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The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion


Leon S

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Will the max roll formulas be changed to (level+bonus)*prayer*mod? This will allow prayers and potions to be more effective and no longer useless.

 

Could monster defense ratings be visible?

 

Can the cooldown between abilities be increased to discourage button mashing?

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As an aside why not just make pots and prayer effect weapon damage instead of levels.

 

That would be an excellent way to devalue skill level even more than it already is. The real fix is to make your skill level play much more of a role in your DPS...at least on par with weapon damage.

 

except you need levels to use weapons?

 

Personally I don't think that a 29 point difference in max hit between someone using a whip with level 70 atk/str and someone using a whip with lvl 99 atk/str is acceptable. Especially when the max hits are now in the thousands.

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As an aside why not just make pots and prayer effect weapon damage instead of levels.

 

That would be an excellent way to devalue skill level even more than it already is. The real fix is to make your skill level play much more of a role in your DPS...at least on par with weapon damage.

 

except you need levels to use weapons?

 

Personally I don't think that a 29 point difference in max hit between someone using a whip with level 70 atk/str and someone using a whip with lvl 99 atk/str is acceptable. Especially when the max hits are now in the thousands.

 

The thing is, the person with 99 attack has access to chaotics, which are MUCH more powerful than a whip. However, once you hit the highest item tier and you have all the abilities unlocked, there isn't very much reason to keep training. I think Jagex is planning on releasing new items (and maybe abilities) all the way up to 99. Probably through Player Owned Ports.

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Question for livestream:

 

Will we see extended action bars for certain situations where the current bar is too small, such as an additional bar on top of the current one accessed immediately by shift/ctrl/alt/etc + the existing number. Currently we can have a bar full of abilities but then no space for prayers/summon/items in addition to abilities, and this would fix the problem of a delay when switching between existing "single" action bars.

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As an aside why not just make pots and prayer effect weapon damage instead of levels.

 

That would be an excellent way to devalue skill level even more than it already is. The real fix is to make your skill level play much more of a role in your DPS...at least on par with weapon damage.

 

except you need levels to use weapons?

 

Personally I don't think that a 29 point difference in max hit between someone using a whip with level 70 atk/str and someone using a whip with lvl 99 atk/str is acceptable. Especially when the max hits are now in the thousands.

 

The thing is, the person with 99 attack has access to chaotics, which are MUCH more powerful than a whip. However, once you hit the highest item tier and you have all the abilities unlocked, there isn't very much reason to keep training. I think Jagex is planning on releasing new items (and maybe abilities) all the way up to 99. Probably through Player Owned Ports.

 

For PVM I think this is true, typically people will use the highest item they can (provided they can afford it). For PVP though, not very many people use chaotics since the cost of losing them is so great. Besides all of this it still devalues strength training, which I also don't think is right.

Have the courage to change the things you can, the patience to accept the things you can't, and the wisdom to know the difference.

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Will there be better thrown and arrow ammunition? As it stands now, rune arrows are realistically the best shield-bow ammunition and rune javelins/throwing axes aren't that great for medium level to high level players (e.g., 80+ range).

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Will there be better thrown and arrow ammunition? As it stands now, rune arrows are realistically the best shield-bow ammunition and rune javelins/throwing axes aren't that great for medium level to high level players (e.g., 80+ range).

 

Rune thrown axes have 791 damage while CCB with dragon bolts has 699. Axes only have 4 range though so probably not so great for pvp.

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Can we have more slayer blocks, since more tasks may became undesirable (i.e. you may want to skip all/most melee tasks if you're 99 att/str)?

 

Can certain weapons (such as thrownaxes and javelins) be made more accessible and more powerful? Or create dragon/gwd tier versions. Currently they're extremely weak and hard to obtain, so no one uses them.

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The action bar would be a good update even before the EoC. Something tells me though that the engine running it would introduce a lot of bugs if they don't do it completely with the rest of EoC. Mod Mark would know the answer better.

 

My question is can they introduce a two tier method to monster weakness. The monster is weak to either magic, range or melee in addition to being very strong against another leg. After that, it's a matter of being slightly more weaker (or stronger) against three sub-types in those legs. Seems better than just having 1 style out of 9 outshining everything.

 

Another question is with Lifepoints drastically raising with putting on armor, have they thought of adding monks to hang around the areas of the musicians or just allow resting at musicians to heal lifepoints (and maybe prayer?). This offers simple healing around the map and saves people doing a home teleport to Edgeville for free healing at the monastary there.

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The action bar would be a good update even before the EoC. Something tells me though that the engine running it would introduce a lot of bugs if they don't do it completely with the rest of EoC. Mod Mark would know the answer better.

 

My question is can they introduce a two tier method to monster weakness. The monster is weak to either magic, range or melee in addition to being very strong against another leg. After that, it's a matter of being slightly more weaker (or stronger) against three sub-types in those legs. Seems better than just having 1 style out of 9 outshining everything.

 

Another question is with Lifepoints drastically raising with putting on armor, have they thought of adding monks to hang around the areas of the musicians or just allow resting at musicians to heal lifepoints (and maybe prayer?). This offers simple healing around the map and saves people doing a home teleport to Edgeville for free healing at the monastary there.

 

I think J-Mods mentioned they were working something so that it would be possible to regenerate health after putting on armor without using food. But I don't think this would be the best solution, it would be way to easy to abuse.

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Have the courage to change the things you can, the patience to accept the things you can't, and the wisdom to know the difference.

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My question is can they introduce a two tier method to monster weakness. The monster is weak to either magic, range or melee in addition to being very strong against another leg. After that, it's a matter of being slightly more weaker (or stronger) against three sub-types in those legs. Seems better than just having 1 style out of 9 outshining everything.

 

I have been waiting for this since they released EoC. Seems to make much more sense to me.

 

I guess this would only apply to spells (since ideally the DPS of all other classes should be equal within the same tier) but it would be interesting to see, if they did this update, whether using the correct, but weaker spell, or using a stronger, non-correct spell would provide more DPS.

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They need to lower the damage boost that staves give. Staves deal 225% spell damage right now. Just compare the damage to that of a chaotic maul:

 

Polypore Strike does 862 damage at level 99. Equip your polypore staff and it's damage is increased to 1939. Attack speed of 3.6 means 538,61 DPS.

 

A chaotic maul does 1757 damage at level 99. Attack speed of 3.6 as well, meaning it does 488,05 DPS.

 

They should lower the damage boost that staves give by 25% to balance it out.

 

I have limited beta access, so can anyone check for me how much damage dual casting does? Is it 100% damage with a 1.8 attack speed?

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I think the most logical thing would be to have it all happen at once

 

Yeppers, just like a band-aid. Tear it off in one sudden (and terribly painful) ... :huh: :blink:

 

Wait, I'm not sure I like this analogy! :unsure:

Do you like peeling off bandaids slowly?

As an aside why not just make pots and prayer effect weapon damage instead of levels.

 

That would be an excellent way to devalue skill level even more than it already is. The real fix is to make your skill level play much more of a role in your DPS...at least on par with weapon damage.

 

except you need levels to use weapons?

I think he meant like, personal skill. Not your RS character stats, but rather YOU as in how good you are at... mashing buttons. Yeah, that's something else that needs to be fixed.

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I have limited beta access, so can anyone check for me how much damage dual casting does? Is it 100% damage with a 1.8 attack speed?

I think it's 75% damage, 1.2 attack speed.

 

My question is can they introduce a two tier method to monster weakness. The monster is weak to either magic, range or melee in addition to being very strong against another leg. After that, it's a matter of being slightly more weaker (or stronger) against three sub-types in those legs. Seems better than just having 1 style out of 9 outshining everything.

 

I have been waiting for this since they released EoC. Seems to make much more sense to me.

 

I guess this would only apply to spells (since ideally the DPS of all other classes should be equal within the same tier) but it would be interesting to see, if they did this update, whether using the correct, but weaker spell, or using a stronger, non-correct spell would provide more DPS.

Creature weaknesses directly involve the combat triangle, with the specific weakness standing slightly ahead of the other types in that corner of the triangle. So if a monster has a Slash weakness, it is more susceptible to melee attacks, normally defensive against ranged attacks, and resistant to magic attacks. In this case, though, using a Slash weapon would be 15% more accurate than using a melee weapon in general.

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Monster weakness only makes you more accurate? What does he do, see that your battleaxe has a really nice edge on it and get an uncontrollable urge to jump in front of your weapon?

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I guess it's like the old weaknesses in live, like how dragons are weak to stab because it's easier to poke through their scales, or mummies are weak to fire because flammable? :P

 

Edit: eh just realised what you meant.

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Question for the live:

 

I know they want to make a lot of things work different like crush on specific monsters, so the damage output is higher. However why do this with range/mage? That makes it soo much harder to do these monsters as the costs to use these methods are still rather high. Especially with range as throwing weapons etc are not used a lot but still cost a ton.

 

Well rune costs have been vastly reduced so mage is no longer expensive, as for ranged weapons the reason they are expensive atm is simple supply & demand. The supply or good arrows etc. is low because people don't want them so people leave drops on the ground or alch them once they are useful the supply should shift which would effect prices; plus in all the tweaking etc. Jagex could easily do several things such as lower ammo breakage, increased drops of assorted ammo items heck they could even introduce more 'magical infinite' ammo items

 

It is still expensive. Maging fight caves where water is the weakness on most monsters, costed me around 2.5m minimum on runes only.

At the current game I can use the PPS' spell reduce the costs to a mere 150k each attempt. And this is only 1 example.

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Dg as an entir

Question for the live:

 

I know they want to make a lot of things work different like crush on specific monsters, so the damage output is higher. However why do this with range/mage? That makes it soo much harder to do these monsters as the costs to use these methods are still rather high. Especially with range as throwing weapons etc are not used a lot but still cost a ton.

 

Well rune costs have been vastly reduced so mage is no longer expensive, as for ranged weapons the reason they are expensive atm is simple supply & demand. The supply or good arrows etc. is low because people don't want them so people leave drops on the ground or alch them once they are useful the supply should shift which would effect prices; plus in all the tweaking etc. Jagex could easily do several things such as lower ammo breakage, increased drops of assorted ammo items heck they could even introduce more 'magical infinite' ammo items

 

It is still expensive. Maging fight caves where water is the weakness on most monsters, costed me around 2.5m minimum on runes only.

At the current game I can use the PPS' spell reduce the costs to a mere 150k each attempt. And this is only 1 example.

What are you talking about? If you use Water Surge that's only 5 water runes per cast (we'll assume you're using something like an Armadyl Battlestaff to give you free airs). Even if you did 10,000 casts that's only 400k.

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Dg as an entir

Question for the live:

 

I know they want to make a lot of things work different like crush on specific monsters, so the damage output is higher. However why do this with range/mage? That makes it soo much harder to do these monsters as the costs to use these methods are still rather high. Especially with range as throwing weapons etc are not used a lot but still cost a ton.

 

Well rune costs have been vastly reduced so mage is no longer expensive, as for ranged weapons the reason they are expensive atm is simple supply & demand. The supply or good arrows etc. is low because people don't want them so people leave drops on the ground or alch them once they are useful the supply should shift which would effect prices; plus in all the tweaking etc. Jagex could easily do several things such as lower ammo breakage, increased drops of assorted ammo items heck they could even introduce more 'magical infinite' ammo items

 

It is still expensive. Maging fight caves where water is the weakness on most monsters, costed me around 2.5m minimum on runes only.

At the current game I can use the PPS' spell reduce the costs to a mere 150k each attempt. And this is only 1 example.

 

Pretty sure that's more fight cave getting longer than magic getting more expensive. Also 2.5m in water surges is over 12k auto attacks, not counting rune providing staves or items, and abilities have no cost at all so if fight caves really takes all of this then I'm sure it won't stay this difficult for long.

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To make potions and prayers more useful, they could lower weapon damage, and increase the damage you get from your Strength/Ranged/Magic level. Just like they did with life points.

 

Is it too late to submit questions? If not, can you add this one to the list?

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I've done the fight caves twice on ancients and used ~1k-1.5k bloods.

 

I also used ancients. I don't know. Will try to do another test this weekend as I have no time for it during normal week days =(.

Sadly that also wastes time that I otherwise could have invested on the goal.

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Were you dual-casting Ice Barrage? It actually lowers the spell's max hit and causes you to cast it at 3000/h, which could explain why you needed so many runes and hence why it was so expensive.

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