Efficiency

[Sir_Kurity]

You can't really be efficient at MW2, theres no stats to train (or is there, i donno).

[SirIzenhime]

[hide]

to those who support efficiency, you should get a factory job you have a natural aptitude for it (especially when you spend your free time working on being more efficient...)

Actually, I have a job where I purposely come 20 minutes early, because it saves me 30+ minutes later. And you know what? I LOVE MY JOB.

 

There is a mathematical, scientific, testable, and thus provable BEST way to do many things, including training skills. Well people ask for advice, they normally want the best/fastest/most gp/hr way. EG, if I ask about the best way to train mining @ 80 mining, I would expect answers talking about granite (Most xp/hr) and C Gold (AFK, profit, and still fast). I would NOT expect advice about mining copper, or iron. (Unless F2P). If I asked about best herb to grow, I would expect people to take into advice average profit per seed, and profit per run, as well as xp. I wouldn't expect answers based on feelings (Don't grow snapdragons, they may be more profit, but the seeds cost too much).

 

Fun, however, is another matter. That is not only highly subjective, but also what a person considers fun varies over time. I used to love mining. Now I rarely train it. Advice shouldn't be based only on what an individual considers "fun", although that can be a factor. In my case, enjoyment, and AFK-ability is why I'd chose C Gold over granite.

 

Efficiency is about getting the most out of your time. That is why I laugh when people call me a "no lifer". The majority of them, outside the trolls, are probably training quite slower then I am.

 

Granted, I don't always enjoy being efficient in everything, hence why I still go to GWD, and play certain minigames, etc. But remember, whilst you are killing specters without a cannon, tanking them, I'll be finishing my task there in 20 minutes, and profiting more off the time saved then the other saved in P pots. Yet even then, that doesn't mean I'm "better". I just enjoy a different style of play.

 

Even so, making fun of one who is efficient because of whatever you think about them, really makes no sense. Our advice is better (normally) then those who only factor in "fun" or what they THINK is a good way to train, and we achieve more. Its how we enjoy to play. But its still a game. Play how you WANT, but if you ask, we'll tell you the EFFICIENT way, and you make up your own mind if you enjoy it.

 

As my nooby friend ( :D ) above me said, posting on TIF isn't helping us much on RS, but I personally not only enjoy it, but I enjoy helping others achieving their real potential.

 

RACHEYA: Directed to you. You ASSUME that being efficient ISN'T fun. That may be true to you, but for us efficient players, it is actually far MORE fun. You assume far to much, and it actually proves the point we have been saying.

[/hide]

 

:thumbsup:

[Racheya]

RACHEYA: Directed to you. You ASSUME that being efficient ISN'T fun. That may be true to you, but for us efficient players, it is actually far MORE fun. You assume far to much, and it actually proves the point we have been saying.

I have actually said MULTIPLE times already that if you find being efficient to be fun, then great. But don't push it on other people.

[stonewall337]

RACHEYA: Directed to you. You ASSUME that being efficient ISN'T fun. That may be true to you, but for us efficient players, it is actually far MORE fun. You assume far to much, and it actually proves the point we have been saying.

I have actually said MULTIPLE times already that if you find being efficient to be fun, then great. But don't push it on other people.

 

 

*Cough* No one is...Unless they ASK. Why give BAD advice in H&A when you can give GOOD advice. If you want to give advice about what you find fun, make sure you SAY SO. People making wild claims that CLS>CR when slaying, when WE'VE PROVEN OTHERWISE are going to get lambasted, and proven wrong. Same for moneymaking methods, etc.

[Michael]

RACHEYA: Directed to you. You ASSUME that being efficient ISN'T fun. That may be true to you, but for us efficient players, it is actually far MORE fun. You assume far to much, and it actually proves the point we have been saying.

I have actually said MULTIPLE times already that if you find being efficient to be fun, then great. But don't push it on other people.

 

 

*Cough* No one is...Unless they ASK. Why give BAD advice in H&A when you can give GOOD advice. If you want to give advice about what you find fun, make sure you SAY SO. People making wild claims that CLS>CR when slaying, when WE'VE PROVEN OTHERWISE are going to get lambasted, and proven wrong. Same for moneymaking methods, etc.

 

Some of the more fun training methods are the most "efficient" sometimes.

[Golvellius]

im sorry you find english cruel

but it seems efficiency is the ability to achieve a desired result without wasted energy or effort.

im not sure why you think "without wasted energy or effort" somehow prevents fun from being one possible "desired result"

go back to grade school, I'm tired of your trolling.

You troll me all over the board so I troll you here and now.

Can't handle it, ignore me.

Don't worry, I'm ignoring you because you don't make sense, you don't understand sarcasim, you apply simple math to off-base assumptions and call them law, you quote economics like its the bible, and I'm beginning to think that english is not your first language.

 

Good job. You managed to ignore the fact that what you posted agreed exactly with the people you are arguing against.

It takes a special kind of mind to be able to ignore your own shortcomings so readily. So instead of acknowledging that you are mistaken, you call names and spout drivel.

 

They tell me that you have trouble with sarcasim.

Say it ain't so.

 

Efficient players are not forcing anyone to also be efficient.

Lmao.

What you can't force you troll. Hence xtroll.

Don't worry we know all your methods are the best because they come from you and you paid good dollar for them.

[Racheya]

RACHEYA: Directed to you. You ASSUME that being efficient ISN'T fun. That may be true to you, but for us efficient players, it is actually far MORE fun. You assume far to much, and it actually proves the point we have been saying.

I have actually said MULTIPLE times already that if you find being efficient to be fun, then great. But don't push it on other people.

 

 

*Cough* No one is...Unless they ASK. Why give BAD advice in H&A when you can give GOOD advice. If you want to give advice about what you find fun, make sure you SAY SO. People making wild claims that CLS>CR when slaying, when WE'VE PROVEN OTHERWISE are going to get lambasted, and proven wrong. Same for moneymaking methods, etc.

 

That's fine, but it's in game when you're using a certain method and you're called a noob because you're not using the most efficient. Many members here have given examples. If you're ASKING for help that's fine, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about general gameplay.

 

And don't try to pretend that Efficiency isn't forced on people, I'd go through this thread picking out quotes but it's late and I'm tired.

[Jehosaphat]

Summary:

 

Efficiency is good to recommend when:

Someone asks for it

There's a debate over whether item X or item Y is better

 

Efficiency is bad to recommend when:

You see someone using something inferior and mock them for being inefficient

You just wanna do stuff for the lols (Killing Bandos statues for me)

Someone else is doing something for the lols, and mentions it in a public area

 

Shorter summary: Efficiency is fine and dandy. Just don't be a douche about it, to yourself or to someone else.

[All_Is_Great]

RACHEYA: Directed to you. You ASSUME that being efficient ISN'T fun. That may be true to you, but for us efficient players, it is actually far MORE fun. You assume far to much, and it actually proves the point we have been saying.

I have actually said MULTIPLE times already that if you find being efficient to be fun, then great. But don't push it on other people.

 

 

*Cough* No one is...Unless they ASK. Why give BAD advice in H&A when you can give GOOD advice. If you want to give advice about what you find fun, make sure you SAY SO. People making wild claims that CLS>CR when slaying, when WE'VE PROVEN OTHERWISE are going to get lambasted, and proven wrong. Same for moneymaking methods, etc.

 

That's fine, but it's in game when you're using a certain method and you're called a noob because you're not using the most efficient. Many members here have given examples. If you're ASKING for help that's fine, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about general gameplay.

 

And don't try to pretend that Efficiency isn't forced on people, I'd go through this thread picking out quotes but it's late and I'm tired.

 

Exactly, I'm backing up Rach on everything she says.

 

OT: where I stand on efficiency:

Tbh, I don't care much about it. You can be as efficient as you like, but don't put down other people for not being as efficient as you. If something that is efficient isn't enjoyable for me, and no matter how fast it lets you make money/train skills, I never do it.

[Peregrine]

On my way to 99 crafting, I crafted 130k sapphire necklaces in f2p. It took me a little less than a year, and I achieved 99 crafting on my birthday. I had fun. Would I do it again? Nope.

 

I wouldn't do it again because while I was enjoying chatting with my friends, I wasn't actually doing anything with them. I was being extremely inefficient, gaining an average of 20k exp/day, while my friends were maxing out combat and Slaying/MHing/PvPing/Questing/Minigames.

 

On the drop of a dime I would trade 99 crafting for maxed melees or maxed combat. Why? Because I can actually use maxed combat to do activities with my friends. 99 crafting does nothing except sit on my back and look pretty. And grinding sucked, even if only for 20k exp/day.

 

Grinding, no matter how efficient or inefficient you are, has a negative effect on the community in Runescape. In primary skills, it is almost always detrimental to grind with another player at the same area. In secondary skills, most of which are 'AFK' skills, where one either talks all the time or does not talk at all (AFKs).

 

Grinding isn't the cause of the problem, though; it is the effect. Thirteen million exp is the cause. There is no reason why someone should be spending their time on runescape lighting 34,162 fires with MAGIC logs (+pouch/RoF/gloves) to get 99 firemaking from level 79. Thirteen million exp is keeping players from playing the truly fun parts of the game, which consist of MHing/PvPing/Questing/Minigames, and arguably Slaying, Farming, and Dungeoneering. 31 people have 200m exp, 44 people have more than 100m exp, 99 people have more than 50m exp, 847 people have more than 20m exp, 52,873 people have 99 firemaking or higher, and 56,304 people have 10m exp or higher. This is just firemaking. And I doubt all of the players used the aforementioned most time-efficient method, which takes 30.6 hours, according to Grimy's spreadsheets. The most common method, which I presume is maple logs, requires 66.3 hours to achieve 99 from 79. And I would also presume that a majority of players don't have intentions of being as efficient as possible.

 

Grinding is a roadblock to many fun things in the game. There are two detours you can take to get around it. The long road (Being inefficient and having fun now), or the short road (Being efficient and having fun later). Obviously you can take any of the thousand of roads that vary in length and fun/relaxation, but some would argue that gaining exp doesn't have to be a roadblock, as many activities don't require you to have a concrete high level to participate in them. While that is true, and downing Jad or playing Castle Wars at lower levels is more challenging in a certain aspect, the competitive nature of the game encourages us to train our levels higher or get beaten by those who have. I wouldn't mind duoing GWD with a maxed out friend, and my maxed out friends probably wouldn't mind me duoing aswell. But if another pair of people come to GWD looking to have fun, and one is maxed and another is a higher level than myself, they can/will crash us, thusly encouraging me to grow stronger. Same goes for Castle Wars/Stealing Creation. If you train more, your team has a better chance of winning. Training faster allows one to become better at various activities within Runescape faster.

 

Unfortunately, there is no solution to progressing in the game without spending relative amounts of time gaining exp. What is important, however, is that you are having fun. If you aren't doing what you wish you could be doing, you better be doing something that allows you to do what you are dreaming of.

 

I used to think I enjoyed and loved training crafting. Honestly, I now realize I didn't. If I did, I would've trained crafting past 99. What I did enjoy was talking to people. Think about it. If Runescape was single-player, would you play it? Would you spend hours cutting trees so you could reach 75 woodcutting to start "Within The Light"? Don't fool yourselves. I learned to value Time Saved > Money Earned. If you also think this way, it might be for your best to try to become more efficient. How efficient you should be is in direct relation between a constant income per hour you can attain. But I also learned to value Fun >/= Time Saved > Money Earned, and time saved is only equal to fun IF AND ONLY IF you are saving time to access something fun.

 

Efficiency isn't neccessarily bad or unfun, inefficiency isn't neccessarily "having a life" or fun. What absolutely matters is that you KNOW that the specific activity you are doing is the source of your fun, or that what you are doing will allow you to have fun in the future of your Runescape career.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Peregrine

[z0diark]

I don't see why so many people are deliberately trolling each other and arguing over their individual styles of play. Personally I dont think about efficiency too much however I do tend to train fairly efficiently. I've spent most my summer slaying and was always using extreme pots/titan/turmoil/cannon but xp wasnt really an issue until 98 slayer when I knew I was so close to my goal. My main reason for training like I did was because I enjoyed killing things quickly, not for fast xps, just because I like to be active on runescape and sitting there not clicking bores me (probably why I don't enjoy skills like cookery where you only need to click about 5 times per minute). However, I've spent about a thousand hours playing castle wars which is in no way efficient but is alot of fun (or was). I also spend loads of time sitting at my computer watching/reading rs related things but not training (I could easily have got 99 in all the afk skills if id bothered to multitask) but I disliked doing anything other than chatting to people when scaping and even then it has to be to other scapers. I really do think it's stupid to criticise other people's style of gameplay though, if they're enjoying themselves then what's the problem?

[pulli23]

Racheya, fundamental rule of economics.

You know, all those economic "rules" failed to prevent the crash and the fact many people loose their job?

 

It's also time real life stops worshipping all those gurus who think of "fundamental rules" in completely non-fundamental environments!

 

Please don't introduce these things into runescape!

[Obtaurian]

Racheya, fundamental rule of economics.

You know, all those economic "rules" failed to prevent the crash and the fact many people loose their job?

 

It's also time real life stops worshipping all those gurus who think of "fundamental rules" in completely non-fundamental environments!

 

Please don't introduce these things into runescape!

 

You really need to do some research before you post about the economic crash. There's a reason why the economic rules didn't help.

 

Oh, and IRL =/= Runescape, FYI.

[stonewall337]

Racheya, fundamental rule of economics.

You know, all those economic "rules" failed to prevent the crash and the fact many people loose their job?

 

It's also time real life stops worshipping all those gurus who think of "fundamental rules" in completely non-fundamental environments!

 

Please don't introduce these things into runescape!

Because the whole "housing bubble" was SO caused by only good business practice...

[Cassynder]

Actually, I have a job where I purposely come 20 minutes early, because it saves me 30+ minutes later. And you know what? I LOVE MY JOB.

 

Ha ha ha

[Low C]

Can we just agree that efficiency is fun to the beholder. If you enjoy not being efficient then thats fun for you but you're not being efficient doing so. It's a win win situation for the efficient person.

[testingsomestuff123]

This is eerily familiar to a religious discussion.

[Sly_Wizard]

You can't really be efficient at MW2, theres no stats to train (or is there, i donno).

 

You could be a n00b tuber.

[Leximunium]

You can't really be efficient at MW2, theres no stats to train (or is there, i donno).

 

You could be a n00b tuber.

Yet noob tubing gets kills, and lots of them. If a guys wants alot of kills, noob tubing, to them, is efficient. To others, however, they are a noob, for getting cheap kills. Its like d claw rushing in pvp; Its noobish, but commonly effective, especially for kills.

 

@'efficency'

 

It really is their problem in the end. I could care less if they would rather spend 22 mil on a bcp when they could use a torso, instead of getting up non combat skills that might help them in the future, but hey. Thats their problem.

 

However, I do hate when they try to rube off their efficient religion on everyone else. Killing slayer monsters with anything less than the best results in 'lrn2beefficient' or 'noob gear'. Maybe I like the look of the gear? Maybe im not trying to look like a cookie cutter high level?(bandos, claws, etc.)When people say'lol glory noob, get fury' I laugh. The bonuses...really do nothing. But thats my opinion. (i also dont wanna spend 10+ mil on something when I can not and say I didnt)

[stonewall337]

You can't really be efficient at MW2, theres no stats to train (or is there, i donno).

 

You could be a n00b tuber.

Yet noob tubing gets kills, and lots of them. If a guys wants alot of kills, noob tubing, to them, is efficient. To others, however, they are a noob, for getting cheap kills. Its like d claw rushing in pvp; Its noobish, but commonly effective, especially for kills.

 

@'efficency'

 

It really is their problem in the end. I could care less if they would rather spend 22 mil on a bcp when they could use a torso, instead of getting up non combat skills that might help them in the future, but hey. Thats their problem.

 

However, I do hate when they try to rube off their efficient religion on everyone else. Killing slayer monsters with anything less than the best results in 'lrn2beefficient' or 'noob gear'. Maybe I like the look of the gear? Maybe im not trying to look like a cookie cutter high level?(bandos, claws, etc.)When people say'lol glory noob, get fury' I laugh. The bonuses...really do nothing. But thats my opinion. (i also dont wanna spend 10+ mil on something when I can not and say I didnt)

 

 

See, if you want to use a glory over fury, go ahead. But when you say that "The bonuses....really do nothing" That isn't an opinion. That can be proven. And its been proven that the bonuses ARE helpful. There is a difference between an OPINION and a FACT. We've had this glory vs fury debate before. You can prove which is better...and by how much...etc.

 

Now, for you, the bonuses may not be enough to balance out the cost. But don't discount fury altogether.

[Sir_Squab]

okay berserker ring

 

if you are lower leveled, i understand not wanting to buy a berserker ring. who wants to go make money for 4 hours to buy a ring when you can just train your str instead to hit harder?

 

but i am 138 combat, i cannot improve myself by training, so i buy the ring because it's the only thing i can do to be stronger

 

Are you just trying to sound rich? Even if you have 1bil that's a waste of 5mil still. Maybe you don't care about wasting it, but it's still a waste.

 

I completely disagree with that statement. If anything, having 1bil saved up is a waste, as there's nothing practical about having 1bil. You know, short of spending it. On things. Like rings. That are worth 5m. And if anything, his desire for a berserker ring shows he isn't that efficient; if he really wanted good gear, he'd max out his MA rank and get one of those rings. Yeah.

 

Here's something interesting to think about: how efficient is it to figure out how to be efficient?

 

Back to spending money on expensive things, if you have the money, why not? Really, the purpose of money is to spend it. Now, you might want a cash pile for in case you die, or because your saving up for something else.... or maybe because you LIKE large cash piles.... but frankly, if you can afford great gear, get it.

[Obtaurian]

I completely disagree with that statement. If anything, having 1bil saved up is a waste, as there's nothing practical about having 1bil. You know, short of spending it. On things. Like rings. That are worth 5m. And if anything, his desire for a berserker ring shows he isn't that efficient; if he really wanted good gear, he'd max out his MA rank and get one of those rings. Yeah.

 

Here's something interesting to think about: how efficient is it to figure out how to be efficient?

 

Back to spending money on expensive things, if you have the money, why not? Really, the purpose of money is to spend it. Now, you might want a cash pile for in case you die, or because your saving up for something else.... or maybe because you LIKE large cash piles.... but frankly, if you can afford great gear, get it.

 

Two things:

 

1. Bladewing does have 300 rank.

 

2. Getting 300 rank is actually pretty inefficient, even if you're going far passed 99 in combat experience. It takes 25-30 hours depending on how you do it.

 

That said, Bladewing, Stonewall, Morionic, and myself all have 300 rank. Z0MG THE EFFICIENCY PREACHERS BEING INEFFICIENT WORLD GONA SPLODE NOW. Looks like things aren't so black and white, eh?

[ghjkl]

Maybe it is efficient because a better ring makes them get more kills at ffa/crashing bosses, and will pay off way faster than exp.

[SirIzenhime]

 

 

I completely disagree with that statement. If anything, having 1bil saved up is a waste, as there's nothing practical about having 1bil. You know, short of spending it. On things. Like rings. That are worth 5m. And if anything, his desire for a berserker ring shows he isn't that efficient; if he really wanted good gear, he'd max out his MA rank and get one of those rings. Yeah.

 

Here's something interesting to think about: how efficient is it to figure out how to be efficient?

 

Back to spending money on expensive things, if you have the money, why not? Really, the purpose of money is to spend it. Now, you might want a cash pile for in case you die, or because your saving up for something else.... or maybe because you LIKE large cash piles.... but frankly, if you can afford great gear, get it.

 

You do realize in order to get one of the MA rings, you first need to buy the initial 5m ring to imbue with the MA rank....right? I'm 99.8% sure bladewig has a Berserker(i), and probably even an Onyx(i). He's pretty much got the good gear...try not making assumptions about people, especially if they're extremely easy to prove wrong, because when you are wrong, it makes you sound like an ignorant [bleep].

 

Maybe it is efficient because a better ring makes them get more kills at ffa/crashing bosses, and will pay off way faster than exp.

 

This is 100% exactly the truth.

[Obtaurian]

Maybe it is efficient because a better ring makes them get more kills at ffa/crashing bosses, and will pay off way faster than exp.

 

This is 100% exactly the truth.

 

Well, you'd have to boss hunt a LOT to make up for the 30 hours lost. Personally, I think it's a pretty good trade-off, but in terms of pure efficiency, it's not.