Removal of new high level potions in PvP

[newge4]

So, lets compromise and make everyone/no one happy. Work it sort of like they did summoning, only no addition to cmbt in non-PVP and in PVP it adds to your cmbt ONLY if you are carrying extreme pots. Everyone satisfied?

 

No offence intended but that idea is awful,

unless you're taking the piss, then its great.

Why? It makes herbalists happy since they can still use their extreme pots in PvP, and it makes PK'ers happy since people toting extreme pots will have their cmbt lvl affected. So, what reasons are there that make this bad?

[RayOxide]

Well first off, my other post would explain my reason,

and secondly, skills shouldnt affect runescape PKing, it's combat.

[PrevDharockslayer]

No way in HECK this should have ever been allowed in dangerous PVP.

 

All is fair, skillers deserve a good update, and I adore the way herblore gave it to them.

 

But to be honest, if you really really really stand for being able to 1 hit someone with quite a margin who has a maxed hp bar, even if he has the highest defence bonus in the entire bloody game, then you shouldn't be talking.

 

I stand for a fight, not a one shot kill. That is not pking, it is a cowardice action.

 

The only game in which I have seen this much overpowering damage is in AvP2, where the predator could stealth, and instant kill someone with a 100% accuracy.

 

 

Although I see no reason why they left it outside of safe pvp like castlewars. I wouldn't mind getting myself completely owned by a high hit in there.

[newge4]

Well first off, my other post would explain my reason,

and secondly, skills shouldnt affect runescape PKing, it's combat.

But, doesn't summoning affect PvP? It's a mixed skill, all this update does is turn herblore into a skill along the lines of summoning.

[Obtaurian]

Well first off, my other post would explain my reason,

and secondly, skills shouldnt affect runescape PKing, it's combat.

 

I totally, 100% agree. I propose that all skills follow suit by being eliminated from all forms of PVP. I believe that cooking should be next, followed by slayer. No sharks, no whips, no extreme potions.

 

Now we're getting somewhere. I SUPPORT YOU, JAGEX.

[RayOxide]

Summoning affects it if the person wants it to.

Its a completely different story because it has a direct influence on combat.

[Unknown_Warrior]

So, lets compromise and make everyone/no one happy. Work it sort of like they did summoning, only no addition to cmbt in non-PVP and in PVP it adds to your cmbt ONLY if you are carrying extreme pots. Everyone satisfied?

 

No offence intended but that idea is awful,

unless you're taking the piss, then its great.

Why? It makes herbalists happy since they can still use their extreme pots in PvP, and it makes PK'ers happy since people toting extreme pots will have their cmbt lvl affected. So, what reasons are there that make this bad?

 

Then should a similar compromise be used for non-extreme pots?

Should a combat level be divided further if you choose not to use Prayer?

 

And what about a level 138 with 96+ Herblore? Have a lvl 145 target?

[RayOxide]

Well first off, my other post would explain my reason,

and secondly, skills shouldnt affect runescape PKing, it's combat.

 

I totally, 100% agree. I propose that all skills follow suit by being eliminated from all forms of PVP. I believe that cooking should be next, followed by slayer. No sharks, no whips, no extreme potions.

 

Now we're getting somewhere. I SUPPORT YOU, JAGEX.

<N_odie: Removed Idiocy>

 

What I meant was, since these potions cant be bought, this is a totally different story in comparison to food, weapons acquired by slayer etc.

Because they are untradeable, they shouldnt be in PvP because then a skill that relies on BUYING items and COMBAT skills would be demolished by skillers who decide to raise their combat to a pure standard and begin to rape the competition in the arse with a 14 foot pole.

[schmuall]

So, lets compromise and make everyone/no one happy. Work it sort of like they did summoning, only no addition to cmbt in non-PVP and in PVP it adds to your cmbt ONLY if you are carrying extreme pots. Everyone satisfied?

 

No offence intended but that idea is awful,

unless you're taking the piss, then its great.

Why? It makes herbalists happy since they can still use their extreme pots in PvP, and it makes PK'ers happy since people toting extreme pots will have their cmbt lvl affected. So, what reasons are there that make this bad?

 

The reason it is bad is because of the precident it sets. I mean, we all can easily understand why Summoning affects your combat in the way that it does but if you start doing it with everything, it'll be rediculous. If you make it so that high level potions raise your combat level, (new max level shall we say 140?) then you'll have to make it do the same for those with a high MA rank and the powerful imbued rings (new max 145). And if you've done it for the rings, you'll have to do it for other items as well shall we say trimmed 99 capes? (new max 150). Rune defender? might as well throw that one in as well.

 

The reason you can't add combat levels is that with every combat level you add on, every other combat level is cheapened untill eventually they're pretty much worthless.

 

The potions should never have been removed from PVP. They were a fair adition that was available to everyone equally, all you have to do raise your herblore level the same as you would strength or attack. If certain people dont want to raise their herblore, that's their choice, but they should have to live with the consequesces of that choice and not just whine until all the rules of the game changes to suit them.

[AlexRose]

 

 

<N_odie: Removed Idiocy>

 

What I meant was, since these potions cant be bought, this is a totally different story in comparison to food, weapons acquired by slayer etc.

Because they are untradeable, they shouldnt be in PvP because then a skill that relies on BUYING items and COMBAT skills would be demolished by skillers who decide to raise their combat to a pure standard and begin to rape the competition in the arse with a 14 foot pole.

 

Before I go on, I decided your post was wrong the moment I saw you felt the need to assert your position by pointless insults, and not by rational discussion.

 

Since when was there a rule that forbade combat and non-combat skills from being benifical to each other? Those skillers have put in an effort to raise their herblore level to such extreme standards; it is my opinion that if they are willing to put the effort into raising levels that would benifical to them, then they deserve a reward, which is an advantage over other people who have not quite put in as much effort into the game. If I raise 250k for Runite armour, would it not make sense that I would have an advantage over a person who only raised 20k for Mithirl armour?

[RayOxide]

Before I go on, I decided your post was wrong the moment I saw you felt the need to assert your position by pointless insults, and not by rational discussion.

 

Oh dear I am sorry if I offended you, by apparently pointlessly insulting someone who disregarded the whole point of my post and jumped to conclusions on what I meant.

 

Please accept my apologies.

And have some flowers.

And here is a card for you to get better.

 

As for the rest of your post, you're way off.

Since everything else there is buyable it's fair game. Noone is going to buy 90 or so herblore for these. They should just be tradeable and somehow profitable.

[Bladewing]

I'm glad they removed the potions from PvP. Why?

 

Because every pure and his mom would need 90+ herblore.

 

And then I'd never be able to train herblore or buy herb seeds for farming again. :boohoo:

[Dirkmetal]

No way in HECK this should have ever been allowed in dangerous PVP.

 

All is fair, skillers deserve a good update, and I adore the way herblore gave it to them.

 

But to be honest, if you really really really stand for being able to 1 hit someone with quite a margin who has a maxed hp bar, even if he has the highest defence bonus in the entire bloody game, then you shouldn't be talking.

 

I stand for a fight, not a one shot kill. That is not pking, it is a cowardice action.

 

The only game in which I have seen this much overpowering damage is in AvP2, where the predator could stealth, and instant kill someone with a 100% accuracy.

 

 

Although I see no reason why they left it outside of safe pvp like castlewars. I wouldn't mind getting myself completely owned by a high hit in there.

Wait, the Predators can one hit someone if your cloaked? I did not know that. Also AvP2 PWNS!

[AlexRose]

Before I go on, I decided your post was wrong the moment I saw you felt the need to assert your position by pointless insults, and not by rational discussion.

 

Oh dear I am sorry if I offended you, by apparently pointlessly insulting someone who disregarded the whole point of my post and jumped to conclusions on what I meant.

 

Please accept my apologies.

And have some flowers.

And here is a card for you to get better.

 

As for the rest of your post, you're way off.

Since everything else there is buyable it's fair game. Noone is going to buy 90 or so herblore for these. They should just be tradeable and somehow profitable.

 

Then why don't you just tell him he has misinterpreted your argument and provide evidence supporting your assertion? And yes, I know you at least attempted to do so, but insults are completely unnecessary, impolite, and calls into question the validity of your argument.

 

On a rather related note, you seem to have missed the point of my argument. I am arguing that in this game, effort should directly be related to reward. If you put the effort into raising the extra 200k to buy the runeite armor over the mithril, then you deserve the bonuses of the extra defensive stats over the person who was only willing to raise 20k. If you put the effort into raising 100 million to obtain 96 herblore, then you deserve the extra stat changes over the person who was not able/willing to obtain/spend this money. If you spend the time and effort into obtaining level 99 Strength, then you deserve to hit higher than the person who was only spent the time and effort into obtaining level 60 Strength. In your own post, you said that "Noone is going to buy 90 or so herblore for these". Please explain how buying Runite armour to boost your defensive stats and buying level 96 Herblore to boost all of your stats is fundamentally different.

[RayOxide]

Then why don't you just tell him he has misinterpreted your argument and provide evidence supporting your assertion? And yes, I know you at least attempted to do so, but insults are completely unnecessary, impolite, and calls into question the validity of your argument.

 

Just because you seem kinda new and I rarely post here, I'm rayoxide. Nice to meet you.

 

I honestly do not care, I do not believe in swearing and I believe if people dont want to be insulted they should toughen up or pay more attention.

 

However, as much of a point you do bring up, you dont need to raise a skill to get runite armour.

You have to raise your herblore skill to get these potions, though.

Which is the reason I find this stupid.

 

Raising your herblore skill to make an untradeable potion is very different to raising your cash pile to buy the potions themselves.

[stonewall337]

No way in HECK this should have ever been allowed in dangerous PVP.

 

All is fair, skillers deserve a good update, and I adore the way herblore gave it to them.

 

But to be honest, if you really really really stand for being able to 1 hit someone with quite a margin who has a maxed hp bar, even if he has the highest defence bonus in the entire bloody game, then you shouldn't be talking.

 

I stand for a fight, not a one shot kill. That is not pking, it is a cowardice action.

 

The only game in which I have seen this much overpowering damage is in AvP2, where the predator could stealth, and instant kill someone with a 100% accuracy.

 

 

Although I see no reason why they left it outside of safe pvp like castlewars. I wouldn't mind getting myself completely owned by a high hit in there.

 

Never really was "that" big of an advantage.

 

Tradable pots, but need high herb to use? 90 herb to use overload? Just an idea.

[AlexRose]

Then why don't you just tell him he has misinterpreted your argument and provide evidence supporting your assertion? And yes, I know you at least attempted to do so, but insults are completely unnecessary, impolite, and calls into question the validity of your argument.

 

Just because you seem kinda new and I rarely post here, I'm rayoxide. Nice to meet you.

 

I honestly do not care, I do not believe in swearing and I believe if people dont want to be insulted they should toughen up or pay more attention.

 

However, as much of a point you do bring up, you dont need to raise a skill to get runite armour.

You have to raise your herblore skill to get these potions, though.

Which is the reason I find this stupid.

 

Raising your herblore skill to make an untradeable potion is very different to raising your cash pile to buy the potions themselves.

 

Hi! I'm not really new, I just tend to lurk a lot and take rather long breaks from Runescape. I'll drop the insult thing, although I don't really believe that "they deserve it" is a true justification.

 

You do require a skill for runite; you need 40 defense. But for the moment, let's hypothetically assume that it requires one defense, but costs 100 Million GP (or whatever it takes for 96 Herblore). What would be the difference between Runeite and Herblore be then? You still must put the effort into raising one hundred million GP for the Runeite, so why would you not be rewarded for gaining 96 herblore for the same effort? Because you had to raise a skill? You put in the exact same effort (if not more so for taking the time to raise your Herblore), so what does gaining levels have to do with anything?

 

And what is the difference between training herblore and raising a cash pile anyway? :mrgreen:

[Zaaps1]

Actually, it probably IS possible to profit from the new potions, just indirectly.

 

Remember how Jagex said that their calculations proved that with 25gp/ea spirit shards, summoning profits from every pouch you make? Now there are some pouches where this is obvious, such as Foragers, but others are a bit more indirect, like the bunyip or combat familiars.

 

So if the new potion's enhanced performance is weighed more than the extra cost, then you DO profit in the sense that you save money.

[theroyiel]

good, it's to over powed in pvp.

[theroyiel]

I dont see what the fuss is.

 

Personally I find it would be a good thing to let them be in PVP, as they require skills outside of combat.

 

But isnt PVP just about combat? ...

 

EDIT:

@Abby,

Nothing in runescape is hard. It's all clicking. Sure, length of time and boredom make it more annoying and, well, longer, but it isnt hard.

If you're playing a game for competitiveness or a challenge then you shouldnt play runescape.

you do relize that a player could be 1 hit KO with this?

[AlexRose]

good, it's to over powed in pvp.

 

you point are not suport by fact, you just say opnion and wat jegax said.

 

Hmm, maybe you're right Oxide. >_>

[Dalcyte]

So, players who didn't put time and money into making balanced accounts should have equal opportunity when facing players who did? That doesn't make any sense. There is no way that most PVP'ers would ever have gotten access to these potions without selling their precious Armadyl Godswords. I'm skeptical that no one's even SEEN these potions in use, much less the "r34l" player killers.

 

In closing, balanced accounts should be rewarded. Fair and Square.

 

So all of the wilderness combat battles and PVP from the start of RS2 until this point were senseless and stupid because all they involved was...combat? You're saying that the wilderness and PVP was stupid up until this point because it just rewarded players who had higher combat stats, and it was senseless because a player who had higher crafting could lose to a player who had higher attack. Jagex hasn't rendered PVP a free for all where levels don't matter, combat levels and equipment still play just a big of a role. They made PVP just what it was one week ago, and everyone's acting like they've totally nerfed it even though it's the same as it was

 

I really have to disagree with your point. Combat related skills should yield results in combat related events. If you're good at crafting, you should recieve benefits in crafting, not in agility. Of course there's going to relations between the skills, but your experience in combat should effect your performance in combat and combat alone. There shouldn't be a whole other influence on your performance in combat from a different skill totally unrelated to combat.

[brando13a]

Integration is smart. if we had things completely seperate, we'd have attack strength defence and hitpoints all working independant of one another. Basically, without tieing skills together, they just dont work. This is a GAME and in this GAME there are close to 30 SKILLS, the majority of which are not combat related. However, combat is the "main" draw of the game, so why the hell doesnt everything else tie into combat, because combat ties into everything else!

 

RS is unbalanced. I quit years ago because of it, hitpoints are too low, power is too high, there isnt enough high level content (being remedied slowly however), and there's little to no integration of skills.

 

RS needs a major rework, which wont happen, but it does need it. as it is, it works. poorly. We have jagex trying and then showing their cowardice and lack of confidence in improving THEIR game!

 

If agility combined with defence to add to your blocking/dodging ability that would be fantastic. Firemaking giving a boost to fire based magic/allowing fire damage in combat would be amazing. hunting/summoning/slayer linking together to give you new familiars would be an amazing game dynamic as well. There's so much potential to ways that skills could tie into combat to give you an edge, but players whine and complain because jagex set up their game so poorly that these functions cant be accessed until level 85+. so they cave to the whining players, and remove it.

 

Great job jagex, you swung and missed, then dropped the bat and kept on swinging anyway. The whole game needs work now, because of majorly poor planning by jagex. this was the closest thing RS will probably ever see to non combat skills effectively giving you a valid boost in combat. Shame players cant understand that a multifaceted game should be multifaceted, and not separated between safe/dangerous activities. link everything together, give the game some ACTUAL strategy (because honestly there is very little strategy, you can argue this till the cows come home, but weapon switching, rushing and everything else of the like, are timing based, and i can grant they use some strategy but beyond these 3-5 different 'techniques', the strategy dies). That's my view of things anyway, RS is still fun, and despite the major flaws continues to function pretty well.

[AlexRose]

So, players who didn't put time and money into making balanced accounts should have equal opportunity when facing players who did? That doesn't make any sense. There is no way that most PVP'ers would ever have gotten access to these potions without selling their precious Armadyl Godswords. I'm skeptical that no one's even SEEN these potions in use, much less the "r34l" player killers.

 

In closing, balanced accounts should be rewarded. Fair and Square.

 

So all of the wilderness combat battles and PVP from the start of RS2 until this point were senseless and stupid because all they involved was...combat? You're saying that the wilderness and PVP was stupid up until this point because it just rewarded players who had higher combat stats, and it was senseless because a player who had higher crafting could lose to a player who had higher attack. Jagex hasn't rendered PVP a free for all where levels don't matter, combat levels and equipment still play just a big of a role. They made PVP just what it was one week ago, and everyone's acting like they've totally nerfed it even though it's the same as it was

 

I really have to disagree with your point. Combat related skills should yield results in combat related events. If you're good at crafting, you should recieve benefits in crafting, not in agility. Of course there's going to relations between the skills, but your experience in combat should effect your performance in combat and combat alone. There shouldn't be a whole other influence on your performance in combat from a different skill totally unrelated to combat.

 

That's a rather pessimistic way of interpreting his post, as you draw a considerably more negative conclusion than what his tone suggested. He wasn't saying that combat was stupid, but rather that it's not a bad thing that non-combat skills should benefit combat, and that it was a mistake of Jagex to greatly reduce the benefits of having such a high-leveled skill.

 

In any case, I could refute your argument by saying that smithing aids melee fighting, runecrafting helps magic combat, etc.; but I know you would just say it doesn't give as much of a benefit as the Herblore update does. So now we've gotten to the point where we're not actually debating, but whether an increased relation between combat and non-combat skills is a good thing. And on that point I disagree with you on, because I believe that reward should be a function of total effort. Because combat is central to the Runescapian playing experience, I believe it is not out of line for Jagex to use combat as an incentive to raise non-combat skills. In fact, I believe Jagex should take the idea further (An increase in Slash attack accuracy for woodcutting levels, for instance), but that's just me.

 

EDIT: Heh heh, I just got completely ninja'd by the post above me. Curse you and your ninja skills. In any case, I agree with you about Runescape being primarily based on luck. The simplest solution would be to introduce a variety of equally potent, yet different weapons and armor of combat so that various strategies and weapon sets could form. The further integration of all the skills of Runescape could certainly open up new potential. But that's sort of another discussion.

[jimmy_jim]

I've removed the last few posts on this thread. Keep in mind that the thread is for the discussion of the update, there's no need for personal attacks ;)