Removal of new high level potions in PvP

[i_D_r]

This really sucks, i just so happened to have 30k nests preupdate and i turned down pumps/phats prenerf.. pretty much seeing that the only people that would afford herblore anytime soon were rich merchs; once the huge supplies were bought out, herblore would slowly skyrocket, so i sought to use the nests myself. These potions still have their utility so I'm still making out but meh. Everyone's still gonna want at least the top extreme (if not overload, which does have utility it seems if timed with sara brewing) for monster hunting.

 

Thought it was funny I got thousands of toadflax in GE when I just logged in. Oh, and to not use them in minigames is just silly.

[doomy]

It should never have been in Pvp so good update.

[Star_Fox]

i never pvp anyways so....

 

76K REMOVAL NEXT PL0X!

[Myweponsg00d]

I have to wonder, how exactly do these decisions get made at Jagex HQ?

 

Dummy A: Oh, looks like players are complaining that these are overpowered for PvP

Dummy B: Hmm, seems R&D looked over that part of the game entirely, guess they shouldn't be used there.

 

Or...maybe:

 

Dummy A: The players are complaining that these potions are overpowered for PvP. Did we test them in that area of the game?

Dummy B: Yes, as it is our job, we tested these potions and balanced them according to every aspect of the game, including PvP.

Dummy A: Well its been TWO days. Before seeing how this actually affects the game, do you think we should undo all the balancing that the development team put into these potions?

Dummy B: Yeah sure, lets let the players make this game, it'll be easier for the complaint department and those guys look like they need a nap.

 

 

The sad part is, the actual conversation had to be somewhat like this.....They either didnt consider PvP at all, or they put a lot of work into creating what they thought would be a nice balance. I think it likely is the second option, which makes it pretty sad that so much developmental work became obsolete due to complaints that ran wild before anyone even bothered to see if PvP was even messed up in the long run.

[Unb34t4bl3]

Couldn't agree more....

Its unfair to the High levelers jagex proves again that this game is not gonna have high-level content for ever <_<

 

Fixed. ;)

 

Played 2003-2005. Stopped for four years. While the graphics are much nicer, and the game is quite a bit different than what it once was... FOUR YEARS, and Jagex has proven to be the same piece of [cabbage], if not worse than it was once upon a time.

[zotto]

I can't believe it. The majority of reactions to the new update were positive on tip.it. That should say enough. The core of players liked the update.

 

I was going to raise my herblore, but not any more. I'm almost 99 slayer. What's the point now if the update is crippled for half the game.

[Laikrob]

I hope that Jagex does follow this topic, because a lot of great posts and points have been made. As mentioned before, I am usually positive about updates, and as most other RS players who also PvP, play minigames, monster hunt and slay I was thrilled about this one. To go back on it because it was unfair to people who don't want to put an effort into raising skills or money... Well, safe to say, that could have been handled better. In example by not changing it at all, which seems to be what the majority wanted - and I would like to point out that most of the people who didn't want it changed don't even have the levels to utilise the potions yet. In other words, they don't want it just to have an upper hand in PvP right now, but by removing a large part of the incentive you have made most people change their minds about wanting to train their Herblore now. Which is a shame, because it is a great and useful skill, especially if the original updates were kept.

 

Untradeable content as reward for reaching a high level in a skill (and the term "high level" has been pushed after a few updates that have made quite a few skills faster and easier to train, which is not a complaint, but just wanted to point out that 70-75 is no longer a high level in many of the Stealing Creation affected skills) would be great, and has been requested by the players for years. Players, who when they first asked for it were lvl 50's and now are way past 100 Cmb. Effort is not a bad thing, and you can train most skills without money if you train smart - or if you train it alongside a skill that earns you money. If players managed to max out 2-3 years ago - all credit to them - with the higher level of difficulty that had, then why would getting 90+ in one skill now be such a utopia and unfair? High Herblore was never a prerequisite to compete in PvP words, just gave you a bonus. Just like Dragon Claws or Armadyl Godswords. I don't own an AGS, but I have high Herblore. If I had sold all the herbs & second ingredients instead of mixing them into potions, I could have afforded one easily. It was my choice not to buy a Godsword instead, just like it's the PKer's choice to give priority to the expensive damaging weapon. (Which, as I have already mentioned, they won't lose if they PK in +1 BH worlds unless they are unskilled or really unlucky.)

[buzz_knight]

Why it's difficult to understand? Herblore aid to combat, it should have a combat level.

 

If it doesn't gives you a combat level then it shouldn't be on PVP, period.

 

Fishing? we should exclude all food

In fact exclude arrows and runes, runecrafting and fletching don't add to your combat.. etc.

[EpicWin]

The PK'ers get more annoying each time. You always complain, nothing is good enough. This update means you need to start skilling and quit your "LOL SKILLS ARE WASTE OF TIME" complaining, because skilling is a very big aspect in the game and if you do all aspects of game, you deserve advantage over others.

[UserOnRS]

Why it's difficult to understand? Herblore aid to combat, it should have a combat level.

 

If it doesn't gives you a combat level then it shouldn't be on PVP, period.

 

Fishing? we should exclude all food

In fact exclude arrows and runes, runecrafting and fletching don't add to your combat.. etc.

They're all tradable though. :wall: You can't fletch crystal bolts at level 99 that are untradable and hit 70s. :P

[DarkDude]

This update actually gave a reason to level non-combat skills. Prior to this update (the addition of the potions), the only point in raising non-combat skills was for quests as you could just buy all the other items you'd ever need.

 

The update was something this game greatly needed if it was going to advance, unfortunately a large part of the update has now been "nerfed" making it less useful, however not completely. It still has huge uses in PvM combat and a lot of players will still enjoy the new potions.

 

I for one hope Jagex release more updates like this in the future, despite that I think they should have waited with this update until they had similar updates also ready, releasing this alongside a new bow that requires 90 fletching, a new weapon that requires 95 smithing, new food that requires 95 fishing and 95 cooking etc. would have impacting it a lot less on PvP worlds and would be seen as a much more 'epic' update than what this was.

 

That is one of Jagex's major faults in my opinion, they update too frequently, if they updated "little things" like this together at once it would not only give them extra time to work on them for rebalancing problems but also it would make it look like they're updating more.

[Zepheras]

I think the majority of the people here missed the point.

 

It's not about why Jagex nerfed the rewards for working so hard (or paying so much) for high level herblore.

 

It's not about how low herblore level people whine and won the fight.

 

It's not about whether tradeable/non-tradeable items should add to your combat level. Or maybe it is. Partly.

 

It's about how these new untradeable potion makes the herblore skill somewhat similar to SUMMONING. I've posted twice, on how there has been discussion ever since the potions came out that this update makes the herblore skill somewhat a contributing factor to the combat abilities of a player on the previous thread. While things like super sets, tradeable/untradeable equipment and food are choices you make before you go out and PvP, these potions being untradeable demand that you have the right herblore level to make (and hence use it), much like how having a pouch in your inventory would increase your combat level in PVP worlds. If Jagex chose to make Summoning a combat skill, adding levels for having a pouch in your inventory, the same would have to be applied to herblore regarding these new potions.

 

Only problem being it's silly to have herblore, a secondary skill producing combat related product becoming a contributor to combat level itself. If anything, this change to remove the potions from PVP rather than messing around with combat level calculation was just a matter of time. I would think that, if summoning wasn't considered a combat skill, but a skill producing a special kind of combat equipment/advantage, then it would have been alright to have these new potions from high level herblore in PvP as well. But would would want to reverse their combat levels from 138 back to 126 when the increased combat level was the craze at that time?

[Unknown_Warrior]

Why it's difficult to understand? Herblore aid to combat, it should have a combat level.

 

If it doesn't gives you a combat level then it shouldn't be on PVP, period.

 

Fishing? we should exclude all food

In fact exclude arrows and runes, runecrafting and fletching don't add to your combat.. etc.

They're all tradable though. :wall: You can't fletch crystal bolts at level 99 that are untradable and hit 70s. :P

 

Why shouldn't we be able to? What most of these kind of skills do these days is cost money and offer virtually nothing at higher levels. Why should I spend 25M on 90 Smithing (DFS) if I can just Req Assist someone who has it? Why should I smith in the first place?

Same goes for Fletching, Cooking, Herblore (yet again), Crafting and Firemaking (to some extent). Runecrafting is the only production skill exempt from this.

 

The only reward from these skills are the extra total levels and a cape at the end. Is this seriously a proper reward for skills that can cost 2-5M (Fletch/Cook), 35-80M (Craft/Smith), 100M+ (Herblore)?

[bedman]

Even thought I don't pk, this is a disgrace to every well balanced account. I can't agree more with everyone else here. On top of that, removing it from minigames too is just plain ... inexplicable.

 

Okay, mage pots were a huge difference, and like other's have said, a mid lvl potion, making spells hit 25% more might not be a bid idea. Point is, the update could have used a bit of rebalancing, but completely removing it from any pvp, and giving in to all the whiners, sad...

 

Lol on the link to the rsof post: even a forum mod didn't get the sarcasm.

[burquedout]

I don't PK often and my herblore isn't high enough by any means for me to be even close to making any of these pots, and I think taking them from PVP was ridiculous. It's the exact same thing as needing a quest for an item, such as barrows gloves or dragon weapons. It's also like the imbued rings. You have to get your levels up and put in the time and effort in order to purchase (in this case make) the items you want to use. As for the argument that with barrows gloves and rings etc. that you are risking those items so it's different, that's absurd it's the same thing here. These pots have an over 10k value each (I would think) and you risk losing the extra doses, and while not as pricey as losing a barrows glove or a d scimmy you don't have to do those quests over again to get a new one. They are one time things just like raising your level (in fact to get those quests done you need to raise non combat skills). The only reason people are whining is because they are too lazy to get there levels up, the only way this should ever be considered a combat skill (absurd) is if you also counted QP as a combat skill.

 

Given that they would probably get rid of a lot of complaining if (when) they incorporate lower level untradeable potions. Or make these untradeable potions rare drops from some new monster (but it would have to be really rare), but it would probably be a high level slayer monster and that would then mean that slayer would need to be added to the combat level to appease the lazy people. Personally I think they will make lower level untradeable potions and also start making untradeable stuff from other skills too, at least I hope they do.

[Will H]

I hope that this is not going to be the end of the matter. If it means potting up increases your combat level to reflect your increased stats, then that's fine. It's not a bad thing to make Herblore a minor combat skill, because so much high level combat involves potions anyway. If we see some untradable high level food (which I assume will boost HP above base level), then further changes need to be made to the combat level system involving cooking, and so on. We can't keep combat levels going by the same system all the time if the characters they are measuring are changing so much.

 

All processing skills (at least) should benefit combat, we are going in the wrong direction if we start excluding features from one part of the game and not the other. Maybe it would make more sense if more skills recieved similar updates? A balanced PKer with high so called non-combat skills deserves to have an advantage over another PKer with equal combat skills but very little non-combat skills.

[NukeMarine]

Combat levels only have true merit when the following situation occurs: The player has no weapons, armor, food, prayer points, potions. At that point, a player's combat level represents that of a monster's combat level. A level 100 with food, potions, weapons, armor will be more than able to take down level 300 boss monsters.

 

We've known this for almost 8 years. It's the very thing that pures began to exploit when combat levels were used to narrow down who you could attack. With high attack and strength but no def or prayer (or magic or range in RQC case), you had a low combat but could wield higher level weapons. Reason being, by merit of a SKILL, you could be more accurate and deal more damage thanks to a weapon that a similar combat level could not wield. You gained higher Str and Atk via a weapon which should mean a higher combat level but did not gain combat level.

 

We have food, that gives you more hitpoints than one without, yet does not affect combat level. We have potions, that gives more levels than one with, yet does not affect combat level. Same with armor, prayer, quests and skill levels that gives access to unique weapons and spells.

 

Just to nerf one high level aspect of the game just because it adds to one's attack potential is missing the forest for the trees. It's always, always been that way.

 

To be honest, yesterday I thought Jagex hit on something. Imagine that being high in one skill (firemaking, agility, herblore) gave a high level benefit to other skills (smithing, attack, prayer, magic, etc.). Yet, without a week of waiting, they removed what could have revolutionized PvP and Skilling and Combat.

 

I'll be honest, yesterday I thought we were going to see Player made armor and weapons that could not be traded. So those with high level skills could dominate in combat cause only they had access. Untradable runes that performed high level Magic. Untradable logs (spirit trees?) that made untradable bows and arrows doing amazing damage.

 

Sadly no. Jagex flinched.

[D Jay99]

I'm sorry for all you pvp'ers out there, but I actually really like how they made the potions unusable in pvp. It just means supplies to train herblore will be buyable again sooner, which in turn means I'll be able to get 90/92/95 (idk if overload is worth getting yet and if I want to stew/greenmans ale every time I need extreme range pots) sooner! So yeah, I think this was a pretty good move (at least for me).

[Slayer_Jesse]

I'm sorry for all you pvp'ers out there, but I actually really like how they made the potions unusable in pvp. It just means supplies to train herblore will be buyable again sooner, which in turn means I'll be able to get 90/92/95 (idk if overload is worth getting yet and if I want to stew/greenmans ale every time I need extreme range pots) sooner! So yeah, I think this was a pretty good move.

gee, how wonderfully selfless of yourself! :roll:

[D Jay99]

I'm sorry for all you pvp'ers out there, but I actually really like how they made the potions unusable in pvp. It just means supplies to train herblore will be buyable again sooner, which in turn means I'll be able to get 90/92/95 (idk if overload is worth getting yet and if I want to stew/greenmans ale every time I need extreme range pots) sooner! So yeah, I think this was a pretty good move.

gee, how wonderfully selfless of yourself! :roll:

Yeah, I totally feel that way too. But honestly, how many of the people who are getting all worked up about jagex giving in to the pvpers, who couldn't be bothered to train herblore just to have an advantage, would have actually trained their herblore level to use it in pvp or would even have lost to other pkers who did train herblore? Not that many I'd say. Everyone is acting like it affects them personally, but in reality the 'nerf' only affected a fairly small number of people.

 

And of course, you can dislike how jagex handled this and gave in to the players again, but that's nothing new. I personally don't see why there is such a big fuss about this update.

[gongusan]

I can't believe it. The majority of reactions to the new update were positive on tip.it. That should say enough. The core of players liked the update.

L[]l

 

loads of pvpers on tif amirite??

[oropher]

I'm sorry for all you pvp'ers out there, but I actually really like how they made the potions unusable in pvp. It just means supplies to train herblore will be buyable again sooner, which in turn means I'll be able to get 90/92/95 (idk if overload is worth getting yet and if I want to stew/greenmans ale every time I need extreme range pots) sooner! So yeah, I think this was a pretty good move (at least for me).

 

Too bad overload is worthless now. It was clearly a potion made for hybrids in a pvp situation ...

[D Jay99]

I'm sorry for all you pvp'ers out there, but I actually really like how they made the potions unusable in pvp. It just means supplies to train herblore will be buyable again sooner, which in turn means I'll be able to get 90/92/95 (idk if overload is worth getting yet and if I want to stew/greenmans ale every time I need extreme range pots) sooner! So yeah, I think this was a pretty good move (at least for me).

 

Too bad overload is worthless now. It was clearly a potion made for hybrids in a pvp situation ...

Wouldn't it still be pretty useful at tds/dks, where you use both range/melee? It would make brews easier to use too I guess.

[gongusan]

I'm sorry for all you pvp'ers out there, but I actually really like how they made the potions unusable in pvp. It just means supplies to train herblore will be buyable again sooner, which in turn means I'll be able to get 90/92/95 (idk if overload is worth getting yet and if I want to stew/greenmans ale every time I need extreme range pots) sooner! So yeah, I think this was a pretty good move (at least for me).

 

Too bad overload is worthless now. It was clearly a potion made for hybrids in a pvp situation ...

overpowered as hell in that situation lol.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I can't believe it. The majority of reactions to the new update were positive on tip.it. That should say enough. The core of players liked the update.

L[]l

 

loads of pvpers on tif amirite??

 

Maybe you've got a point. There aren't as many PKers here on TIF. But at the very least, in order to appease the whiny opinionated PKers, they could've barred them from BH, and at least kept them in safe minigames. Seriously now...