[magmaguard3]

Nachalo



It's a good idea. It would solve the rare problem IMO but again with inflation, I don't know if jagex would make a risk with the economy and the shape its in as it is. I think if they thought about it and tweaked it a little it could turn into a good update.





Konets

[Geekguy]

qeltar said:

Jard_Y_Dooku said:

I've already explained why it's a problem: it was never intended to be this way.

Most complex systems have emergent portions that end up quite different than planned. That it was never intended to be the way it is doesn't mean it's a problem.



Fail. Party hats were never complex to begin with.

Jard_Y_Dooku said:

Secondly I feel that discontinuing items but allowing some players to keep them - for any reason - shows a broken system. Either make the items constantly available, or delete them entirely.

That's pure circular reasoning: "rare discontinued items are a problem because it's a problem having rare discontinued items".



No, Fail.



Personally, I think rares are silly, and the people who waste months fawning over and grinding to get them are foolish. But it's certainly not hurting anyone if that's how they want to spend their time.



Fail.



Face it: you have NO valid justification for wanting to get rid of tradeable rare discontinued items other than that you don't like them by definition. I don't like them either, but any claim that they represent a significant problem in the game is completely without merit. And it's easily arguable that your "solutions" would be far worse than the status quo.

Also fail.



Take your failw it you somnewhere else.

[blackrazor]

olahcan (it looks better backwards)



I guess all rares could be made untradable, although I don't see the problem with the way things are currently. Wild & free market were removed by Jagex over RWT, which was causing credit-card chargebacks & penalties to Jagex (from paid accounts made with fraudulant cards) that was threatening to ruin the entire business model for Jagex. So it was kill RWT at any cost or risk closing down Runescape entirely. You certainly cannot make the same argument for rares in this current GE controlled market.



As for deleting rares and replacing them with market value gold, that only benefits the merchants. Those players who bought or earned a rare to hold it for sentimental reasons as part of their collections will be hurt, and for little real gain by the community. A gold influx would affect prices of other items, too (as already mentioned). Also mentioned before (and I agree), not all players mind seeing rares on players other than their own. Some recognize that it is a method to acknowledge time spent in the game, actually being present for the past events (for the untradables, anyways).



I particularly disliked your pumpkin idea: that they would be deleted and could be repicked by players with a certain level in farming skill. I've been a f2p for life, even before the paid service was introduced. Why should players such as I lose our pumpkins with no way to regain them ourselves? Seems like replacing one form of scarcity with another. Me personally, I would rather things stay as they are now regarding rares. It's one of the only things left of real value in the game, that a free player can have, if he was there back far enough. Even the shiniest new member who wasn't there when bunny ears were given out, can't get one now. It's the very last aspect of the game where: TIME >> $$. Please don't suggest to take that away.



The only change I would support is a move to make the current tradables into untradables, with a proper warning period that would allow them to move out of the hands of merchants, and into the hands of true collectors and party-goers. At least no new gold would be created, and well, merchanting has its risks, right? That's my two cents.

[WoodenFruit]

Deleting rares and replacing them with money? No.



I think partyhats are more of a status symbol than Godswords, because phats are just there for looks, whilst Godswords are there for looks and for purpose...



...I like rares

[tedbundty]

Nachalo

Exchanging them for money would obviously have detrimental effects on the economy, as other people have mentioned.

It wouldn't be fair to the people who paid hundreds of millions to get rares if now everybody could get them for free.

That said, if nothing is done about rares the problem will get greater and greater and their prices will go up and up (as we've seen over this past year). One specific problem is that, because rares are worth more than their market price on GE, RWT could occur (and I'm sure already is) - people who have rares could sell them to people through trade at market price and require real money as payment.

The only real solution I see (and I wouldn't be surprised if Jagex did it soon, seeing how out of hand rares are getting and the RWT problem) is to make all the rares untradeable and make it so no more can be obtaned. The people who bought them at high prices would be content because they would get what they paid for and their rares would still keep their sentimental value.

Konets

[Dragonlordjl]

Contrary to popular belief, people don't buy rares for their looks. They buy them because they have a continuous upward trend. They will only EVER go up long-term. How would removing billions of GP from the economy (which are currently wrapped up in rares) help? If they made rares untradeable, many people would lose the shirts off their backs and there would be mass rioting like nothing we've ever seen except the 12/10 updates.

[Morionic]

We'd lose a good number of players, and there would be alot of rioting, but things would eventually go back to normal.
only reason jagex hasn't done this is because there is nothing to gain from doing so.

[Lizard_X123]

Mmmm, year old necromancy. Love it!

nachalo

Well, since the topic is up here, I'll throw my idea into the mix.

The point was brought up that much of the value in the current rare market is hoarding wealth. Since there is a GP limit, players often store further value in the form of items. So, why not turn all current tradeable rares into stackable "Trading Cards", which act just like any other item, with a fluctuating market value, only they have no aesthetic value. You can't show them off (beyond, of course, opening a trade window with people and throwing up hundreds of Blue P'hat Cards just to show off), but they retain their value as extra wealth. They could have very low shop values, so that you can't just take them and sell them for instant GP (to prevent flooding the market with currency).

With that said, it would be a great opportunity for Jagex to introduce additional currency in the form of stackable notes, each with a set value (say, 50k, 100k, 250k, 500k, 1m) which have a set market and shop value, and can be "sold" to/"bought" from a bank for the equivalent value in GP, so that you can take your wealth above the 1.2B limit that way as well.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that I've been playing RS for a lot longer than a lot of the TIF community. I was around for ALL the holiday drops (though I foolishly gave all but a single Santa away when I left the game), I was there when the Disc of Returning had a purpose, blahblahnostalgiablahblah. I took an extended break up until last year, and so missed out on most of the untradeable holiday items. And honestly? I don't care. Now that we have Diango, I don't think I have any of my untradeable holiday items physically on my account right now. I just don't wear them, nor have any desire to unless I have some explicit reason to. But I recognize that some people do want them to wear around, as they enjoy wearing them. I don't think they should exist as symbols of how long you've been playing (personally, this is another thing I could care less about. If Jagex added a feature to perhaps the adventurer's log that displayed when your account was created, I wouldn't object).

TL;DR version:
-Take all current tradeable rares and turn them into stackable "trading cards" with a dynamic market price, but very low shop value. Monetarily, they would serve the same purpose as rares do now, without causing an instant flooding of the market with GP. Essentially, what was once wearable, no longer is, but it retains all other value.
-Optionally, create a new series of stackable items that are tradeable, and have a static market and shop value, to act as a way to store excess wealth
-Create duplicates of all current tradeable rares, as untradeable items that can be retrieved from Diango or other methods as mentioned in the OP

konets

[Ring_World]

Well your argument is kind of unfair, your saying to delete them and give the holders of rares nothing in return.

How is this fair, say i decided to start saving up money for a party hat because i want the most expensive item in the game. I spend 2 years saving up enough money for it and i finally get it, then BAM jagex decided to delete it.

This is for the greater good? My [wagon], its just because noobs like you didnt want to work for one and complain about not having one.


Edit: nvm i thought i say you put that you didnt think owners should get reimbursed, i still dont support because i think this game NEEDS elite items as its permanently part of this game. I would support them giving out SIMILAR items, but i dont want total copies to be handed out

[Guydabest]

nachalo

nah. I like it how there are rares like scythes, bunny ears and christmas crackers. If you have any of these items, it shows you've been playing for a while. A 'reward' if you like. People will get over it, but I know I would be very unhappy about it.

[Gradeskip93]

nachalo

I support

konets

[Studio1417]

nachalo

Jagex already has alternatives...

-Pumpkin/Egg: Any Piece of food
-Party Hat: Royal Crown
-Halloween Mask: Animal masks
-Santa Hat: Fez
-Bunny Ears: Squirrel Ears
-Scythe: Halberd/Spear/Hasta (close enough)
-Yo-Yo: Eek

I have the following rewards...
-Rubber Chicken: Easter Carrot
-Zombie Head: Eek again
-Bobble Hats: Any generic RS hat
-Marionettes: Toy Kite (close enough)
-Easter Ring: Ring of Stone
-Skeletal Clothing/Pumpkin/Reindeer hat: I don't remember the last time I saw anyone wear these anyway so don't ask for them
-Wintumber Tree: Other trees in your house
-Chicken Costume: Again, no one wears this anyway
-Grim Reaper's Hood: Arhim's Hood, Slayer Hood, Void Mage
-Snow Globe: Snowballs are available for every future Christmas event
-Any Reward from 2008: Garbage rewards. You can still obtain the useless Cornucopia btw.
-Easter Carrot: Your second shot at Rubber Chicken!
-Web Cloak: Your obsidian cape should suffice just fine...
-Eek: Your second chance at Yo-Yo AND Zombie Head!
-Christmas Robes: Desert robes + Quest Cape Hood
-Candy Cane: Black/Addy/Rune Cane
-Squirrel Ears: Your second shot at Bunny Ears

konets

[bladewing]

Have fun when divine spirit shields are worth 50b.

[Greenteaqq]

This is a silly idea.







also nachalokonets

[IIOxII]

Jard_Y_Dooku, on 14 February 2009 - 07:26 PM, said:

Type "nachalo" at the top of your post to assure me you've actually read it. And please don't reply unless you have a GOOD argument against my idea. Now, here it is.




If I had my way, players wouldn't even get ANYTHING for their rares. I'd delete them and not give them any coins, because they shouldn't have had that value in the first place. But it would probably cause a lot of economic damage due to their high value and demand, so giving players coins back is unfortunately looking like the best possible solution.



And again, if you actually read my post, add "konets" to the end of your reply. Thanks.

Why would that be a good idea? Wouldn't a player who had worked years to save up for a blue partyhat, and sold all of his items to be able to afford one, become enraged when his entire bank was wiped? That would be like wiping the bottom 50,000 people with 99 cooking's stats to make the cooking cape what it once used to be, a signal of 'skill.'

Perhaps to counter the inflation that would occur from the addition of billions of gp into the game, Jagex could also plop a few whips, coal, bandos, herbs, furies, or whatever people with rares would buy onto the g.e. (not a perfect idea, but it's better than wiping someone's bank)

Maybe it's a good thing you didn't get your way?

[Omali]

Lizard_X123, on 19 May 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

TL;DR version:
-Take all current tradeable rares and turn them into stackable "trading cards" with a dynamic market price, but very low shop value. Monetarily, they would serve the same purpose as rares do now, without causing an instant flooding of the market with GP. Essentially, what was once wearable, no longer is, but it retains all other value.
-Optionally, create a new series of stackable items that are tradeable, and have a static market and shop value, to act as a way to store excess wealth
-Create duplicates of all current tradeable rares, as untradeable items that can be retrieved from Diango or other methods as mentioned in the OP

konets

1. You can't take items out of an economy and expect people to use your presented alternative. That approach never works.
2. That isn't a bad idea.
3. No.

[Lizard_X123]

Omali, on 20 May 2010 - 01:06 AM, said:

Lizard_X123, on 19 May 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

TL;DR version:
-Take all current tradeable rares and turn them into stackable "trading cards" with a dynamic market price, but very low shop value. Monetarily, they would serve the same purpose as rares do now, without causing an instant flooding of the market with GP. Essentially, what was once wearable, no longer is, but it retains all other value.
-Optionally, create a new series of stackable items that are tradeable, and have a static market and shop value, to act as a way to store excess wealth
-Create duplicates of all current tradeable rares, as untradeable items that can be retrieved from Diango or other methods as mentioned in the OP

konets

1. You can't take items out of an economy and expect people to use your presented alternative. That approach never works.
2. That isn't a bad idea.
3. No.

Numbers 1 and 3 are effectively intertwined, and go off of the already stated idea that Jagex intended for holiday items to be fun, and not the economical disasters that they are today. I have to agree with the OP (and many before him, I'm sure) that the only way to return to that idea is to make all current tradeable rares nontradeable, and acquirable from Diego. To prevent mass riots, the current tradeable items would, under my suggestions, retain their entire street value, albeit in an unwearable form.

Do you really think that the people who are hoarding Santa's (or other wearable rares) are doing so because they want to physically show off their wealth? Seeing as you can only wear one at a time, I doubt it. Now, sure, maybe they like the look and wear one of them to show off some of their wealth. By transforming all current tradeable rares into tradeable "card" versions of themselves, you allow for everyone who wants to have one of these fun items to have one and wear it if they desire, without removing the high street value and wealth that players have been amassing over the years. Sure, those with phats and masks and santas wouldn't be able to dangle them in front of those not quite as well off as themselves, but that was never the original intent of the items anyway, and so should not be a reason to keep wearable versions from being available to the masses, IMHO.

[triquos]

I say no. It's fine the way it is.

[Lizard_X123]

triquos, on 20 May 2010 - 02:14 AM, said:

I say no. It's fine the way it is.

Objectively, I would agree with you, triquos. I don't care much for rares (I don't spend that much time lounging around or in any capacity to be wearing a rare anyway). To me, rares are merely serve as an alternative currency. However, since the topic is alive again here, I don't see the harm in discussing/debating possible solutions*.

* I say solutions because of the quote seen in the OP regarding Jagex's original intentions for the items. Please, don't try to argue that there isn't a problem, as I think this topic is approaching the problem that Jagex perceives, not that the community as a whole sees.

[tortilliachp]

Lizard_X123, on 20 May 2010 - 03:27 AM, said:

triquos, on 20 May 2010 - 02:14 AM, said:

I say no. It's fine the way it is.

Objectively, I would agree with you, triquos. I don't care much for rares (I don't spend that much time lounging around or in any capacity to be wearing a rare anyway). To me, rares are merely serve as an alternative currency. However, since the topic is alive again here, I don't see the harm in discussing/debating possible solutions*.

* I say solutions because of the quote seen in the OP regarding Jagex's original intentions for the items. Please, don't try to argue that there isn't a problem, as I think this topic is approaching the problem that Jagex perceives, not that the community as a whole sees.

no. the "community" (read: rare haters) are perceiving a problem where Jagex have recognized that what they in the past would call the "mistake" of retired items fills a niche they otherwise wouldn't fulfill. I haven't seen anyone at Jagex advocate the need for a change, other than when the items were released (which is obviously now too late).

there is no problem.