= New Chaotic Items =

[Bladewing]

Longswords hit every 3 seconds, I know that for sure.

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/guid/combat_weapon_types

 

Ah yes you are correct, my mistake. However, the point still holds that the increase in accuracy of the longsword is small compared to the existing accuracy bonus.

 

I'm not worried about the prayer potion costs, I'm worried that they take inventory space. When soloing bosses, I like long trips - and long trips mean minimal inventory consumption per boss. This is why I personally prefer Ely over Divine.

 

Say you were to take 10,000 damage at a boss. Using an elysian, this would be cut down to 8250 damage. Using saradomin brews, you would need 55.55 doses to heal this damage, which takes 13.88 inventory spaces.

 

10,000 damage with divine would be cut down to 7,000 damage, and would consume 150 prayer points. 7000 damage, using saradomin brews would require 47.14 doses, which takes 11.79 spaces. 150 prayer points takes 4.84 doses of prayer potion, which takes 1.21 spaces of inventory. In total Divine would require 13 inventory spaces vs. Elysian's 13.88. So divine takes less space.

[ghjkl]

Maybe longsword would be better without defender.

If it isn't I am sad that Jagex yet again makes the faster weapon stronger in all circumstances.

[Mazhar]

[hide]

Longswords hit every 3 seconds, I know that for sure.

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/guid/combat_weapon_types

 

Ah yes you are correct, my mistake. However, the point still holds that the increase in accuracy of the longsword is small compared to the existing accuracy bonus.

 

I'm not worried about the prayer potion costs, I'm worried that they take inventory space. When soloing bosses, I like long trips - and long trips mean minimal inventory consumption per boss. This is why I personally prefer Ely over Divine.

 

Say you were to take 10,000 damage at a boss. Using an elysian, this would be cut down to 8250 damage. Using saradomin brews, you would need 55.55 doses to heal this damage, which takes 13.88 inventory spaces.

 

10,000 damage with divine would be cut down to 7,000 damage, and would consume 150 prayer points. 7000 damage, using saradomin brews would require 47.14 doses, which takes 11.79 spaces. 150 prayer points takes 4.84 doses of prayer potion, which takes 1.21 spaces of inventory. In total Divine would require 13 inventory spaces vs. Elysian's 13.88. So divine takes less space.

[/hide]

not to mention that divines make it nearly impossible to die if you know what you're doing, only place ely would be > divine is maybe tds and barrows

 

4= 3.0 seconds

5= 2.4 seconds

 

This is what I got from checking the max hit formulas

Rapier= 101

(((125)x1.32)+3)+13) + (143/8)+(143x(((125)x1.32)+3))/64)

181+ 17.875 + 375 = ~574

Longsword= 120

(((125)x1.32)+3)+13) + (162/8)+(162x(((125)x1.32)+3))/64)

181 + 20.25 + 425.25 = ~626

 

Rapier hits 91.6% of what longsword hits

 

After 3.6k seconds of combat (1 hour of combat) :

 

Rapier = 1.5k hits

Longsword = 1.2k hits

 

Every full hour of combat = 300 extra hits with rapier compared to longsword

574x1.5k= 861,000

626x1.2k= 751,200

(751,200/861,000) = Overall Longsword hits 87.24% of what Rapier does, aka 12.76% lower

 

On to accuracy...

yes some monsters will have less def so you will barely hit 0s on them, but that just means longsword manages to avoid those 0s more often

 

0.515x (125x125)= 8046

0.515x (171x125)= 11008

(8046/11008)= 73% of the hits that longsword does not miss, rapier would miss, making it miss 27% more

This is just a comparison, it does not mean you are going to miss 27% of the time

 

So in that 1 hour of combat..

 

Every full hour of combat = 1500x.27 = 405 hits missed with rapier compared to longsword

 

so that means in 1 hour of straight foward combat, rapier will hit ((1.5k-405)x574)= 628,530 in comparison to (1.2kx626)= 751,200

 

So overall.. (628,530/751,200), Longsword is 9% better than rapier

 

I used the formulas on RS wiki, not 100% reliable but I would say it seems reasonable

 

Note, this is for slash only, you could see how stab works out too, since the gab in attack bonuses isn't as great

 

this is assuming you have the following bonuses alongside your weapons

[brunokiller]

Buy list:

1. 
    
   
2. Stream necklace
   
3. Tome of frost
   
4. One of the shields if i still like it after above two.
   

[TheAncient]

[hide]

Longswords hit every 3 seconds, I know that for sure.

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/guid/combat_weapon_types

 

Ah yes you are correct, my mistake. However, the point still holds that the increase in accuracy of the longsword is small compared to the existing accuracy bonus.

 

I'm not worried about the prayer potion costs, I'm worried that they take inventory space. When soloing bosses, I like long trips - and long trips mean minimal inventory consumption per boss. This is why I personally prefer Ely over Divine.

 

Say you were to take 10,000 damage at a boss. Using an elysian, this would be cut down to 8250 damage. Using saradomin brews, you would need 55.55 doses to heal this damage, which takes 13.88 inventory spaces.

 

10,000 damage with divine would be cut down to 7,000 damage, and would consume 150 prayer points. 7000 damage, using saradomin brews would require 47.14 doses, which takes 11.79 spaces. 150 prayer points takes 4.84 doses of prayer potion, which takes 1.21 spaces of inventory. In total Divine would require 13 inventory spaces vs. Elysian's 13.88. So divine takes less space.

[/hide]

not to mention that divines make it nearly impossible to die if you know what you're doing, only place ely would be > divine is maybe tds and barrows

 

Except you can soul split or uni to heal, and those require very little inventory spaces.

 

Divine: Solo arma, solo bandos, PvP

Ely: Solo TDS, solo DK rex, solo DK hybrid

 

I prefer the latter bosses. I don't like solo GWD much.

 

So overall.. (628,530/751,200), Longsword is 9% better than rapier

Have you tried out using maul over longsword?

[Wkw]

You do realize that the rapier is going to be the BEST stab weapon in the game?

When fighting something that is weak vs stab and strong vs slash, it will be better then the longsowrd in DPS because of its accuracy.

 

Miths and steels are weak vs stab, so no contest that rapier will be better then the longsword..

 

Likewise, if they all had the same stats, same strength, and same speed, but the sword did slash, rapier did stab, and maul did crush, they would be better then the other when fighting something that is weak vs the style you will use..

[Obtaurian]

[hide]

Longswords hit every 3 seconds, I know that for sure.

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/guid/combat_weapon_types

 

Ah yes you are correct, my mistake. However, the point still holds that the increase in accuracy of the longsword is small compared to the existing accuracy bonus.

 

I'm not worried about the prayer potion costs, I'm worried that they take inventory space. When soloing bosses, I like long trips - and long trips mean minimal inventory consumption per boss. This is why I personally prefer Ely over Divine.

 

Say you were to take 10,000 damage at a boss. Using an elysian, this would be cut down to 8250 damage. Using saradomin brews, you would need 55.55 doses to heal this damage, which takes 13.88 inventory spaces.

 

10,000 damage with divine would be cut down to 7,000 damage, and would consume 150 prayer points. 7000 damage, using saradomin brews would require 47.14 doses, which takes 11.79 spaces. 150 prayer points takes 4.84 doses of prayer potion, which takes 1.21 spaces of inventory. In total Divine would require 13 inventory spaces vs. Elysian's 13.88. So divine takes less space.

[/hide]

not to mention that divines make it nearly impossible to die if you know what you're doing, only place ely would be > divine is maybe tds and barrows

 

Except you can soul split or uni to heal, and those require very little inventory spaces.

 

Divine: Solo arma, solo bandos, PvP

Ely: Solo TDS, solo DK rex, solo DK hybrid

 

I prefer the latter bosses. I don't like solo GWD much.

 

In almost all cases where you'd use an elysian or divine, divine wins. This doesn't apply in situations where a godsword or alternative shield might be preferable, which includes TDs (unless you're using a steel titan, in which case I would probably go with the elysian). It's debatable whether or not an elysian would be useful at DKs, as it would seem to me that it's yet another case of prayer determining how long you can last.

 

Feel free to prove me wrong, however, as I have very little experience at DKs.

[Wkw]

I'm going to compare them to whip/gs

 

Rapier is 94 STAB, 104 strength

Whip is 82 SLASH, 82 strength

 

Rapier wins versus anything weak to stab, because it is of the same speed as whip, higher accuracy, and higher strength.

Whip wins to anything weak to SLASH, because if same speed and higher accuracy.

But the difference is very negligible. Unless you are fighting something with a clear weakness (like waterfiends and their crush weakness) you wouldn't tell the difference.

BUT IF THE MONSTER DOES NOT HAVE THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STAB AND SLASH, rapier would win on slash because even though its accuracy is less (wouldn't matter if target has low def), its average hit would be higher because of the strength bonus.

When fighting high stab low slash monsters, whip > rapier

When fighting high slash low stab monsters, rapier > whip

When fighting low stab low slash, or high stab, low slash, low def monsters, rapier > whip

 

Chaotic longsword is 107 stab, 124 slash, 120 str.

Godsword is 130 slash 132 strength

Godsword is 2 handed, whereas longsword is 1. So we will compare them with a defender.

This means that longsword is now 127 stab, 143 slash, 125 strength

Longsword is FASTER then godsword

Longsword > godsword in ALL CASES, except when you would use crush. because with defender, it is both MORE ACCURATE curses stab and slash monsters, hits higher, and is faster.

But godsword has special attacks, but we aren't comparing those.

 

Maul has 167 crush, 155 str

Godsword has 80 crush, 132 strength.

Maul coupled with defender is 185 crush, 160 str

Maul > godsword for crushing ANYTHING that is weak to crush

Godsword > maul for anything weak to slash, and

rapier > longsword > maul for anything weak to STAB

Assuming that the maul is the same speed as the godsword, then you could use it vs any HIGH HP, low def monster because it is VERY accurate and has the highest str bonus in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

Just saying "X is better then Y and Z because it hits high lol!!" makes you look like a moron. Have you ever killed mith dragons? Leaf bladed sword is better then whip on them, because it STABS. Corp beast, likewise. If it didn't lower damage, then rapier would be the BEST weapon to fight it.

 

If you were to compare all three to each other, then

rapier good vs stab monsters and low def monsters

longsword good vs slash monsters

maul good vs crush monsters and low def high hp monsters.

[blackeagle4]

I'm going to compare them to whip/gs

 

Rapier is 94 STAB, 104 strength

Whip is 82 SLASH, 82 strength

 

Rapier wins versus anything weak to stab, because it is of the same speed as whip, higher accuracy, and higher strength.

Whip wins to anything weak to SLASH, because if same speed and higher accuracy.

But the difference is very negligible. Unless you are fighting something with a clear weakness (like waterfiends and their crush weakness) you wouldn't tell the difference.

BUT IF THE MONSTER DOES NOT HAVE THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STAB AND SLASH, rapier would win on slash because even though its accuracy is less (wouldn't matter if target has low def), its average hit would be higher because of the strength bonus.

When fighting high stab low slash monsters, whip > rapier

When fighting high slash low stab monsters, rapier > whip

When fighting low stab low slash, or high stab, low slash, low def monsters, rapier > whip

 

Chaotic longsword is 107 stab, 124 slash, 120 str.

Godsword is 130 slash 132 strength

Godsword is 2 handed, whereas longsword is 1. So we will compare them with a defender.

This means that longsword is now 127 stab, 143 slash, 125 strength

Longsword is FASTER then godsword

Longsword > godsword in ALL CASES, except when you would use crush. because with defender, it is both MORE ACCURATE curses stab and slash monsters, hits higher, and is faster.

But godsword has special attacks, but we aren't comparing those.

 

Maul has 167 crush, 155 str

Godsword has 80 crush, 132 strength.

Maul coupled with defender is 185 crush, 160 str

Maul > godsword for crushing ANYTHING that is weak to crush

Godsword > maul for anything weak to slash, and

rapier > longsword > maul for anything weak to STAB

Assuming that the maul is the same speed as the godsword, then you could use it vs any HIGH HP, low def monster because it is VERY accurate and has the highest str bonus in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

Just saying "X is better then Y and Z because it hits high lol!!" makes you look like a moron. Have you ever killed mith dragons? Leaf bladed sword is better then whip on them, because it STABS. Corp beast, likewise. If it didn't lower damage, then rapier would be the BEST weapon to fight it.

 

If you were to compare all three to each other, then

rapier good vs stab monsters and low def monsters

longsword good vs slash monsters

maul good vs crush monsters and low def high hp monsters.

 

I agree with this, although the maul is 2 handed :wink:

[TheAncient]

anyone know if maul is 3 speed or 4 speed? if 3 speed, it's not that good...

[Obtaurian]

Would the maul overtake a Saradomin Sword versus waterfiends, though?

[TheAncient]

Would the maul overtake a Saradomin Sword versus waterfiends, though?

 

Probably not, as Dharok is only a little bit better than waterfiends and I'm pretty sure maul does less damage than Dharok at ~200LP. Again, it really comes down to whether or not the maul is 3 or 4 speed.

[Mazhar]

Would the maul overtake a Saradomin Sword versus waterfiends, though?

 

Probably not, as Dharok is only a little bit better than waterfiends and I'm pretty sure maul does less damage than Dharok at ~200LP. Again, it really comes down to whether or not the maul is 3 or 4 speed.

Maul is most likely 3 speed (considering granite maul is)

[Zepheras]

Kudos to whoever posted the link to RuneScape's KB article on speed class. Now I know why we have a pretty crappy system where rune scimitar>all other rune weapons 95% of the time.

 

Can anyone tell me the exact attacking time for class 3, 4, 5 and 6 weapons?

[Mazhar]

Kudos to whoever posted the link to RuneScape's KB article on speed class. Now I know why we have a pretty crappy system where rune scimitar>all other rune weapons 95% of the time.

 

Can anyone tell me the exact attacking time for class 3, 4, 5 and 6 weapons?

6-0.6xspeed# in seconds

[atestarossa]

I'm going to compare them to whip/gs

 

Rapier is 94 STAB, 104 strength

Whip is 82 SLASH, 82 strength

 

Rapier wins versus anything weak to stab, because it is of the same speed as whip, higher accuracy, and higher strength.

Whip wins to anything weak to SLASH, because if same speed and higher accuracy.

But the difference is very negligible. Unless you are fighting something with a clear weakness (like waterfiends and their crush weakness) you wouldn't tell the difference.

BUT IF THE MONSTER DOES NOT HAVE THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STAB AND SLASH, rapier would win on slash because even though its accuracy is less (wouldn't matter if target has low def), its average hit would be higher because of the strength bonus.

When fighting high stab low slash monsters, whip > rapier

When fighting high slash low stab monsters, rapier > whip

When fighting low stab low slash, or high stab, low slash, low def monsters, rapier > whip

 

 

 

There is still one part here that you haven't considered. HOW MUCH better than a whip is the rapier?

Considering you do not use tokens to recharge your rapier, you'll use 200k/h to use your rapier. So how much better than the whip must the rapier be for it to be good enough?

 

Let's say you earn 2m/h (A conservative estimate for the ones here that boss hunt, although I do not) 200k is earnt in 6 minutes, not much time to think about. But considering that most people that have this high income already will use extremes and turmoil while fighting (I mostly think about slayer right now, as that's the fighting I do most of) Then I would say that the extra accuracy bonus of the rapier perhaps won't do as big a difference as it might sound like.

Now, the increase in strength compared to a whip is about 25%. So I'd say that within an hour, you'd save more than 6 minutes here.

 

I'm not too good in mathematics, so I won't be able to calculate exactly how much time in an hour the rapier will save over a whip, and it hugely depends on the monster fought as well.

But knowing that with a 1m/h income, it would have to save you 12 minutes - 20% increase, or 10% at 2m/h. I think it's important that people consider this part as well, before buying a rapier to train with. (boss hunting is another matter, because of the fierce competition between people/teams there.

 

And of course, knowing how many tokens it would cost to reduce the recharge price by 90% would also be helpful.

[Wkw]

The question "How much better" can only be answered with hands on testing. Something that can't happen for 99% of us right now.

 

But numbers don't lie. If the npc you are fighting has less stab def then they do stab def, rapier will be better then the whip. PERIOD.

 

 

But you have to think of opportunity cost. Most of the time, when you are training slayer, you are fighting weaker monsters. Most monsters are so week really, that whip IS the best weapon. If you figure that you hit every time on most things, then the jump between whip and rapier wouldn't be worth it because of the time spent getting it.

 

Kind of how the difference between +4 and +8 between fremy rings and imbuned fremy rings isn't worth it for most people, because getting 300 rank takes a LONG time.

 

But if you find dungeonering fun, then by all means, go for it and get the tiny boost vurses someone who doesn't.

 

I personaly have all five (i) rings (frem and onyx) because I afk'd MA when I was bored. But I never used them, aside from onyx

[atestarossa]

If you only look at slayer closed off, then there's no way ever that you could get it to be faster to train dungeoneering high enough for the rapier to be good enough for the time taken to get it.

But a huge difference between Mobilising Armies and Dungeoneering is that the latter actually is a skill. That means most people are going to train it anyway, and you'll get tokens anyway. So i'll say that the time used to get the rapier is actually non-existant, as you would probably have trained the skill anyway.

 

Also, the strenght difference between a whip and a rapier is about 25%. Which means that if you're hitting 100% (theoretical, of course) I don't know how much of your hits is affected by bonus, and how much is of the level, but I still think that this is enough to let the wealthiest persons actually gain by using the rapier, even on low-leveled monsters.

[mister_moocky]

What interests me most is what is the best shield for Armadyl. Previously the best for solo was Devine and for duo+ Elysian was the best. To recap:

 

Chaotic kiteshield has 0 range attack, 83 stab defence, -5 magic defence, 0 prayer, and reduces melee damage by 10% on hits of 200+ LP.

Eagle-eye kiteshield has +4 range attack, 50 stab defence, +25 magic defence, 0 prayer, and reduces mage damage by 20% on hits of 200+ LP.

Farseer kiteshield has -15 range attack, 55 stab defence, +5 magic defence, 0 prayer, and reduces magic damage by 10% and melee damage by 20% on hits of 200+ LP.

A fully charged shield lasts for a maximum of 10 hours of combat; reducing damage will drain it faster. Costs 2m to recharge, giving them a cost of use of over 200k per hour.

 

Out of the 3 new shields Eagle-eye is of course the best. With -15 range attack Farseer is out instantly. Not only do you take more damage from mage than melee but Eagle-eye has +4 range attack and double the damage reduction, so it wins over Chaotic. That leaves these 3:

 

Devine has 0 range attack, 63 stab defence, 2 magic defence, 3 prayer, and a 30% damage reduction. Half of the damage reduced (15% of all damage taken) is reduced from your prayer.

Elysian has 0 range attack, 63 stab defence, 2 magic defence, 3 prayer, and a 70% chance of reducing damage by 25%. Basically it has a 17.5% damage reduction.

Eagle-eye kiteshield has +4 range attack, 50 stab defence, +25 magic defence, 0 prayer, and reduces mage damage by 20% on hits of 200+ LP.

 

So what's better? While Eagle-eye has a loss of -13 stab defence and -2 prayer it gains a more signifigant +23 magic defence and +4 range attack. So statwise Eagle-eye wins. However the damage reduction is much worse. Kree's magic attack only has a max of 190, meaning it will never be effected. It also has no effect on Flight (melee minion's) damage. This means that Eagle-eye only reduces 20% of the damage from Wingman (magic minion's) on hits of 200-250 (max hit). Combined with its heafty recharge cost, Devine and Elysian are still the best by far.

[Bladewing]

Rapier has a slash attack too that exceeds whip's, so it will be better than whip 100% of the time.

[Wkw]

Rapier has a slash attack too that exceeds whip's, so it will be better than whip 100% of the time.

 

No. Rapier is 94 stab, 78 slash, 101 str

Whip is 82 slash 82 str

 

Whip is better then rapier for slash a tiny bit. I'd say rapier > whip at everything if you are fighting a low def monster, because you can then stab OR slash it with a higher average hit compared to whip

Unless fighting something that has a large difference between their stab and slash, whip or rapier would be better depending on their weakness.

[Bladewing]

Rapier has a slash attack too that exceeds whip's, so it will be better than whip 100% of the time.

 

No. Rapier is 94 stab, 78 slash, 101 str

Whip is 82 slash 82 str

 

Whip is better then rapier for slash a tiny bit. I'd say rapier > whip at everything if you are fighting a low def monster, because you can then stab OR slash it with a higher average hit compared to whip

Unless fighting something that has a large difference between their stab and slash, whip or rapier would be better depending on their weakness.

The defence of a monster at which 4 accuracy would be better than 19 strength... I don't even know, probably you'd be hitting like 1% of the time or less?

[Patr1ck]

I'm getting longsword, much better bonuses compared to rapier, and the speed is pretty negligible imo. Plus i'd rather not fight with toothpicks. I'll just say this as a given, all mh'ers should buy longsword, it will be best weapon for gwd and corp compared to others.

[Mazhar]

I'm getting longsword, much better bonuses compared to rapier, and the speed is pretty negligible imo. Plus i'd rather not fight with toothpicks. I'll just say this as a given, all mh'ers should buy longsword, it will be best weapon for gwd and corp compared to others.

ZS is still far superior to the new items @ corp, I guess it could be a good substitute for leaf bladed sword + ely/div while being attacked

[Patr1ck]

I'm getting longsword, much better bonuses compared to rapier, and the speed is pretty negligible imo. Plus i'd rather not fight with toothpicks. I'll just say this as a given, all mh'ers should buy longsword, it will be best weapon for gwd and corp compared to others.

ZS is still far superior to the new items @ corp, I guess it could be a good substitute for leaf bladed sword + ely/div while being attacked

 

Oh