Obsidian (Zerker) Necklace: What Happened to it?

[Celt23]

I went and bought an obsidian necklace and sword after reading this; I will try it. :

[baalboy5]

I went and bought an obsidian necklace and sword after reading this; I will try it. :

 

same. I noticed alot of inaccurate hits but high nonetheless.

[g616s]

Deathsnear, your analysis is good, but you've got some of your numbers wrong or mixed up.

 

 

 

With that equipment and stats, the correct numbers would be:

 

 

 

Obby Dagger, Berserker Necklace: +39 stab +70 slash +78 strength +183 stab +202 slash +182 crush +147 range 25 max

 

Obby Sword, Berserker Necklace: +70 stab +60 slash +88 strength +185 stab +205 slash +182 crush +147 range 27 max

 

Obby Mace, Berserker Necklace: +83 crush +95 strength +183 stab +202 slash +182 crush +147 range 28 max

 

Abyssal Whip, Amulet of Glory: +124 slash +120 strength +206 stab +225 slash +205 crush +170 ranged 27 max

 

 

 

(the max hits *do* include the effect of the Berzerker Necklace, and this was done in a non-Agressive attack mode for comparison purposes, using your given stats and equipment)

 

 

 

I suspect that your error stems from the fact that in Tipit's max hit calculator, the strength bonuses of the Obby Dagger and Obby Sword have been swapped. #-o

 

Not your fault, really . . .

 

 

 

*Edit- Posted this as a reply to the third page, thus missing the entire fourth page of messages. -.-

 

Point still stands.

[Wkw]

The weaps to have are sword, dagger, and mace.

 

 

 

Sword owns for str training and slash

 

dagger is second best stab (with rune defender), but only does controlled stab

 

Mace does all 3, and crush, and 1 handed.

 

 

 

 

 

Sword is only good for slash. It has like +50 slash and +10 stab

 

dagger only good for stab, 40+ stab +10 slash

[ydrasil]

There are some things missing here. You state that the loss in attack bonuses can be offsetted by the Rune Defender. This is not entirely true. While the Defender does increase attack bonuses, the overall bonus is still less then what it would be without the necklace. So even with the Defender, accuracy is still reduced.

 

 

 

Something else that no-one has pointed out either yet is for this to be a comparison to the Abyssal Whip/Dragon Scimitar, a suitable amulet is worn, in this case a Fury. What wasn't pointed out is that the Fury gives positive bonuses to attack (+10 to all). This means overall, simply by comparing the amulet/necklace worn, the person with the Fury is already ahead by +20. Seeing as the Whip/Scimitar already has a higher attack bonuses compared to the TokTz-Xil-Ak/TzHaar-Ket-Em (Sword/Maul), the difference is even greater.

 

 

 

Also the Fury gives positive defence bonuses (+15). Meaning that this person is already ahead in defence by +35 defence to all areas (slash/mage etc). People say the defence reduction is too small to be of a difference, but it is. Also note that the Fury has +5 prayer bonus whereas the Berserker Necklace has none. This decreases prayer drain, extends usage of prayer potions and overall saves more money. The Fury even has +1 better strength bonus, but that really is too negligiable to count.

 

 

 

My response will anwser the poster above your post also.

 

 

 

It's true the defender isn't the miracle solution, but it sure does help, doesn't it? Even though there is a 20 attack point deficit when compared to whip+fury, that isn't a whole lot. Take right now, for example. My slayer task is Suqahs. With my guthans on to heal, my attack bonuses are a flat +97. And I rarely miss. Remember these are level 111 suqahs, with considerable defence. That being said, I'm convinced +80ish (I'm using a glory) instead of +97 will work fine. I am 89 attack, however.

 

 

 

I must go back to Highlander's post. A major factor is your level. If you rarely miss anyway, the extra strength bonus will help a lot.

 

 

 

The 20 point attack deficiency is only when comparing the worn neck item. When you compare the weapons also, the difference is great. The TokTz-Xil-Ak has a +47 stab attack bonus and +38 slash attack bonus. Assuming you use stab, the bonus is down to only +37. Whereas the Whip now has +92. A decrease of 55 in bonus is significant in terms of hitting rate. Even if the Npc/Player has low defence, you will still hit more often with the Whip. That is without including the Rune Defender, as it has the same effect on each. All other equipment doesn't specifically matter as it has the same effect on both. In the end, the Whip will always be more accurate, and result in more damage per hour.

 

 

 

P.S Just a correction on my previous post, the Fury does have +5 prayer bonus, but the necklace has +3. However that is still a +2 bonus in favour of the Whip.

[Celt23]

I've tried it on a dagonnoth task and a jungle horror task and it was surprisingly effective; much better than the dragon scimitar I had been using. I'll still be using a whip for attack and a scimitar and salve amulet (e) for undead NPC's. :

[KillTyrant]

If you took a look back into the old guide about training melee, you'll find quite a few of them recommend a tidy little combination: Beserker Necklace, or enchanted Onyx necklace, and the Toktz-xil-ak, or Obby Sword. For those of you unfamiliar with the combination, the sword is about the accuracy and power of a rune scimitar (if used on stab). However, if combined with the Beserker Necklace, you get a +20% bonus to your strength, for as long as you use an obsidian weapon, in our case the Toktz-xil-ak.

 

 

 

Looks around on guides nowadays, there is barely mention of this useful combination. The GEDB shows how what used to be a great training combination has fallen: The Berserker Necklace is priced at barely over 500k, and falling. The Toktz-xil-ak is price at about 168k, and falling. Now consider that a fury, made also of an onyx gem, a gold bar, a ball of wool, and an onyx enchant spell, is well over 3m. Also consider that the dragon scimitar, a stronger weapon than the Toktz-xil-ak, is priced at a mere 100k in the GE, and can be easily bought at Ape Atoll, while the Toktz-xil-ak both costs more, or takes a lot of work to get in Tokkul.

 

.

 

 

 

With a game that is constantly adding new weapons and items the old way of doing things tend to draft to the side to make way for the newer mainstream way of doing things. Soon to do anything but train the way everyone else is training becomes taboo and is frowned upon because its not seen as the best/popular way of doing it. I have seen this thru many things. Easiest to see is trading. Hardly anyone p2p (person to person) trades anymore. Even though they could potentially make more money selling its thru p2p. Point im tryin to make. The reason you dont see this combo around is the fact that the masses wont accept it. It used to be great at one point but isnt anymore. I like this combo and i was saving it for when i go str training because its a cost effective way to raise str but alot of people dont care about what is cost effect only what is accepted and is main stream. Even thought its redundant but this is IMO (I wouldnt say any of this if it wasnt my own opinion which is why i hate using that)

[kurtvegita]

I personally love the combo. Its because it is cost effective and doesn't drain me dry like a vampire, economically of course. It hits rather well, and it is the best cost effective/str training speed choice out there right now. Of course people want the best, but really the best thing to do is to find something in the middle. It costs too much to have the absolute best. People who would say, buy a dragon full helm would cringe in a couple years how much they have paid for it back then and now. With jagex cracking down on bots, there won't be as much of a cash inflation growth as there was before.

[Zaaps1]

There are some things missing here. You state that the loss in attack bonuses can be offsetted by the Rune Defender. This is not entirely true. While the Defender does increase attack bonuses, the overall bonus is still less then what it would be without the necklace. So even with the Defender, accuracy is still reduced.

 

 

 

Something else that no-one has pointed out either yet is for this to be a comparison to the Abyssal Whip/Dragon Scimitar, a suitable amulet is worn, in this case a Fury. What wasn't pointed out is that the Fury gives positive bonuses to attack (+10 to all). This means overall, simply by comparing the amulet/necklace worn, the person with the Fury is already ahead by +20. Seeing as the Whip/Scimitar already has a higher attack bonuses compared to the TokTz-Xil-Ak/TzHaar-Ket-Em (Sword/Maul), the difference is even greater.

 

 

 

Also the Fury gives positive defence bonuses (+15). Meaning that this person is already ahead in defence by +35 defence to all areas (slash/mage etc). People say the defence reduction is too small to be of a difference, but it is. Also note that the Fury has +5 prayer bonus whereas the Berserker Necklace has none. This decreases prayer drain, extends usage of prayer potions and overall saves more money. The Fury even has +1 better strength bonus, but that really is too negligiable to count.

 

 

 

My response will anwser the poster above your post also.

 

 

 

It's true the defender isn't the miracle solution, but it sure does help, doesn't it? Even though there is a 20 attack point deficit when compared to whip+fury, that isn't a whole lot. Take right now, for example. My slayer task is Suqahs. With my guthans on to heal, my attack bonuses are a flat +97. And I rarely miss. Remember these are level 111 suqahs, with considerable defence. That being said, I'm convinced +80ish (I'm using a glory) instead of +97 will work fine. I am 89 attack, however.

 

 

 

I must go back to Highlander's post. A major factor is your level. If you rarely miss anyway, the extra strength bonus will help a lot.

 

 

 

The 20 point attack deficiency is only when comparing the worn neck item. When you compare the weapons also, the difference is great. The TokTz-Xil-Ak has a +47 stab attack bonus and +38 slash attack bonus. Assuming you use stab, the bonus is down to only +37. Whereas the Whip now has +92. A decrease of 55 in bonus is significant in terms of hitting rate. Even if the Npc/Player has low defence, you will still hit more often with the Whip. That is without including the Rune Defender, as it has the same effect on each. All other equipment doesn't specifically matter as it has the same effect on both. In the end, the Whip will always be more accurate, and result in more damage per hour.

 

 

 

P.S Just a correction on my previous post, the Fury does have +5 prayer bonus, but the necklace has +3. However that is still a +2 bonus in favour of the Whip.

 

 

 

That's what I'm saying, though. After a certain point, you simply not missing often on a monster. Ex: Do you still hit hordes of 0s on cows with a bronze dagger? So depending on the monster, the extra attack of the whip will not make a difference. This doesn't mean the monster is sub-level 20 though. Anything with low enough defence.

 

 

 

Although yes, the whip outperforms it in some cases. I'm not trying to make the zerker necklace seem like the best thing to use all the time. I prefer the whip myself on harder monsters, although for weaker ones, it is possible that the necklace+sword is better.

[ydrasil]

That's what I'm saying, though. After a certain point, you simply not missing often on a monster. Ex: Do you still hit hordes of 0s on cows with a bronze dagger? So depending on the monster, the extra attack of the whip will not make a difference. This doesn't mean the monster is sub-level 20 though. Anything with low enough defence.

 

 

 

Although yes, the whip outperforms it in some cases. I'm not trying to make the zerker necklace seem like the best thing to use all the time. I prefer the whip myself on harder monsters, although for weaker ones, it is possible that the necklace+sword is better.

 

 

 

I agree that at higher levels the amount of times you miss is small regardless of the weapon on something with low defence. Even still, there will be a slight difference in hitting rate. However, in most cases the defence of the various monsters people fequently attack is higher. Assuming Tip.It's max hit calc is accurate, no matter your strength level, with the best outfit, comparing Whip+Fury to Obsidian Sword+Berserker Necklace, the Whip always hits one damage high, and with better accuracy makes it an all around better weapon. With no armour on the difference is increased to two.

 

 

 

Even compared to max hit's with the Obsidian Mace, with no armour and no matter the strength level, the Whip always hits higher or equal to Mace - again with increased accuracy. With the best outfit however, then the maul hits higher as it is 20% damage not Strength level (although only by one extra damage). Although again, reduced accuracy and speed.

 

 

 

To me it just doesn't seem worth using either of these two obsidian weapons. The only use is possibly for those who can't afford a Whip. Even then, they only need to save up twice as much for the whip.

[Canadan]

i will still be using a whip to do my training, though it appears that the obsidian combo does make it look like a viable wepon.

[Inuashakent]

First off, let's assume 2/3 of that was the cannon's work.

 

 

 

Eh.

 

 

 

Probably the two biggest reasons why this combination is barely used anymore is because:

 

 

 

1) No two invisible bonuses stack, (I think...) meaning that the black mask is useless.

 

2) Most people train controlled on the whip now, or at least most of the people know.

[Zaaps1]

First off, let's assume 2/3 of that was the cannon's work.

 

 

 

Eh.

 

 

 

 

Right. I know 2/3 might not have been the best number. But I usually come close to that at Kalphites, give or take.

 

 

 

Never been to Mutated Bloodvelds though.

[ddaanniiellh]

 

I agree that at higher levels the amount of times you miss is small regardless of the weapon on something with low defence. Even still, there will be a slight difference in hitting rate. However, in most cases the defence of the various monsters people fequently attack is higher. Assuming Tip.It's max hit calc is accurate, no matter your strength level, with the best outfit, comparing Whip+Fury to Obsidian Sword+Berserker Necklace, the Whip always hits one damage high, and with better accuracy makes it an all around better weapon. With no armour on the difference is increased to two.

 

 

 

Even compared to max hit's with the Obsidian Mace, with no armour and no matter the strength level, the Whip always hits higher or equal to Mace - again with increased accuracy. With the best outfit however, then the maul hits higher as it is 20% damage not Strength level (although only by one extra damage). Although again, reduced accuracy and speed.

 

 

 

To me it just doesn't seem worth using either of these two obsidian weapons. The only use is possibly for those who can't afford a Whip. Even then, they only need to save up twice as much for the whip.

 

 

 

One problem the Tip it Calculator is wrong, the dagger and the sword are backwards.

 

The Sword hits the same as the Whip (As in my experience).

 

 

 

The Sword may not seem like a good substitute for the whip, but...I have been using it recently on my tasks, and the one only one task that I seem to have trouble with using it are hellhounds, they tear me apart while I wear the berserker necklace (I have 95 def with guthans). But even then, the sword easily tears apart all my slayer task creatures.

 

 

 

I suggest you to go try out this method before further commenting on this, because as I myself am using this, I am gaining just about as much xp per day as I do with the whip.

 

 

 

First off, let's assume 2/3 of that was the cannon's work.

 

 

 

Eh.

 

 

 

Probably the two biggest reasons why this combination is barely used anymore is because:

 

 

 

1) No two invisible bonuses stack, (I think...) meaning that the black mask is useless.

 

2) Most people train controlled on the whip now, or at least most of the people know.

 

1): The bonuses do stack on it, and also with void.

 

2) Some people do train with controlled, but certain people, who want to keep certain stats at a certain level do not, and therefore will need another weapon to train strength.

 

~Dan

[loli999]

Well i don't know if any body else here has posted this but i could not be bothered to look through all of them and see if they had or not.

 

 

 

The reason i think this has occured is because if you combine with zerk necklace then that takes up your necklace place. Think about it, the guy who made this topic (sorry if this is rude but i forgot your name lol) was making a big deal how +2 stre can make a big difference. You where comparing obby sword, necklace and ring against just whip. Try comparing it against whip and amulate of strength or glory amulate, glory would probably be better as it also has prayer and attack bonuses.

 

 

 

Though this is only my opinion it may be worth thinking about.

[Eonrogue]

i checked the calculator early on before i even bought the necklace

 

 

 

my max hit with the necklace plus sword is equal to glory plus whip, mace and necklace is a greater hit than whip and glory. Most likely, whip +fury is a better weapon combination but for those of use who cant afford a whip, how would we be able to afford a fury? This is a great combination for those who can't afford all the top gear. I personally love the mace necklace combo. It has become my combat gear of choice. Throw in an obby shield or rune zerker, your good to go as they both make up the def loss and still provide the str of a rune def (cept zerker it has 1 less) And you accuracy doesn't suffer as much as the mace provides a decent attack bonus as it is. Equip a rune defender and though you def suffers a little, your accuracy doesn't and you'll be hitting pretty much constantly. I never plan on going back to a dscimmi unless i am really strapped for cash and need to sell the necklace.

[loli999]

Yes but whip is alot more accurate, especialy when you don't have enything to put its accuracy down. Accuracy is so important but so many people don't recognise that. They think its all about hitting high but its not, say you where in BH and fighting some body, what would be better 40,0,33,0,27,0 or 20,25,30,14,24. I'd say the one hitting continuesly, not because his hit's add up to a higher amount but he is hitting continuesly. I't is hard to k0 some body if you hit 30's-40's's but only once in a while, but if you can keep hitting 20's-30's then not only does your oponent get time to hit you alot but they have to keep eating and if they try and run away then its your chance to hit them when they in low health and kill them before they escape.

 

 

 

This is why wip is alot better and more used. Now day's you don't get alot of people who can't afford whip in members so price isn't some thing to worry about too much. Now i don't want to turn this into a topic about bounty hunter but this will also help in killing monsters. I don't know about you but when ever i used to fight creatures they always used to get near to low health but it almost took forever to kill them and all they needed where like 1 or 2 hits. Now i have trained my attack up and using more accurate weapons it doesnt happen to me as much, believe it or not i have had that strength level for about 4 months at least and i have noticed a massive change since i got my attack up.

[ddaanniiellh]

Yes but whip is alot more accurate, especialy when you don't have enything to put its accuracy down. Accuracy is so important but so many people don't recognise that. They think its all about hitting high but its not, say you where in BH and fighting some body, what would be better 40,0,33,0,27,0 or 20,25,30,14,24. I'd say the one hitting continuesly, not because his hit's add up to a higher amount but he is hitting continuesly. I't is hard to k0 some body if you hit 30's-40's's but only once in a while, but if you can keep hitting 20's-30's then not only does your oponent get time to hit you alot but they have to keep eating and if they try and run away then its your chance to hit them when they in low health and kill them before they escape.

 

 

 

This is why wip is alot better and more used. Now day's you don't get alot of people who can't afford whip in members so price isn't some thing to worry about too much. Now i don't want to turn this into a topic about bounty hunter but this will also help in killing monsters. I don't know about you but when ever i used to fight creatures they always used to get near to low health but it almost took forever to kill them and all they needed where like 1 or 2 hits. Now i have trained my attack up and using more accurate weapons it doesnt happen to me as much, believe it or not i have had that strength level for about 4 months at least and i have noticed a massive change since i got my attack up.

 

But part of the point of this discussion is comparing it to the Dragon Scimitar, in terms of how good it is for Strength training. I realize that the whip is definitely more accurate, but when I'm using the Obby Sword, I still rarely miss, and i'm still killing things faster than people with Sara Swords are.

 

~Dan

[Deathmath]

I've tried it on a dagonnoth task and a jungle horror task and it was surprisingly effective; much better than the dragon scimitar I had been using. I'll still be using a whip for attack and a scimitar and salve amulet (e) for undead NPC's. :

 

Yes. Very good :)

[ydrasil]

One problem the Tip it Calculator is wrong, the dagger and the sword are backwards.

 

The Sword hits the same as the Whip (As in my experience).

 

 

 

The Sword may not seem like a good substitute for the whip, but...I have been using it recently on my tasks, and the one only one task that I seem to have trouble with using it are hellhounds, they tear me apart while I wear the berserker necklace (I have 95 def with guthans). But even then, the sword easily tears apart all my slayer task creatures.

 

 

 

I suggest you to go try out this method before further commenting on this, because as I myself am using this, I am gaining just about as much xp per day as I do with the whip.

 

 

 

When I said assuming the max hit calculator is correct, I was referring to the amount of damage dealt. I already knew the Sword and Dagger were switched. I used the one with the higher strength bonus (Sword). So unless someone using the Dagger with a lower strength bonus would hit higher, I don't see a mistake. The calc shows that the Whip always hits 1 damage higher compared to the Sword.

 

 

 

But part of the point of this discussion is comparing it to the Dragon Scimitar, in terms of how good it is for Strength training. I realize that the whip is definitely more accurate, but when I'm using the Obby Sword, I still rarely miss, and i'm still killing things faster than people with Sara Swords are.

 

~Dan

 

 

 

When compared to the Dragon Scimitar, the Obsidian Sword will hit higher (by 3-4 damage, that is with best outfit) and hits higher by 1 damage with nothing but neck and weapon being compared. Again the Obsidian Sword is still less accurate. Keep in mind the other additional bonuses of the Fury compared to the Necklace. Increased prayer bonus, increased defence, increased accuracy, even increased strength bonus.

[Dairith]

Using this for non-slayer training is viable too. Void stacks with the berserker necklace (tip.it max hit calc incorrectly shows that it doesn't), meaning that the negative accuracy is negated by the +10% attack (if not negated then very nearly so), in edition to adding another 10% damage, bringing your damage up to +30% dmg each hit.

[asianboy7o7]

but does the combo compare to the ss?

[xpx]

Mutated bloodvelds are not bloodvelds. The differences between these monsters is similar to baby blue dragons and blue dragons. Whip+fury IS better than obsidian sword+berserker necklance- you forgot to mention the fact that berserker necklace has a negative effect on both your defence and attack. Also your estimates of cannoning muted bloodvelds are bull.... They provide no useful information at all. Cannoning means you won't be concentrating on melee training, but keeping the cannon supplied and luring more monsters to yourself.

 

 

 

I would appreciated it if you helped me correct any mistakes I've made.

 

 

 

But firstly, while it is true the necklace reduces attack and defence, it is easily compensated by using the rune defender, which was not used. Also, remember the prayer, super set, and black mask effects for the slayer task.

 

 

 

Also your estimates of cannoning muted bloodvelds are bull.... They provide no useful information at all. Cannoning means you won't be concentrating on melee training, but keeping the cannon supplied and luring more monsters to yourself.

 

 

 

What do you mean by that? Do you mean the xp/hour there, or my calculations using it?

 

 

 

Surely feeding the cannon 30 cannonballs every minute or so can't stop you from getting THAT much xp? I've used a cannon, and I can refill the cannon without delay. (Eg, without stopping my next melee attack.)

 

Theres no such things as compensation for melee bonuses- if you really need the defence of a dfs and bandos armor at iron dragons or black demons, you can't just switch to a defender and lose a whopping 70 defence bonuses. -10 attack bonus is a huge amount of it, and no, it can not be compensated by a defender, other stats matter too. As the godsword is only great against very high leveled monsters, the obsidian combo would only work better for <90 leveled monsters, making it useless for most maxed people.

 

 

 

And about the cannoning bit- just delete the calculations. They serve no information. All the assumptions are wrong. The monsters even, are wrong. The equipment is, undoubtably, wrong.

[davidium]

if a weapon was truly good it's price would reflect that...it would be just a matter of TIME. for example look at how the price of rune scims shot up when rs2 came out and jagex introduced a new concept of weapon speed...scims became the new weapon of choice over rune 2hs...similarly look at how the price of sara godswords started off less than 50M but more than doubled when ppl found out it's true value...the fact that the price of obby necklace remains low only implies one thing: it is not a good training method. you can rest assured that there are always hundreds if not thousands of people experimenting new ways to gain greater exp everyday and i'm sure the obby necklace would have come across their minds at some point in time but the fact that the price of the obby necklace has stayed down for so long goes to show how unpopular it is compared to other methods suggesting that there is a better option. a good weapon will never just fade away like that...

[Vincent]

i think for the people that are criticising it, they need to actually use these weapons/berserker necklace so then they can see that they're decent and compete well with the whip/fury and in some cases are better.

 

 

 

i actually prefer the berserker with sword more than the whip/fury in a lot of situations. god swords and sara sword are overpriced currently imo. they're good weapons but their value does not equal what is being asked for in price.

 

 

 

and just saying that price indicates value is not true. people pay a lot for status items because of their status and also they pay more when merchants manipulate prices. huge emphasis on merchants manipulating prices because it is widely done in runescape especially with high ticket status items.

 

 

 

and tbh i could care less what some people think of something they've never even tried. my guess is these items arent favoured by merchants because they have a more difficult time making a profit off them. sad but true. and the zamorakian spear completely owns all other weapons for killing waterfiends but for status? probably doesnt compete well with other items.

 

 

 

i'd rather try something to see if it works rather than get upset over something because i paid more for a less useful item.