds of posts in H&A, and all of those topics in GD that've bred legitimate discussion and results? Yeah, he obviously doesn't want to help improve anything. :rolleyes:

 

Love,

Obtaurian, an Efficiency Clown

[mikeg0477]

I look at it this way. If the question is "What's the best way to train woodcutting?", I would want the most efficient method to level woodcutting. But if the question is "Where can I cut Maples the fastest?", I don't want to be told to do something else and then buy maple logs.

[TheAncient]

But you don't really show genuine desire to improve things. Especially that whole Elitism topic you created.

Like where you basically said you were better than everyone else because of the way you played the game.

 

You have a selective memory. The crashing thread was objectively not saying "I am better than you". It explained the motivations behind crashing.

 

And maybe you're taking a blind eye to all of my posts (which, objectively, are many) that seek to improve knowledge in dungeoneering, nex, armor choices, and other aspects of the game.

[All_Is_Great]

 

 

But you don't really show genuine desire to improve things.

 

I assume you're talking about his multiple guides, hundreds of posts in H&A, and all of those topics in GD that've bred legitimate discussion and results? Yeah, he obviously doesn't want to help improve anything. :rolleyes:

 

Love,

Obtaurian, an Efficiency Clown

 

Yah that whole "Elitist view on crashing" bred a GREAT debate eh? Sure helped the community improve when alot of people, including me, came to the conclusion that crashing is a douchey thing to do.

 

And all those calculations about Divines and Elys which probably affected a minority because those are end game items that not everyone has access to.

 

And what guides? "l2Nex"? or that "L2DG" cc he started? Those are some great clan names that don't sound derogatory at all. Because personally, I've only seen "l2" used as a trollphrase between close friends or an insult.

[Lose No Hope]

Would you just let people play how they want? Not everyone's goal is to be the most efficient player.

 

This type of response should be a bannable offence. It is so far removed from the idea of an informational and helpful post that the author must have gone out of his way to annoy frequent H&A posters (which, by the way, happens to be the "efficiency clowns"). There can be no misconceptions about whether this post should be removed. But you know what the worst part is? This is only one post by one user; I'm sure if I had gone through every H&A topic posted today (I typically leave non-combat skill inquiries alone), I would have found five more just like it. That's a problem. It's way too common.

 

When someone creates a thread in H&A, they should get two things: 1) a legitimate answer to their question(s) and 2) alternative suggestions, and both of these things should be based on objective facts unless the author specifies otherwise (and as Green9090 said earlier, this exception is pointless because we cannot tell the OP what the OP thinks is fun).

 

When someone comes along and tries to derail a thread because they feel that posters are attempting to "force" the OP to play Runescape their way, they are essentially impeding the OP by dragging the legitimately helpful posters away from the issue at hand in order to deal with: 1) ridiculous accusations and 2) ridiculous suggestions based on "fun" (an unquantifiable variable).

I agree with this completely. People aren't "forcing" OP to be efficient or play a certain way, they are simply giving the OP the best options and alternatives. When someone comes along deriding the efficient advice, they are the ones trolling and starting the flamefests.

[TheAncient]

Lol you are blind to your hatred of me.

[Obtaurian]

Lol you are blind to your hatred of me.

 

This. A refusal to acknowledge your opponent's contributions pretty much defeats the point of your argument, All_Is_Great.

[All_Is_Great]

If I'm blinded by hatred, it's probably more towards Elitism than say you in specific.

 

But I don't view comparing armour stats "Div vs Ely" or "Dg shields vs Div vs Ely" etc. much help for the community. Just saying.

[green9090]

Lol. You're self-centered, so he doesn't help the community? Cool story, bro.

[Golvellius]

Can't we all just get along?

We are Jagex's premier platinum fansite.

We need to extend the olive branch to each other.

I know in my heart that I have been trying with dilligence to get along with the more difficult people.

I always try to offer them alternatives to their monotonous spreadsheet routine or a bit of humor.

I just want them to experience the joy, wonder, and excitement of playing runescape THE GAME.

[All_Is_Great]

Just my opinion.

[Lose No Hope]

Can't we all just get along?

We are Jagex's premier platinum fansite.

We need to extend the olive branch to each other.

I know in my heart that I have been trying with dilligence to get along with the more difficult people.

I always try to offer them alternatives to their monotonous spreasheet routine or a bit of humor.

I just want them to experience the joy, wonder, and excitement of playing runescape THE GAME.

Is this one of those?

[Pfohlol]

If I'm blinded by hatred, it's probably more towards Elitism than say you in specific.

 

But I don't view comparing armour stats "Div vs Ely" or "Dg shields vs Div vs Ely" etc. much help for the community. Just saying.

As others have said, you are free to ignore advice if you wish. Just because it doesn't apply to what you think of as a majority doesn't mean it isn't helpful. This sort of high end discussion is one of the things that separates TIF from other sites.

[SirIzenhime]

And what guides? "l2Nex"? or that "L2DG" cc he started? Those are some great clan names that don't sound derogatory at all. Because personally, I've only seen "l2" used as a trollphrase between close friends or an insult.

 

 

You mean "nex hunters" and "dgsweepers" (now Dg sweepers)

 

THE GAME.

....... <_<

[Pfohlol]

Double post sorry

[SirIzenhime]

If I'm blinded by hatred, it's probably more towards Elitism than say you in specific.

 

But I don't view comparing armour stats "Div vs Ely" or "Dg shields vs Div vs Ely" etc. much help for the community. Just saying.

 

there really isn't much to discuss in topics like Black D hide vs Karils....is there?

The reason the topics of items like DG shields and spirit shields went out so long, and research was done and presented, is because they're some of the very few items in the game that even need it.

 

You don't need ANY testing to know that barrows is better then dragon. So what's the point of making a topic to inform people of that?

[Levon_]

Just get a slayer helm or black mask and some super attack/strength pots and your ready to go.

Don't throw millions of gp at a skill that makes you money if done properly.

 

Are you saying even at current prayer potion prices, piety is not worth using?

I don't use it.

But can do it however you please, but it seems silly to me to have to go out of your way to make money just to do slayer which for most people is a fun skill that makes money.

 

I think he finds it fun to be inefficient

Nah, I'm giving he my usual horrible advice: Have fun while playing runescape it's not a job. :rolleyes:

 

This. Is efficiency trolling. Purposely posting bad advice. This should be bannable.

[All_Is_Great]

And what guides? "l2Nex"? or that "L2DG" cc he started? Those are some great clan names that don't sound derogatory at all. Because personally, I've only seen "l2" used as a trollphrase between close friends or an insult.

 

 

You mean "nex hunters" and "dgsweepers" (now Dg sweepers)

 

 

Yah. DG sweepers is great, doubt I'll be using it since i've pretty much alienated all the admins :lol:

 

Kinda going offtopic but still I'd like to comment on such statistical threads like "Divine vs Elysian in a PvM setting". Not really helpful considering it doesn't affect a majority of the pop. Not saying it's wrong to make a topic like that though. I just went to read up that thread again, and didn't see it even making 2 pages.

 

But @TheAncient, I'll admit you have created discussion worthy topics, like "Pro DG", but the first couple posts I read, it still emits that same Elitist attitude which makes me go :mellow: Blinded by hatred towards Elitism I am for sure.

[muggiwhplar]

Most of the people in this thread don't know what troll means

Were curt because were tired of dealing with stupidity. Sometimes the opposite side isn't stupid but our annoyance from other arguments carry over

 

Two wrongs don't make a right

[TheAncient]

Most of the people in this thread don't know what troll means

Were curt because were tired of dealing with stupidity. Sometimes the opposite side isn't stupid but our annoyance from other arguments carry over

 

Two wrongs don't make a right

 

Just providing a rationale as to why "efficiency clowns" sound elitist.