Future Update Discussions

[crysotsu]

Cant wait for that cool spider boss :)

[Urza285]

- Update 14/07/2014

 

The team have been continuing with what was mentioned in the last update; Stu O animating the Kalphite Queen, Labl on the 3D environment for Death's Office, leaving Ana and Asherz on the content side of the pre-release.

 

As previously mentioned the pre-release should be with you in the next few weeks; here is what we'll be putting out:

 

Boss Timers - these are basically stopwatches which you can view during boss fights. They will only appear in instanced fights with a set group size selected, depending on the boss. When the main release comes out you will be able to view your personal best times for each boss.

 

Boss Kill Tracking - this will track your boss kills in the background, but you won't be able to see how many until the main release comes out.

 

Slayer Monster Tracking - the same as boss kill tracking but for a select group of slayer creatures that we were able to fit into the update. More creatures may be able to be tracked later, see our current list in the picture below.

 

For the Completionists out there, and those aiming for it, here are the new requirements that we're looking to add with the main updates release:

 

Completionist - Kill all bosses (excluding hardmodes) to unlock "_ the Reaper" title, which will be lost whenever a new boss comes out. All the current bosses are bullet-pointed in the update made on 19/06/2014 on the first post of this thread.

 

Trimmed Completionist - Unlock all permanent rewards through Boss Slayer. This is a time trial more than anything else, I guess depending on how good you are at bossing will determine how quickly you'll be able to complete this requirement.

 

Note: as kills are tracked with the pre-release, players can work towards the Completionist unlock from that update. Bosses killed before this update will not count towards the achievement. However, we do have existing achievements in-game which will allow us to give players one kill on certain bosses (Barrows & Rots, Fight Caves, Fight Kiln, all GWD, QBD and Vorago including Hardmode) when the pre-release goes live.

 

Finally, we know you like looking at a few pictures so here are some more sneak peeks from the main release:

 

 

Starting to come together really nicely but still a bit off completion, says Labl

 

No kills = #noob

 

 

...and what could this be?

 

 

-

 

The information above is subject to change during development.

 

Mods Ana, Asherz, Ryan, Oliver, Stu O and Labl

[Sy_Accursed]

Can't say I'm overly enthralled with all bosses being adding to normal comp reqs.

 

One of the things they said at launch was it was not gonna be about your talent/skill just simple completionism and bossing arguably entails skill/talent that not everyone is capable of. Plus it seems a odd move since this means Rots and Vorago will effectively be moving from trim to the main cape.

[HunterDexter]

Jej, it was nice having you, comp cape. Goodbye my old friend.

[Sy_Accursed]

My plan to have comp pre-elf city will be out the window if this update is imminent since I'll go from all bar 120 dg to having to actually work out how to boss so I can kill gwd nex vorago kk rots corp and dks etc. Silver lining is I can manage kq, mole, kbd, qbd and normal barrows atleast =/

[Steph]

You can't take any steps forward unless you actually move your feet

[Wkw]

Shoot me a message in the hyt chat and I'll do my best to help you out with barrows and Vorago. I can't say I an terribly good at barrows because I never get to go, but I'm always willing to try

[Sorator]

Blahhh. I was already not looking forward to the bossing that is already required for comp/trim; I'm definitely not looking forward to this in addition to that.

 

Ah well. Not gonna happen soon regardless, so it matters less to me.

[Ambler]

Always thought it was silly that there wasn't more bossing for Completionist Cape, it's a major part of gameplay.

Now if they were to make all the GWD Journals a requirement for Trim... I would be kinda happy.

[Sy_Accursed]

Of course the issue arises that if you have a bad connection or bad reaction times or just aren't that good at bossing among other things suddenly you aren't entitled to be able to earn the completionist cape because of factors mostly beyond your control instead of being a simple measure of completing all content that has a finite complete or incomplete binary too it.

 

For me if they wanna strap this req on it ought to be a trim req and not a normal one. Vorago and Rots were made trim and not plain cape for a reason after all. Not to mention it'd just mark another case of Jagex going back on what they original stated/promised since when the cape launched there was a whole spiel about how bosses were left of as it was about simple completionism not rewarding/punishing people on the basis of optional content that requires certain skill/talent outside of the game on a personal level to be able to do, as well as hardware and internet connection being very real factors in the ability to complete it.

[Saradomin_Mage]

bad reaction times or just aren't that good at bossing among other things

How are these beyond your control?

 

How'd you beat the Jads in the Fight Caves and Kiln?

[Sy_Accursed]

 

bad reaction times or just aren't that good at bossing among other things

How are these beyond your control?

 

How'd you beat the Jads in the Fight Caves and Kiln?

 

Some people just have bad reaction times, some people have fast ones - it's just a fact of nature. Not to mention assorted mental illnesses that can contribute to such matters.

 

Equally lacking an aptitude for something is beyond your control, you can take singing lessons or driving lessons or art classes or sports classes or w/e class you like from now til the day you die - if you lack the aptitude for that particular thing you won't ever get good at it.

 

When it comes to kiln and caves (and quest bosses) admittedly they are still some what boss encounters, but equally they are arguably a lot easier than many of the top end bosses to defeat. One can have enough skill to just about get past such things without having the aptitude necessary for things such as kk, vorago and rots.

[muggiwhplar]

That's not true at all. Unless you have some sort of learning disability (which is rare enough not to be a relevant argument), you can become an expert at anything that doesn't require physical athleticism within about 6-12 months. We live in the information age. Libraries are free and you can Google pretty much any topic you wish to learn more about. "I don't know how to..." is not a valid excuse for being bad at something anymore.

 

In the case of something as simple as RS, you could easily become a world-class PvM master less than a month if you put in the time and effort. It's not like League of Legends where in order to be the best of the best, you have to spend dozens of hours practicing for months and months (because your opponent is another world-class human being, rather than a predictable NPC).

 

I remember back in 2006, a close friend of mine got her fire cape after 50+ (or 100+, I can't remember) attempts. She went from 70-90 range entirely from failed fight caves attempts. Before her first attempt, she was watching my videos and said, "You expect me to be able to do that?! You can't be serious, that's impossible." Sure enough, a few months later...

[Sy_Accursed]

But its not JUST knowledge or practice that can make the difference.

 

How fast your body and mind can process and react to things are fundamental physical/mental limitations regardless of your knowledge.

If you simply lack that speed just because genetics made you that way there is no way to bypass or overcome it.

You either have that aptitude or you do not.

[Urza285]

Honestly it does boil down to reaction times a bit. For example i have times when im just doing qbd like every other day and get caught by the souls and what not. Then i have times when im drinking coffee and im well more aware and on edge dodging souls, kiting the soul shadows, and doing a lot of on the dot movements. Now you cant say "well of course you were drinking coffee." Coffee heightens your alertness and helps you reach higher reaction levels. Thats how some people can get that competitive edge on others.

[Alg]

Worth noting that the biggest opponents of 'twitchy' content in the past were... Older players and those with physical disabilities, who played Scape because it was so low key. They weren't exactly happy about always getting told that they didn't matter. 

 

Honestly, boss content should be something you do because you want to, not something that you do because you have to have to... much like PVP. 

[muggiwhplar]

But its not JUST knowledge or practice that can make the difference.

 

How fast your body and mind can process and react to things are fundamental physical/mental limitations regardless of your knowledge.

If you simply lack that speed just because genetics made you that way there is no way to bypass or overcome it.

You either have that aptitude or you do not.

 

Like I said, you'd have a point if we were playing a game like LoL. But this is RuneScape. There's no excuse for not being able to participate in PvM. Just because it takes you 100 attempts to get a fire cape when other people get it on their 1st attempt doesn't mean that you should make the fight caves easier.

[Sy_Accursed]

Thats great other than nowhere did I say bosses should be made easier in the slightest.

Nor did I say it was bad that it takes learning and practice to get good at bossing.

Plus you entirely disregard the fact it is IMPOSSIBLE to over come the physical and mental limitations of your reaction speeds no matter how much you practice or study the boss. If you do not have sufficient reaction speed thats it, you cannot beat the boss that relies on quick reactions to attacks etc.

 

I simply said they should not be on plain comp cape because limitations beyond your control can prevent people from being able to complete the top end ones in particular. I disagree with them being on there because it is a quite simple fact some people cannot do certain bosses due to factors beyond their control that cannot be overcome by knowledge or practice and I do not think that is something that should be on the plain comp cape. Particularly when that cape is supposed to be about binary complete or not complete and bosses are optional content that do not have a binary complete or not element to them. I am however perfectly ok with them being on the trim cape.

[Saradomin_Mage]

http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1usjdb/how_can_someone_effectively_improve_their/

[muggiwhplar]

Thats great other than nowhere did I say bosses should be made easier in the slightest.

Ok, then if bosses shouldn't be made easier, then what's the issue here?

 

Nor did I say it was bad that it takes learning and practice to get good at bossing.

It was implied; that's just what I inferred from your posts.

 

Plus you entirely disregard the fact it is IMPOSSIBLE to over come the physical and mental limitations of your reaction speeds no matter how much you practice or study the boss. If you do not have sufficient reaction speed thats it, you cannot beat the boss that relies on quick reactions to attacks etc.

Like I said, unless you have a learning disability, which is a rare enough condition not to be worth addressing, then that's simply not true. The bosses in RS are simple enough that even the least skilled of players can eventually become decent at PvM. Anybody who's outraged enough by something like this can choose to channel that outrage into practice and skill, or they can just feel sorry for themselves and ultimately go nowhere.

 

I simply said they should not be on plain comp cape because limitations beyond your control can prevent people from being able to complete the top end ones in particular.

Why not just remove the bosses altogether then? It's unfair that certain people cannot access top PvM moneymaking methods, going by your train of thought.

 

I disagree with them being on there because it is a quite simple fact some people cannot do certain bosses due to factors beyond their control that cannot be overcome by knowledge or practice and I do not think that is something that should be on the plain comp cape. Particularly when that cape is supposed to be about binary complete or not complete and bosses are optional content that do not have a binary complete or not element to them. I am however perfectly ok with them being on the trim cape.

Jagex defines what is and what isn't "optional content," not you.

[muggiwhplar]

http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1usjdb/how_can_someone_effectively_improve_their/

Also: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/15tz93/here_are_a_few_reflexereaction_games_to_improve/

[Alg]

I simply said they should not be on plain comp cape because limitations beyond your control can prevent people from being able to complete the top end ones in particular. I disagree with them being on there because it is a quite simple fact some people cannot do certain bosses due to factors beyond their control that cannot be overcome by knowledge or practice and I do not think that is something that should be on the plain comp cape. Particularly when that cape is supposed to be about binary complete or not complete and bosses are optional content that do not have a binary complete or not element to them. I am however perfectly ok with them being on the trim cape.

Honestly, it doesn't really even make sense to put them on the vanilla comp cape; which has, until recently, been the max cape but with dungeoneering, quests, miniquests, and spells. The trimmed comp cape should be the one that you have to do every extra piece of content for, but if they're going to move requirements from it to the main cape, what's the point of having both?

 

I mean, do they need to make the completionist cape of all things more exclusive for some reason? Wouldn't surprise me considering how many recent updates have had utterly pointless comp requirements that seem to exist solely for the sake of being comp requirements slapped on them.

[Yoko Kurama]

I don't think boss requirements is a bad idea in theory. I am not some sort of uber gamer by any means, I have done just about every boss in RS at some point or another without too much difficulty or headache, and with simply practice and effort. I just think this is going to have negative consequences on other aspects in the game. For one thing, a lot of players will simply pay others to leech kills - which sort of kills the purpose of this requirement. It's supposed to indicate that you have sufficiently engaged and mastered PVM content, not just leeched kills. It will also flood the forums for team grouping with high level skilling compers who are noobs at PVM trying to sneak into good teams to try and get the requirements, it's going to be a lot of trouble, headache for other people. Better to keep comp requirements at songs or whatever or say a few attempts. It just creates a lot of negative externalities for other people.

 

In general, I think the Comp cape should have minimal update requirements (like at the moment, most of the time you just have to unlock a new song or do a bit of stuff). Then trim cape should have the requirement of having engaged with the content seriously, like 25-50% of it. The other 50% of it should be up to players, and be left to their choice as to whether they want to do it or not. At the moment, the trim cape is far too often a crutch for Jagex to buttress poorly thought-out updates by forcing people who are desperate and committed to a certain prestige item, by forcing them to do it.

[muggiwhplar]

That's another point... How exactly can you call yourself a "completionist" if you haven't even killed every boss >_>

 

Of all the things in RS that could be scrapped or nerfed in order to cater to the "less fortunate" players, the completionist cape should be the last on the list to be dumbed-down. What's the point of having a completionist cape if we're just going to follow the "everyone's a winner!" mentality?

[Yoko Kurama]

That's another point... How exactly can you call yourself a "completionist" if you haven't even killed every boss >_>

 

Of all the things in RS that could be scrapped or nerfed in order to cater to the "less fortunate" players, the completionist cape should be the last on the list to be dumbed-down. What's the point of having a completionist cape if we're just going to follow the "everyone's a winner!" mentality?

 

The comp cape has always been this way. Keep in mind that adding PVM requirements is a very recent idea. The comp cape has been around for years, and has yet to have Nex, God Wars, DKS, KK, KQ, QBD, KBD, Giant Mole, TDS, or Vorago requirements. Up until now, a lot of the times, when new bosses were released, the comp cape requirement only went as far as saying "go, unlock song".