The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Tim]

what bolts CAN be used with dual rune c'bows? I cant even use ruby (e). :\

 

I just wanted to see how fast I can kill a dragon/TD/something with lots of HP

[Alg]

I've heard that this will basically ruin pures, is there any truth to that?

Yep. Defense became the one true skill, and combat levels are calculated differently. It... Still needs a bit of tweaking.

 

I'm not exaggerating at all. Defense is necessary now.

[The Runar]

what bolts CAN be used with dual rune c'bows? I cant even use ruby (e). :\

 

I just wanted to see how fast I can kill a dragon/TD/something with lots of HP

 

Runite bolts or enchanted bolts up to sapphire I think. Unenchanted ruby bolts also work.

 

Jagex explained how the system works. You need level 60 crossbow for enchanted ruby bolts and level 70 for enchanted diamond bolts. They're adding more crossbows in the future.

[Sinkhan]

I've heard that this will basically ruin pures, is there any truth to that?

Yep. Defense became the one true skill, and combat levels are calculated differently. It... Still needs a bit of tweaking.

 

I'm not exaggerating at all. Defense is necessary now.

 

What about rune pures?

[Sir_Squab]

The better your armour, the more your max health. I could see Rune Pures working in F2P, simply because there's nothing better. (The dragon PVP stuff doesn't count.) In P2P, you'd get trashed by a guy in better armour because he has significantly more health.

 

One thing I noticed is when I used chaotic staff vs virtus wand + book, my adrenaline seemed to go up WAY slower. Assuming this is true, it needs to be fixed. (To be fair, I spend probably 15 seconds using that staff, so I'd need to use it a bit more to be sure.)

[Hedgehog]

Basically, levels are only useful for unlocking equipment and abilities. I'm sure there are some good pure builds. We just need to figure them out.

[roky95]

Why are people knocking the beta? Been playing and slaying for a coupla hours now and I'm enjoying it immensely, combat is now way more immersive than it is live

 

The only gripe I have with it so far is that my range tank is now effectively useless lol :3

 

Also so far as I can tell, mage has become the new melee as with barrage I've been destroying all slayer monsters lawlll :rolleyes:

[Sy_Accursed]

The better your armour, the more your max health. I could see Rune Pures working in F2P, simply because there's nothing better. (The dragon PVP stuff doesn't count.) In P2P, you'd get trashed by a guy in better armour because he has significantly more health.

 

One thing I noticed is when I used chaotic staff vs virtus wand + book, my adrenaline seemed to go up WAY slower. Assuming this is true, it needs to be fixed. (To be fair, I spend probably 15 seconds using that staff, so I'd need to use it a bit more to be sure.)

 

That'd be to do with attack speed not a bug, you get adrenaline per attack (or ability).

Staves which are 2h are slower and therefore you do less attacks.

Wand + book is dual wielding which doubles attack speed so you do alot more attacks.

[Jonanananas]

Is it just me or is there no real potential for useful combos? I didn't spend too much time in the beta yet, only weekend access and getting annoyed quite fast, but I've had a look at the abilities and to me it seems the only potential combos are with stunning, and either moving away, or using an ability that does increased damage on stunned/unmoving.

[Omali]

Why are people knocking the beta? Been playing and slaying for a coupla hours now and I'm enjoying it immensely, combat is now way more immersive than it is live

 

I'm more interested in the people who think that the new system requires "no skill at all," considering they've been saying the same exact thing about every combat update for the past decade.

[brunokiller]

It doesn't require more skill than before.

 

The only thing that changed is that pve is now a buttonmash grind.

[HunterDexter]

Yeah, because this will surely attract new members, even more buttonsmashing!!! I really hate the combat overhaul, over the past weeks I've spend quite a few hours on it and I dislike it heavily. I play Runescape because it is lightweighted and I can combine it while doing other stuff on my computer. With this update, I constantly must spamclick abilities, must search intensively after just a teleport spell and feel very ineffective whenever I don't use those abilities, because the normal attacks are so slow. Also, the removal of 100% protection from prayers against npcs makes it very hard for a casual gamer as me, "just use the abilities to deflect damage they say", well, so I have to whack defensive abiities constantly to not die at stuff like mummies, skeleton monkeys,...

 

I do support a rehaul of combat, but NOT as Jagex want's to do it, where all your dps depends on abilities. Abilities should be a little extra, not the "main" damage. And a lot of stuff with armours is messed up.

[Leon S]

Is there any point in using a staff instead of a wand + offhand? I'm using a virtus wand + FKS right now and I get the same hit bonus as I would get with my chaotic staff, and on top of that I get a massive defence and LP boost and defensive abilities :/

[HunterDexter]

In my opinion, no, in terms of damaga output, it feels about the same, but with the staff you get a lot more HP, so I say staffs are new dead content, if it won't change.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Is there any point in using a staff instead of a wand + offhand? I'm using a virtus wand + FKS right now and I get the same hit bonus as I would get with my chaotic staff, and on top of that I get a massive defence and LP boost and defensive abilities :/

I think staves increase the damage output of your spells? Not entirely sure though.

[Leon S]

Is there any point in using a staff instead of a wand + offhand? I'm using a virtus wand + FKS right now and I get the same hit bonus as I would get with my chaotic staff, and on top of that I get a massive defence and LP boost and defensive abilities :/

I think staves increase the damage output of your spells? Not entirely sure though.

 

Maybe. My Damage on Autocast Info doesn't change (342 if I have Ice Barrage set on auto-cast) even if I'm not wearing any weapon :P The Equipment Bonuses screen isn't very useful right now. It should display a lot more info.

 

I get a 430 critical hit when using my virtus wand, 637 wearing my chaotic staff. Abilities deal the same damage whether if you're using a wand or a staff it seems.

 

Edit: this is so weird. I get a 1720 critical hit when using Asphyxiate with a virtus wand + FKS and 1680 when using a chaotic staff? o.O I hit less with a staff.

 

Edit II: wow, Torment makes a TINY difference. I hit 342 max without an overload and Torment and 356 with only Torment on? Dat 0,4% difference.

[Alg]

Abilities deal the same damage whether if you're using a wand or a staff it seems.

That needs a bug report. Pretty sure they're supposed to get a damage boost like other 2h weapons.

[Leon S]

Overloads still give a 21% boost to your Magic damage. 513 max increases to 620 with Ice Blitz, using a staff.

 

Rofl... even with a wolpertinger, which only boosts your Magic by 7 levels, I can still hit 620 with a staff. Level boosts for Magic work in the EXACT same way as they do right now in the live game: capped at 21%, increasing by 3% per level. What the hell Jagex, I was hoping you would have balanced this out.

 

With an extreme magic potion, if it drops below 116, you still get the 21% boost. As long as your Magic is boosted at 105 or higher your damage will be capped. You won't lose any damage if your level drops from 116 to 105. Nice balancing Jagex...

[Ambler]

So extreme magics are better than overloads when maging for <5 minutes? That's how it should be be imo.

[Leon S]

So extreme magics are better than overloads when maging for <5 minutes? That's how it should be be imo.

 

No, they're the same when it comes to damage output. If you're maging for less than 5 minutes, your Magic will be at 111, meaning you still get the 21% bonus. You'll probably lose out on some accuracy though, because overloads boost your Magic back every time.

[Th e Doctor]

The problem imo is too many abilities. If I wanted to execute a perfect rotation for max dps I would go back to playing my death knight in WoW.

 

Melee should be unlock 1 ability at levels 10 20 and 30 (3 abilities total) for attack. Levels 40 50 60 / 70 80 90 should upgrade those three abilities respectively. 99 would get you your 4th and last ability.

 

Strength would modify the % damage done for each ability every level from 1-99

 

Defense should provide 1 defensive cool down ability at 30, upgraded at 60 and 90, and a final cool down at 99. Additionally it should provide a %damage reduction for each level 1-99 maxing at 10%.

 

Every ability would act uniquely based on what you are wielding (2h, dual wield, 1h w/shield).

 

mage and range I haven't played around with yet.

 

Edit

 

Runescapes beauty has always been in its simplicity. Taking it away from that is just going to lose players to other mmos that do complex better than runescape is even capable of. (Swtor and wow being the most obvious examples)

[999134]

at first I kind of liked the update, as I have played it more decided I am against it.

Hate the fact that armour no longer has slash/stab/crush defence, so items like stat hammers or cmauls suck a lot more.

 

Also no more att/def switching for staking :thumbdown:

[bones-to-peaches]

It doesn't require more skill than before.

 

The only thing that changed is that pve is now a buttonmash grind.

 

How is learning how to use new abilities in sync to increase damage output not an increase in skill? You're really suggesting that picking and choosing skills, organizing it on a bar, and working out their abilities takes the same amount of skill as clicking and watching? It may not be a HUGE increase of skill, but it definitely has a skill factor to it. The button mashing can get a tad annoying but end of the day, good with the bad, I'm damn excited about this update.

[stonewall337]

The problem imo is too many abilities. If I wanted to execute a perfect rotation for max dps I would go back to playing my death knight in WoW.

 

Melee should be unlock 1 ability at levels 10 20 and 30 (3 abilities total) for attack. Levels 40 50 60 / 70 80 90 should upgrade those three abilities respectively. 99 would get you your 4th and last ability.

 

Strength would modify the % damage done for each ability every level from 1-99

 

Defense should provide 1 defensive cool down ability at 30, upgraded at 60 and 90, and a final cool down at 99. Additionally it should provide a %damage reduction for each level 1-99 maxing at 10%.

 

Every ability would act uniquely based on what you are wielding (2h, dual wield, 1h w/shield).

 

mage and range I haven't played around with yet.

 

Edit

 

Runescapes beauty has always been in its simplicity. Taking it away from that is just going to lose players to other mmos that do complex better than runescape is even capable of. (Swtor and wow being the most obvious examples)

 

But death knight have a 3 button rotation :P

[Th e Doctor]

The problem imo is too many abilities. If I wanted to execute a perfect rotation for max dps I would go back to playing my death knight in WoW.

 

Melee should be unlock 1 ability at levels 10 20 and 30 (3 abilities total) for attack. Levels 40 50 60 / 70 80 90 should upgrade those three abilities respectively. 99 would get you your 4th and last ability.

 

Strength would modify the % damage done for each ability every level from 1-99

 

Defense should provide 1 defensive cool down ability at 30, upgraded at 60 and 90, and a final cool down at 99. Additionally it should provide a %damage reduction for each level 1-99 maxing at 10%.

 

Every ability would act uniquely based on what you are wielding (2h, dual wield, 1h w/shield).

 

mage and range I haven't played around with yet.

 

Edit

 

Runescapes beauty has always been in its simplicity. Taking it away from that is just going to lose players to other mmos that do complex better than runescape is even capable of. (Swtor and wow being the most obvious examples)

 

But death knight have a 3 button rotation :P

 

Things must have changed. Back when I played unholy in icc there was 5 abilities in your main rotation ( bound on q, e 1 2 3) and then 4 more situational abilities for AoE and crowd control. And it was more of a priority system at that point.