Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[Saru Inc]

Because he's your boss and will beat your ass if you don't?

Get a new boss then...

 

 

heh. And if you can't?

 

 

I'm not saying I think God is a mean ass boss, but I don't see the logic in people simply "ignoring" he's there because they don't like them. Because that implies they knew he existed, but then decided he wasn't good enough for them. That's fine. But that doesn't make him... *not* exist.

[Giordano]

It makes him not exist for not showing his face these here parts.

 

He's a big yellow belly.

[meol]

Because he's your boss and will beat your ass if you don't?

Get a new boss then...

 

heh. And if you can't?

 

I'm not saying I think God is a mean ass boss, but I don't see the logic in people simply "ignoring" he's there because they don't like them. Because that implies they knew he existed, but then decided he wasn't good enough for them. That's fine. But that doesn't make him... *not* exist.

I know what you are saying, but it's that I can hardly believe such a childish God exists in the first place, not that I think he exists but I choose to ignore him (though I can't speak for the others).

[Greg295]

Because he's your boss and will beat your ass if you don't?

Get a new boss then...

 

heh. And if you can't?

 

I'm not saying I think God is a mean ass boss, but I don't see the logic in people simply "ignoring" he's there because they don't like them. Because that implies they knew he existed, but then decided he wasn't good enough for them. That's fine. But that doesn't make him... *not* exist.

I know what you are saying, but it's that I can hardly believe such a childish God exists in the first place, not that I think he exists but I choose to ignore him (though I can't speak for the others).

 

Meol is right on this one, if god existed he wouldn't hate homosexuals, but since he does, he doesn't exist.

 

Because he's your boss and will beat your ass if you don't?

 

I don't know you, but saying this makes me think that you follow god for the fear of if he is real, when you die you will be sent to hell for not obeying him. I may be completely wrong and forgive me if i am, but shouldn't this make you resent god? This form of controlling people (fear) is how dictators rule country's, and nobody likes them. I wont live my life by a set of rules laid down 2,000 years ago by a supernatural being who all proof for in my opinion has been better explained by science.

 

Note - I am 100% straight, I just think this is an interesting topic to talk about.

[Saru Inc]

Ummm wrong. I guess that is the best response I can come up with. Since A, no one ever said anywhere that God hates gays. No one says that, not even my mom, and she goes to anti gay rallies for Christ's sake. (get it)

 

 

Also, again, WHY DOES THE FACT THAT HE IS MEAN DETERMINE HIS EXISTENCE?

[Giordano]

Also, again, WHY DOES THE FACT THAT HE IS MEAN DETERMINE HIS EXISTENCE?

Well they're trying to say if God is a nice person he would love gays but according to some people God is a very mean little man who hates gays.

[obfuscator]

And according to the teaching of many different religions God loves everyone; that doesn't mean he loves what they do.

 

I think it's terribly hypocritical of the religious to say God hates gays, I certainly don't believe that's the case.

[Saru Inc]

Well, thats the thing. If God is to hate gays, he would hate the fact that they rebel against him sexually. But he never hates THEM, per se.

 

 

And I do know some people who say God is a mean God, but since he says he's loving he cancels himself out. Not the case...

[Bows]

Well, thats the thing. If God is to hate gays, he would hate the fact that they rebel against him sexually. But he never hates THEM, per se.

 

 

And I do know some people who say God is a mean God, but since he says he's loving he cancels himself out. Not the case...

I am so confused. None of that made sense to me.

[Saru Inc]

Love the sinner hate the sin.

[Bows]

Love the sinner hate the sin.

Yeah that's how I feel about you. I love you, you sin. And hate you, you sin.

[Powman3]

I haven't skimmed through the thread so part of what I'm posting is speculation at most.

 

For those who through out the "God hates gays" argument... If "God" hated gays, wouldn't have he had dealt with them?

 

And I believe that homosexuality is just fine. No skin off my back. They can marry and adopt, and that's all good by me.

[meol]

Ummm wrong. I guess that is the best response I can come up with. Since A, no one ever said anywhere that God hates gays. No one says that, not even my mom, and she goes to anti gay rallies for Christ's sake. (get it)

 

 

Also, again, WHY DOES THE FACT THAT HE IS MEAN DETERMINE HIS EXISTENCE?

Premise: God, if she exists, being an omnipotent creator, must be loving and caring, possibly beyond human comprehension.

God chooses to create gay humans, and -according to some religions- then sends them to an everlasting, infinitely cruel punishment without the possibility of parole or redemption for acting on those desires -something as simple as having sex. Clearly not merciful or loving, even by human standards.

Accepting the premise, it follows that no such God exists -some dogma of the religions must be wrong.

 

It is not an entirely logical reasoning and it's certainly incomplete, and it only speaks against conservative versions of Christianity (and Islam and Judaism), but that's more or less the argument.

 

And I'd personally say that forcing someone to choose between unwillingly being celibate for your whole life and facing eternal punishment is not "loving the sinner".

[Saru Inc]

Ummm wrong. I guess that is the best response I can come up with. Since A, no one ever said anywhere that God hates gays. No one says that, not even my mom, and she goes to anti gay rallies for Christ's sake. (get it)

 

 

Also, again, WHY DOES THE FACT THAT HE IS MEAN DETERMINE HIS EXISTENCE?

Premise: God, if she exists, being an omnipotent creator, must be loving and caring, possibly beyond human comprehension.

God chooses to create gay humans, and -according to some religions- then sends them to an everlasting, infinitely cruel punishment without the possibility of parole or redemption for acting on those desires -something as simple as having sex. Clearly not merciful or loving, even by human standards.

Accepting the premise, it follows that no such God exists -some dogma of the religions must be wrong.

 

It is not an entirely logical reasoning and it's certainly incomplete, and it only speaks against conservative versions of Christianity (and Islam and Judaism), but that's more or less the argument.

 

And I'd personally say that forcing someone to choose between unwillingly being celibate for your whole life and facing eternal punishment is not "loving the sinner".

 

 

I believe you are correct. However, going by Christian (I can't speak for Jews/Muslims) text, while he is a loving God, he is also just. While I don't think that applies to this situation, he's not bound to the same morals us humans are.

[obfuscator]

Ummm wrong. I guess that is the best response I can come up with. Since A, no one ever said anywhere that God hates gays. No one says that, not even my mom, and she goes to anti gay rallies for Christ's sake. (get it)

 

 

Also, again, WHY DOES THE FACT THAT HE IS MEAN DETERMINE HIS EXISTENCE?

Premise: God, if she exists, being an omnipotent creator, must be loving and caring, possibly beyond human comprehension.

God chooses to create gay humans, and -according to some religions- then sends them to an everlasting, infinitely cruel punishment without the possibility of parole or redemption for acting on those desires -something as simple as having sex. Clearly not merciful or loving, even by human standards.

Accepting the premise, it follows that no such God exists -some dogma of the religions must be wrong.

 

It is not an entirely logical reasoning and it's certainly incomplete, and it only speaks against conservative versions of Christianity (and Islam and Judaism), but that's more or less the argument.

 

And I'd personally say that forcing someone to choose between unwillingly being celibate for your whole life and facing eternal punishment is not "loving the sinner".

 

 

This argument is illogical because if God choses to create gay humans, he also chose to create violent humans, racist humans, angry humans, mentally challenged humans, etc.

 

The fact is that all of us have something we must overcome, something that gives us difficulty. In that manner (according to catholics anyway) homosexual tendencies are something to be triumphed over.

[Saru Inc]

That's what my sister says as well, ( though thankfully she has drastically changed her views about homos over the last week :)))))) ) she said to me at first "well I was born with an attitude problem, but I've overcome that, you can too. Homosexuality is just a different kind of issue, because we live in a such a dichotomous society where we are either sexually repressed, or sexually crazed, we don't know how to say it's wrong.

 

 

But now she's more along the lines of "oh I mean... I know Christians who were gay and stayed gay, and I know Christians who were gay, and became straight, so I don't think I could tell you what's right and whats wrong in this regard. " However she did say she'd never marry a homophobe, and she most certainly would want to make sure her potential husband is ok with me being gay, and if he's not she's willing to break up with him. So I'm getting some mad mixed messages.

[meol]

This argument is illogical because if God choses to create gay humans, he also chose to create violent humans, racist humans, angry humans, mentally challenged humans, etc.

 

The fact is that all of us have something we must overcome, something that gives us difficulty. In that manner (according to catholics anyway) homosexual tendencies are something to be triumphed over.

First, that also means God created humans he knew wouldn't be able or willing to overcome it, and would then not only punish them, but mercilessly and eternally. That's actually one of the main reasons I left Catholicism. Then, everything you said somehow presupposes homosexuality is inherently evil, a burden that must be overcome. But in the end you are right, that isn't per se a sound argument. I'm just explaining the point of view "the God you present to me is cruel, therefore he doesn't exist".

[obfuscator]

 

First, that also means God created humans he knew wouldn't be able or willing to overcome it, and would then not only punish them, but mercilessly and eternally. That's actually one of the main reasons I left Catholicism. Then, everything you said somehow presupposes homosexuality is inherently evil, a burden that must be overcome. But in the end you are right, that isn't per se a sound argument. I'm just explaining the point of view "the God you present to me is cruel, therefore he doesn't exist".

 

That's correct, and the "homosexuality is evil" argument is one I've gotten into before but have no desire to get into now.

 

However, your argument presupposes that humans are always incapable of overcoming their animalistic tendencies, when in fact we overcome these every day, both severe and otherwise.

[Dupin]

That's what my sister says as well, ( though thankfully she has drastically changed her views about homos over the last week :)))))) ) she said to me at first "well I was born with an attitude problem, but I've overcome that, you can too. Homosexuality is just a different kind of issue, because we live in a such a dichotomous society where we are either sexually repressed, or sexually crazed, we don't know how to say it's wrong.

 

 

But now she's more along the lines of "oh I mean... I know Christians who were gay and stayed gay, and I know Christians who were gay, and became straight, so I don't think I could tell you what's right and whats wrong in this regard. " However she did say she'd never marry a homophobe, and she most certainly would want to make sure her potential husband is ok with me being gay, and if he's not she's willing to break up with him. So I'm getting some mad mixed messages.

It's great that she's come this far after the way she reacted when you first came out. Even if she is lying or unsure, she cares enough about you to tell you what you want to hear. I guess all fundamentalists need a gay brother.

 

However, your argument presupposes that humans are always incapable of overcoming their animalistic tendencies, when in fact we overcome these every day, both severe and otherwise.

I agree with the general statement, but it's a proven fact that homosexuality cannot be "overcome".

[Zierro]

Homosexuality itself cannot be overcome, but the act of it can. In that regard, it is the same as having a desire to steal and murder and rape, but not acting upon it. The thing that doesn't make logical sense to me though is why homosexuality is considered a sin or immoral in the first place. Strange? Maybe. Immoral? How so when it causes no harm? This only supports the theory that people use religion as a tool for power.

[obfuscator]

Homosexuality itself cannot be overcome, but the act of it can. In that regard, it is the same as having a desire to steal and murder and rape, but not acting upon it. The thing that doesn't make logical sense to me though is why homosexuality is considered a sin or immoral in the first place. Strange? Maybe. Immoral? How so when it causes no harm? This only supports the theory that people use religion as a tool for power.

This. I know it's impossible to change the way you feel, but actions are 100% controllable.

 

All I'm attempting to prove by this argument is that God giving us strife doesn't make him inherently evil or hateful.

[Skeptical]

The moral of this story is that people will believe anything if a book and their elders tell them it's true.

 

Once more, religion is the root of evil.

[The_Gabe]

 

Once more, religion is the root of evil.

 

I dissagree, most civil religions are just a guideline for life. The people who try to interpret messages that are not there are the root of evil.

[Zygimantas]

So... anyone here think that homosexuality is wrong?

[Saru Inc]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101012/ap_on_re_us/us_gays_in_military