Cash is Junk

[burquedout]

It's a combination of things causing the problem. PVP artifacts giving large cash influxes are a big source of inflation. GE caps create the problem where you can't pay enough coins to buy things. The objects are worth more (or sometimes less) then the system lets you pay. I don't see the need for caps, they don't stop real world trading the GE is anonymous you can't choose who you buy or sell to. Why can't you set a price and when someone offers that price or more it sells to them for the price you put. Getting rid of caps would mean that we could pay what the price should be, it won't fix the inflation but I would imagine it would make everything more stable.

[Panzerlord]

I just thought of a genius sink that may affect every single runescape player

 

REMOVE GRAVESTONES!

 

If this happens then people will lose items boss hunting or be more relectuant to go, generating less hilts and whatnot.

[Great_one]

I just thought of a genius sink that may affect every single runescape player

 

REMOVE GRAVESTONES!

 

If this happens then people will lose items boss hunting or be more relectuant to go, generating less hilts and whatnot.

So inflation goes up more and your gp is worth less. You are going the wrong way.

[Golvellius]

[hide]

Can an economy survive and thrive if nobody wants to use cash? I doubt it.

 

You live in one right now, most likely. When was the last time you paid with cash, when you had the option to pay with your debit card? It's a similar situation, where the concept of cash is still the backbone of the economy, but the demand is for the item, not the wealth. And like you've touched on, it's because they made cash so easy to obtain.

 

Though I do have to chuckle when so many people say, "It's 76king oh no!" Yes, it's that. But there are also many, many other methods that pump cash into our wallets with absolutely no effort. What about Fruit Falling at the duel arena? Flipping items via the grand exchange? Merching clans as a whole? And all the various other little get-rich quick schemes that, bit by bit, aren't too devastating, but when you add them all together...76k'ing is only a slice of the troubling pie that is the failing short term economy.

I know this has already been said but I'd like to emphasize the point.

 

There were 3(4) main ways of creating gp.

1. Killing a monster for a pure gp drop

2. Selling an item to a shop

3. Alching items

(4. Coinshare)

 

1. There aren't any big pure gp drops

2. This is equal or lower then the alch value

3. The value never changes so the players balance out the ingredients prices.

(4. This is arguble, but it creates pure gp as a drop, but keeps the item in the ge for a player this GE price is created by the player.)

 

Over time all the above have been balanced out by players based on there usability and rarity.

 

In your example papaya and other fruits are only worth 1 of 3 things; there shop price, there high alch price or the price a player is willing to pay.

When your fruit falling your merely creating its high alch value 38gp nothing more, but possibly less. This is the amount entering the game, however in this example its also balancing the loss a player makes in creating the scrolls in the first place.

 

PvP in its current form came along and removed any player based balancing out of the game. You always get the same amount for a drop its in essence pure gp.

 

Before the economy used to be like so.

alches+monster gp+shop sales(+coinshare)<=sink holes

 

Now

PvP drops+alches+monster gp+shop sales(+coinshare)>sink holes

 

The solution is simple remove the PvP drops.

However I have a gut feeling Jagex is doing this to extend the life of the game. By pumping gp into the ecomony there increasing the time frame in which the gp in the game hits the same level as the items high alch value.

 

Sounds silly, but whips used to be about 3m, before the inflation they were close to 1m and this inflation has propped it back up.

[/hide]

 

Actually; Coinshare does not create GP, but it gives you cash according to the current Low end of the price range, and puts the item for MID on the GE, meaning it actually removes 5% of the cash...

 

A money maker you forgot is Thieving, which brings instant GP to the game, but I suppose they can fall under monster drops...

 

Spot on with the equation though :)

 

Wrong.

You drop hilt.

Game creates gp equal to lowest value and gives you in exchange.

No questions asked, no supply and demand, nobody has to buy.

 

Now next step.

Somebody wants to buy hilt in GE.

They put cash in low at value you got from game.

They can't get it at that value.

So they have to put money in at mid.

Market is fixed at mid thanks to coinshare.

 

You drop second hilt you get lowest value in GE but since market is fixed it hasn't moved since the last drop.

You have in essence gained 5% out of nowhere because the true market value should have been adjusted with the first transaction.

 

In the game, hilts at unreasonable prices were coinshared, nobody bought them for months.

They sat like rocks at unrealistic prices until the runescape economy inflated to the point were the falsly assigned values were moveable.

Every hilt dropped that didn't see a reduction in market value added to this inflation.

Its inflation of value.

And inflation of value in a system where money can be created out of thin air based on that value most certainly leads to inflation of everything.

 

End of story, end of runescape as playable for people who like to make money on skills and then spend on combat for fun.

[Ts_Stormrage]

No, I am afraid you are wrong and need to consult the Knowledge base again;

 

If dropped;

Item is coinshared for a total of X gp (which is low end price on GE), and item itself is now for sale on current mid price...

Someone buys said item at mid price, which removed Y ammount of cash form the game...

 

X is generated (low GE value) and Y is removed form the game (mid GE value)...

 

This, and adding one of the items to the game, actually causes DEFLATION (less gp, more items)

 

Everything else you say about noone buying at low prices is just ridiculous and redundant...

[la la la]

I think our main problem in this is the pvp loots atm.

 

I really liked the idea where the max loot you can get is the max loot someone was carrying. As in, if someone died with 76k, the max drop you could get would be 76k.

 

If you don't agree with me about 76king, then look at the graphs of items. Prices have risen out of control ever since the pvp update.

Coins are still generated with your stipulations. If someone is pked with a whip and drops 3.3m cash, that 3.3m cash is essentially created because whips are only alchable for 60k.

[Silver_Corner]

Im not really sure what the guy above you was trying to state stormrage.

 

But technically speaking, CS still "creates" GP. The only difference is over the long term it also "removes" more GP than it created in the first place, however the removal is not always instant, so in that case you have to account that it can still create GP.

 

Quick Example: Jagex states AGS special is changed to 55%.

 

At this point, everyone would be dumping AGS making the item unsellable, even on minimum for most players. A duo team goes up and gets a Armadyl hilt split for 50m each. Now the Hilt is stuck on the GE for medium price, as the price is falling and nobody is buying.

 

The price contiues to fall until the AGS rebounds at 80m. Now a player buys the hilt that was created in GE for medium for 80m GP. At this point we can say since the item was purchased from 80m GP from GE and 100m was crated to players many weeks ago, that the game actually produced 20m gold.

 

While this is a rare occasion, it certainly can happen, uhshally just on smaller scales. But you cant rule CS out completly as a GP maker as it does have the potential to make GP inflate.

 

That being said, a simple solution still would be to replace Icon drops in PvP with items of some sort. Item drops do not produce infaltion as you have descibed before.

[Slayer_Jesse]

Ok, lets go back and see how we got here in the first place. Pkers complained that pvp loot dropped too much unsellable junk (I too found this to be the case.) Also, certain high value boss drops were being dropped, causing those items to crash. So jagex took said items out, and replaced with artifacts that you can sell for cash. This would have been fine and dandy if you could only get these from normal pking, but with 76k'ing, the system has broke. as of now i see a few solutions...

 

One, Make non degrading versions of the current pvp equipment that's somewhat weaker and has higher requirements (say 85 across the board) It would only have 1 spec, and you can only use on pvp worlds.

Two, Re-Instate the Original system with fewer junk items.

Three, Scale the value needed to risk to your combat level. Do not let cash be added to that value either. (if you are low def, this value is higher than it would normally be.)

Four, Add an activity bar to the wildy (not my idea, but a good one.) Only gain ep while fighting or skilling. (alching doesn't count.)

Four, part B: You must be in atleast lvl 5 wildy to gain ep.

Five, You should only receive a (decent) drop if your opponent tries to defend themselves.

[Panzerlord]

I don't understand how removing gravestone would increase inflation tbh

[Golvellius]

Im not really sure what the guy above you was trying to state stormrage.

 

But technically speaking, CS still "creates" GP. The only difference is over the long term it also "removes" more GP than it created in the first place, however the removal is not always instant, so in that case you have to account that it can still create GP.

 

Quick Example: Jagex states AGS special is changed to 55%.

 

At this point, everyone would be dumping AGS making the item unsellable, even on minimum for most players. A duo team goes up and gets a Armadyl hilt split for 50m each. Now the Hilt is stuck on the GE for medium price, as the price is falling and nobody is buying.

 

The price contiues to fall until the AGS rebounds at 80m. Now a player buys the hilt that was created in GE for medium for 80m GP. At this point we can say since the item was purchased from 80m GP from GE and 100m was crated to players many weeks ago, that the game actually produced 20m gold.

 

While this is a rare occasion, it certainly can happen, uhshally just on smaller scales. But you cant rule CS out completly as a GP maker as it does have the potential to make GP inflate.

 

That being said, a simple solution still would be to replace Icon drops in PvP with items of some sort. Item drops do not produce infaltion as you have descibed before.

 

You kinda get it.

There was 4 months of free gifts when the GE was first implemented.

All the godwars stuff especially godswords was frozen at min for like 4 months.

I had a saragodsword on the GE that whole time.

That was more than enough time for prices across the board to inflate.

Then they repeated themselves at the end of the year with spirit shields.

 

A simple solution would be IOUs from the bank of runescape.

When the hilt is sold, you get what was paid for it.

Its as simple as that.

 

Instead, Jagex decided to get clueless and redesigned their game in such a way that monster hunting on coinshare makes insane amount of money over everything else to the point of making most things pointless in runescape.

I'm glad that 26king/76king has taken off.

At least now there are two ways to make money.

Too bad they demoted skills to just quest reqs and a skillcape.

The recent herblore updates more than prove that.

[Jaded]

This is why I stopped playing Diablo (on top of the dupes).

 

They should take a page out of Diablo II and introduce gambling for items as a cash sink.

[Soma2035]

This is why I stopped playing Diablo (on top of the dupes).

 

They should take a page out of Diablo II and introduce gambling for items as a cash sink.

 

Actually, a lot of trading in Diablo II takes place on a third party website called d2jsp. The website has its own currency tied to you forum accounts, known as Forum Gold or FG. And FG enters circulation by, you guessed it, people paying the website owner real money for it.

[glasscube]

This is why I stopped playing Diablo (on top of the dupes).

 

They should take a page out of Diablo II and introduce gambling for items as a cash sink.

 

Actually, a lot of trading in Diablo II takes place on a third party website called d2jsp. The website has its own currency tied to you forum accounts, known as Forum Gold or FG. And FG enters circulation by, you guessed it, people paying the website owner real money for it.

Lol no. In Diablo II on ladder people use Stone Of Jordans as currency and 3/20/20's on non-ladder. Or atleast they did. The two very big differences though is that the GE controls the price of items.

[Soma2035]

This is why I stopped playing Diablo (on top of the dupes).

 

They should take a page out of Diablo II and introduce gambling for items as a cash sink.

 

Actually, a lot of trading in Diablo II takes place on a third party website called d2jsp. The website has its own currency tied to you forum accounts, known as Forum Gold or FG. And FG enters circulation by, you guessed it, people paying the website owner real money for it.

Lol no. In Diablo II on ladder people use Stone Of Jordans as currency and 3/20/20's on non-ladder. Or atleast they did. The two very big differences though is that the GE controls the price of items.

 

They did. Unfortunately, trading on battle.net is a thing of the past, more or less.

 

At the time I'm making this post, there are over 150 people on the US-East Ladder trading forum of d2jsp, and 100 more people on the US-East Non-Ladder trading forum.

 

There are 35 people in the battle.net trading chatrooms for US-East Ladder.

 

Keep in mind that this is being written at 4 AM in the morning, local time for that region.

 

The trade limitations will do a lot to hinder trading. However, keep in mind that the crashing prices are already spurring RWT. Need a Bandos Chestplate but no one will sell it for cash? There are plenty of forums where someone would be happy to sell you it mid-price. If you send them $10 via paypal right after. Can't afford to find junk? Get compensated in USD or Euros when selling your item for mid price instead.

 

Runescape's ecoenomy is an utter disaster right now... the trade limits, the holy grail of ending RWT, was only half of what it was made out to be - it stopped botters and gold farmers in their tracks, but actively encourages players to engage in RWT.

[Punitive_D]

monster hunting on coinshare makes insane amount of money over everything else to the point of making most things pointless in runescape.

I'm glad that 26king/76king has taken off.

At least now there are two ways to make money.

 

The problem with your equating coinshare with 76k is this -- boss hunting in gwd can't be done by everyone, at least no effectively. So you don't have newbs making "insane amounts of money." In fact, anyone who makes big money boss hunting on coinshare can make big money in a number of different ways. Anyone can 76k, and that's why it brings so much more money into the game.

[cookiestealer222]

This is why I stopped playing Diablo (on top of the dupes).

 

They should take a page out of Diablo II and introduce gambling for items as a cash sink.

 

Actually, a lot of trading in Diablo II takes place on a third party website called d2jsp. The website has its own currency tied to you forum accounts, known as Forum Gold or FG. And FG enters circulation by, you guessed it, people paying the website owner real money for it.

Lol no. In Diablo II on ladder people use Stone Of Jordans as currency and 3/20/20's on non-ladder. Or atleast they did. The two very big differences though is that the GE controls the price of items.

 

They did. Unfortunately, trading on battle.net is a thing of the past, more or less.

 

At the time I'm making this post, there are over 150 people on the US-East Ladder trading forum of d2jsp, and 100 more people on the US-East Non-Ladder trading forum.

 

There are 35 people in the battle.net trading chatrooms for US-East Ladder.

 

Keep in mind that this is being written at 4 AM in the morning, local time for that region.

 

The trade limitations will do a lot to hinder trading. However, keep in mind that the crashing prices are already spurring RWT. Need a Bandos Chestplate but no one will sell it for cash? There are plenty of forums where someone would be happy to sell you it mid-price. If you send them $10 via paypal right after. Can't afford to find junk? Get compensated in USD or Euros when selling your item for mid price instead.

 

Runescape's ecoenomy is an utter disaster right now... the trade limits, the holy grail of ending RWT, was only half of what it was made out to be - it stopped botters and gold farmers in their tracks, but actively encourages players to engage in RWT.

not to promote another website, but d2jsp does have a Runescape forum that pretty much breaks every rule in the book...

[dusky]

76king isn't the only problem. It's pvp in general, the reason is because the value of the drop ofter exceeds what the other player was risking.

[noble_aloof]

the economy is really going downhill.. i sold my fury/ring of stone/bss over the past week for huge profits. my net worth is somewhere around 16mil now but i'm hoping for some of these items to crash so i can buy them back.

[Kalafai]

New skill: Whining.

 

Everyone starts at level 70, as that's what the mods already see as our average level.

 

Seriously, the vials are still going in, just wait a day or a week. The larger sellers probably still have the annoying hourglass telling them their stuff is asleep.

[Myweponsg00d]

The prices on all items are rising at ridiculous rates...

 

This means that more gp is needed to equate to the "value" of an item. This means cash is less valuable then before. Why is this happening? Because there is more cash in the system.

 

Not really that hard to understand, people.

 

And it is causing some serious rises in price.....something really needs to be done.

[sciencemile]

I got an idea! How about sales tax on G.E. purchases? For every 1% value of the items you're buying (rounded down), that amount is added to the list price, and that amount is "taxed" (taken out of the game). Same with selling an item, you get 1% less back.

 

Constant money-drain proportional to the amount of gold being thrown around, and gives a slight incentive for people to trade off the G.E. if the item is high-ticket.

 

For example, according to the GE:

 

4,900,000 units of Green Dragonleather was bought and sold today at the average price of 1,938 gp. This means a total of 9,496,200,000 gp was exchanged. At a 1% Tax on both Consumer and Supplier, this would amount to a total of 38 gp per unit being taken out of the currency, and 186,200,000 gp would be drained in total for that day.

 

If you aggregate all items, this becomes a very effective drain. Perhaps too effective, and we might have to lower the percentage.

[strilmus]

While this would reduce the money of everybody, I'm not sure if it would happen proportionately to the effect that it would just jack prices up because people have to raise them higher in order to make the amount of money that they want to the point where the tax becomes meaningless because it's the PEOPLE that dictate the actual supply of money through their efforts. Plus, the tax would never be able to do it by itself. The money sucking measures would have to be introduced in a collector's set.

[sciencemile]

It wouldn't cure inflation by reducing the amount of currency? That's what causes inflation, an increase in the amount of money relative to the quantity of goods provided. You have more money to spend, so you can generate more demand by offering more money for a service, thus driving the price up. With less money you can't bid as high, and the price goes down.

[strilmus]

To simply what I was saying, it's not that it won't remove currency, it's that people will start trying to create MORE money to keep up. A tax is only a temporary fix to a much larger economical imbalance.

[Cantristenon]

Very good points in this thread.

 

That's one of the reasons why I always try to have only under 10m wealth in coins and everything else in various items (I don't merch actively). Everything is going up so it's best thing just to keep them.. at least until they fix that inflation problem (if they do that, I wish they do).

 

When you are suggesting how to fix inflation, keep in mind that also heavily deflating prices would be a bad problem too. No one would like to see their net value going down no matter what they do. What if you couldn't sell anything for cash because no one would be buying. For sure this would happen if they stop pure cash drops in pvp and add a huge sinkhole that would be useful to use (MTK is good example). People like using gp sinks that make their net wealth go up. Of course they have to be careful not to make them too good so they would replace other ways to obtain items.

 

In my opinion the best way to replace cash drops is to give pvp so good unique item drops that there would be no need for other drops. Of course they should also stop 76king to prevent people massproducing them. Not sure if current items there are are enough but nothing stops them introducing new items, also some nondegradable (they would have a huge demand in pve side of the game).