11-Dec-2012 - Player-Owned Ports

[chenw]

Lately I have been getting a lot of past region trade good normal voyages (such as 3, or even 1 trade good), or being forced to choose between Scroll and Trade good special voyage...

 

Most people won't even hesitate, but I am less than 2 complete scrolls away from completing all scrolls (I don't have access to RS right now, but this scroll, if completed, should be 74th scroll), so it was rather painful. I am 9 chi away from SS Hood, either 15 or 21 plates from Tetsu chest and 33 from DL hood, and therefore completing PoP armor collection.

[Artemis1330]

Is there an update I missed that made pop armour better then nex gear, or better then void even? Last I knew it only offered high defense.

[Aiel]

Is there an update I missed that made pop armour better then nex gear, or better then void even? Last I knew it only offered high defense.

anywhere you'd use void, you still use void. Anywhere you'd use nex (tanking nex/kk, dks?), pop armor is only slightly worse.

[Yoko Kurama]

Is there an update I missed that made pop armour better then nex gear, or better then void even? Last I knew it only offered high defense.

anywhere you'd use void, you still use void. Anywhere you'd use nex (tanking nex/kk, dks?), pop armor is only slightly worse.

 

This. Though it's completely unfair that Nex has a bonus while PoP does not, that bonus is quite small. Only the most dogmatic nitpickers would say that PoP is substantially worse. Also, that update next week, despite speculations that it will screw over PoP, has not yet happened. So there's still a chance or two.

[Yoko Kurama]

I still don't understand why people are choosing 5M over what is one of the best armours in the game. At that level, surely you can make 5M easily? If my bank lost 5M, I probably wouldn't even notice it.

because there's basically zero situations (baring an internet outage) where you can loose superior armor?

 

That's quite a likely scenario, the internet outage, or perhaps a server goes down. Also, what about God Wars? Particularly during solos. Since the PoP death value is still messed up, during a solo if you die, it would be somewhat challenging to make it back in time.

[Aiel]

I still don't understand why people are choosing 5M over what is one of the best armours in the game. At that level, surely you can make 5M easily? If my bank lost 5M, I probably wouldn't even notice it.

because there's basically zero situations (baring an internet outage) where you can loose superior armor?

 

That's quite a likely scenario, the internet outage, or perhaps a server goes down. Also, what about God Wars? Particularly during solos. Since the PoP death value is still messed up, during a solo if you die, it would be somewhat challenging to make it back in time.

you shouldn't really die at gwd (except zil(?)) with PoP armor. I'd bet KC won't be required for graves following the instancing update anyway. (Also you can easily make it back to BGWD and AGWD)

[Tansuo]

I still don't understand why people are choosing 5M over what is one of the best armours in the game. At that level, surely you can make 5M easily? If my bank lost 5M, I probably wouldn't even notice it.

because there's basically zero situations (baring an internet outage) where you can loose superior armor?

 

That's quite a likely scenario, the internet outage, or perhaps a server goes down. Also, what about God Wars? Particularly during solos. Since the PoP death value is still messed up, during a solo if you die, it would be somewhat challenging to make it back in time.

you shouldn't really die at gwd (except zil(?)) with PoP armor. I'd bet KC won't be required for graves following the instancing update anyway. (Also you can easily make it back to BGWD and AGWD)

 

Yeah.. owning a set of PoP armour puts you towards the higher end of the player spectrum, so assuming you have Soul Split etc, you really should never die at GWD. "But what if my internet dies?!" I hear you shout. Well PoP armour has such high defence that should you have autoretaliate on, by the time you're back up, your character ought to have hit said boss to death and autologged due to you dc'ing. PoP armour isn't horrifically OP in the game (such as drygores are), but they're still OP enough.

[Urza285]

I've even heard RCB is overpowered... Kind of interested to test it since I just got one a wee ago for the hell of it.

[chenw]

I think people think OP because it is so damn cheap compared to every other T80 weapon available. For less than 1m every 10 hours of combat or so, you have one of the very best ranged weapons in the game. The ammo is a joke, cheapest in like 30 tiers of bolts (all t70 and t75 bolts are at least twice as expensive as royal bolts).

 

And you technically only have to visit QBD once, as once you make the crossbow, you don't have to visit her to maintain it, although it is cheaper to do so.

[Quyneax]

Only the most dogmatic nitpickers would say that PoP is substantially worse.

No, it really is a big difference.

 

Ambler provides the following numbers:

2713 Destroy crit w/o armour

2927 Destroy crit with full torva

3007 Destroy crit with full void

 

For assault, it's 3161/3412/3502.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/299446-q/page__st__2440#entry5392162

 

So yeah, torva is actually really good.

[Carl]

Is there an update I missed that made pop armour better then nex gear, or better then void even? Last I knew it only offered high defense.

anywhere you'd use void, you still use void. Anywhere you'd use nex (tanking nex/kk, dks?), pop armor is only slightly worse.

 

This. Though it's completely unfair that Nex has a bonus while PoP does not, that bonus is quite small. Only the most dogmatic nitpickers would say that PoP is substantially worse. Also, that update next week, despite speculations that it will screw over PoP, has not yet happened. So there's still a chance or two.

 

Eh I suppose it's possible I missed something but where is the news on this update?

 

Sadly I'm still quite a ways away from Superior Tetsu. I've made the legs and have 73 plate, my last 10 plate voyage failed. Going a week at a time without any plate voyages is infuriating.

[chenw]

Only the most dogmatic nitpickers would say that PoP is substantially worse.

No, it really is a big difference.

 

Ambler provides the following numbers:

2713 Destroy crit w/o armour

2927 Destroy crit with full torva

3007 Destroy crit with full void

 

For assault, it's 3161/3412/3502.

 

http://forum.tip.it/...40#entry5392162

 

So yeah, torva is actually really good.

 

Which is 8% boost

 

If buying torva does not make a dent in your bank, possibly, but I am not willing to pay for an armor that is falling in price faster than I can money with it.

 

EDIT: I'll elaborate my own perspective a bit more:

 

RS is not a game where there are bosses that forcibly gear checks your dps (unlike MMOs with raids like WoW, Runes of Magic, and so on), only survivabilty, but the latter is only really an issue if you are the tank. Therefore, there is no real incentive to always get the best dps gear in the game, from mechanics point of view (eg, Void doesn't really let you do anything you couldn't without, you just get it done faster).

 

Second, the 8% damage boost of Nex gear is assuming that you are always in combat, which is clearly not the case. Even for very hardcore combater's, I would assume no more than 75% of the time you are on RS is actually continuous combat (by combat, I mean times where you are actually hitting something, Nex armors do not benefit moving). So the end bonus is something like 6%.

 

The 8% boost, is an AT MOST figure, IE the boost cannot get any higher than this value. Compare that to Drygore weapons (which from damage perspective, is 12.5% boost over chaotics) is an AT LEAST figure, since there is accuracy on Drygore that benefits hit chance.

 

Overall, the price of Nex is, in my opinion, only justified if in that 6% extra time you earn from Nex gear, pays for Nex gear. That is a ALOT of time you need to use the nex gear in order to earn it back. assume a price of 300m for the entire Torva set, and assume one's income rate is 10m per hour without nex (random guess of a bosser's average income), I would need to play for at least 5000 hours of combat time to achieve that, which, realistically, is more like 10000 hours.

 

Of course, this exact argument can be used against PoP armor (since playing PoP itself also eats time), so it's down to personal preference. I much prefer armor that has no ties to the player market.

Edited April 19, 2013 by chenw

[chenw]

It is max of 3 to keep.. So if you already had 3 you can't get more.

yea, as with all rewards; capped on 3, but i have none, and when they show in rewards screen the game doesn't show that I have any more; weird.

 

You are not the only one actually. I just a random today and said I was awarded a Voyage, Adventurer and Rose Tint glass. I am maxed out on glasses, I got the adventurer reroll fine (i used it immediately), but I noticed that I still have 0 voyage reroll. So either those items are lost upon logout, or else it just simply failed to register at all.

[Quyneax]

If you sold Tetsu instead of making superior, your bank would be up 120m (30m per legs, 4 legs for a superior set) permanently. Torva probably doesn't crash 120m more, or not very soon anyway.

[chenw]

Correct Q, what I am about to say would make me sound very much like a hippocrit:

 

When it comes to Minigames like PoP, if it offers things that are exclusive to that minigame, then I aim for that exclusive. Since I have alternative ways to get other non-exclusives items. For PoP, exclusives would be Armors and Scrimshaws, and Non-exclusives would be XP voyages and Cash i get from making the tradeables and then selling them.

 

The thing about that 120M figure is that, yes, Selling it would benefit my bank, it won't allow me to do things I couldn't do, since I don't have enough money, either selling or not, to get Torva armor (I may be able to get 2-3 pieces, but not with the 120m alone). The main difference between me getting a Tetsu and a set of Torva, with the current amount of bank worth, is either I have a set of T85 armor that I can boss with, as well as have money to do other things if I don't feel like combat, or, I can buy Torva and be completely broke (If i sold the Tetsu, I could only still barely afford Torva), and cannot do anything else while I own the Torva. Yes, I could sell it when I am not using it, and buy it back when I want to. After my experience with GE 'borrowing', I have pretty given up juggling gear around my GE and my bank.

[Quyneax]

You are a horse-crit :P?

 

(hypocrite, from Greek ὑποκριτής (actor, hypocrite), versus hippocrit, from a contamination/contraction of ἵππος (horse) and ὑποκριτής)

 

Anyway I agree, if your goal is to get superior Tetsu of course it's the best to get superior Tetsu, and I'd say it's more 'completionist' that way which appeals to me as well, but it'd be wrong to say Tetsu is a 'near-perfect' substitute for Torva. So long as we realize that, it's all fine.

[chenw]

I am not saying it is either. I fully recognise the superiority of Torva over Tetsu (I would be lying if I said i don't want a set of Torva at all, it's just "not at this price" :P)

 

Anyway, back on PoP topic, 74th scroll, sent out for 75th scroll today (freaking painful choosing it over 10 lacquer joint mission lol). Just gathering the jade and slates I need for the last ship and building upgrades... at then....

 

PS. I knew there was something wrong with that hippocrit lol

[Miss Lioness]

To be completely fair, Sup. Tetsu ought to be better then Torva according to Jagex as it is the next set of armor after Torva. However, Torva is still favorable over Tetsu due to the properties that Tetsu haves.

In the current game the difference between Torva and Tetsu isn't really noticeable in the current game. This is because most bosses, GWD and the like, really won't hit much more or higher at Torva then at Tetsu. even though it is an 27.7% increase in armour (Counting in Pneumatic and Steadfast) over Torva. The LP boost however is only 300 more..

 

Personally I would, for now, make Nex gear and PoP gear the same type of armour. This could be either defensive or offensive and when there are more t80/t85 armors are out, then make it Torva offensive and Tetsu defensive.

 

Another solution would be making Torva be T60-T70 in defense while having a similar boost to void when wearing atleast 4 pieces and wearing the whole set would result in a higher boost.

 

Tetsu on the other hand would keep it's current defense while gaining a % defense boost.

This boost could be gained by getting another scroll or make that a way to increase the % defense boost.

* Defense boost as in bringing soaking % back!

 

The soaking % wouldn't really help with current bosses, but could be decisive with newer bosses, where Torva would be smashed without standing a chance!

[Yoko Kurama]

Tetsu legs are 30M now?

 

As for the Tetsu/Torva comparison. I wasn't denying that Torva is better. It is. However, currently, with how watered down most bosses are, Tetsu, along with Drygores, can get the job in a way that isn't substantially worse. (Solos being an exception). It isn't as if the Torva team is saving several minutes over the Tetsu team, or saving lots of food allowing them to get much faster kills and letting them stay longer. That was my point. It's nowhere near how it used to be pre-EoC where Nex was a thousand times better than the nearest alternative. It's still noticeably better, but not where it used to be.

[J35u5_M4]

I am not saying it is either. I fully recognise the superiority of Torva over Tetsu (I would be lying if I said i don't want a set of Torva at all, it's just "not at this price" :P)

 

Anyway, back on PoP topic, 74th scroll, sent out for 75th scroll today (freaking painful choosing it over 10 lacquer joint mission lol). Just gathering the jade and slates I need for the last ship and building upgrades... at then....

 

PS. I knew there was something wrong with that hippocrit lol

 

75 Scrolls !?, I've done PoP ever since it came out and I only have 39 ;_;, how often do you get the voyages? (I've failed like 5+ or something, but nothing close to what you have lol)

[Quyneax]

Tetsu legs are 30M now?

No, but you could've sold for that much each at a point where you could also have had 150+ plate. Early sell prices were higher, you might've been able to get 100m+ for legs at some point.

 

As for the Tetsu/Torva comparison. I wasn't denying that Torva is better. It is. However, currently, with how watered down most bosses are, Tetsu, along with Drygores, can get the job in a way that isn't substantially worse. (Solos being an exception). It isn't as if the Torva team is saving several minutes over the Tetsu team, or saving lots of food allowing them to get much faster kills and letting them stay longer. That was my point. It's nowhere near how it used to be pre-EoC where Nex was a thousand times better than the nearest alternative. It's still noticeably better, but not where it used to be.

I don't consider 8% dps to be a small difference, that's like calling +10 strength bonus a small difference pre-EoC (Bandos + Neit versus plain barrows). You are definitely saving minutes in a Torva team over Tetsu. Not per kill, but then kills are barely minutes long in the first place. Torva is just always better, which it wasn't pre-EoC (due to the degrade cost not being worth it for slayer - currently, Tetsu is of course horrible for slayer and so is Torva plate, with the rest of Torva being literally the only equipment with damage boost in their respective slots (also Virtus of course vs. Seasinger since barraging tasks is good)).

 

In the end, there's really no reason to get two sets of superior armour, simply because the real reason you're getting them is the sake of getting it done. Just like you don't need to get a second Borrowed Power amulet 'just in case'.

[chenw]

I started doing them since practically arc region, so far I only know I skipped 3 and failed 6, so give or take, I missed about 10 scrolls to date.

 

I was averaging 1 scroll mission every 2 days, and add adventurer rerolls on top of that.

 

I never expect I'd get that many scrolls to be honest, as I was saying, I skipped very few of them (I even chose them over trios before, then I decided it was a bad idea, given how hard it is to get trios to come up). As a consequence though, I STILL haven't finished my PoP armors (i still need more than 50 trade good for the complete sets)

[Hedgehog]

You are a horse-crit :P?

 

(hypocrite, from Greek ὑποκριτής (actor, hypocrite), versus hippocrit, from a contamination/contraction of ἵππος (horse) and ὑποκριτής)

 

Anyway I agree, if your goal is to get superior Tetsu of course it's the best to get superior Tetsu, and I'd say it's more 'completionist' that way which appeals to me as well, but it'd be wrong to say Tetsu is a 'near-perfect' substitute for Torva. So long as we realize that, it's all fine.

Hippopotamus means river horse, from ἱπποπόταμος. :]

[Urza285]

Last rocktail soup scroll sent out tonight. I also sent out a 5 plate voyage. If it comes back successful I'll have my tetsu platelegs in the morning.

[Leik]

Got the 50 plate/lacquer voyage again, and it succeeded. :D Now I have ~170 Plates and Lacquer and ~180 Chi globes. Need one more Lotus scroll and 2 Seasinger scrolls and I'll have the full set (Assuming I get the remaining trade goods in that time).

 

Also, what's the best endgame trade goods crew setup? Right now I have 6 combat, 5 morale and seafare, 3 JODs, 2 Merchants, 1 Jade golem, 1 Sea witch and 1 Ox. Actually, that's only 24, so I probably have 1 more morale/seafare. That setup has done just fine for me so far, but I imagine it can be better.