The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Veiva]

I am looking forward to it. My only two problems are that GWD armor is not between Barrows and Nex gear and that stats don't have much influence on damage output. I'm hoping very much that Jagex rectifies these two things before release.

[Tim]

But... what about the Beta Mad Scientist outfits?!?

WHEN DO WE GET THOSE? ;___;

[Noctis]

I am looking forward to it. My only two problems are that GWD armor is not between Barrows and Nex gear and that stats don't have much influence on damage output. I'm hoping very much that Jagex rectifies these two things before release.

 

I think I read somewhere that GWD armor WAS at first btwn Barrows and Nex but then people complained that GWD armor was too close to Nex armor. So then they changed it...

 

I have a question. How do Swift Gloves work in EOC? Haven't unlocked it yet so can't try it out myself.

[Platinum_Myr]

The chances are probably fairly low...

 

A ton of people complained because it meant their precious armor was no longer able to be equipped.

 

I really hope they return the armor so that it isn't exactly the same, and also change the equations to at least take into account levels in a somewhat noticeable way..

[Urza285]

I'm still certain beta is doing well and is for the most part ready for release. I feel some aspects aren't mature, but regardless of what is said and done in response things will come. This is how things go with all updates. What ensues later is what matters because as long as there is a consistent resounding voice from the community it will fall on jagex ears.

 

One example of this is ability spamming. I feel the voice on this issue is strong. I feel jagex will allow us to create ability chains which are hopefully 3-5 abilities in length.

[Equenox]

The EoC is ready for release yet in my opinion.

 

While I do believe the EoC is needed in some form, the biggest change that is needed to the EoC as it is to adrenaline generation. Requiring constant input to generate adrenaline, and so maximise effectiveness in combat just isn't working, it makes it challenging to pay attention to other things, including monster drops, familiars, prayer, and chats. In my opinion adrenaline should generate either at a fixed rate per unit time, or through auto-attacks to give the player some time to breathe, while also increasing combat interaction using abilities, which will be able to be used more tactically as you will now be limited by your adrenaline, which in turn requires much more tactical, considered use of abilities based on adrenaline remaining. For example, if I use all my adrenaline trying to KO my opponent and fail, I have none left to defend from a counter attack.

 

As long as the Momentum exists, that is a sign to me that the system is not ready. Allowing players to set evolution aside for 10 minutes is not evolution, rather a quick easy work around that avoids adressing fundamental issues as to WHY this system is not right for this game..

[Alg]

I have a question. How do Swift Gloves work in EOC? Haven't unlocked it yet so can't try it out myself.

They're a level 80 2h crossbow that doesn't require bolts.

 

On the topic of the Dominion Tower, the Indigestion challenge is still considerably harder than it should be. Good to hear that feedback on something that hasn't worked since the beginning of the beta has been taken seriously. :roll:

[Sir_Squab]

I think when someone said "this reeks of executive meddling" they hit the nail on the head. From what I've seen it needs a lot more work.

[Urza285]

I think when someone said "this reeks of executive meddling" they hit the nail on the head. From what I've seen it needs a lot more work.

This isn't the first time someone has said something similar to this. I remember hearing people saying the same thing when rs2 was coming out.

 

Welcome to Whinescape.

[Alg]

This isn't the first time someone has said something similar to this. I remember hearing people saying the same thing when rs2 was coming out.

 

Welcome to Whinescape.

As the person that said "This reeks of executive meddling", I'd like to point out that it actually isn't ready. I played more of the beta over the summer than the live game, and there are bugs, balance issues, and the like that need to be addressed before this thing goes live. A few of them have been around since very early on.

 

I'm not whining when I say that Dragon Slayer is currently impossible without a high level P2P account, I'm saying that there's a pretty serious bug that they haven't addressed at all, and that's far from the only thing that they need to fix.

[Sir_Squab]

People who are invested into something frequently complain about it, that is correct. People invested in a game will often complain about things that don't warrant complaining, or about things that make the game better as a whole but are worse for that particular individual. However, this by no means allows you to dismiss complains on the ground that they are complaints.

 

From what I know of EoC, it honestly isn't ready yet. They said it was coming out in 2013 at one point, suddenly it's like 2 weeks away.

[Saradomin_Mage]

There are still so many issues to address, tons of smaller ones like the complete obsolescence of Berserker (i) (Onyx trumps it statwise every way), the terrible value of GWD amulets (Zilyana boss drop worse than a lolaquanite item), the lack of precise equipment screen information (no statistics giving EXACT armour values versus each style). Not to mention overarching bad design mechanics like the horrific uselessness of combat stats beyond granting abilities.

 

If the EoC was coming out in 2013 there'd still be a chance that they're going to work on sharpening the system for maybe 2 more months ... but at this announcement it feels as if they're going to discard any chance of that.

[IridiumBunny]

It's clear that they're rushing this out before it is ready, and that is what worries me. Once everyone has moved onto EoC, they will have to go crazy with updates and patches to fix all the little bugs that 100k+ players will be finding. And while they're meddling with so many little things, something big is going to fall through the cracks and we will end up with some huge error.

 

IIRC one of bugs that happened early on was certain abilities damaging other players outside of wildy. I'm probably being paranoid, but I won't be carrying anything valuable in my invent for a while.

[Urza285]

There are still so many issues to address, tons of smaller ones like the complete obsolescence of Berserker (i) (Onyx trumps it statwise every way), the terrible value of GWD amulets (Zilyana boss drop worse than a lolaquanite item), the lack of precise equipment screen information (no statistics giving EXACT armour values versus each style). Not to mention overarching bad design mechanics like the horrific uselessness of combat stats beyond granting abilities.

 

If the EoC was coming out in 2013 there'd still be a chance that they're going to work on sharpening the system for maybe 2 more months ... but at this announcement it feels as if they're going to discard any chance of that.

 

This is what I'm talking about. Small issues that will be hammered out later.

[Hedgehog]

There are still so many issues to address, tons of smaller ones like the complete obsolescence of Berserker (i) (Onyx trumps it statwise every way), the terrible value of GWD amulets (Zilyana boss drop worse than a lolaquanite item), the lack of precise equipment screen information (no statistics giving EXACT armour values versus each style). Not to mention overarching bad design mechanics like the horrific uselessness of combat stats beyond granting abilities.

 

If the EoC was coming out in 2013 there'd still be a chance that they're going to work on sharpening the system for maybe 2 more months ... but at this announcement it feels as if they're going to discard any chance of that.

 

This is what I'm talking about. Small issues that will be hammered out later.

It would be silly to release it before those issues are fixed. Some of them aren't even that small.

[Kimberly]

Small issues as a group only remain small in importance if there aren't a lot of them.

[Saradomin_Mage]

There are still so many issues to address, tons of smaller ones like the complete obsolescence of Berserker (i) (Onyx trumps it statwise every way), the terrible value of GWD amulets (Zilyana boss drop worse than a lolaquanite item), the lack of precise equipment screen information (no statistics giving EXACT armour values versus each style). Not to mention overarching bad design mechanics like the horrific uselessness of combat stats beyond granting abilities.

 

If the EoC was coming out in 2013 there'd still be a chance that they're going to work on sharpening the system for maybe 2 more months ... but at this announcement it feels as if they're going to discard any chance of that.

 

This is what I'm talking about. Small issues that will be hammered out later.

Stats being terribly underpowered is not a small issue at all. Strength having zero use past level 81, and Turmoil adding a whooping 7 damage to melee attacks just doesn't work.

[Ren]

I think when someone said "this reeks of executive meddling" they hit the nail on the head. From what I've seen it needs a lot more work.

This isn't the first time someone has said something similar to this. I remember hearing people saying the same thing when rs2 was coming out.

 

Welcome to Whinescape.

Quite positive Rs classic to Rs2 conversion wasn't as heavy of a change as Rs2 to EoC is.. That was a dissapointing comment to read.

 

I second the post by Squab.

[Soa]

For the combat academy thing in Lumby, I completed it and logged off. Yesterday I logged in beta again, IMPORTED MY SAVE, then checked the academy and it was reset. I was thinking that once I completed the academy and it was official on my regular rs account, it would stay there. Do I have to complete it over again and never import the save again?

[strilmus]

Yeah, importing the save will do that.

 

I think to be safe, the day before they grant the bonus, just finish it then, if you are planning to import saves again between these two times.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Oh yeah, on the topic of importing saves, whenever I do that I'm unable to wear my Completionist Cape. For some reason one task in the system gets undone and it's one of those annoying hidden ones :\

[Blutters]

I know it's not finished, but I'm just ready for it to be here already. Combat on both live and beta has felt so pointless knowing the EoC was impending. Maybe when EoC is no longer in beta they'll be quicker to fix all of the small issues that make the game feel so broken on the whole...

[Urza285]

I know it's not finished, but I'm just ready for it to be here already. Combat on both live and beta has felt so pointless knowing the EoC was impending. Maybe when EoC is no longer in beta they'll be quicker to fix all of the small issues that make the game feel so broken on the whole...

This is exactly where I was going with things. You aren't going to see a flawless masterpiece. There's a saying "everyone's a critic" and I'm not going to deny anyone that right or the right to express their opinion. But regardless this piece is coming and for the mod part is finished. It's not this piece of marble block that hasn't been etched or cut once. It's been chipped, grinded and formed. Now, when its brought to live, we begin to polish and smooth things over for future presentation.

[Sir_Squab]

I bloody hope you're right. But I'm not especially optimistic about this.

[Alg]

But regardless this piece is coming and for the mod part is finished.

You don't get it. It isn't finished at all, not by a longshot. Have you honestly played it recently? There are large parts of it that just don't work, and other places are obviously placeholders for things that they haven't even had time to start.

 

Are you seriously arguing that at least one quest being impossible isn't a serious problem?