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04-Jun-2013 - Order of Ascension


Miss Lioness

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The different monsters are pretty nice too, though I think the gladii are too accurate with their stuns, and they break free of stuns too easily. You can basically not avoid their stuns half the time. I suppose you should mix gladii with others, only kill gladii when you have Anticipate and Freedom ready, but still.

Gladii need to put distance between you and themselves before they can lunge in to stun you. They usually need 5+ spaces between the both of you before they can lunge in. After taking 3 hits, gladii attempt to jump backwards 2 or 3 spaces. You can completely negate their stun ability by just moving along with them, keeping them close to stop their lunge.

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The different monsters are pretty nice too, though I think the gladii are too accurate with their stuns, and they break free of stuns too easily. You can basically not avoid their stuns half the time. I suppose you should mix gladii with others, only kill gladii when you have Anticipate and Freedom ready, but still.

Gladii need to put distance between you and themselves before they can lunge in to stun you. They usually need 5+ spaces between the both of you before they can lunge in. After taking 3 hits, gladii attempt to jump backwards 2 or 3 spaces. You can completely negate their stun ability by just moving along with them, keeping them close to stop their lunge.

just anticipate like a man, moving with them requires sooooo much effort

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This latest Guardian of Guthix annoys me in that he doesn't seem to have a very finite purpose.

 

All the others Guthix made for some great purpose.

Death - guards over life and death and thus the natural order

Fiara - guards over the Fist of Guthix to ensure it's power is not abused.

Cres - guards over his resting place to keep him safe

Juna - guards the tears from abuse (and kind of the stone of jas by proxy)

Valluta - guards the borders of the world to help maintain the edicts

Player - Guards the world against the gods.

Ocellus - Guarding some faction that only JUST turned bad, yet apparently kept him so busy he could not attend when the Temple was breached? And he says he is keeping them in there but he got beaten by them so he needs you?

 

I dunno just seems a bit of a lame purpose and setup comparatively, hopefully whatever he WAS doing before Guthix's death gets explored sometime and has a much grander purpose.

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This latest Guardian of Guthix annoys me in that he doesn't seem to have a very finite purpose.

 

All the others Guthix made for some great purpose.

Death - guards over life and death and thus the natural order

Fiara - guards over the Fist of Guthix to ensure it's power is not abused.

Cres - guards over his resting place to keep him safe

Juna - guards the tears from abuse (and kind of the stone of jas by proxy)

Valluta - guards the borders of the world to help maintain the edicts

Player - Guards the world against the gods.

Ocellus - Guarding some faction that only JUST turned bad, yet apparently kept him so busy he could not attend when the Temple was breached? And he says he is keeping them in there but he got beaten by them so he needs you?

 

I dunno just seems a bit of a lame purpose and setup comparatively, hopefully whatever he WAS doing before Guthix's death gets explored sometime and has a much grander purpose.

He definitely knows more than he is telling us. Compare his speech patterns to the Book of the Order and you'll see why.

 

And you are making an odd comparison. Saying that Ocellus is the "Guthix Guardian of protecting against the Ascended" is like saying Valluta is the "Guthix Guardian of preventing Zilyana from killing Guthix". It is what he is current occupied with, not what his purpose is. We don't know the specifics of his purpose as a Guardian yet, it will likely be revealed in time. (Or, likely, through a Storyline Q&A)

 

From my understanding of the Book of the Order so far, the Ascension Crystals are linked to Runestones and thus the Stone of Jas. It's likely that he was tasked with guarding the crystals somehow.

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So dragon, or royal?

sounds very exciting. Nothing much on patch note.. time to get a task.

 

edit: apparently to make a xbow, you need one dragon xbow + 6 different signets + 100 shards

 

sold a couple of keys for a few M, wonder how rare they are actually meant to be

 

If I had bothered checking if the keys were tradeable, I should have sold them instead of pointlessly dying to the boss <.<

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This latest Guardian of Guthix annoys me in that he doesn't seem to have a very finite purpose.

 

All the others Guthix made for some great purpose.

Death - guards over life and death and thus the natural order

Fiara - guards over the Fist of Guthix to ensure it's power is not abused.

Cres - guards over his resting place to keep him safe

Juna - guards the tears from abuse (and kind of the stone of jas by proxy)

Valluta - guards the borders of the world to help maintain the edicts

Player - Guards the world against the gods.

Ocellus - Guarding some faction that only JUST turned bad, yet apparently kept him so busy he could not attend when the Temple was breached? And he says he is keeping them in there but he got beaten by them so he needs you?

 

I dunno just seems a bit of a lame purpose and setup comparatively, hopefully whatever he WAS doing before Guthix's death gets explored sometime and has a much grander purpose.

He definitely knows more than he is telling us. Compare his speech patterns to the Book of the Order and you'll see why.

 

And you are making an odd comparison. Saying that Ocellus is the "Guthix Guardian of protecting against the Ascended" is like saying Valluta is the "Guthix Guardian of preventing Zilyana from killing Guthix". It is what he is current occupied with, not what his purpose is. We don't know the specifics of his purpose as a Guardian yet, it will likely be revealed in time. (Or, likely, through a Storyline Q&A)

 

From my understanding of the Book of the Order so far, the Ascension Crystals are linked to Runestones and thus the Stone of Jas. It's likely that he was tasked with guarding the crystals somehow.

 

Well I just commented on the only solid purpose we had, hence why I said I hope w/e he was doing b4 was more befitting.

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It's possible his purpose was to get people to stop worshiping Guthix and live life normally, just instead of arguing he took a more active role.

 

If you use the completed journal on him he admits it's his and that he engineered the Ascended so they wouldn't need to worship gods anymore. It seems like he isn't aware of hands-off methods of dealing with others.

 

Edit: Just killed 4 of the 6 bosses (not Quartus or Primus) and they all seem to have the magic splat attack, so you have to keep running around and can't use channeled abilities unless you have a death wish.

 

Things of note: Tertius summons minions at stages throughout the fight, first 3 Rarii, then a Gladius, and then a Caprius, each summons seems to be triggered by him reaching x/4 of his hp (3/4 for Rarii, 1/2 for Gladius, 1/4 for Caprius) the Rarii do some extra damage, not enough to worry about though, the Gladius can stun you, letting you get hit by the magic splats but if you get far enough away he loses interest and wanders around doing nothing. The Caprius doesn't seem to heal Tertius, but it does give him lots of damage reduction (reduces hits down to 25-30 from 500+).

 

Quintus draws purple lines across the room, separating it into a smaller box and 4 rectangles by the sides each the width of a magic splat. Quintus draws 1 line at a time at each x/4 hp interval, and crossing the line seems to do the same amount of damage as being hit by a magic splat.

 

Sextus occasionally shouts "your next step may be your last!", this does nothing.

 

Secundus has no special attacks, just continuous magic splats the whole time.

 

 

The bosses do not respawn once killed, and each seems to have a drop value of 15-30k.

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So from what I've seen:

The lowest level dog looking thing seem to give keys out at highest rated. (Not definite)

The shield guys don't need to be teamed, if you stand right next to them, attack and run through at same time, you do normal damage. Bombardment also works well.

1 key = 1 kill.

Loot from Quintius(?) was around 30-35k/kill, this was from 12 kills.

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[spoiler=Book of the Order Spoilers]Wow. The later entries are horrifying. It explains a LOT.

 

Ascension Crystals are rune stones imbued with the Tears of Guthix.

 

The Ascended are humans altered with said crystals, in an attempt to make humans powerful enough to usurp the gods (and follow Guthix's teachings). Because Ocellus is a Virius (with different moral code), he does not understand the implications of this.

 

Ocellus was not called to assist Guthix because of the horrible atrocities he has committed. He is no longer considered a Guardian.

 

The Ascended worship Guthix as a god, despite Ocellus' intentions. They wish to bring him back to life to rule over the world in tyranny.

 

The Legiones are tied together as a single consciousness. The Roarius are prototypes of that idea.

 

Ocellus is horrified at his creations and desparately tries to find someone to kill all of them, as to prevent them from succeeding.

 

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I've been trying this update and there are some things that I find problematic.

 

The first thing I found problematic, for me, is getting the Keys. In the 2h+ I was there I have received not 1 single key at all trying all the Monsters that are there.

The second thing is the reduction of the damage by 90% seems a bit too steep. Then again this could be easily solved, if I hit dammit >.> That is the 3rd thing. The level 150 monsters have a too damn high defense and I miss quite a lot. About 50% of the time or so it seems.

Number 4 on the list is the bosses themselves. Well more the keys tied to the bosses. I would rather have 1 key = 5 bosses or something. Have us more of a prolonged stay instead of killing countless of hours for a key, I hear otherwise but going from my experience, to only kill the boss once? A boss that isn't even thaaat though.

Then number five, the drop-rate of the Crossbow parts are rumoured to be 1/100. This might be less or more we don't know so I rather keep this under a sceptic eye. I would rather be more please with a 1/20 drop-rate if we remain at the 1 key = 1 kill.

Then the assembly of the Crossbow is a bit weird... If one has Chaotics then these will stay put in the bank forever once one has obtained these T90 crossbow. I would rather upgrade the Chaotic into these Ascended Crossbow then using a T60 crossbow which is currently inflated up to 90mil at the time of this post.

 

On overall you need to repeat this to get all 6 parts, then you need to have another 6 for the offhand.

Seems a bit too long and drastic way to get, especially compared to drygores.

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I've been trying this update and there are some things that I find problematic.

 

The first thing I found problematic, for me, is getting the Keys. In the 2h+ I was there I have received not 1 single key at all trying all the Monsters that are there.

The second thing is the reduction of the damage by 90% seems a bit too steep. Then again this could be easily solved, if I hit dammit >.> That is the 3rd thing. The level 150 monsters have a too damn high defense and I miss quite a lot. About 50% of the time or so it seems.

Number 4 on the list is the bosses themselves. Well more the keys tied to the bosses. I would rather have 1 key = 5 bosses or something. Have us more of a prolonged stay instead of killing countless of hours for a key, I hear otherwise but going from my experience, to only kill the boss once? A boss that isn't even thaaat though.

Then number five, the drop-rate of the Crossbow parts are rumoured to be 1/100. This might be less or more we don't know so I rather keep this under a sceptic eye. I would rather be more please with a 1/20 drop-rate if we remain at the 1 key = 1 kill.

Then the assembly of the Crossbow is a bit weird... If one has Chaotics then these will stay put in the bank forever once one has obtained these T90 crossbow. I would rather upgrade the Chaotic into these Ascended Crossbow then using a T60 crossbow which is currently inflated up to 90mil at the time of this post.

 

On overall you need to repeat this to get all 6 parts, then you need to have another 6 for the offhand.

Seems a bit too long and drastic way to get, especially compared to drygores.

I have got 5 keystones in about two hours worth of killing Capsarii--I guess you're just having bad luck :(

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Interesting on Ocellus being no longer a Guardian.

 

I wonder if this means he doesn't count as one of the 8 (that Osbourne pretty much confirmed to be how many guardians there are)

Would make lorical sense too if there are 8 Ocellus got fired leaving a spot open that was bestowed upon us in TWW, would also still leave us with 2 more to discover opposed to 1.

 

Also kinda agree on the d crossbow thing.

D Claws > Chaotic Claws is one thing, somewhat reasonable jump (T60 > t80) and not really making us get extra of a gear type we already own (unless you already had cls) where as this one is a t60>t90 jump and requires an item most people will of never owned, let alone owning at the time as we will all have karils, royal or chaotics.

 

Also it kinda bugs me that all the things in this dungeon are just 'ranged' weakness, way to break your own dam system Jagex. Was there any particular reason they couldn't be a mix of thrown, arrow and bolt opposed to breaking your own system? (The bosses you could prob get away with it on the basis bosses are usually none, but these are meant to be style specific)

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I've been trying this update and there are some things that I find problematic.

 

The first thing I found problematic, for me, is getting the Keys. In the 2h+ I was there I have received not 1 single key at all trying all the Monsters that are there.

The second thing is the reduction of the damage by 90% seems a bit too steep. Then again this could be easily solved, if I hit dammit >.> That is the 3rd thing. The level 150 monsters have a too damn high defense and I miss quite a lot. About 50% of the time or so it seems.

Number 4 on the list is the bosses themselves. Well more the keys tied to the bosses. I would rather have 1 key = 5 bosses or something. Have us more of a prolonged stay instead of killing countless of hours for a key, I hear otherwise but going from my experience, to only kill the boss once? A boss that isn't even thaaat though.

Then number five, the drop-rate of the Crossbow parts are rumoured to be 1/100. This might be less or more we don't know so I rather keep this under a sceptic eye. I would rather be more please with a 1/20 drop-rate if we remain at the 1 key = 1 kill.

Then the assembly of the Crossbow is a bit weird... If one has Chaotics then these will stay put in the bank forever once one has obtained these T90 crossbow. I would rather upgrade the Chaotic into these Ascended Crossbow then using a T60 crossbow which is currently inflated up to 90mil at the time of this post.

 

On overall you need to repeat this to get all 6 parts, then you need to have another 6 for the offhand.

Seems a bit too long and drastic way to get, especially compared to drygores.

I have got 5 keystones in about two hours worth of killing Capsarii--I guess you're just having bad luck :(

 

Shit luck I call it >.> then again, Clues <3

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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Let's say signets are 1/100.

I don't know how long 100 kills take, but at least two hours I'm guessing? Let's assume the non-signet loot covers the supply cost including keys.

Two hours, six signets, 12 hours per crossbow, two crossbows is 24 hours. You can make about 100m in those 24 hours. Drygores are 100m for the set of maces. Which means the time cost for the signets alone is equal to the cost for drygores.

 

Other option is that they're more common than 1/100 which I hope :P.

 

@Sy: completely agreed on the weaknesses.

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Let's say signets are 1/100.

I don't know how long 100 kills take, but at least two hours I'm guessing? Let's assume the non-signet loot covers the supply cost including keys.

Two hours, six signets, 12 hours per crossbow, two crossbows is 24 hours. You can make about 100m in those 24 hours. Drygores are 100m for the set of maces. Which means the time cost for the signets alone is equal to the cost for drygores.

 

Other option is that they're more common than 1/100 which I hope :P.

 

@Sy: completely agreed on the weaknesses.

 

Non signet loot is not going to come close to covering supplies. It's stuff like 5 noted snapdragons.

best drops (reasonably accurate/up to date): 1x Elysian Sigil (LS), 1x Arcane Sigil (cs), 4x Armadyl Hilt (solo at 100m, 100m, 50m, and 5m), 2x Saradomin Hilt (solo at 25m), 5x Draconic Visage (34m,1.2m,1.2m) and various cs/ls/ffa Nex splits.
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ROTS Shields: 12  Seismics: 16

Ascension Crossbows: 6  Spider Legs: 10

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Let's say signets are 1/100.

I don't know how long 100 kills take, but at least two hours I'm guessing? Let's assume the non-signet loot covers the supply cost including keys.

Two hours, six signets, 12 hours per crossbow, two crossbows is 24 hours. You can make about 100m in those 24 hours. Drygores are 100m for the set of maces. Which means the time cost for the signets alone is equal to the cost for drygores.

 

Other option is that they're more common than 1/100 which I hope :P.

 

@Sy: completely agreed on the weaknesses.

 

Non signet loot is not going to come close to covering supplies. It's stuff like 5 noted snapdragons.

 

And next to that obtaining the keys at like my rates, 2h/key if optimistic, 100 keys/signet on average is already 200h/signet, 12 signets for the set = 2400 hours for both parts. Next to that dragon cbows are expensive as funk so you get them yourself, another hour or 2-3 per piece so. Oh and I forgot the time to do the bosses themselves so @ 5 minutes / kill is another 200h

 

So give or take 2610 hours at my rate >.>

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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Say keys settle at 100k-200k each since you'll get a few each slayer task. That's 10-20m per key, so 120-240m for a set.

 

Keys will have to get really cheap for the crossbow to be worth it then. And they probably won't since the monsters don't seem like particularly good xp.

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Final few bits of info from the Book of the Order and Ocellus' dialogue

[spoiler=Ocellus + Book]

The Legiones banded together to make a new Guthix to replace the dead one. They are kidnapping people, mummifying them, and physically melding them together into a giant Guthix. That's right. The statue is made out of mummified human flesh. Dear god.

 

The Order of the Ascended are Ocellus' third attempt to make a race that does not need to worship. He believes he is very close to completing this task, and that he will try again--this time, he will make the subjects worship him as a god instead of Guthix. He has gone completely insane.

 

Juna did not call him to help protect Guthix because of his horrifying deeds--enough to be exiled from their group. This begs a question--is a Guardian of Guthix considered a guardian because of their powers, or because of their place alongside the other Guardians? Let's hope Osborne answers this in a future Q&A.

 

The Chapel was built by the Ascended. It was torn down several times by Ocellus, but they keep rebuilding it.

 

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Also it kinda bugs me that all the things in this dungeon are just 'ranged' weakness, way to break your own dam system Jagex. Was there any particular reason they couldn't be a mix of thrown, arrow and bolt opposed to breaking your own system? (The bosses you could prob get away with it on the basis bosses are usually none, but these are meant to be style specific)

 

Having already brought back strength bonuses, godsword special attacks, melee class domination (new crossbow looks to take a lot more time to acquire than drygores), critical bonuses on claws and other things like this, it's quite clear to me that rather than designing a good system, they just want one that looks like it's good.

 

My thought's on the EoC aside, this update just doesn't live up to my 6 months of expectation. The one boss I fought (Tertius) was fairly straightforward, but centered around running away from damaging areas, one of the weakest and most frustrating combat mechanics in my opinion. Adding a Gladius (the most annoying enemy in the whole dungeon) into the fight didn't help at all, and when I was finally done with my 6 kills, the most valuable drop I had (over 50 times more valuable than anything else) was the original key required to enter the room. I ended up going to Tormented Demons with 2 friends and having a load of fun on a half decade old boss that doesn't operate under the pretense of an advanced combat system (stuns) while being fundamentally the same as a game created in 1999(?).

 

Tl;dr: Jagex should make bosses that fit their game (pattern recognition, gear swapping) rather than try to implement systems that don't work well (dodging/accurate movement).

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This begs a question--is a Guardian of Guthix considered a guardian because of their powers, or because of their place alongside the other Guardians?

 

I think it's primarily a matter of being chosen by Guthix - with the lack of Guthix, that falls to the Guardians (who may be able to draw on the remnant power of Guthix, the sword and/or the Anima Mundi). If you already have power, that's fine, Guthix will add a bit of his own. If you don't have powers, Guthix will give them to you. Guthix may not be able to instantly withdraw the power once given, especially power that was gained with Guthix' gifts, but not strictly part of the gifts themselves.

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The more I think about it, the more I think they’ve made a right dogs dinner of this dungeon. It seems to me the whole focus of the dungeon is on the new crossbow, as opposed to what it was supposed to be-a ranged slayer dungeon.

 

Currently the monsters are all just a homogeneous mess, with no reason whatsoever to kill the lvl 150 ones as they all seem to have an identical drop table, with little increase in drop rate of keys either. I just don’t understand why the monsters don’t require an increasing slayer level to kill, say 80 for the level 120’s, up to 90ish for the 150’s and then have a much better drop table for the high level ones, especially as they take so much longer to kill. As others have said they should also have different weaknesses too. I also find it frustrating that the monsters are all over the place, as opposed to grouped into areas with different ones.

 

The polypore dungeon was a very good example of this that I just simply don’t get why they didn’t follow it at all.

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