12-Apr-2010 - Dungeoneering Skill!

[langer]

I'll try a couple solo rounds before trying it with friends, then will probably wait for some CC's to open up.

[qeltar]

If your Slayer skill involves banking all your favourite equipment and inventory items in order to enter instanced slayer locations, using non-tradeable (but cool looking) armours, weapons, food, potions and summoning pouches to kill the monsters, and you don't get loot nor slayer EXP from the monsters directly except more non-tradeable food/potion to sustain your trip, but you get TOKENS based on how fast you took and average damage, and then you trade for EXP and abyssal whips which would be non-tradeable again, and returning all the non-tradeable equipment back once you're done..... :mellow:

 

Talk about poor integration with other skill resources and draconian rules imposed to 'prevent' imbalance in the game.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head.

 

I think a lot of oldtimers are going to quit after seeing this -- probably myself included. Not out of outrage or anger, just because it is crystal clear that Jagex is taking RS in a direction very far from why many of us used to play it. The rewards from this "skill" are powerful enough that you'll be at a significant disadvantage if you don't get them, but the idea of spending several hundred hours in that hellhole -- especially "teamed" with groups of random morons -- is far more terrifying than any boss.

[Sister Nicci]

If your Slayer skill involves banking all your favourite equipment and inventory items in order to enter instanced slayer locations, using non-tradeable (but cool looking) armours, weapons, food, potions and summoning pouches to kill the monsters, and you don't get loot nor slayer EXP from the monsters directly except more non-tradeable food/potion to sustain your trip, but you get TOKENS based on how fast you took and average damage, and then you trade for EXP and abyssal whips which would be non-tradeable again, and returning all the non-tradeable equipment back once you're done..... :mellow:

 

Talk about poor integration with other skill resources and draconian rules imposed to 'prevent' imbalance in the game.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head.

 

I think a lot of oldtimers are going to quit after seeing this -- probably myself included. Not out of outrage or anger, just because it is crystal clear that Jagex is taking RS in a direction very far from why many of us used to play it. The rewards from this "skill" are powerful enough that you'll be at a significant disadvantage if you don't get them, but the idea of spending several hundred hours in that hellhole -- especially "teamed" with groups of random morons -- is far more terrifying than any boss.

 

 

 

I can agree with that, most certainly.

[DarkDude]

So far it's slower to train than summoning was (took me 5 hours to get to 30) and it's been out for over 5 hours now.

 

If no one gets to 30 in the next hour or two then it's certainly slower.

[langer]

If your Slayer skill involves banking all your favourite equipment and inventory items in order to enter instanced slayer locations, using non-tradeable (but cool looking) armours, weapons, food, potions and summoning pouches to kill the monsters, and you don't get loot nor slayer EXP from the monsters directly except more non-tradeable food/potion to sustain your trip, but you get TOKENS based on how fast you took and average damage, and then you trade for EXP and abyssal whips which would be non-tradeable again, and returning all the non-tradeable equipment back once you're done..... :mellow:

 

Talk about poor integration with other skill resources and draconian rules imposed to 'prevent' imbalance in the game.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head.

 

I think a lot of oldtimers are going to quit after seeing this -- probably myself included. Not out of outrage or anger, just because it is crystal clear that Jagex is taking RS in a direction very far from why many of us used to play it. The rewards from this "skill" are powerful enough that you'll be at a significant disadvantage if you don't get them, but the idea of spending several hundred hours in that hellhole -- especially "teamed" with groups of random morons -- is far more terrifying than any boss.

 

I haven't tried it yet, but is it really that bad?

 

I assume I'll never like some skills, but a skill combining every skills should appeal to me.

[Guthorm]

What they need to do is make it not a skill. It's a minigame, everything in how it functions pushes it that way. Reward tokens? That's a minigame concept. Team play? Once again, minigame concept. A single training area? Minigame. Using all other skills, both combat and non-combat, to progress? Yep... minigame.

 

Sure, what is slayer? Some dude tell you to kill X of Y, what is that? A fetch quest, does it stop the skill becomes the most popular? No. The question here is not if is a skill or minigame, the question should more be is it FUN.

 

No, as a matter of fact, I don't think it's fun at all. Not as a skill, anyway. The experience gains are based on the overall performance of the entire team, leaving your experience gains at the mercy of others. That is no way for a skill to function. Slayer makes sense in the way it's set up, you get experience by what you kill. What you kill. Not by what someone else kills.

 

 

Also, what the hell does this mean? -> "A fetch quest, does it stop the skill becomes the most popular?" <- That sentence makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

I was trying to say that slayer is similar to fetch quests as to dungeoneering is similar to raiding. So why is slayer popular when dungeoneering is destined to fail when the two concepts(fetch quest/raiding) have been around in countless MMOs? Do people dislike raiding?

 

I see your problem is that the skill is based around group activities, therefore leaving your exp rate in mercy of other players. There are ways around this, Jagex could do what Guild Wars did and implement a henchmen option, have NPCs replace players, or you can join a clan. Group skill is a new concept, and hey you might like it after sometime trying.

[qeltar]

It would be unreasonable to say generically that it's "bad". I'll just say it's "bad for *me*".

[Clan_Chat_Op]

I refuse to read 12 pages of topic, so tell me if this was already mentioned but...

Wasn't this skill promised like in 2006?

 

There was a "what to expect this year" with "group quests" and "unique quests" in which the quest is dynamically made on the spot?

 

I'm sure you hardcore people can find the post... it was made on a Jan 1 back when they use to do that stuff.

[The Dark Lord]

I stand corrected. There is a solo option.

[Guthorm]

I stand corrected. There is a solo option.

 

The question here is how viable it is in the long run. IF it is, then I think players like Qeltar and Saliris would have nothing to worry about as they can train the skill by themselves.

[Sister Nicci]

I was trying to say that slayer is similar to fetch quests as to dungeoneering is similar to raiding. So why is slayer popular when dungeoneering is destined to fail when the two concepts(fetch quest/raiding) have been around in countless MMOs? Do people dislike raiding?

 

I see your problem is that the skill is based around group activities, therefore leaving your exp rate in mercy of other players. There are ways around this, Jagex could do what Guild Wars did and implement a henchmen option, have NPCs replace players, or you can join a clan. Group skill is a new concept, and hey you might like it after sometime trying.

 

I did try it. I tortured myself with this horror for three hours, and I got a whole five levels for my time. And ten tokens.

 

As for raiding.. It should not have been a skill in itself, as it requires the usage of other skills. Once again, that whole bit fits in the category of a minigame, not a skill.

 

Slayer: You kill a specific of a specific monster.

Woodcutting: You chop trees.

Fishing: You fish.

Cooking: You cook various types of food.

Runecrafting: You craft runes.

Mining: You mine ores.

Smithing: You smelt ores into bars, and/or smith bars into equipment.

Fletching: You make bows and/or arrows.

(I'm sure you get what I'm pointing out here)

 

Dungeoneering: You do all of the above and more for piddly amounts of experience based on the whole group instead of your own skills.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Personally I think it's bad as well as *bad for me.* This is rather lame IMO.

[qeltar]

MHL: Calling this "lame" is simplistic. It is a very large piece of content, and it's clear that a lot of work has gone into it.

 

It's not for you, and it's not for me. But as the old saying goes: "For those that like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing that they like."

[Sister Nicci]

If there is a solo option, the pathetic excuse for a tutorial said nothing about it, and I didn't see anything about it in the KB.

 

Oh, and that's another thing... skills don't have tutorials. Minigames do. Soul Wars, Castle Wars, Stealing Creation, Barbarian Assault, etc.

[Punitive_D]

Personally I think it's bad as well as *bad for me.* This is rather lame IMO.

 

I haven't had a chance to try it yet. What did you like least about it? Was there anything that you did like?

 

I know this question probably already has been answered, but when you fight, etc, in these dungeons, do you get combat/cooking/crafting xp?

[The Dark Lord]

It should not have been a skill in itself, as it requires the usage of other skills.

 

To be fair, skills such as slayer require other skills (combat). This can be considered a third/fourth/fifth tier skill. However, I do agree with you. This is much more like an elaborate minigame. Jagex dug a hole for themselves when they promised to release a new skill and instead released a huge minigame and called it a skill. If they started to call it an Activity, the negative feedback would be much higher since people want it to be called a skill because a new skill sounds like an epic update.

 

Dungeoneering has a lot of potential, nonetheless. There are some obvious things that Jagex can do to improve it, but it's something that people currently know very little about; it's unfair to judge it right now.

[Guthorm]

[hide]

I did try it. I tortured myself with this horror for three hours, and I got a whole five levels for my time. And ten tokens.

 

As for raiding.. It should not have been a skill in itself, as it requires the usage of other skills. Once again, that whole bit fits in the category of a minigame, not a skill.

 

Slayer: You kill a specific of a specific monster.

Woodcutting: You chop trees.

Fishing: You fish.

Cooking: You cook various types of food.

Runecrafting: You craft runes.

Mining: You mine ores.

Smithing: You smelt ores into bars, and/or smith bars into equipment.

Fletching: You make bows and/or arrows.

(I'm sure you get what I'm pointing out here)

 

Dungeoneering: You do all of the above and more for piddly amounts of experience based on the whole group instead of your own skills.

[/hide]

 

So you dislike it because you have to relay on others. Sure some people are just no team players, I understand that, but there is a solo option, the question right now is how viable is it?

 

@Punitive, Yes you receive exp for everything you do.

[Sister Nicci]

MHL: Calling this "lame" is simplistic. It is a very large piece of content, and it's clear that a lot of work has gone into it.

 

It's not for you, and it's not for me. But as the old saying goes: "For those that like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing that they like."

 

I'm not saying that the whole concept is "lame". Dungeoneering would have been awesome if it was a minigame instead. But, as a skill... for those who don't like it as a skill (which, if you take a look at the RSOF, there are more than a few of us), we have to have our overall skill totals suffer because of it.

[WoodBowl]

Oh, and that's another thing... skills don't have tutorials. Minigames do. Soul Wars, Castle Wars, Stealing Creation, Barbarian Assault, etc.

 

Summoning comes to mind. Seeing as it was the most recent skill released before Dungeoneering, I'd say jagex is looking to start explaining all of their new skills.

[Zepheras]

If your Slayer skill involves banking all your favourite equipment and inventory items in order to enter instanced slayer locations, using non-tradeable (but cool looking) armours, weapons, food, potions and summoning pouches to kill the monsters, and you don't get loot nor slayer EXP from the monsters directly except more non-tradeable food/potion to sustain your trip, but you get TOKENS based on how fast you took and average damage, and then you trade for EXP and abyssal whips which would be non-tradeable again, and returning all the non-tradeable equipment back once you're done..... :mellow:

 

Talk about poor integration with other skill resources and draconian rules imposed to 'prevent' imbalance in the game.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head.

 

I think a lot of oldtimers are going to quit after seeing this -- probably myself included. Not out of outrage or anger, just because it is crystal clear that Jagex is taking RS in a direction very far from why many of us used to play it. The rewards from this "skill" are powerful enough that you'll be at a significant disadvantage if you don't get them, but the idea of spending several hundred hours in that hellhole -- especially "teamed" with groups of random morons -- is far more terrifying than any boss.

 

I haven't tried it yet, but is it really that bad?

 

I assume I'll never like some skills, but a skill combining every skills should appeal to me.

 

You will enjoy most of the elements. There's integration of high level skills within the boundaries of the dungeon, high level monsters, teamplay and/or solo play. However, to me it feels like having a beautiful dream and then returning to reality with some lackluster rewards compared to what you saw in the dream.

 

You're looking at a replica of almost every skill and skill resources within this one single skill, when they can just use the resources we had, from potions to food to armour. You're looking at a list of over 500 new items easily, some filling existing level gaps, some beyond the best of what we have, but only within the dungeon. You're looking at this mini-underground RuneScape world, that brings the real RuneScape world a few new level 80 gear that has nothing to do with what you saw and used in the dungeon.

 

I think what Jagex did was, they squeezed the actual RuneScape game under a compressor, replicated the compressed form, buried the mini replica underground, and from there a teeny weeny bit of new game addition grew out from the soil.

[Capone_Sabre]

If your Slayer skill involves banking all your favourite equipment and inventory items in order to enter instanced slayer locations, using non-tradeable (but cool looking) armours, weapons, food, potions and summoning pouches to kill the monsters, and you don't get loot nor slayer EXP from the monsters directly except more non-tradeable food/potion to sustain your trip, but you get TOKENS based on how fast you took and average damage, and then you trade for EXP and abyssal whips which would be non-tradeable again, and returning all the non-tradeable equipment back once you're done..... :mellow:

 

Talk about poor integration with other skill resources and draconian rules imposed to 'prevent' imbalance in the game.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head.

 

I think a lot of oldtimers are going to quit after seeing this -- probably myself included. Not out of outrage or anger, just because it is crystal clear that Jagex is taking RS in a direction very far from why many of us used to play it. The rewards from this "skill" are powerful enough that you'll be at a significant disadvantage if you don't get them, but the idea of spending several hundred hours in that hellhole -- especially "teamed" with groups of random morons -- is far more terrifying than any boss.

 

Yep, that definitely describes me. I've been playing this game for 9 years now but over the last couple of years Jagex has been taking the game in a direction that I don't like and I have played less and less. This is the final straw for me now. I'm not going to train this skill and as I'm not going to, training the other skills seems rather pointless (especially Slayer) as I will be at such a disadvantage. So that's the end of RS for me. It was fun while it lasted.

[Sister Nicci]

It should not have been a skill in itself, as it requires the usage of other skills.

 

To be fair, skills such as slayer require other skills (combat). This can be considered a third/fourth/fifth tier skill. However, I do agree with you. This is much more like an elaborate minigame. Jagex dug a hole for themselves when they promised to release a new skill and instead released a huge minigame and called it a skill. If they started to call it an Activity, the negative feedback would be much higher since people want it to be called a skill because a new skill sounds like an epic update.

 

Dungeoneering has a lot of potential, nonetheless. There are some obvious things that Jagex can do to improve it, but it's something that people currently know very little about; it's unfair to judge it right now.

 

Yes, it is true that Slayer requires combat skills. The difference, however, is the fact that the experience you gain in Slayer is based solely on your skills, what you do, not what the other players do. How would, say, mining, or fishing, or any other skill work, if your experience gain was reduced because the other people mining where you are at don't mine as fast as you?

 

Dungeoneering just does not work as a skill. That is my only problem with it. Everything else about it is awesome... but that one single flaw outweighs everything else for me.

[Punitive_D]

MHL: Calling this "lame" is simplistic. It is a very large piece of content, and it's clear that a lot of work has gone into it.

 

It's not for you, and it's not for me. But as the old saying goes: "For those that like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing that they like."

 

I'm not saying that the whole concept is "lame". Dungeoneering would have been awesome if it was a minigame instead. But, as a skill... for those who don't like it as a skill (which, if you take a look at the RSOF, there are more than a few of us), we have to have our overall skill totals suffer because of it.

 

Actually, since this thing apparently is super-slow to train, then you can focus on your other, faster-training skills, and actually get an ADVANTAGE over those who choose to pursue this skill. So now you're a big fan, right?

[Omali]

If there is a solo option, the pathetic excuse for a tutorial said nothing about it, and I didn't see anything about it in the KB.

 

It was pretty well established during the tutorial that if you wanted to play by yourself, create a party and just go into the dungeon by yourself.

 

I will admit, it is difficult to read instructions when your eyes are welled up with tears of rage.

[anonymouse_]

So far this update seems decent. Lvl 9 :thumbup: