Dungeonsweepers (DGS) - Huge changes; read first post.

[green9090]

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=t49RFgWHkV6pwsHOqOYrTxQ#gid=0

 

No ampersand.

 

WAT DO

[Obtaurian]

Should've really been Charlie Sheen instead of Hope, William Wallace instead of Dread, and George instead of Gorger.

[muuuuuuuuuu]

Screenshots are important!

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU SCREENSHOT YOUR FLOORS FOR TWO REASONS:

1- It's easier to screenshot first, then input the data into the spreadsheet later if you're doing a row.

2- Proof, should we ever come asking for it.

 

Here's a python library which can be used to save the image without opening paint: http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

To use this, you must first have python installed: http://python.org/download/

Get the latest 2.x version.

 

Once Python and PIL are installed, the following Python and AHK scripts will capture the screen and save the resulting image with the push of one button.

from PIL import ImageGrab
import os
imgdir="c:/dungeoneering_pictures" #change this if you wish for them to be saved in a different directory
base="floor" #change this if you wish for the base image name to be different
num=sum([1 for f in os.listdir(imgdir) if f[:len(base)]==base])+1
box=(440,262,925,564) #this extracts just the winterface, will take some trial-error to figure out what works for your system
#What's needed is (x0,x1,y0,y1) where (x0,y0) is the upper left corner of the winterface, (x1,y1) is the lower right corner.
#These are measured with respect to the upper left corner of the original image being (0,0).
ImageGrab.grabclipboard().crop((440,262,925,564)).save("%s/%s%s.png"%(imgdir,base,num))

Save this as "saveclipboard.py" and remember the directory. Then, use the following AHK script (bound to numlock like grimy's previous script)

Numlock::
{
SendInput !{PrintScreen}
Run, python c:\python26-32bit\saveclipboard.py
}

replacing it with the place you saved the saveclipboard.py file on your computer.

[green9090]

ALSO Swiftkit autosaves screenshots.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

If anybody is having trouble with downloading and setting up the spreadsheet, just share the spreadsheet with me

so look at the top right

share -> Add People -> [email protected] -> Can Edit

 

and then give me the link.

I'll fix it up for you.

[DyingSilent]

If I want to be in DGS and key (not as a rank, just as a regular person), how fast do members expect their keyers to be? I can do 40 minutes occults in w148 with randoms, which probably translates to 35 minutes or so with people that know what they are doing (w148ers, for instance, seem to rarely have surgebox bound, and not know how to prioritize GDs, etc). My fastest is a 31 min abandoned (no dead doors, though a key was missed but I luckily guessed correctly where it was). It's pretty intimidating seeing all the less than 25 minute and sometimes less than 20 minute screenshots posted in this thread, and I don't want to key a floor and then have people mad at me for being too slow. If it matters, I'm 91 dung at the moment.

 

Also, how does one go about actually joining a clan? I never really understood the whole clan camp thing, but I've done a few dungs with you guys as a guest in the chat and really enjoyed it.

Let people know you're a new keyer beforehand. I did a 55 minute with a certain clan member who tried to learn keying, and it didn't matter because I knew he was new. It's good to see new people step up and start learning to key, regardless of how much they suck at first. You'll get better quickly anyway.

 

I agree with Greg here, I don't mind slow floors with new people. I may come off as a jerk sometimes when I key, but it's the teaching that counts. People I've yelled at either corrected their mistakes and I've seen no problems with them since, or they avoid DGing with me now :P

 

But regardless, it's the willingness to learn that counts, not necessarily the times.

[Cactuaar]

Should we include floors which weren't done with DGSers, or only floors that have at least 3 DGSers or something? Also, I have screenshotted around 150 floors over the past month, with the dates included. Should those be included? Or just the ones starting from today?

[green9090]

Another question- this is just for the floors we key, right?

[Andy]

Doesn't matter I'd assume. It's just to see what keyers are like in DGS. (in response to weirdwo's post.)

[exterrrr]

ALSO Swiftkit autosaves screenshots.

Fraps also autosaves screenshots.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Another question- this is just for the floors we key, right?

Preferably yes, but the spreadsheet is coded to filter out floors you do not key.

So at the end of the day, it actually doesn't matter.

 

Should we include floors which weren't done with DGSers, or only floors that have at least 3 DGSers or something? Also, I have screenshotted around 150 floors over the past month, with the dates included. Should those be included? Or just the ones starting from today?

You don't NEED to fill out all the columns.

all I'm really looking for is deaths/level mod/bonus rooms/floor time

 

but the more you fill out, the better.

I'd prefer you only include floors done with at least yourself and one other DGSer

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I just added a bunch of doodads to the spreadsheet!

You'll probably need to make a fresh copy of my current spreadsheet, so the new doodads are working too.

 

Once again, you'll know you're done when I have the link to your spreadsheet, and your data is up and running on the following page:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en&hl=en&key=0AldEhLOK6ejJdGZDZFMzZm9qRm9rZkU5YWNrMGNDR1E&output=html

[PureIsMwa]

Keyer binds:

Hood, Prom 2h, Cele staff?

 

Need critique on how cele would be effective as a keyer, if that

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Keyer binds:

Hood, Prom 2h, Cele staff?

 

Need critique on how cele would be effective as a keyer, if that

Cele staff is good for learning how to survive without armor.

But I prefer platebody for keying.

But I keyed without armor before I picked up a platebody.

It's good practice to take the hard route early on.

 

But at the end of the day, what percentage of your floors do you actually key?

if it's not more than 50%, definitely stick with cele cat.

 

the bind guidelines are: Platebody if a player keys at least 75% of the time.

 

As for cele cat, just be aware that it's bad to have TOO MANY cele cats on the same team.

More than one, and you start competing over fire rune drops, which is bad.

but this is practically never the case.

[PureIsMwa]

Keyer binds:

Hood, Prom 2h, Cele staff?

 

Need critique on how cele would be effective as a keyer, if that

Cele staff is good for learning how to survive without armor.

But I prefer platebody for keying.

But I keyed without armor before I picked up a platebody.

It's good practice to take the hard route early on.

 

But at the end of the day, what percentage of your floors do you actually key?

if it's not more than 50%, definitely stick with cele cat.

 

I key 95% of my floors

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Keyer binds:

Hood, Prom 2h, Cele staff?

 

Need critique on how cele would be effective as a keyer, if that

Cele staff is good for learning how to survive without armor.

But I prefer platebody for keying.

But I keyed without armor before I picked up a platebody.

It's good practice to take the hard route early on.

 

But at the end of the day, what percentage of your floors do you actually key?

if it's not more than 50%, definitely stick with cele cat.

 

I key 95% of my floors

Then either pick up a platebody right away, or key a few floors with cele cat until you're good at surviving without platebody armor, then get it.

[green9090]

Cele cat would not be good for a keyer, because it requires you to hunt out fire runes, which the keyer shouldn't have time for. Primal gauntlets would be good though, if you want to no armor it up. I key with a blood necklace and like it a lot.

[notasoupbowl]

Cele cat would not be good for a keyer, because it requires you to hunt out fire runes, which the keyer shouldn't have time for. Primal gauntlets would be good though, if you want to no armor it up. I key with a blood necklace and like it a lot.

keyer should not be meleeing as others, so mage / range bonuses are better

so no primal gaunts are bad, same with blood neck

often you should be finishing a gd maging standing by the door

or with hex you start all gds with it

 

mage also lets you kill stuff over grapple rooms if ur low total

helps a lot more in warped than in occult though

 

cele cat is good if you have a wingman who will make you fires

if not, for the keyer I suggest emp fire staff or plate

 

Also I do agree that platebody is a good bind for the keyer assuming you don't have someone making you dino armour

 

 

to survive with mage you really have to safespot most melee monsters by walking around them, you can also pray range during gds since being bound doesn't matter w/ mage, and with fire runes you should be maging most things

 

edit: obt pointed out that cel cat staff has 20 mage def, which is also nice for shades or gds w/ range pray

[green9090]

Counting on having a wingman who makes you fires doesn't seem like a good model to me. Sure, you might have it sometimes, but that's not going to be an every floor thing, and when you don't you're going to suffer for it.

 

I'm not sure where your logic that keyers can't melee is coming from. It's not very uncommon to hit a GD with one forgotten ranger or zombie or ranging skeleton in it and just take it out myself, and I'm definitely not going to be maging that. The last monsters left in a GD are also usually zombies and skeletons due to the whole hood thing, and those are by far best taken care of with a battleaxe and blood necklace. The healing effect of the necklace is non trivial as well.

 

As for ending every GD maging from the door, that's usually not feasible for one reason or another, and is an extremely trivial benefit compared to running away from the last monster a couple hits before it dies and opening the door as the team finishes it off.

 

This is not to say a keyer can't be effective with a cele cat, but I'd definitely strongly consider an empowered fire staff over it, and I think a blood neck is overall a superior bind. 10% extra Melee DPS and a passive healing effect is useful all the time.

[nikcevich_m]

My Key times sheet for grimy

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=tEQSq_mpNrFxsQxuEmE4AKQ#gid=0

[notasoupbowl]

Counting on having a wingman who makes you fires doesn't seem like a good model to me. Sure, you might have it sometimes, but that's not going to be an every floor thing, and when you don't you're going to suffer for it.

 

I'm not sure where your logic that keyers can't melee is coming from. It's not very uncommon to hit a GD with one forgotten ranger or zombie or ranging skeleton in it and just take it out myself, and I'm definitely not going to be maging that. The last monsters left in a GD are also usually zombies and skeletons due to the whole hood thing, and those are by far best taken care of with a battleaxe and blood necklace. The healing effect of the necklace is non trivial as well.

 

As for ending every GD maging from the door, that's usually not feasible for one reason or another, and is an extremely trivial benefit compared to running away from the last monster a couple hits before it dies and opening the door as the team finishes it off.

 

This is not to say a keyer can't be effective with a cele cat, but I'd definitely strongly consider an empowered fire staff over it, and I think a blood neck is overall a superior bind. 10% extra Melee DPS and a passive healing effect is useful all the time.

If you can't count on a wingman to do stuff for you, then you should have a plate bind. They make you dino armour, they can make you fire runes. Maybe on a good team there are other skilling things to do first, so that's why emp fire is an option.

 

Also, you can always switch to berserker after killing something if you prefer. But maging w/ cat staff is supposed to be superior to prim 2h. You can mage skeles and zombs, just not forgotten rangers or mages etc.

The healing effect of the necklace is very tiny for the keyer. As the keyer I do not want to purposely get meleers on me and have to waste pray.

Being able to attack things as you run through gds or from the door is not a huge reason, but its still nice.

 

Basically I think that although blood neck is a good dps bind, it is not as good for the keyer. The staff + magic allows for far more survivability than blood neck with safespotting melee'ers. You really have to hide behind people or monsters a lot though.

 

It might be partially personal preferance, but I hated blood neck as a 3rd bind, I think it is way more suited to non-keyers.

I also have not tried emp cat staff, but I have bound emp fire staff twice before as my 3rd bind (plate > staff > plate > neck > plate > staff > hex I think)

(I'm 98 mage)

But I do admit I prefer plate bind to staff or neck, having to eat a lot is really annoying

Only would want a staff with a good team

 

 

Does anyone know what the dps of emp fire staff w/ blazer compares to prom 2h / primal b axe / primal 2h etc.

[green9090]

Ugh. My first two floors after starting my floor time log were utter [cabbage]- the first was a full map with GDs and pot doors everywhere and Necro boss with no hexes- 35:15, confident I couldn't have gotten it below 30 with perfect keying. The second floor there was just nothing to key, as we were one wayed at GDs pretty much the whole time. 30:15, Could only have been better with a team that was faster at doing GDs. Two of my worst floors in weeks entirely through bad floor luck -.-

[xpx]

Ugh. My first two floors after starting my floor time log were utter [cabbage]- the first was a full map with GDs and pot doors everywhere and Necro boss with no hexes- 35:15, confident I couldn't have gotten it below 30 with perfect keying. The second floor there was just nothing to key, as we were one wayed at GDs pretty much the whole time. 30:15, Could only have been better with a team that was faster at doing GDs. Two of my worst floors in weeks entirely through bad floor luck -.-

If you get bogged down by a couple of slower floors then try to start the next few with 2 very good wingmen to ensure a good time. While keying for newbs can be considered admirable, if a good keyer starts getting really slow floors, it's down to the team entirely.

[Stommel]

Ugh. My first two floors after starting my floor time log were utter [cabbage]- the first was a full map with GDs and pot doors everywhere and Necro boss with no hexes- 35:15, confident I couldn't have gotten it below 30 with perfect keying. The second floor there was just nothing to key, as we were one wayed at GDs pretty much the whole time. 30:15, Could only have been better with a team that was faster at doing GDs. Two of my worst floors in weeks entirely through bad floor luck -.-

If you get bogged down by a couple of slower floors then try to start the next few with 2 very good wingmen to ensure a good time. While keying for newbs can be considered admirable, if a good keyer starts getting really slow floors, it's down to the team entirely.

 

 

Yeah, I can tell once i've got a good nuber of floors done on there, i'm gonna end up with a few of those 40 min floors i get every now and then ^.^

 

EDIT: Thought I'd make it public so people can make sure i put all floors down (I tend to put them on straight after the floor anyway)

 

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=tfIQiG-UjpkkpHJWR3X_Nuw#gid=0

[ghjkl]

Counting on having a wingman who makes you fires doesn't seem like a good model to me. Sure, you might have it sometimes, but that's not going to be an every floor thing, and when you don't you're going to suffer for it.

 

I'm not sure where your logic that keyers can't melee is coming from. It's not very uncommon to hit a GD with one forgotten ranger or zombie or ranging skeleton in it and just take it out myself, and I'm definitely not going to be maging that. The last monsters left in a GD are also usually zombies and skeletons due to the whole hood thing, and those are by far best taken care of with a battleaxe and blood necklace. The healing effect of the necklace is non trivial as well.

 

As for ending every GD maging from the door, that's usually not feasible for one reason or another, and is an extremely trivial benefit compared to running away from the last monster a couple hits before it dies and opening the door as the team finishes it off.

 

This is not to say a keyer can't be effective with a cele cat, but I'd definitely strongly consider an empowered fire staff over it, and I think a blood neck is overall a superior bind. 10% extra Melee DPS and a passive healing effect is useful all the time.

If you can't count on a wingman to do stuff for you, then you should have a plate bind. They make you dino armour, they can make you fire runes. Maybe on a good team there are other skilling things to do first, so that's why emp fire is an option.

 

Also, you can always switch to berserker after killing something if you prefer. But maging w/ cat staff is supposed to be superior to prim 2h. You can mage skeles and zombs, just not forgotten rangers or mages etc.

The healing effect of the necklace is very tiny for the keyer. As the keyer I do not want to purposely get meleers on me and have to waste pray.

Being able to attack things as you run through gds or from the door is not a huge reason, but its still nice.

 

Basically I think that although blood neck is a good dps bind, it is not as good for the keyer. The staff + magic allows for far more survivability than blood neck with safespotting melee'ers. You really have to hide behind people or monsters a lot though.

 

It might be partially personal preferance, but I hated blood neck as a 3rd bind, I think it is way more suited to non-keyers.

I also have not tried emp cat staff, but I have bound emp fire staff twice before as my 3rd bind (plate > staff > plate > neck > plate > staff > hex I think)

(I'm 98 mage)

But I do admit I prefer plate bind to staff or neck, having to eat a lot is really annoying

Only would want a staff with a good team

 

 

Does anyone know what the dps of emp fire staff w/ blazer compares to prom 2h / primal b axe / primal 2h etc.

dps with fire surge and emp fire staff is a max of 462 damage per 3.6 seconds, comparable to 460 with prim 2h

therefore the only real reason to use it is for demons/warriors

with turm flashing prim 2h overtakes mage on everything else