"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[constrictor]

A silly analogy, to be honest.

Being selfless (or seekin to not be selfish) is not giving away your happiness to somone.

It's seeking to ENJOY life (ie your happiness) with someone else. It's sharing your happiness - overflowing. Thus turning your happiness from an inward focus to an outward focus.

 

If being "selfless" means you primarily care about others while still caring about yourself, then being "selfish" would be to primarily care about yourself while still caring about others.

 

Happiness is either "shareable" or it isn't. Pick one and continue your argument.

 

Not what I'm trying to argue. I'm trying to pull you away from your idea that selfishness is equal or determinant by happiness. Because it's not.

 

You can be unhappy single and still be a selfish prick. You can be happy in a relationship, and none the less, still be a selfish prick.

 

However, being in either situation will result in friends, family, or other communities around you to stay away from you.

Some may put up with you longer than others, but ultimately you destroy relationships by being selfish.

[muggiwhplar]

Not what I'm trying to argue. I'm trying to pull you away from your idea that selfishness is equal or determinant by happiness. Because it's not.

 

I'm not saying selfishness equals or leads to happiness. I'm saying that making yourself unhappy just to avoid being considered "selfish" is insane. And making yourself unhappy just to be considered "selfless" is equally insane.

 

It isn't that other people aren't important. You can still help others if you want to (and I do this routinely, BTW), but if you're doing so just to appear selfless then you're being stupid.

 

You can be unhappy single and still be a selfish prick. You can be happy in a relationship, and none the less, still be a selfish prick.

 

Correct. Depends on what your definition of a selfish prick is. Being inconsiderate and caring only about yourself doesn't lead to happiness. That's not how reality works. But the same thing can be said for caring only about others.

 

However, being in either situation will result in friends, family, or other communities around you to stay away from you.

Some may put up with you longer than others, but ultimately you destroy relationships by being selfish.

 

And why is that a bad thing? Because then you'd be unhappy.

 

Again, you can't say that being "selfless" allows you to help others and yourself, whereas being "selfish" allows you to help yourself but not others.

[constrictor]

Not what I'm trying to argue. I'm trying to pull you away from your idea that selfishness is equal or determinant by happiness. Because it's not.

 

I'm not saying selfishness equals or leads to happiness. I'm saying that making yourself unhappy just to avoid being considered "selfish" is insane. And making yourself unhappy just to be considered "selfless" is equally insane.

 

It isn't that other people aren't important. You can still help others if you want to (and I do this routinely, BTW), but if you're doing so just to appear selfless then you're being stupid.

 

You can be unhappy single and still be a selfish prick. You can be happy in a relationship, and none the less, still be a selfish prick.

 

Correct. Depends on what your definition of a selfish prick is. Being inconsiderate and caring only about yourself doesn't lead to happiness. That's not how reality works.

 

However, being in either situation will result in friends, family, or other communities around you to stay away from you.

Some may put up with you longer than others, but ultimately you destroy relationships by being selfish.

 

And why is that a bad thing? Because then you'd be unhappy.

 

I'm beginning to wonder why we are arguing. In nearly every instance we are essentially agreeing. I agree with all you said, I think in my mind what you are saying is that personal gain is equally important as being others focused.

And I agree. You need to balance how you let people treat you and how you treat yourself as well as others.

 

 

My bigger question for you, just for the sake of curiosity, is what makes you think we should be happy? For lack of better explanation, why do we deserve happiness?

[muggiwhplar]

My bigger question for you, just for the sake of curiosity, is what makes you think we should be happy? For lack of better explanation, why do we deserve happiness?

 

We should be happy because it's the final arbiter of the human experience. Happiness is your indicator of how you well you're doing as a human being. If you're constantly experiencing fear, anger, stress, etc. instead of happiness, joy, euphoria, peace, etc. then you're doing something wrong.

 

I deserve happiness because I say I do. :)

[constrictor]

My bigger question for you, just for the sake of curiosity, is what makes you think we should be happy? For lack of better explanation, why do we deserve happiness?

 

We should be happy because it's the final arbiter of the human experience. Happiness is your indicator of how you well you're doing as a human being. If you're constantly experiencing fear, anger, stress, etc. instead of happiness, joy, euphoria, peace, etc. then you're doing something wrong.

 

I deserve happiness because I say I do. :)

 

Imteresting theory.

 

Who's to say that peak physical fitness isn't the final arbiter?

 

Seems like a endgame view of humanity, to be honest.

[muggiwhplar]

My bigger question for you, just for the sake of curiosity, is what makes you think we should be happy? For lack of better explanation, why do we deserve happiness?

 

We should be happy because it's the final arbiter of the human experience. Happiness is your indicator of how you well you're doing as a human being. If you're constantly experiencing fear, anger, stress, etc. instead of happiness, joy, euphoria, peace, etc. then you're doing something wrong.

 

I deserve happiness because I say I do.

 

Imteresting theory.

 

Who's to say that peak physical fitness isn't the final arbiter?

 

Seems like a endgame view of humanity, to be honest.

 

More or less. I believe personal self-development leads to humanity's development. I can't think of any reasons why physical fitness would be the endgame, especially in modern society.

[constrictor]

My bigger question for you, just for the sake of curiosity, is what makes you think we should be happy? For lack of better explanation, why do we deserve happiness?

 

We should be happy because it's the final arbiter of the human experience. Happiness is your indicator of how you well you're doing as a human being. If you're constantly experiencing fear, anger, stress, etc. instead of happiness, joy, euphoria, peace, etc. then you're doing something wrong.

 

I deserve happiness because I say I do.

 

Imteresting theory.

 

Who's to say that peak physical fitness isn't the final arbiter?

 

Seems like a endgame view of humanity, to be honest.

 

More or less. I believe personal self-development leads to humanity's development. I can't think of any reasons why physical fitness would be the endgame, especially in modern society.

 

Who says happiness is? What if by pursuing happiness we are actually working against humanity evolving into a greater species?

[muggiwhplar]

You'll have to come with an argument for such a case

[constrictor]

Talked and hungout with a friend and my Ex.

She was all cuddly and shit. God why do I do this to myself.

 

Also, half curious if I actually struggle with depression or if I'm just over reacting about everything in my mind.

[Low Levelled]

This argument..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My head..

[RpgGamer]

Constrictor reminds me of my first arguments with Muggiw when he first started posting on here :)

Happiness is my selfish endgame, and I'd like to pass on my 'pathway" to happiness for future generations to either do the same, or achieve the same. Happiness that is, at it's highest possible individual level.

 

To generalize either side's arguement as "selfishness is needed to be happy" or "selflessness is needed to be happy" doesn't do either side justice.

 

As for myself;

 

Went out with latest crazy again. Wasn't that fun. Scolded myself for being dumb again. Went and smoked a bit with a friend, but he wouldn't shut up about government control and shit. got myself a baconator. And somewhere in the middle of it all my pregnant coworker told me her other job had hired this girl I used to have a huge crush on back in high school before I even met my first girlfriend. She ended up dropping out and disappeared into the world. Aparently she's looking real cute and has "managable crazy" * as my pregnant friend put it. I think I'm gonna lean toward that in a week or two when I pull my head out of my testicles.

 

Carnival starts in 4 weeks. Outta do it then.

 

*Crazy enough for me to like, not crazy enough to carve my name into her body

 

Oh and chick with kid somehow managed to find a new guy. And former coworker and I texted today briefly about partys and stuff we both went to.

 

 

It's also occured to me I may or may not treat women more like conquests than people. This makes me feel bad about myself.

[Nom]

This seems appropriate.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L7FuA8Rry8

[RpgGamer]

Just got a facebook message from latest crazy: (paraphrase)

"I've been talking to this dude in Wales for a bit now, and I think I'm going to move in with him in 2 years, it's my ticket out of home. So I have to be loyal to him for 2 years to make that happen, which means we really shouldn't try to work this out anymore"

 

Poor dude.

[Tim]

Went out with latest crazy again. Wasn't that fun. Scolded myself for being dumb again.

Damnit, bad RPG. bad!

 

Went and smoked a bit with a friend, but he wouldn't shut up about government control and shit

[Sir_Squab]

Not what I'm trying to argue. I'm trying to pull you away from your idea that selfishness is equal or determinant by happiness. Because it's not.

 

I'm not saying selfishness equals or leads to happiness. I'm saying that making yourself unhappy just to avoid being considered "selfish" is insane. And making yourself unhappy just to be considered "selfless" is equally insane.

 

It isn't that other people aren't important. You can still help others if you want to (and I do this routinely, BTW), but if you're doing so just to appear selfless then you're being stupid.

 

You can be unhappy single and still be a selfish prick. You can be happy in a relationship, and none the less, still be a selfish prick.

 

Correct. Depends on what your definition of a selfish prick is. Being inconsiderate and caring only about yourself doesn't lead to happiness. That's not how reality works.

 

However, being in either situation will result in friends, family, or other communities around you to stay away from you.

Some may put up with you longer than others, but ultimately you destroy relationships by being selfish.

 

And why is that a bad thing? Because then you'd be unhappy.

 

I'm beginning to wonder why we are arguing. In nearly every instance we are essentially agreeing. I agree with all you said, I think in my mind what you are saying is that personal gain is equally important as being others focused.

And I agree. You need to balance how you let people treat you and how you treat yourself as well as others.

 

I figured this out half a dozen posts ago. You're arguing over terminology. You're arguing because your definition of selfish is a person who does not care about others. Half a dozen posts ago, I wanted to quote you, quote muggi, then say "potato potahto."

 

My bigger question for you, just for the sake of curiosity, is what makes you think we should be happy? For lack of better explanation, why do we deserve happiness?

 

Virtually every single person on the planet would choose happiness over unhappiness if it was a simple choice between A and B. Why would you willingly and knowingly choose unhappiness over happiness? Maybe a few people because they feel guilt for something, and they deserve unhappiness, but virtually all people on the planet would pick happiness over unhappiness if it was a simple, obvious, easy choice.

[Randox]

Well, I'm glad the two of you got the whole arguing the same side at each other out of the way, because I had a post I wanted to make, but I need some posts between me and the one that sparked it, or I just look silly (at the risk of still looking silly).

 

In brief, all human relationships are self serving. We all get something from having relationships (and this is any kind of amiable social relationship, and it also applies to at least one side of an adversarial relationship as well). We form communities because simply put, we get more done. Rather than having each person, or even each family, try to figure out all this stuff for themselves (stuff being technology, economics, politics, etc), we pool our resources, allow people to focus on their strong suits, and increase our net gain. These are the advantages of being a social creature, which we keep alive partly through needs/desires that are part of our genetics (some people do cope just fine without any human interaction. Others certainly start to lose it after a few months of total isolation, and I expect this would be the majority of us).

 

My point though, is that it's also co-operative. That we can, and do, serve ourselves by serving others. Now Mugi is right about sticking in an unhappy relationship. But we seek relationships out, and we make compromises, because other people have/are things we need, and this is how we get them.

 

 

I'm also interested in the discussion of happiness. If you take happiness to be the release of endorphin's, the brains own feel good drug, then you can't be happy all the time unless your brain is seriously broken. It's specifically designed to reward you, and then cut off the supply to make you earn the reward again. If this didn't happen, we would all turn into Pandas. Perfectly happy to sit on our asses all day, every day, doing the absolute bare minimum to stay alive (bamboo is not their staple food. Panda's are carnivores, bamboo is like plan D). The only reason they aren't extinct yet is because we think they are cute (because they totally are), so we artificially inseminate them to keep the species going (I'm not sure what has actually gone wrong with that species, but I think it illustrates the point nicely).

 

This doesn't mean you can't be content, satisfied, or otherwise pleased with yourself and your life, but I think the idea that you can somehow be happy all the time is fantastically ludicrous, and it's that expectation, that people think there is some magical mood where you are farting rainbows and your brain is full of sunshine and teddy bears all day, and they are missing out on it because they haven't figured out the secret yet, is what makes people unhappy, or at least makes them think they are. The closest thing to that is probably mania.

 

When I read Mugi's posts, to me it seems less like constant hits of happy (as I use the word. Given how much the meaning has changed over time, I'm not the least bit inclined to criticize or correct how people use the word), but he has worked out a, I suppose system, to organize his life such that he can consistently enjoy it, and I think what Muggi calls happiness is what I call enjoyment.

 

The one I see tripping people up is the belief that there is some secret way by which your head can be full of lollipops and sunshine all the freaking time, without lifting a finger, and they are upset, they are decidedly unhappy, because they don't feel this way, not realizing that biologically, you can't feel that way without the aid of a mental illness or brain trauma (or possibly being reincarnated as a Panda). You have to work at that one. Once you make peace with that, you can move on to actually enjoying life as it is, safe in the knowledge that your not really missing out on anything.

 

Just some hopefully mostly coherent thoughts.

[muggiwhplar]

Had a long post typed out and hit the Back button and it got erased :wall:

 

There's many different forms of happiness. I don't think it's possible to remain consistently happy without constantly doing things like going out of your comfort zone and making changes to your life. Because if you aren't changing anything, you're gradually going to get bored. This is why stuff like setting goals is important.

 

There's different degrees of happiness and I suspect that most people have never experienced some of the "upper levels" of happiness to know that there's a better way to live. My friends might say they're "happy," but to me they're just "content" or "satisfied," which in my book is basically mediocre (I consider them merely content or satisfied because of the things they say and do). When you live on the upper-end of the ladder, life gets good.

 

For example, if happiness is a scale, it might look something like this from worst to best:

Suicidal - depressed - apathetic - bored - content - satisfied - happy - joyful - euphoric

 

To give an example, I think most people feel "euphoric" for extremely short periods of time after stuff like sex. But there's been about 2-3 times in my life where I've literally felt euphoric for a full day at a time. I wrote about that here. The second time I was euphoric for nearly 48 hours. But the interesting thing was, by the end of the second day, I paradoxically got kind of "bored" of the state. I didn't feel comfortable feeling so euphoric because it was like feeling the opposite of depression, yet at the same time it was in a way similar to being depressed. Because when I was in that state I was kind of like, "What's the point of doing anything if I'm already at my peak?" It's like getting 200M XP in RuneScape and then all future endeavors in that skill are "pointless." If that makes sense. But then again, for all I know there could be another level beyond even that state. If that were the case, then I wouldn't mind being euphoric 24/7 :P But since I've never experienced anything higher than that, similar to how many people have probably never experienced happiness beyond a certain point, it's hard to know.

 

The "goal" is to have your baseline state be higher up on the happiness ladder. If you're "depressed" by default, then you're probably doing something wrong. You're not getting out of your comfort zone or making enough changes or something. In my case, I fluctuate between satisfied and joyful depending on circumstances. I usually only feel euphoric for short periods of time after I've accomplished something really important and it's like I'm being "rewarded" for it or something.

[Noxx]

Hi guys :D

 

It's been a while since i really posted here, mostly because for the past few weeks i've "taken myself out of the game" to focus on myself for a bit. As self-centered as that sounds, it's actually done me a lot of good. A few weeks ago i mentioned something about me and my ex talking again, and that she said when i move back to Doha, and get job, me, her and her friends should get a house together. Although i didn't really even consider doing it, it was nice to think that if i wanted to get back together with her the possibility was there. And i enjoyed this though, because i thought i still had a lot of love left for her. Thought. A few days ago me and my sister were talking on the phone and she mentioned seeing my ex at a club on night. My ex has never been th clubbing type, so i already knew this was not going to end well. She told me about how my ex was so drunk she had some stability issues. She was talking at the top of her voice, pretty much acting like a 13 year old girl who sneaked into her parents' liquor cabinet. For some reason this really changed the way i thought of her. When i met her, one of the key reasons i grew to love her was because, even though she was so much different than me, we shared a lot of the same things. I was not a big drinker when i met her, nor was i really fond of drugs. She was the same. But the past few months she changed so much that, when we're talking on Skype she's either high, drunk, or both. She mentions getting drunk/high in probably 80% of whatever she posts on FaceBook. So needless to say, my feelings towards her have changed a lot and i think we would be best suited as being "just friends".

 

So a few days after this, i catch a girl online on FB, while i was uploading some pictures for my friend. We started talking (first time in about 2 or 3 months). I asked her if she still remembered the first day we met. We started talking about it, and how we had a bit of a moment when the two of us were alone in an elevator. This was about a year ago. I remember wanting to kiss her, but never having the balls to do so. She went on to say how it was probably better, since she was very good friends with my sister, she knew my ex, and i am 5 years younger than her. I asked her if age really mattered to her, and she said yes, because most guys my age only want one thing (hah, actually most guys do). I told her what i really wanted from relationships, and that sex doesn't play as big a role to me as most people would think. She seemed a bit surprised and a few minutes later said "Well, either way, i think when you get back home we should meet up." There was a lot of playful, flirty conversation between the two of us, and i am excited to see her when i go back home end of this month.

 

Now lastly, and this is probably the part where i might need some sort of input.

Don't know if any of you still remember, but a few weeks ago i mentioned liking a girl here, that kind of had a thing with my friend. We have had a few texts sent back and forth the past week or so. She's very tough to get a hold of since most of our conversations have been on FB, and she does not check FB very often (at all). So today i sent her a message asking her how her weekend was. Me and my friends were supposed to see them on Saturday night when we went out, but we never did because we decided to stay home and just have a BBQ instead. She told me how hers was, and asked me how mine was. Nothing too special. Thing is, i want to spend some time with her before i go back home for a while. So i told her i have something to ask her, so when she gets the message i sent her on FB, she should send me a text message and i'll go ahead and ask her. Now my idea was one of two things. Either ask her to have a drink with me (be it alcoholic or just coffee) or to have a meal with me (me it dinner or lunch). Now this is where the trick comes in. Coffee and lunch are two extremely different things to drinks and dinner. With drinks/dinner one would assume that it's going to be in the evening, and doing things in the evening often lead to other expectations, afterwards. This is the last thing i want her to think. She is a very pretty girl, gets a lot of attention. So i don't want her to get the idea that i'm going to take her out, hope to get her a tipsy and then try to pull a fast one on her. But i don't want her to think that i'm taking her out for lunch/coffee because i want to be her bff, either. It might seem like i'm over thinking things, but really this is just the reality of what i have come to notice about girls around here.

But with all of that said, what would be the better option?

Or anything else that i am not thinking of (no cinema, because it's foolish to take someone to the cinema when you want to have a conversation with them).

[Randox]

Heh, I was on a drug for a week a while back that caused euphoria as one of the side effects. I'm with you, that while that might be kind of an awesome feeling, it's not entirely pleasant when it lasts to long.

[Kaida23]

Just ask your pusher pharmacist for a smaller dosage. ;)

[Randox]

Wasn't an option. To be effective, it had to be a certain strength, and I react to it with the amazing combination of euphoria and anxiety. I actually had to stop it for another reason as well, since it can lead to certain complications that would be particularly bad for me. The medication that has ultimately replaced it is much nicer anyway.

[RpgGamer]

Great posts ladies and gents. I love the debates! Muggiws happiness scale, and everything Randox just said. Super well put.

 

 

When i met her, one of the key reasons i grew to love her was because, even though she was so much different than me, we shared a lot of the same things. I was not a big drinker when i met her, nor was i really fond of drugs. She was the same. But the past few months she changed so much that, when we're talking on Skype she's either high, drunk, or both. She mentions getting drunk/high in probably 80% of whatever she posts on FaceBook. So needless to say, my feelings towards her have changed a lot and i think we would be best suited as being "just friends".

 

Plot twist: I'm your ex.

 

Now lastly, and this is probably the part where i might need some sort of input.

Don't know if any of you still remember, but a few weeks ago i mentioned liking a girl here, that kind of had a thing with my friend. We have had a few texts sent back and forth the past week or so. She's very tough to get a hold of since most of our conversations have been on FB, and she does not check FB very often (at all). So today i sent her a message asking her how her weekend was. Me and my friends were supposed to see them on Saturday night when we went out, but we never did because we decided to stay home and just have a BBQ instead. She told me how hers was, and asked me how mine was. Nothing too special. Thing is, i want to spend some time with her before i go back home for a while. So i told her i have something to ask her, so when she gets the message i sent her on FB, she should send me a text message and i'll go ahead and ask her. Now my idea was one of two things. Either ask her to have a drink with me (be it alcoholic or just coffee) or to have a meal with me (me it dinner or lunch). Now this is where the trick comes in. Coffee and lunch are two extremely different things to drinks and dinner. With drinks/dinner one would assume that it's going to be in the evening, and doing things in the evening often lead to other expectations, afterwards. This is the last thing i want her to think. She is a very pretty girl, gets a lot of attention. So i don't want her to get the idea that i'm going to take her out, hope to get her a tipsy and then try to pull a fast one on her. But i don't want her to think that i'm taking her out for lunch/coffee because i want to be her bff, either. It might seem like i'm over thinking things, but really this is just the reality of what i have come to notice about girls around here.

But with all of that said, what would be the better option?

Or anything else that i am not thinking of (no cinema, because it's foolish to take someone to the cinema when you want to have a conversation with them).

 

I feel like your thikning is reasonable, but a bit over the top. I don't think she'll read into this as far as you have. Go for a late lunch. Like 15:30-16:30 or so.

[homer205]

So long as you don't get her tipsy and take advantage, then assuming she says yes, there's not as much of a drawback to a dinner as you're imagining.

[Kimberly]

Please continue the discussion on consent and intoxication here: http://forum.tip.it/topic/319194-intoxication-and-consent-morality-legality-and-other-shenanigans/

[muggiwhplar]

Got this in my POF inbox this afternoon:

 

My name is Markus and I created POF/Plentyoffish. When I created POF, I wanted it to be all about finding relationships with the right person. For the first 7 years this worked really well, I got the site to 10 million users without any employees people and POF was generating a ton of relationships. Around 3 years ago, everyone started using the website via mobile phones. Today about 70% of POF use is via a mobile phone and unfortunately about 2% of men started to use POF as more of a hookup site mostly due the the casual nature of cell phone use.

 

In sticking with my vision that POF is all about Relationships, I'm going to make a bunch of changes to ensure it stays a relationship-focused site.

 

1. Any first contact between users that contains sexual references will not be sent. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will be deleted without warning. This rule has actually been in effect since last month and it's made the site so much better.

 

2. You can only contact people +/- 14 years of your age. There is no reason for a 50 year old man to contact a 18 year old women. The majority of messages sent outside those age ranges are all about hookups. Anyone who tries to get around this rule will get deleted.

 

3. Intimate Encounters will go away in the next few months. There are 3.3 Million people who use the site every day, of those there are only 6,041 single women looking for Intimate Encounters. Of those 6,041 women, the ones with hot pictures are mostly men pretending to be women. Intimate Encounters on POF can be summed up as a bunch of horny men talking to a bunch of horny men pretending to be women.

 

In short the vast majority of people will not be impacted. This is because the vast majority of people are not going around spamming women saying "let's have sex tonight". I can't change POF alone, I need your help to get the word out there that POF is all about relationships!

 

Markus

 

While none of those changes affect me, this was still frustrating to read. More specifically, rule #2, considering you can already prevent users from a certain age group from sending you messages if you wish. You'd think a guy who's in charge of a massive dating site would have a better understanding of how dating/sex/relationships work.