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Mod MMG on RuneScape Micro-Payments


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Same boat as I'm in. I want all the unlockables, but I'm not folding over hundreds of dollars for it. If microtransactions are added, I feel there should at least be a way for people to get the stuff without buying it

I think they should take a page out of LoL's book and make the solomon/sof stuff available to everyone but through a slower way or after a certain amount of time has passed. Eg. you get points for doing stuff like gaining xp, playing minigames, killing bosses, or whatever. And then you can spend them on what you want. Or after a year has passed, the items become free and everyone can get them. Or after a year has passed they are added to loyalty shop, etc. The current system is way too extreme considering we're already paying monthly. I mean, really.

 

But doesn't the stuff in LoL give actual gameplay advantages? That would probably be why they're also available to non-payers, albeit harder to obtain. Runescape's microtransactions are only cosmetic, and don't affect gameplay, therefore there's no real reason to allow everyone to get them for free.

 

Good point, no reason to only restrict them to payers though. We all pay for membership we should be entitled to everything.

 

No, I think you missed my point.

 

We ARE NOT entitled to getting cosmetic items for free. There's no real reason, they're entirely for show. Let the people who want to pay for them have them.

 

It's only imperative to allow for an alternative free way of obtaining items if said items give some kind of advantage.

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I know, but still with this reassurance we can kinda have hope that the current ceo etc won't do it for a good few years at least.

Well, the current CEO is the same as the one who once said Microtransactions would never be implemented. The same CEO who started a complete removal of all Membership Advertisement in Free to Play. Look at Free to Play today with all the membership ads.

 

which is why this newspost was much more successful than the last one of its kind.

I never compared this newspost to the previous one. If I were to do that, this one would be better yes. Better, but still not satisfactory in my opinion.

 

I think they should take a page out of LoL's book and make the solomon/sof stuff available to everyone but through a slower way or after a certain amount of time has passed. Eg. you get points for doing stuff like gaining xp, playing minigames, killing bosses, or whatever. And then you can spend them on what you want. Or after a year has passed, the items become free and everyone can get them. Or after a year has passed they are added to loyalty shop, etc. The current system is way too extreme considering we're already paying monthly. I mean, really.

Agree with your suggestions. LoL has champions you can both buy through gameplay points (IP) or using Riot Points which you get during promotional periods or through real money purchase. Though the cosmetic skins are only available through riot points, which is the Real Money currency. Thing is you actually need strategy and knowledge to become good at LoL. Runescape EXP just shows you've grinded more than others have. Sure you can powerlevel your way to level 30 in LoL through a ton of buffs costing real money, but you could still easily be beaten by a lower level with better strategies. I feel SGS and to an extent SoF promote a premium membership status to those who pay for all the cosmetic stuff. Simply paying for membership doesn't give access to all content like it used to.

 

Oh, come on. Why do you got to be so negative :/ ?

Certainly there have been broken promises. But at least give them a chance. I don't think they're so incredibly stupid they will actually start selling in-game advantages. Even though they're certainly not far from it now, this post have at least restored some of my faith in Jagex. Let's all hope they keep these promises now. Such a long time player like you, Den, should hope for this. Just as much as myself that too have been around for some years now.

I hope they realize all the damage that has been done. I hope every day. Nothing would make me happier than to see a newspost saying SoF and Solomon's Store will be removed. I have no belief in it ever happening though. They lost my trust the moment they changed their own rules for their own personal gain. That added on with all the deceiving posts trying to justify their actions while never really admitting to what they've done. I'm willing to forgive and forget if they are willing to remove the mistake of adding microtransactions.

 

We ARE NOT entitled to getting cosmetic items for free. There's no real reason, they're entirely for show. Let the people who want to pay for them have them.

I don't understand why there shouldn't be a way of gaining the stuff through investing time instead of money. They've added ways where investing money saves time through SoF, why not the opposite?
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If you were allowed to buy any number of spins, you can get far greater than 200k/hr. I believe based on experience that it is >1m xp/hr spinning if you had infinite spins. (especially with the addition of hotkeys to spam through them faster)

So I'm wrong there, then. Still, even if there wasn't a (higher-than-reasonable) cap on buying spins, you'd still have to find someone who was willing to spend that much. I've got no numbers or facts or any of those other things that people ask for when they hear something they don't like, but I doubt that there are many people that spend hundreds on spins each day.

 

Probably fewer than the amount of people with more than 10 hours per day that they can spend on the game, but that's another kind of real-world advantage entirely :razz: .

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Same boat as I'm in. I want all the unlockables, but I'm not folding over hundreds of dollars for it. If microtransactions are added, I feel there should at least be a way for people to get the stuff without buying it

I think they should take a page out of LoL's book and make the solomon/sof stuff available to everyone but through a slower way or after a certain amount of time has passed. Eg. you get points for doing stuff like gaining xp, playing minigames, killing bosses, or whatever. And then you can spend them on what you want. Or after a year has passed, the items become free and everyone can get them. Or after a year has passed they are added to loyalty shop, etc. The current system is way too extreme considering we're already paying monthly. I mean, really.

 

But doesn't the stuff in LoL give actual gameplay advantages? That would probably be why they're also available to non-payers, albeit harder to obtain. Runescape's microtransactions are only cosmetic, and don't affect gameplay, therefore there's no real reason to allow everyone to get them for free.

 

Good point, no reason to only restrict them to payers though. We all pay for membership we should be entitled to everything.

 

No, I think you missed my point.

 

We ARE NOT entitled to getting cosmetic items for free. There's no real reason, they're entirely for show. Let the people who want to pay for them have them.

 

It's only imperative to allow for an alternative free way of obtaining items if said items give some kind of advantage.

 

This really bothers me. Just because it doesn't affect YOUR gameplay, you assume it doesn't affect anyone elses.

 

There are plenty of fashion players in this game who stand around all day trying to make their character pretty. I personally know a few who only levelled so they could wear certain items to match their outfit. That's why so many cosmetic items like dragon masks, with no real use, command such high prices. Not having access to all the 'fashions' certainly affects their gameplay. Personally I have no problem with cosmetic items for sale if you could obtain them a hard way like Den suggested.

 

Analogous situation: I don't do any PVP, so Jagex could start charging Runecoins to use the wilderness and it wouldn't affect my gameplay, but sure as hell would affect other peoples.

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If you were allowed to buy any number of spins, you can get far greater than 200k/hr. I believe based on experience that it is >1m xp/hr spinning if you had infinite spins. (especially with the addition of hotkeys to spam through them faster)

So I'm wrong there, then. Still, even if there wasn't a (higher-than-reasonable) cap on buying spins, you'd still have to find someone who was willing to spend that much. I've got no numbers or facts or any of those other things that people ask for when they hear something they don't like, but I doubt that there are many people that spend hundreds on spins each day.

 

Probably fewer than the amount of people with more than 10 hours per day that they can spend on the game, but that's another kind of real-world advantage entirely :razz: .

 

Yes, even spending the max per day is ridiculous. And historically, people with more time have always been better at MMOs, but we already accept that as fact so no one complains.

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This really bothers me. Just because it doesn't affect YOUR gameplay, you assume it doesn't affect anyone elses.

 

There are plenty of fashion players in this game who stand around all day trying to make their character pretty. I personally know a few who only levelled so they could wear certain items to match their outfit. That's why so many cosmetic items like dragon masks, with no real use, command such high prices. Not having access to all the 'fashions' certainly affects their gameplay. Personally I have no problem with cosmetic items for sale if you could obtain them a hard way like Den suggested.

 

Analogous situation: I don't do any PVP, so Jagex could start charging Runecoins to use the wilderness and it wouldn't affect my gameplay, but sure as hell would affect other peoples.

 

I would like if you could earn the cosmetics a "hard way", but we aren't entitled to it at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm a hardcore Fashionscaper, but looks=/=gameplay. If it gave an advantage, it would be unfair if it's exclusive, but when it comes to cosmetics, there have been "exclusives" since the dawn of time.

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Maybe we have a different definition of gameplay. I am going by "the way the game is played," and stating that some people, my friends included, don't play much content beyond dressing up to look pretty. Gameplay for them is collecting outfits, wearing them, some even roleplay with them. How is looks not the same as gameplay for them, if their gaming experience does not extend beyond customizing their looks?

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Well, the current CEO is the same as the one who once said Microtransactions would never be implemented. The same CEO who started a complete removal of all Membership Advertisement in Free to Play. Look at Free to Play today with all the membership ads.

 

I don't believe IVP & the Raine Group had as big of an influence on the decisions within Jagex, back then, as they do now. The CEO doesn't really have a choice but to do what the investors want.

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Oh, come on. Why do you got to be so negative :/ ?

Certainly there have been broken promises. But at least give them a chance. I don't think they're so incredibly stupid they will actually start selling in-game advantages. Even though they're certainly not far from it now, this post have at least restored some of my faith in Jagex. Let's all hope they keep these promises now. Such a long time player like you, Den, should hope for this. Just as much as myself that too have been around for some years now.

 

Experience with either a chronic liar or backstabber will temper your faith some. Jagex has promised a lot in the past, and delivered much, much less. I have no reason to take anything they say as gospel or trust that they'll come through until I can verify it with my own two eyes.

 

I do want to speak a bit to the argument about the number of players that partake in the advantages - notably the bank space. That number doesn't matter. What does matter is that they're offering these advantages for cash. This is one of many promises that Jagex has made (and subsequently failed to keep).

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I know, but still with this reassurance we can kinda have hope that the current ceo etc won't do it for a good few years at least.

Well, the current CEO is the same as the one who once said Microtransactions would never be implemented. The same CEO who started a complete removal of all Membership Advertisement in Free to Play. Look at Free to Play today with all the membership ads.

 

which is why this newspost was much more successful than the last one of its kind.

I never compared this newspost to the previous one. If I were to do that, this one would be better yes. Better, but still not satisfactory in my opinion.

 

I think they should take a page out of LoL's book and make the solomon/sof stuff available to everyone but through a slower way or after a certain amount of time has passed. Eg. you get points for doing stuff like gaining xp, playing minigames, killing bosses, or whatever. And then you can spend them on what you want. Or after a year has passed, the items become free and everyone can get them. Or after a year has passed they are added to loyalty shop, etc. The current system is way too extreme considering we're already paying monthly. I mean, really.

Agree with your suggestions. LoL has champions you can both buy through gameplay points (IP) or using Riot Points which you get during promotional periods or through real money purchase. Though the cosmetic skins are only available through riot points, which is the Real Money currency. Thing is you actually need strategy and knowledge to become good at LoL. Runescape EXP just shows you've grinded more than others have. Sure you can powerlevel your way to level 30 in LoL through a ton of buffs costing real money, but you could still easily be beaten by a lower level with better strategies. I feel SGS and to an extent SoF promote a premium membership status to those who pay for all the cosmetic stuff. Simply paying for membership doesn't give access to all content like it used to.

 

Oh, come on. Why do you got to be so negative :/ ?

Certainly there have been broken promises. But at least give them a chance. I don't think they're so incredibly stupid they will actually start selling in-game advantages. Even though they're certainly not far from it now, this post have at least restored some of my faith in Jagex. Let's all hope they keep these promises now. Such a long time player like you, Den, should hope for this. Just as much as myself that too have been around for some years now.

I hope they realize all the damage that has been done. I hope every day. Nothing would make me happier than to see a newspost saying SoF and Solomon's Store will be removed. I have no belief in it ever happening though. They lost my trust the moment they changed their own rules for their own personal gain. That added on with all the deceiving posts trying to justify their actions while never really admitting to what they've done. I'm willing to forgive and forget if they are willing to remove the mistake of adding microtransactions.

 

We ARE NOT entitled to getting cosmetic items for free. There's no real reason, they're entirely for show. Let the people who want to pay for them have them.

I don't understand why there shouldn't be a way of gaining the stuff through investing time instead of money. They've added ways where investing money saves time through SoF, why not the opposite?

Think of it like this... You pay to play the extra content. You also pay to help run the company. Now you can pay for more cosmetics that act as an extra oomph to boost the games progression on top of what the membership costs do.

 

People make and break promises all the time. We are human and succeptable to human conditions. Get the hell over it.

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As a human being we are also able to say no to such behavior and tell the abuser he is wrong and should change that behavior. Murder is something that also happens in this world, that does not mean we should tolerate it when someone of us gets killed on purpose. As costumers we are thus able to show our concerns and tell what feels wrong.

 

On the cosmetics side: I always had the goal to unlock everything in the game, the music tracks, the quests, the achievement diaries, sidequests and outfits. Now once again a dream is shattered, I will never have certain outfits. And why? Because the company demands money for it, instead of letting you get it through playing, without putting in the surrounding lore.

I pay for this game, why should I pay extra for an outfit, when all other outfits were unlocked by gameplay?

 

I understand that they want more money, they are a company, and IVP wants big bucks, but the integrety of the game is in danger and a big part of the community is getting alienated from the game. These are in my opinion things that have severe consequences on the game itself.

They may have doubled the Runescape staff, but we don't see a lot of evidence of it, there's a complete lack of substantial updates, apart from SGS and SOF, sadly. Now in this post there are vague hints at "big" updates coming up, but we have yet to see.

The lack of not mentioning the EoC makes me wonder some stuff too. If they can vagualy hint at other stuff happening somewhere in the future, why not too about the EoC? Has the update been becoming such a monstrosity that plans are changing? Is it becoming the same novelty stuff that was poorly thought out like MA, the Clan Avarts (apart from the exp boost, you can't say it's a good design) and other instant dead content updates? Well, I certainly feel that way about the EoC, just like a certain "vocal minority", maybe IVPex feels a bit the same way? I don't know, I just find it strange.

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The lack of not mentioning the EoC makes me wonder some stuff too. If they can vagualy hint at other stuff happening somewhere in the future, why not too about the EoC? Has the update been becoming such a monstrosity that plans are changing? Is it becoming the same novelty stuff that was poorly thought out like MA, the Clan Avarts (apart from the exp boost, you can't say it's a good design) and other instant dead content updates? Well, I certainly feel that way about the EoC, just like a certain "vocal minority", maybe IVPex feels a bit the same way? I don't know, I just find it strange.

 

I think the lack of EoC might be because it's so close around the corner, and we already know about it. I think MMG wanted us to see the new stuff so that we'd have something fun to discuss rather than continue discussion of something we already have a ton of information on.

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nice to see some reassurance that they do not intend to sell true in-game advantages etc

They also said real life wealth would never affect your gameplay. Look how that turned out.

Oh, come on. Why do you got to be so negative :/ ?

Certainly there have been broken promises. But at least give them a chance. I don't think they're so incredibly stupid they will actually start selling in-game advantages. Even though they're certainly not far from it now, this post have at least restored some of my faith in Jagex. Let's all hope they keep these promises now. Such a long time player like you, Den, should hope for this. Just as much as myself that too have been around for some years now.

 

I'm a tad confused by this bit. "I don't think they're so incredibly stupid they will actually start selling in-game advantages."

 

Really? Did SoF skip your memory, or does 800k/hr agility not count as an ingame advantage in your book?

 

There should have been an "direct" in-between those words there. My meaning was that they won't be so stupid they sell XP/Gold directly.

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I hate when people use such extremist comparisons. We are human beings and we do wrong every day of our lives. If people are going to try so fervently to live politically correct lives then they need to do a couple things. First if they want to try to press that on others they need to stop and look at themselves and see that if they can't get everything right either so why should anyone else be held to those standards? I mean god forbid no one tries because we all do, but give them a break! You live, learn and grow.



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I love the timing of mod mmgs post and the selling of double spins for the same price this weekend.....

 

"we know that directly selling gold, XP..........However, we simply won’t do it"... [bleep] off mod mmg. Someone can pay 200 bucks to get a 99 from lvl 92 in one day this weekend. THIS is why many players continuously lose hope and faith in Jagex.

 

sof is not gambling, we know at this point (thanks to sof buyers) that you will get roughly x exp for x dollars, accounting for the occasional sof changes. "we will not dirrectly sell xp" is a load of bull shit, and mod mmg follows that post up with selling double the spins for the same price (or 50% off spins however you want to look at it).

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Well, the current CEO is the same as the one who once said Microtransactions would never be implemented. The same CEO who started a complete removal of all Membership Advertisement in Free to Play. Look at Free to Play today with all the membership ads.

I don't believe IVP & the Raine Group had as big of an influence on the decisions within Jagex, back then, as they do now. The CEO doesn't really have a choice but to do what the investors want.

I realize they didn't. I was replying to a post about having faith in the current CEO though. The current one is the same one as back then.

 

Think of it like this... You pay to play the extra content. You also pay to help run the company. Now you can pay for more cosmetics that act as an extra oomph to boost the games progression on top of what the membership costs do.

I wouldn't be paying to further the game by buying cosmetics. I would be funding their greed and showing I support their microtransaction shops.

 

My meaning was that they won't be so stupid they sell XP/Gold directly.

They allready sell XP directly, even though they say they don't. SoF Lamps are common enough to be the equivilant of selling XP. At the same time, the SoF makes it impossible for them to sell gold directly. If they did, SoF would be considered gambling and IVPex would have quite a bit of work to do to get around it.

 

I hate when people use such extremist comparisons. We are human beings and we do wrong every day of our lives. If people are going to try so fervently to live politically correct lives then they need to do a couple things. First if they want to try to press that on others they need to stop and look at themselves and see that if they can't get everything right either so why should anyone else be held to those standards? I mean god forbid no one tries because we all do, but give them a break! You live, learn and grow.

Like I said earlier, I'm willing to forgive and forget if they remove SoF and SGS. Those are the only evils that make me push others away from this game before they try it.
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I can't help but think that if they put out the SoF after some updates that lessened the amount of grinding for certain skills, it wouldn't nearly be as hated. I've seen MMOs with microtransactions for actual game content, but here the SoF is the end of the world, since the high scores are the point of the game for a lot of players.

 

Kind of like how we keep saying that they should have saved the effigy fix until after Runespan's release.

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I do wish the two-faced talk about not selling xp, while so much is earned on the SoF should go away. I don't mind cosmetic stuff as much, but the squeel really shouldn't sell spins. Even if I bought max spins every day it is unlikely I would get all the cosmetic gear from the squeel, but I would indeed get several million experience in any set of skills I wanted.... I find that bogus, even if I wanted to just obtain the emotes and cosmetic outfits, I would get a bucket full of xp instead.

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My meaning was that they won't be so stupid they sell XP/Gold directly.

They allready sell XP directly, even though they say they don't. SoF Lamps are common enough to be the equivilant of selling XP. At the same time, the SoF makes it impossible for them to sell gold directly. If they did, SoF would be considered gambling and IVPex would have quite a bit of work to do to get around it.

 

 

I agree with that they do sell xp and gold through the SoF. But they don't do it directly. It is always a chance of winning. Even though I dislike this, it is still not in my opinion a direct way of selling an in-game advantage. Since you actually never is guaranteed X amount of money/xp when you play on the SoF.

However I agree mostly with you: If possible, I would love to see the SoF and SGS removed from the game. But I think you understand that this won't be happening now. Jagex are sticking to this now. The post MMG did still did make me feel more hopeful though. Even if we just get rid of most of the bots that would make RS way better in my opinion.

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Been away for a few days and come back and read this. Makes for very interesting reading and i hope the account guardian works like this: http://forum.tip.it/...escape-concept/

 

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Think of it like this... You pay to play the extra content. You also pay to help run the company. Now you can pay for more cosmetics that act as an extra oomph to boost the games progression on top of what the membership costs do.

I wouldn't be paying to further the game by buying cosmetics. I would be funding their greed and showing I support their microtransaction shops.

Really? What a narrow minded approach to their business practices. I mean honestly what business isn't trying to make more money? If you go for a business degree in any school they'll tell you pretty much the motto for business if that if you aren't making money then you are doing it wrong.



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My meaning was that they won't be so stupid they sell XP/Gold directly.

They allready sell XP directly, even though they say they don't. SoF Lamps are common enough to be the equivilant of selling XP. At the same time, the SoF makes it impossible for them to sell gold directly. If they did, SoF would be considered gambling and IVPex would have quite a bit of work to do to get around it.

 

 

I agree with that they do sell xp and gold through the SoF. But they don't do it directly. It is always a chance of winning. Even though I dislike this, it is still not in my opinion a direct way of selling an in-game advantage. Since you actually never is guaranteed X amount of money/xp when you play on the SoF.

However I agree mostly with you: If possible, I would love to see the SoF and SGS removed from the game. But I think you understand that this won't be happening now. Jagex are sticking to this now. The post MMG did still did make me feel more hopeful though. Even if we just get rid of most of the bots that would make RS way better in my opinion.

I'm still adamant about the SoF being a sale for EXP. Most people seem to buy spins for the EXP, because the EXP rates through SoF Lamps is so much higher than the best methods for most in-game skills.

 

At the start of August, my SoF log showed 1000 Coin wins as 21%, Small Lamps as 19,4%, Medium Lamps as 14% and 5000 Coins as 10%. Any items other than those had less than 5% chance of being obtained.

 

Now at the start of September, my SoF log shows that Small Lamps are 23%, 1000 Coins is 22%, Medium Lamps are 13% and 5000 Coins are at 8%.

 

 

Think of it like this... You pay to play the extra content. You also pay to help run the company. Now you can pay for more cosmetics that act as an extra oomph to boost the games progression on top of what the membership costs do.

I wouldn't be paying to further the game by buying cosmetics. I would be funding their greed and showing I support their microtransaction shops.

Really? What a narrow minded approach to their business practices. I mean honestly what business isn't trying to make more money? If you go for a business degree in any school they'll tell you pretty much the motto for business if that if you aren't making money then you are doing it wrong.

They allready twisted the statement "90% of all players enjoy the SoF". Whats to stop them from doing the same about SGS? I'm not being narrow-minded. I'm learning from past experiences.

 

Sure, it's making them more money now. The question is do you want a happy community who look up to you or a cynical community who have low respect for your company. Not saying everyone has low respect, but many do.

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My meaning was that they won't be so stupid they sell XP/Gold directly.

They allready sell XP directly, even though they say they don't. SoF Lamps are common enough to be the equivilant of selling XP. At the same time, the SoF makes it impossible for them to sell gold directly. If they did, SoF would be considered gambling and IVPex would have quite a bit of work to do to get around it.

 

 

I agree with that they do sell xp and gold through the SoF. But they don't do it directly. It is always a chance of winning. Even though I dislike this, it is still not in my opinion a direct way of selling an in-game advantage. Since you actually never is guaranteed X amount of money/xp when you play on the SoF.

However I agree mostly with you: If possible, I would love to see the SoF and SGS removed from the game. But I think you understand that this won't be happening now. Jagex are sticking to this now. The post MMG did still did make me feel more hopeful though. Even if we just get rid of most of the bots that would make RS way better in my opinion.

I'm still adamant about the SoF being a sale for EXP. Most people seem to buy spins for the EXP, because the EXP rates through SoF Lamps is so much higher than the best methods for most in-game skills.

 

At the start of August, my SoF log showed 1000 Coin wins as 21%, Small Lamps as 19,4%, Medium Lamps as 14% and 5000 Coins as 10%. Any items other than those had less than 5% chance of being obtained.

 

Now at the start of September, my SoF log shows that Small Lamps are 23%, 1000 Coins is 22%, Medium Lamps are 13% and 5000 Coins are at 8%.

 

 

I haven't made statistics of SoF like you, but I would think that your numbers are not too wrong. You have a chance of buying XP through the SoF. But you never have a chance of buying it directly. Because if you spin 50 times and is unlucky you might just end up with a few XP lamps and tons of 1k/5k/cosmetic items. Which is exactly what I said in my original post. Unlikely: Yes. But still it might happen.

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Add me if you so wish: SwreeTak

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