Pro DGing

[ghjkl]

I think with the blastbox then the rapier will be a better weapon. You really don't need crush anymore on primal warriors and fire giants, and mage is decent on skeletons. Dragons, mages, shades, brutes, demons, and hellhounds are all weak to stab

[green9090]

Also probably true. I JUST bound a surgebox last night right before I got off and still haven't tried it out, so finding out which ring to upgrade is relevant to my interests.

 

Reading the description of blitzer makes me think that it randomly does or doesn't speed up your casts unless you're T10, which I'm thinking would ruin it for me. I like to flash soul split to heal, and if my cast speed becomes unpredictable then that wouldn't really work. Is that how it actually works or have I misunderstood?

[DyingSilent]

Also probably true. I JUST bound a surgebox last night right before I got off and still haven't tried it out, so finding out which ring to upgrade is relevant to my interests.

 

Reading the description of blitzer makes me think that it randomly does or doesn't speed up your casts unless you're T10, which I'm thinking would ruin it for me. I like to flash soul split to heal, and if my cast speed becomes unpredictable then that wouldn't really work. Is that how it actually works or have I misunderstood?

 

I was also thinking the same thing, as far as healing with soul split flashes goes.

[Quyneax]

You can soulsplit off the bonus damage from blazer. Looks epic :thumbup:.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I think with the blastbox then the rapier will be a better weapon. You really don't need crush anymore on primal warriors and fire giants, and mage is decent on skeletons. Dragons, mages, shades, brutes, demons, and hellhounds are all weak to stab

This is a good point. My only concern is for bosses though.

namely thunderous and gravecreeper, who are supposedly weakest to slash. Not sure about the new warped bosses.

might be good though.

2h's are probably still best on skeletons and zombies by about 15-20% ish though.

I'm not certain that it's an obvious call.

 

I've rapiered hellhounds before. The accuracy was about the same as a 2h on crush.

The rapier is definitely much better on brutes and shades though. (about by 15%)

but the reverse can be said for magic vs 2H on zombies and skeletons. (its about 15-20% slower than a 2h with berserker)

 

demons are weak to magic btw, I wouldn't rapier them if I had magic.

Not terribly relevant to the current discussion, but worth mentioning ;o

 

aren't necromancers weak to crush? dunno about stab though.

how about reborn mages? once again not sure.

But dunno, rapier WOULD be nice on shades, who are always a priority to kill.

 

I'm personally swapping to spear soon. Tired of switching from desperado to berserker all the time.

 

Also probably true. I JUST bound a surgebox last night right before I got off and still haven't tried it out, so finding out which ring to upgrade is relevant to my interests.

 

Reading the description of blitzer makes me think that it randomly does or doesn't speed up your casts unless you're T10, which I'm thinking would ruin it for me. I like to flash soul split to heal, and if my cast speed becomes unpredictable then that wouldn't really work. Is that how it actually works or have I misunderstood?

 

I was also thinking the same thing, as far as healing with soul split flashes goes.

would be bad with soul split below tier 10 I suppose for soul split flashing.

Keep in mind that, while you can soul split the bonus damage from blazer, you need to keep soul split up to receive the health.

[All_Is_Great]

Demons are weak to magic? I thought they attacked with magic :blink:

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Demons are weak to magic? I thought they attacked with magic :blink:

yeah, usually monsters with high magic levels have high magic defense.

But we actually tried maging them, and our accuracy was well over 50%, with only an empowered fire staff and shadow hood, no mage armor.

 

I'm guessing they have negative magic defense equipment bonus.

You know how if you have -64 magic atk, you'll never land an accurate hit regardless of your magic level?

Similar logic would apply for negative magic defense bonus. If they had a substantially low magic defense bonus, you would hit accurately on them with magic spells, regardless of their magic/defense levels.

[green9090]

I bound a prom rapier way back when I was a DG noob because that was the best weapon I could strongpot to make at the time. I found that its biggest caveat was being garbage at hitting zombies, skeletons, and high level plate warriors. This was back on the early floors, so obviously I'm missing some monsters, but those remain biggies now. I'm not sure how well magic does on zombies, and even if it hits well, trying to mage ALL zombies AND skeletons will eat runes. Alternatively, the rapier DOES have an aggressive slash attack, so it could be more decent on zombies than back before rings when I used a rapier.

 

I am still really interested in the idea of having one guy with a primal rapier in a perm team to see how much that stab and quick attack speed helps. I'm convinced it'd be better than the longsword bind at least- if nothing else having high DPS on mages and shades would be a big help.

 

As for the demons weak to magic thing, yeah, Jagex has been telling us for years than demons are supposedly weak to magic. However, until dungeoneering this was like saying that chickens are weak to stab- they just had too little defense for a style weakness to come into play. Now, though, it's not surprising that they integrated that weakness into dungeoneering.

[Blutters]

How much time is truly lost if you just mine or set traps as you go along? I don't do so often, but I did on the last W117 I went through and I was untouchable (Katagon, higher Occult floor)... It didn't feel like it took that long, but perhaps our perceptions of time are different.

I'm pretty sure you guys are gonna rip me a new one for even asking this <_<

But the amount of ease VS time spent... :unsure:

[sunnynice]

How much time is truly lost if you just mine or set traps as you go along? I don't do so often, but I did on the last W117 I went through and I was untouchable (Katagon, higher Occult floor)... It didn't feel like it took that long, but perhaps our perceptions of time are different.

I'm pretty sure you guys are gonna rip me a new one for even asking this <_<

But the amount of ease VS time spent... :unsure:

You might be right.

[green9090]

How much time is truly lost if you just mine or set traps as you go along? I don't do so often, but I did on the last W117 I went through and I was untouchable (Katagon, higher Occult floor)... It didn't feel like it took that long, but perhaps our perceptions of time are different.

I'm pretty sure you guys are gonna rip me a new one for even asking this <_<

But the amount of ease VS time spent... :unsure:

If you're using prayer effectively, you shouldn't find armor to be that helpful. Low level enemies go down quickly enough for the damage they do to be negligible, and high level enemies will hit regardless and still require prayer. I'm not saying it doesn't help at all, but I'm saying that the food you save with armor is a fraction of the food you'd make fishing and cooking for that amount of time.

 

I also just see making armor as selfish. Generally there aren't enough rocks for everyone to get some armor until late it the floor when it doesn't really matter because everything you kill is dropping a spam pile of salves anyway. By making yourself armor that you can't share, you're saying that you are more important than everyone else. If anything armor made should go to the keyer, though that's still worth less to them than a nice pile of salves/blues/morays. Fishing food means you leave more on the ground for others and/or can share it, which benefits everyone equally. Other non-selfish actions are making bloodrager pouches and scrolls to speed up bosses and prom/primal warriors and other tank monsters, co-keying doors, farming herbs that could be needed for skill doors, making an altar, making strong pots for the boss, etc. Mostly things that lend themselves to speed rather than safety.

[la la la]

I have T9 blitzer and blazer (those sound like reindeer, maybe i'm tired) and did some experimenting with both today. Mainly due to the delayed damage from blazer, the blitzer is better DPS (and mage xp) and only falls short when it comes to using more runes. Ring is on quick switch t9 gatherer and blitzer now when keying and blitzer/zerker when not. I think it's decent, and that brings up another point:

 

I have found that the best ring for keying, especially with a 2h weapon, is the gatherer ring. Skill doors do a lot more damage than you would expect, and 4 out of 5 deaths I have while keying are from skill doors and subsequent combos. The ring helps drastically.

[Youmu]

If you're using prayer effectively, you shouldn't find armor to be that helpful. Low level enemies go down quickly enough for the damage they do to be negligible, and high level enemies will hit regardless and still require prayer. I'm not saying it doesn't help at all, but I'm saying that the food you save with armor is a fraction of the food you'd make fishing and cooking for that amount of time.

 

I also just see making armor as selfish. Generally there aren't enough rocks for everyone to get some armor until late it the floor when it doesn't really matter because everything you kill is dropping a spam pile of salves anyway. By making yourself armor that you can't share, you're saying that you are more important than everyone else. If anything armor made should go to the keyer, though that's still worth less to them than a nice pile of salves/blues/morays. Fishing food means you leave more on the ground for others and/or can share it, which benefits everyone equally. Other non-selfish actions are making bloodrager pouches and scrolls to speed up bosses and prom/primal warriors and other tank monsters, co-keying doors, farming herbs that could be needed for skill doors, making an altar, making strong pots for the boss, etc. Mostly things that lend themselves to speed rather than safety.

^This. People really need to realize how trivial armor making is. Perhaps then the average dg party will speed up?

 

It really doesn't help protecting against high leveled monsters, and even monsters as low as level 60 can be quite a threat. Don't even get me started on the uselessness in bosses.

 

If anything, the only armor you should be using is from bound slots, drops, or table spawns, and that should go to the keyer first. Not having a piece of armor won't kill you.

 

Not once has armor alone saved me from low LP situations - it is ALWAYS prayer that lets me survive.

[NastyJenny]

He was talking about 117 where your worse foes are your teammates... And making armor pointless nah, you guys must have too good teams then and never have to clear semi easy GD by yourself to speed things up a bit.

[Youmu]

He was talking about 117 where your worse foes are your teammates... And making armor pointless nah, you guys must have too good teams then and never have to clear semi easy GD by yourself to speed things up a bit.

Have you actually tried comparing no-arming/platebody-only to wearing a full set of armor? <_<

[green9090]

He was talking about 117 where your worse foes are your teammates... And making armor pointless nah, you guys must have too good teams then and never have to clear semi easy GD by yourself to speed things up a bit.

If you act as though your teammates are enemies at any point, you are a huge part of the problem with 117. Teamwork is essential, even if they're [bleep]s.

 

That said, I clear easy GDs by myself on pro teams all the time. I'll gate a door, and when the keyer finds the key I go and handle whatever the door throws at me unless it's a group puzzle room or a hard GD (or another key door lol). There's a very small spectrum of floors I would feel comfortable soloing with armor but not without- generally there's a very clear distinction between a room that will mess you up and a room that's hood safe enough to clear solo.

 

From the way you talk I doubt you've ever actually tried a dungeon with no armor. It's not that bad, really.

[Peronix]

A 116 mage just dropped a surgebox... needless to say I destroyed my 125 prom arrows. I almost never used range anyway. Besides, it was never really accurate on the bind-happy mage bosses anyway. Will be extremely useful for dealing with those warriors.

 

Now if only I could get a hood... :-#

[DyingSilent]

A 116 mage just dropped a surgebox... needless to say I destroyed my 125 prom arrows. I almost never used range anyway. Besides, it was never really accurate on the bind-happy mage bosses anyway. Will be extremely useful for dealing with those warriors.

 

Now if only I could get a hood... :-#

 

Wow, deja vu much...Same thing just happened to me lol. And I'm also still in search of a hood...in the past 3 days or so, 8 spiders and 0 hoods -.-

[Shelby_Polo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcdpOE0anus

Ha, just noticed this. I can make a video of me not keying if that's something anyone would like to see.

[TheAncient]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcdpOE0anus

Ha, just noticed this. I can make a video of me not keying if that's something anyone would like to see.

 

Ill probably be doing this too.

[Golvellius]

From the way you talk I doubt you've ever actually tried a dungeon with no armor. It's not that bad, really.

Most people only have 2 binds.

So guess what, we all start out no armour.

First few rooms are brutal, people horde the food, then finally some ore appears and life gets easier.

My favorite part in this whole psuedo discussion/bs affair is where somebody says that fishing is good and making armour is bad.

Lol... with armour you don't need to fish, food on kills is more than enough and you can stock up bob for a boss by the end.

So if your a "pro", you fish/cut lumber/then cook for 5 minutes and complain about somebody taking 2 minutes to gear up.

[TheAncient]

First few rooms are brutal, people horde the food, then finally some ore appears and life gets easier.

"Finally some ore appears"

So if you're at 10 HP in a room full of shades and mages, you'd rather have a platebody than a few food.

 

stock up bob for a boss by the end

Please give me a screenshot of any level 100+ DGer with a Bob. Please also give me a video where a group of 100+ DGers (with ~2 Hexes) need to use more than an average of 10 food each on a boss.

 

Lol... with armour you don't need to fish, food on kills is more than enough

So why do people with 3 binds - hood plate weapon - die?

 

So if your a "pro", you fish/cut lumber/then cook for 5 minutes and complain about somebody taking 2 minutes to gear up.

I don't even know how to responds to this.

First, you pretend as though someone who has armor does not need food. You clearly do not dungeoneer properly if you think so.

Second, the video of our run is right in front of you. If you really care, try and time how much time we spend on cooking/fishing/wc. I would be highly skeptical if our team spent a collective 5 minutes on gathering food. Plus keep in mind that even when we do so, we usually make enough to help everyone out, instead of just gearing up one player.

 

[SirIzenhime]

I don't even know how to responds to this.

First, you pretend as though someone who has armor does not need food. You clearly do not dungeoneer properly if you think so.

Second, the video of our run is right in front of you. If you really care, try and time how much time we spend on cooking/fishing/wc. I would be highly skeptical if our team spent a collective 5 minutes on gathering food. Plus keep in mind that even when we do so, we usually make enough to help everyone out, instead of just gearing up one player.

 

Sounds like you did know how to respond to that :P

[NastyJenny]

He was talking about 117 where your worse foes are your teammates... And making armor pointless nah, you guys must have too good teams then and never have to clear semi easy GD by yourself to speed things up a bit.

If you act as though your teammates are enemies at any point, you are a huge part of the problem with 117. Teamwork is essential, even if they're [bleep]s.

 

That said, I clear easy GDs by myself on pro teams all the time. I'll gate a door, and when the keyer finds the key I go and handle whatever the door throws at me unless it's a group puzzle room or a hard GD (or another key door lol). There's a very small spectrum of floors I would feel comfortable soloing with armor but not without- generally there's a very clear distinction between a room that will mess you up and a room that's hood safe enough to clear solo.

 

From the way you talk I doubt you've ever actually tried a dungeon with no armor. It's not that bad, really.

 

Sadly not everyone has access to pro-teams. Hood sure helps limit damage overall but you still get beaten up badly by range/melee when hood disabled (yes with simply a hood solo a level 60 zombie is worth around 150lp of food). I never go out of the way to make armor, same with fishing unless it's a matter of life and death, pick up herbs, often plant some, chop maybe later needed logs...

 

Starts a W117 dung :

Who keys ?

Who tools ? everyone should tool (yeah right they say mostly)

I'm making some laws and cosmics now. 'Need hammer' you hear allready......

5-6 rooms later 2 people hoard most of the food... And of course have none for the keyer that really needs it

Hard GD : lets pick up the food of the newly slain instead of killing first to save some food overall (1st death of someone)

Comes a potable smithing door : lycopus anyone ? I saw one 'somewhere...' then why didn't you pick it up...

To the guy with 300k because he is 99 thieving and found some good chests : make altar please ? 'I need it, just make one yourself'

Fianlly boss time : Necrolord cool let's make bows from the logs at base, wait some idiot deciced to level up his fletching and make 'arrow shafts'

 

I may exagerate when i said ennemy about teammates but still... All of the above happened recently.

 

Gonna watch that vid, maybe learn a trick or 2

[Star.]

That vidya was super helpful :thumbup: Learnt a lot there.

 

Celestial Surgeboxes are good?! I saw one and disregarded it not knowing what to do with it.

 

EDIT: Ah, my rc level isn't high enough. It's okey.