Pro DGing

[Squisher_33]

From the way you talk I doubt you've ever actually tried a dungeon with no armor. It's not that bad, really.

Most people only have 2 binds.

So guess what, we all start out no armour.

First few rooms are brutal, people horde the food, then finally some ore appears and life gets easier.

My favorite part in this whole psuedo discussion/bs affair is where somebody says that fishing is good and making armour is bad.

Lol... with armour you don't need to fish, food on kills is more than enough and you can stock up bob for a boss by the end.

So if your a "pro", you fish/cut lumber/then cook for 5 minutes and complain about somebody taking 2 minutes to gear up.

 

3 binds is much more realistic, since from 1-120 almost all of your xp will be gained with 3 binds

 

everybody i dung with has 3 binds, and its been that way since warped basicly so im not used to seeing 2 binders

 

however i also have no armor bound, and theres a noticable differance between armor and no armor. once i bind a primal plate or saggitare body my life will be so much easier

 

as for "ore appearing" if you dung with people who make armor thats a bad thing, i may have no armor bound but even when the dungeon ends i still will not have made any armor, if you have no armor its better to get used to it rather than taking time every dung to make some, slows the team down

 

tho im used to it by now, i survive just fine without armor and rarely get deaths because of it (i do stupid things and die occasionaly but its not cuz of no armor bound, its just me screwing around)

 

if you do take 2-5 minutes to prepare thats selfish to your team, your only slowing them down. this is why skilling is shunned in good clans...however mining ore for bloodragers is awsome

[Viv]

From the way you talk I doubt you've ever actually tried a dungeon with no armor. It's not that bad, really.

Most people only have 2 binds.

So guess what, we all start out no armour.

First few rooms are brutal, people horde the food, then finally some ore appears and life gets easier.

My favorite part in this whole psuedo discussion/bs affair is where somebody says that fishing is good and making armour is bad.

Lol... with armour you don't need to fish, food on kills is more than enough and you can stock up bob for a boss by the end.

So if your a "pro", you fish/cut lumber/then cook for 5 minutes and complain about somebody taking 2 minutes to gear up.

 

3 binds is much more realistic, since from 1-120 almost all of your xp will be gained with 3 binds

 

everybody i dung with has 3 binds, and its been that way since warped basicly so im not used to seeing 2 binders

 

however i also have no armor bound, and theres a noticable differance between armor and no armor. once i bind a primal plate or saggitare body my life will be so much easier

 

as for "ore appearing" if you dung with people who make armor thats a bad thing, i may have no armor bound but even when the dungeon ends i still will not have made any armor, if you have no armor its better to get used to it rather than taking time every dung to make some, slows the team down

 

tho im used to it by now, i survive just fine without armor and rarely get deaths because of it (i do stupid things and die occasionaly but its not cuz of no armor bound, its just me screwing around)

 

if you do take 2-5 minutes to prepare thats selfish to your team, your only slowing them down. this is why skilling is shunned in good clans...however mining ore for bloodragers is awsome

honestly it takes focus to have no armor throughout the dg ...u cant just expect to pray mage most rooms and live tho brutes, warriors, skeles and some rangers hit high armor or not.

but yeh u gotta get used to praying right thing, tele to safety quick....most people say bloods and hexes are 4th binds only. but id rather have full primal to look cool at 120.

 

edit:yeh more 2 binders are coming to 3bo world...tho i think its best to only take friends that are under 100..ive had so many complains of 99ers skilling and sht thiers a thread on hlf about making armor in dg and it got tore apart lol its not acceptable to mine in rushes and imo fishing constantly in rushes is pretty bad as well...but the food system does kind of make it so sometimes one of ur teamates is a foodhog, always check the keyers invent if u have alot of food

[green9090]

From the way you talk I doubt you've ever actually tried a dungeon with no armor. It's not that bad, really.

Most people only have 2 binds.

So guess what, we all start out no armour.

First few rooms are brutal, people horde the food, then finally some ore appears and life gets easier.

My favorite part in this whole psuedo discussion/bs affair is where somebody says that fishing is good and making armour is bad.

Lol... with armour you don't need to fish, food on kills is more than enough and you can stock up bob for a boss by the end.

So if your a "pro", you fish/cut lumber/then cook for 5 minutes and complain about somebody taking 2 minutes to gear up.

Did you even bother to look at my dungeoneering level? I'm 93. I don't have armor bound either, genius.

 

The first few rooms are brutal, not because of food hoarders OR lack of armor, but because the first few rooms of monsters don't drop more than a couple food if that, and the keyer needs most of it. This is true for people with plate bound and those without. The plate hardly makes a difference, because the big problems (shades, high level meleers/rangers with mages) hit just fine through a plate anyway.

 

I've seen people with platebody bind have to fish before- it's all about how bad the first few rooms are. You can either spend a couple minutes fishing and cooking enough for the whole team to survive for a while, or you can waste a couple minutes suiting yourself with armor that will not solve the current problem of not enough HP, AND will become more and more useless as the dungeon goes on and food drops become more common. Armor is also just about useless on every boss, because their attack is high enough to tear through it like butter.

 

If you're "pro," you help your team with the immediate problem rather than just making yourself some near useless armor while everyone else is trying to kill GDs to get some more food. One fishing spot worth of morays is almost always enough that everyone will be able to make it to some good food droppers, even if your first few rooms destroyed everyone's food supply.

[Blutters]

I don't make armor every dungeon and in fact usually just run around with found clothes from monster drops, but the times I DO make armor it helps more than you say... :mellow:

It's not really selfish if it helps you save food and leave more on the ground for your teammates.

Basically, for when I'm forced to do so, I keep track of where rocks are and then go back to them when there's a lull, as for a puzzle room like the tile room or something that takes a few minutes. I do make myself a full set but then create platebodies or platelegs for the other people.

 

I need to read the thread author's guide... I don't know how to access people of "pro DG" stature. I have maxed combat aside from Summoning, and 91 DG, but only mid-high 80s in most skills...

I do the main things like listen to the keyer and at least try to gate places if no one else does, and I know monster weaknesses and priorities.

I think the main thing that has stopped me seeking out pro teams thus-far is reluctance to be with people that will kick me for failing some small nuance of elite etiquette.

[AlexRose]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcdpOE0anus

Ha, just noticed this. I can make a video of me not keying if that's something anyone would like to see.

 

Ill probably be doing this too.

 

I actually thought that every member in the party would be recording for multiple views. I also thought that there would be commentary, though it wasn't really neccesary in that particular dungeon.

[Squisher_33]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcdpOE0anus

Ha, just noticed this. I can make a video of me not keying if that's something anyone would like to see.

 

Ill probably be doing this too.

 

I actually thought that every member in the party would be recording for multiple views. I also thought that there would be commentary, though it wasn't really neccesary in that particular dungeon.

 

uhh....there was commentary

[brunokiller]

Just select turmoil+soul split as quick prays, and flash them. Keeps my hp up really well. Especially with a strong melee pot you tear through everything.

[green9090]

I don't make armor every dungeon and in fact usually just run around with found clothes from monster drops, but the times I DO make armor it helps more than you say... :mellow:

It's not really selfish if it helps you save food and leave more on the ground for your teammates.

Basically, for when I'm forced to do so, I keep track of where rocks are and then go back to them when there's a lull, as for a puzzle room like the tile room or something that takes a few minutes. I do make myself a full set but then create platebodies or platelegs for the other people.

 

I need to read the thread author's guide... I don't know how to access people of "pro DG" stature. I have maxed combat aside from Summoning, and 91 DG, but only mid-high 80s in most skills...

I do the main things like listen to the keyer and at least try to gate places if no one else does, and I know monster weaknesses and priorities.

I think the main thing that has stopped me seeking out pro teams thus-far is reluctance to be with people that will kick me for failing some small nuance of elite etiquette.

It's not so much etiquette as it is just not doing stupid things. Armor will not save enough food to be worth making, period. One fishing spot worth of food is likely more than double the food you would save by making armor, and fishing/cooking takes about the same amount of time as mining/smithing. The fact that you believe that armor is a worthwhile use of time when there are so many other things that you could be doing instead shows that you're not ready to not enrage pro DGers.

 

There's a reason they're called "pro." The fact that you feel that their decisions and priorities are wrong is a poor reflection on you, not them. If you want to play with people who are good, you'll have to also play well.

[All_Is_Great]

I've seen people 100+ dg and they still make armour. I thought that as soon as you hit 100, you become pro :blink:

[TheAncient]

I've seen people 100+ dg and they still make armour. I thought that as soon as you hit 100, you become pro :blink:

 

Govelltroll is 90+ lol

[green9090]

I've seen people 100+ dg and they still make armour. I thought that as soon as you hit 100, you become pro :blink:

Lol, unfortunately not. A couple nights ago I was playing with a 103 who was garbage. He kept going into puzzle rooms, killing everything, and then standing around waiting for somebody to come and do the puzzle. Without saying anything. Very annoying.

[DyingSilent]

85-88 DG in 2 days, 10 spiders and haven't seen a hood yet...Pretty much did a full set of F1-44, without a hood drop. Amidoinitwrong?

[All_Is_Great]

85-88 DG in 2 days, 10 spiders and haven't seen a hood yet...Pretty much did a full set of F1-44, without a hood drop. Amidoinitwrong?

 

Nah, just keep training. This weekend I went 85-87 and didn't even see a spider (although I already have a hood). So it's pretty darn random.

[green9090]

Easiest way to get hood is to solo c6 meds on abandoned floors, rushing as much as possible. Whenever you dead end without an easy place to go next or find all the rooms, leave and try again. Kill every spider you see. Don't bother with the boss or any particularly long or annoying puzzles or GDs.

[DyingSilent]

Easiest way to get hood is to solo c6 meds on abandoned floors, rushing as much as possible. Whenever you dead end without an easy place to go next or find all the rooms, leave and try again. Kill every spider you see. Don't bother with the boss or any particularly long or annoying puzzles or GDs.

 

Yeah did solo meds 12-29, only seen 2 spiders -.-

[jettrider]

The big deal in the making armor debate is wasting ores. Mining can speed up your dungeon if done properly, which unfortunately no one seems to do.

 

Priority should be bloodragers -> gloves -> boots -> armor for keyer -> armor for self. When you skip straight to the fifth priority down the list, you're doingitwrong. Armor can only speed up a dungeon in the sense that it lowers time needed to pick up food, which is already minimal. Bloodragers and strength-boosting gloves/boots speed it up more dramatically as long as you aren't mining while your team waits at emotes.

[green9090]

I could be mistaken here, but to me it seems like gloves and boots would universally be a waste of time. Instead of that you could be:

 

Bloodrager making (which you mentioned)

Farming and assembling 5 strong melee pots

Making surge runes to take down warriors (if you lack a surgebox bind)

 

Just to name a couple of useful things to do in your downtime. In my experience it's very rare to have the spare time to even do those three things. I suppose if you have a whole lot of downtime and extra ore after making ragers, you could make some gloves for people, but I don't see them being overly helpful.

[TheAncient]

I could be mistaken here, but to me it seems like gloves and boots would universally be a waste of time. Instead of that you could be:

 

Bloodrager making (which you mentioned)

Farming and assembling 5 strong melee pots

Making surge runes to take down warriors (if you lack a surgebox bind)

 

Just to name a couple of useful things to do in your downtime. In my experience it's very rare to have the spare time to even do those three things. I suppose if you have a whole lot of downtime and extra ore after making ragers, you could make some gloves for people, but I don't see them being overly helpful.

 

The extra damage you do in the time it takes to make gloves/boots is far more than the damage youd get because of the str boost

This is of course assuming your keyer always points you to GD's. even if not, you should be fishing instead.

[Blutters]

I don't make armor every dungeon and in fact usually just run around with found clothes from monster drops, but the times I DO make armor it helps more than you say... :mellow:

It's not really selfish if it helps you save food and leave more on the ground for your teammates.

Basically, for when I'm forced to do so, I keep track of where rocks are and then go back to them when there's a lull, as for a puzzle room like the tile room or something that takes a few minutes. I do make myself a full set but then create platebodies or platelegs for the other people.

 

I need to read the thread author's guide... I don't know how to access people of "pro DG" stature. I have maxed combat aside from Summoning, and 91 DG, but only mid-high 80s in most skills...

I do the main things like listen to the keyer and at least try to gate places if no one else does, and I know monster weaknesses and priorities.

I think the main thing that has stopped me seeking out pro teams thus-far is reluctance to be with people that will kick me for failing some small nuance of elite etiquette.

It's not so much etiquette as it is just not doing stupid things. Armor will not save enough food to be worth making, period. One fishing spot worth of food is likely more than double the food you would save by making armor, and fishing/cooking takes about the same amount of time as mining/smithing. The fact that you believe that armor is a worthwhile use of time when there are so many other things that you could be doing instead shows that you're not ready to not enrage pro DGers.

 

There's a reason they're called "pro." The fact that you feel that their decisions and priorities are wrong is a poor reflection on you, not them. If you want to play with people who are good, you'll have to also play well.

That's really rather harsher than should follow what I said. I repeat: I make armor only when I know the resources are plentiful and quick to get to, and it's already going pretty bad, which thankfully isn't often.

 

I suppose I could rephrase that in the kind of BS dungeons I mostly get caught in, where everyone is having to fend for themselves, taking time to make armor is worthwhile and the last time I did it I was invincible.

Either way I guess you answered me... That with your teams it's never worthwhile.

[SirIzenhime]

I could be mistaken here, but to me it seems like gloves and boots would universally be a waste of time. Instead of that you could be:

 

Bloodrager making (which you mentioned)

Farming and assembling 5 strong melee pots

Making surge runes to take down warriors (if you lack a surgebox bind)

 

Just to name a couple of useful things to do in your downtime. In my experience it's very rare to have the spare time to even do those three things. I suppose if you have a whole lot of downtime and extra ore after making ragers, you could make some gloves for people, but I don't see them being overly helpful.

 

The extra damage you do in the time it takes to make gloves/boots is far more than the damage youd get because of the str boost

This is of course assuming your keyer always points you to GD's. even if not, you should be fishing instead.

 

And when that isn't an option? (which sometimes there are those moments, not often, but there are)

I don't see how spending 20 seconds making gloves/boots a waste of time. This is assuming you aren't stupid about making them though. If you tele home to make them, then yea, you're wasting a lot of time. But if you have a good gatherer's ring, you'll get the two ore fast, and then you can just hold on to them until you find a furnace on the way.

 

That is the ONLY way I can see making gloves/boots not be a waste. Any other time, you should be killing/doing puzzles/fishing.

[TheAncient]

I could be mistaken here, but to me it seems like gloves and boots would universally be a waste of time. Instead of that you could be:

 

Bloodrager making (which you mentioned)

Farming and assembling 5 strong melee pots

Making surge runes to take down warriors (if you lack a surgebox bind)

 

Just to name a couple of useful things to do in your downtime. In my experience it's very rare to have the spare time to even do those three things. I suppose if you have a whole lot of downtime and extra ore after making ragers, you could make some gloves for people, but I don't see them being overly helpful.

 

The extra damage you do in the time it takes to make gloves/boots is far more than the damage youd get because of the str boost

This is of course assuming your keyer always points you to GD's. even if not, you should be fishing instead.

 

And when that isn't an option? (which sometimes there are those moments, not often, but there are)

I don't see how spending 20 seconds making gloves/boots a waste of time. This is assuming you aren't stupid about making them though. If you tele home to make them, then yea, you're wasting a lot of time. But if you have a good gatherer's ring, you'll get the two ore fast, and then you can just hold on to them until you find a furnace on the way.

 

That is the ONLY way I can see making gloves/boots not be a waste. Any other time, you should be killing/doing puzzles/fishing.

 

Even then, your priority should be ragers. To equip a whole team with ragers and scrolls takes a pretty substantial amount of ore (6-8?)

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I could be mistaken here, but to me it seems like gloves and boots would universally be a waste of time. Instead of that you could be:

 

Bloodrager making (which you mentioned)

Farming and assembling 5 strong melee pots

Making surge runes to take down warriors (if you lack a surgebox bind)

 

Just to name a couple of useful things to do in your downtime. In my experience it's very rare to have the spare time to even do those three things. I suppose if you have a whole lot of downtime and extra ore after making ragers, you could make some gloves for people, but I don't see them being overly helpful.

 

The extra damage you do in the time it takes to make gloves/boots is far more than the damage youd get because of the str boost

This is of course assuming your keyer always points you to GD's. even if not, you should be fishing instead.

 

And when that isn't an option? (which sometimes there are those moments, not often, but there are)

I don't see how spending 20 seconds making gloves/boots a waste of time. This is assuming you aren't stupid about making them though. If you tele home to make them, then yea, you're wasting a lot of time. But if you have a good gatherer's ring, you'll get the two ore fast, and then you can just hold on to them until you find a furnace on the way.

 

That is the ONLY way I can see making gloves/boots not be a waste. Any other time, you should be killing/doing puzzles/fishing.

 

Even then, your priority should be ragers. To equip a whole team with ragers and scrolls takes a pretty substantial amount of ore (6-8?)

I personally used to no more than 4 ores for 3 ragers and 10 scrolls.

 

but now I think even 4 ores is kind of excessive.

Necrolord and Thunderous you'd probably never use scrolls on.

And in our team, final likes to solo so, we haven't actually been using those 3 ragers all the time. 1 rager 10 scrolls might make more sense for us these days.

 

I am also starting to question rager scrolls for early warped floors because it's so easy to safespot mage dreadnaut.

[Mazhar]

I'm so glad I haven't run into any of the people favoring making armor on this forum in DG yet. With a good keyer there is no way you will have enough time to mine 5 ore, smelt 5 ore, and smith a plate without having atleast one gd waiting to be done.

[Matt_Marche]

Besides, you honestly never need more armor than a hood + plate. You won't be tanking a primal warrior without prayer, and running through rooms with mages is easy enough without a plate.

 

EDIT: 2 things I have been considering recently.

 

1. The use of cosmic runes as a bind

 

Of course laws are seen as more useful because of their utility in c1s. However, do cosmics not have a role in c1s as well? For those being the party leader in c1s, laws are useless. Cosmics on the other hand, would allow the leader to travel with the main group and essentially "stand by 2 doors" which could speed up c1s significantly. They would have decent utlity outside of being the party leader too, considering just individual gating.

 

2. Taking off your hood when running into a mage filled room

 

I haven't seen anyone else do this yet. Oftentimes when I key I run through a room with 3 or so mages and about 5 other random monsters that can't see me through hood. If I leave my hood on, I get about 2-3 seconds of immunity because of the mages casting the revealing spell and then I am just as vulnerable as a non-hooder. If I take my hood off beforehand, all the monsters can see me; but as soon as I put my hood back on I regain it's utlities. I have been able to run rooms with a much lower amount of food by utilizing this.

 

For example, you are running through room A, opening a skill door to access room B, which has a skill/guardian door. Room A has mages that can reveal you, room b does not. As you run through room A, take off hood and pray mage to avoid binds. As you enter room B, put your hood on and immediately get hood effect rather than waiting. It may seem like a lot of trouble, but there are many times when you run through multiple rooms where your hood is disabled.

 

Thoughts?

[jettrider]

I'm so glad I haven't run into any of the people favoring making armor on this forum in DG yet. With a good keyer there is no way you will have enough time to mine 5 ore, smelt 5 ore, and smith a plate without having atleast one gd waiting to be done.

 

That's probably the main point here. If you haven't experienced always having something to do, then of course you'll think making armor is helpful. All the people arguing why you shouldn't make armor are doing this kind of thing, while if you DG with randoms then you're probably being given a generous percentage of your time "off" with nothing to do. It's impossible to see the logic behind it until you experience it first-hand, which is why there's no agreement.