Sorry, Comrade, but Price Controls Don���¢�¢â�š�¬�¢â�ž�¢t Work

[Maynard]

In GE maple longs can only sell for around 450 I think it was but no ones buys that price so how can you sell through GE. There is alot of items like this so the -/+%5 is stupid. We should be able to sell what price we wish..

 

 

 

Why dont they just set a max price but make it so we can go as low as we wish..

[guzoliub]

For now GE is not really working well for me. I know I can try and sell my items the old way, don't tell me that. I just observe that GE is not as usefull as I would like.

 

 

 

What is happening - I set various items (6 types) at minimum prices and after 10-12 hours no item is sold and in most cases the 'price' has gone down. So i relist them for the new minimum and again after 10-12 hours it is the same. This happens to both uncommon and common items.

 

 

 

examples:

 

 

 

uncommon:

 

blue dh body trimmed - 'price' does not change, nobody buys. I want to offer lower, but cannot do ...

 

snakeskin chaps - 'price' goes down before i could sell, then I relist and the same thing happens again.

 

 

 

common:

 

rune baxes, maple logs, black dhides, mith arrows - 'price' goes down before i could sell, then I relist and the same thing happens again.

[lord_british]

try to sell items like willow and maple logs on GE...they're so far overpriced compared to what is the selling price "on the street" and on RSOF they'll NEVER sell.

 

 

 

Seeds too, apart from a few of the most desirable types : magic and ranarr, for example.

 

 

 

And Jagex claim to use "Player" prices??? #-o

[xSxqPowerx]

Yeah. I've been selling maple logs in there since it came out.

 

Each day I put the price to the new minimun, and they never sell.

 

 

 

I could go on the forums and sell them in a few minutes for half the price like I often do... but I was hoping the exchange could do that.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the place because it makes buying so much easier, and because it makes selling the drops I get easier; I got an archer ring and a darkbow drop, and sold them on the exchange instantly.

 

Yet some things just will not sell.

[qeltar]

 

First off, everyone brings it up because that's the same arguement that has been used to stop Adam Smith's theories for decades.

 

 

It's the argument that's been TRIED but it always fails. Where has that scenario ever played out except in a handful of temporary circumstances?

 

 

Years of history that show it false? Name one modern country that has completely deregulated trade within, and is suceeding within the global market.

 

 

Most modern Western countries have an essentially free market with reasonable controls. They do not have the government telling everyone that they can only buy or sell items within +/-5% of the "official price". Or can you name one that does? :)

 

 

Your expectation of an "unhindered market" was very naive.

 

 

Why was it naive, when Jagex has spent the last six years bleating the mantra that "players set prices"?

 

 

 

Or was it naive to think they wouldn't cripple their own feature? :)

[qeltar]

 

There is dark place in the abyss called the RS Forums. Deep within the forums there is a market place. Go there young grass hoppa and you will find your pie shells.

 

 

 

lol

 

 

 

Seriously, the forums still exist, ya dig? If the GE doesnt have the current price, the forums is practically a Manuel GE.

 

 

 

Do you really think I haven't tried that? :)

 

 

 

Only a tiny percentage of people use the RS forums. Only a small percentage of those read the Food forum. And in that forum, 99% of the posts are about lobsters, sharks and monkfish.

 

 

 

You've missed my point. It's not about pie shells, it's about the fact that the GE could have been a new opportunity for buyers and sellers to communicate needs and wants, but that chance has been wasted by poor implementation and overly-controlling policy.

[Robert_de_Sable]

So... you're blaming the fact that no one wants/needs those tree seeds on the GE?

 

:-s

[Solidus_77]

This article is based on the assumption that Jagex is attempting to control the price. That assumption, however, is not true. The difference between the "price controls" of the GE and communist regime is that the GE is completely optional. Now, because the GE is optional, it cannot be considered an effective form of price control.

 

 

 

The price minimum and maximum used in GE are not trying to control the price since they are completely independent, they are made to control rapid fluctuations. Since this does NOT change the real price fluctuations (since the supply and demand remain relatively intact) then I believe that the price minimums and maximums are only used to prevent people abusing the GE for dishonest means. It basically slows down the rate of fluctuation without limiting the fluctuation entirely. This has nothing to do with price controls

 

 

 

Why would people buy bloods for GE price? Only if they are totally desperate. However most people will use forums. Are they forced to buy bloods for 508 if they want to use GE? yes. But are they forced to buy bloods for 508? No, there are other options available.

 

 

 

Basically in the end, this price minimum and maximum is not a form of price control, or at the very least it is an inneffective form of price control which leads me to believe that Jagex is not pre-occupied with controlling prices but instead they are preoccupied with preventing the negative externalities linked with GE (such as manipulation and deception) from propagating. If Jagex really wanted to control prices, they would have made GE the only way of trading goods and then you are correct, it would not work.

[no_way2go]

Give the GE some time, you're talking like it has been out for months but guess what it only came out two days ago!

 

 

 

In these two days allot of prices already settled and more will follow soon.

 

I hear you talking about supply and demand but isn't that exactly what the GE is? The prices are based on it!

 

 

 

Give it some time and if you feel like this in a month maybe you should consder quitting :uhh:

[llVIU]

Too much info there.... but it's pretty much price fixing, forget about runescape rules, it's againts the law..

[qeltar]

So... you're blaming the fact that no one wants/needs those tree seeds on the GE?

 

:-s

 

 

 

Everyone wants tree seeds if they like the price. The GE doesn't allow that natural price to be set. That's why they don't sell, not because they are unwanted.

[MooseHole]

Everyone wants tree seeds if they like the price. The GE doesn't allow that natural price to be set. That's why they don't sell, not because they are unwanted.

I'm happy to buy tree seeds, but it's no use buying 1000 calquats if I can only plant one at a time. I'd rather buy 1 or 2 of them and come back for more later. People get quite a few calquats at Miscellania, but not all of them farm, so they sell their high level seeds on the GE. This creates a huge supply (and long waiting lines for sellers). People do buy these, they just don't buy ALL of them.

[Silver_Corner]

So... you're blaming the fact that no one wants/needs those tree seeds on the GE?

 

:-s

 

 

 

Everyone wants tree seeds if they like the price. The GE doesn't allow that natural price to be set. That's why they don't sell, not because they are unwanted.

 

 

 

Thats an assumption. And you should not assume.

 

 

 

Reason #1) Think of how many people actually have the levels to plant a calquat.

 

 

 

#2) Of the people that can actually plant one, how many people buy seeds. You cant assume everyone, because not everyone is willing to fork over thousands of gp for tree seeds. I dont buy my seeds, when I want them I get them from my own kingdom, and I know many other people do the same.

 

 

 

Its the case of to much supply and not any demand.

 

 

 

Secondly, its not price control, as because when people in your market, say its tree seeds, put as the lower values, it kicks the price down.

 

Over time, the price will decrease until it reaches a point where people will start buying them. For certain items with small markets this might take awhile, maybe even 2-3 months, but its a gradual drop. The market IS controled by players, but its only LIMITED by Jagex b/c of the 5% difference. But its up to the players to change their own prices for items.

 

 

 

Patience is the Key.

[eggyeggyeggy]

The best analogy would be to think of the G.E as colonic irrigation for your bank - it clears the rubbish and give it a few weeks; all will be settled and things will be a little more stable and predictable. For now its 6 more bank spaces. :thumbsup:

[Sanctus_Petrus]

GE has only been out for 3 days. I will wait 1 month before I make my final judgement so to be fair I wont say much about it. But yeah, my first impression is that it's great but the price range needs to be widen, at least for some items that are not commonly sold, like addy square.

 

 

 

You make a lot of good points. For the most part, rl economic priciples should apply to the rs economy as well. So maybe jagex should hire Allen Greenspan for much necesary advice :shock:

[Shadowcheval]

 

First off, everyone brings it up because that's the same arguement that has been used to stop Adam Smith's theories for decades.

 

 

It's the argument that's been TRIED but it always fails. Where has that scenario ever played out except in a handful of temporary circumstances?

 

 

Years of history that show it false? Name one modern country that has completely deregulated trade within, and is suceeding within the global market.

 

 

Most modern Western countries have an essentially free market with reasonable controls. They do not have the government telling everyone that they can only buy or sell items within +/-5% of the "official price". Or can you name one that does? :)

 

 

Your expectation of an "unhindered market" was very naive.

 

 

Why was it naive, when Jagex has spent the last six years bleating the mantra that "players set prices"?

 

 

 

Or was it naive to think they wouldn't cripple their own feature? :)

 

 

 

1) So you're saying that for decades countless nations have been idiots, but now you have the answer?

 

 

 

2) Essentially free? Please go in depth because this is very vague.

 

 

 

3) And many nations say the same thing about the products sold there. But it is never completely true.

[lordkrohn1626]

 

First off, everyone brings it up because that's the same arguement that has been used to stop Adam Smith's theories for decades.

 

 

It's the argument that's been TRIED but it always fails. Where has that scenario ever played out except in a handful of temporary circumstances?

 

 

Years of history that show it false? Name one modern country that has completely deregulated trade within, and is suceeding within the global market.

 

 

Most modern Western countries have an essentially free market with reasonable controls. They do not have the government telling everyone that they can only buy or sell items within +/-5% of the "official price". Or can you name one that does? :)

 

 

Your expectation of an "unhindered market" was very naive.

 

 

Why was it naive, when Jagex has spent the last six years bleating the mantra that "players set prices"?

 

 

 

Or was it naive to think they wouldn't cripple their own feature? :)

 

 

 

:-k hmmm do you ever have anything positive to say or is the glass ALWAYS half empty for you? hehe just curious :uhh:

[lord_british]

Why do you think the British controlled 1/4 of the land in the world at one point?

 

 

 

Ummm not exactly the way you're painting it. The Brits had gained direct political control of about two fifths of the world's [then] population and about one quarter of its land area, and hegemony over nominally independent areas such as parts of China and South America.

 

 

 

The British Empire is generally considered to have arisen as a result of Britain's trade objectives rather than an attempt to establish military dominion.

 

 

 

In their extremism against Empires, many people forget a few things - the British Empire was not a force of evil for those it conquered, it was a force of good. The Pax Britannica made the 19th century comparitively peaceful and safe compared to the centuries that preceded it, and it was possible to travel the globe and visit all continents [except maybe Antartica :wink: ] using just one currency, speaking one language and all without worry of molestation. [mostly]

 

 

 

Britain took its obligations seriously, however: It did not try to extinguish the cultures of other nations, but rather to bring them alive in a framework of fairness. The only cultural artifacts it imposed were simple principles of morals. Where native religions were opposed to even simple moral behaviour, they would introduce Christianity in order to right the wrongs of paganism and allow these peoples to flower.

 

 

 

Of course, this did kind of fall by the wayside when people with more money than actual experience/compassion/ethics/morality bought their way into positions of influence/power. We Brits have made some howlers with regards to some colonies/conquered nations. (Middle East - though American interference/manipulation there was more to blame than British mishandling) Ireland is all our own work though. That's what you get when the wrong people are making the decisions.

 

 

 

In the western hemisphere, compare Haiti, settled by the French, to the Bahamas, settled by the English. I know that when I do my civic duty and donate blood, stepping foot in Nassau does not make my blood a type IV pathogen.

 

 

 

In Asia, compare Singapore and Indonesia. One of these countries is a high tech Asian wonder, the other is slaughtering infidels. Guess which one was civilized by the British, and which one by the Dutch.

 

 

 

In Africa, compare English civilized Egypt with Italian civilized Libya. Which one is a world pariah, and which one is a force for moderation in the Arab world.

 

 

 

So, British Colonies are moer economic expansion than military, thought for either, one needs both :P

[Wachtwoord]

I know I don't voice my opinion on these threads a lot, but now I feel you're all missing a major point:

 

 

 

Qeltar (don't got the quote ready) said that's it bad Jagex, which isn't in touch with the game and its users, sets the price, they know too less about the game. But let's turn this the other way around: maybe they learn this way how the economy in their game works. Yes, there are other ways to do that too, but they're not doing that either. To me this is a sign they have to get to know the whole economy, which is a good thing. And maybe they'll see some prices are quite "wrong" and do something against, maybe they'll think a left half isn't worth anything compared to the rareness, etc.

[Soma2035]

Everyone wants tree seeds if they like the price. The GE doesn't allow that natural price to be set. That's why they don't sell, not because they are unwanted.

I'm happy to buy tree seeds, but it's no use buying 1000 calquats if I can only plant one at a time. I'd rather buy 1 or 2 of them and come back for more later. People get quite a few calquats at Miscellania, but not all of them farm, so they sell their high level seeds on the GE. This creates a huge supply (and long waiting lines for sellers). People do buy these, they just don't buy ALL of them.

 

 

 

In case you missed it, that's the point. Trading in Runescape is based on supply and demand. If there are 100,000 Calquat seeds and 1,000 people willing to pay 40k each, then 99,000 people won't be able to sell their seeds. Thus, undercutting occurs. Maybe 20,000 are willing to sell are 30k each, and in that instance, 10,000 people are willing to buy. That's still not quite equilibrium so the price continues to drop.

 

 

 

Jagex put rune warhammers at 65k. Their price adjustments have reduced it to 55k over the past 2 days. There are TOO many people willing to sell at the price Jagex offers, and not enough willing to buy. Had this been natural supply and demand, I would've offered 45k on the day of release, or even 40k, because I'm willing to part with them for less. The GE doesn't allow you to do so.

[Teeg]

Most modern Western countries have an essentially free market with reasonable controls.

 

 

 

I'm not as intelligent as you, and I'm certainly no economist, but the above confused me. Free, but with controls??

 

 

 

By adding adjectives you seem to try to get around the anomaly.

 

 

 

What is "essentially free"? is that like "slightly pregnant", or "nearly unique"??

 

 

 

"Reasonable controls"? Reasonable for whom? The government? The people? A balance of the two, a sort of happy medium?

 

 

 

Teeg

[Latinoking]

Most modern Western countries have an essentially free market with reasonable controls.

 

 

 

I'm not as intelligent as you, and I'm certainly no economist, but the above confused me. Free, but with controls??

 

 

 

By adding adjectives you seem to try to get around the anomaly.

 

 

 

What is "essentially free"? is that like "slightly pregnant", or "nearly unique"??

 

 

 

"Reasonable controls"? Reasonable for whom? The government? The people? A balance of the two, a sort of happy medium?

 

 

 

Teeg

 

 

 

We have a free market in USA, but the Government imposes laws and taxes.

[quitthegame]

Can you people PLEASE stop whining because the laws of supply and demand are expressed in the GE through a system that limits change to a maximum rate? Guess what. The NYSE has in place a system to limit change to a maximum amount per day too, I suppose you will rail against Wall Street's communism too now, right?

 

 

 

[hide=Details on NYSE limitations from wikipedia]On October 19, 1987, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) dropped 508 points, a 22.6% loss in a single day, the biggest one-day drop the exchange had yet experienced, prompting officials at the exchange to invoke for the first time the "circuit breaker" rule to halt all trading. This was a very controversial move and led to a quick change in the rule; trading now halts for an hour, two hours, or the rest of the day when the DJIA drops 10, 20, or 30 percent, respectively. In the afternoon, the 10% and 20% drops will halt trading for a shorter period of time, but a 30% drop will always close the exchange for the day. The rationale behind the trading halt was to give investors a chance to cool off and reevaluate their positions. Black Monday was followed by Terrible Tuesday, a day in which the Exchange's systems did not perform well and some people had difficulty completing their trades. [/hide]

 

 

 

Information-limited auctions are extremely common in the real world as well, ever heard of sealed auctions? That's only one of 25 different information-limited auction types happening every single day! All this overheated whining about communism, when your only complaint boils down to you want the prices to change by 5% every 15 minutes rather than every 24 hours. Well, I would rather that were true as well, but I'm still objective enough to see that your supposed moral concerns boil down to IMPATIENCE! The amount of spoiled whining done by people who won't even admit their true motivation in these forums is truly unbelievable and I for one am sick of it.

 

 

 

Do I need to list other examples in the real world where the government attempts to moderate change to take place more slowly to avoid deleterious side effects? Ever heard of the federal reserve? Subsidies for industries hit by technological change? What about the insurance industry? Do you really expect Jagex to copy the free market in the real world exactly? What's the point of that, if you want the real world, open your flipping front door! Runescape is a simpler model of the real world, and the moderating influence of millions of people implementing incredibly complicated balancing mechanisms in the real world economy is replaced with a 5% limitation per day. Don't like it? Calmly argue that the limitation should be raised or repealed, or make your own better game and beat RS in the free market that you revere so much. Just don't act you just got dumped at the altar over an optional feature in an MMORPG, that's all I ask.

[Teeg]

Most modern Western countries have an essentially free market with reasonable controls.

 

 

 

I'm not as intelligent as you, and I'm certainly no economist, but the above confused me. Free, but with controls??

 

 

 

By adding adjectives you seem to try to get around the anomaly.

 

 

 

What is "essentially free"? is that like "slightly pregnant", or "nearly unique"??

 

 

 

"Reasonable controls"? Reasonable for whom? The government? The people? A balance of the two, a sort of happy medium?

 

 

 

Teeg

 

 

 

We have a free market in USA, but the Government imposes laws and taxes.

 

 

 

Well, thanks for that, although you didn't answer any of my questions. I'll precis:-

 

 

 

What is "essentially free"?

 

What are "reasonable controls"?

 

Who decides what is reasonable?

 

 

 

Teeg

[shakaz]

Can you people PLEASE stop whining because the laws of supply and demand are expressed in the GE through a system that limits change to a maximum rate? Guess what. The NYSE has in place a system to limit change to a maximum amount per day too, I suppose you will rail against Wall Street's communism too now, right?

 

 

 

[hide=Details on NYSE limitations from wikipedia]On October 19, 1987, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) dropped 508 points, a 22.6% loss in a single day, the biggest one-day drop the exchange had yet experienced, prompting officials at the exchange to invoke for the first time the "circuit breaker" rule to halt all trading. This was a very controversial move and led to a quick change in the rule; trading now halts for an hour, two hours, or the rest of the day when the DJIA drops 10, 20, or 30 percent, respectively. In the afternoon, the 10% and 20% drops will halt trading for a shorter period of time, but a 30% drop will always close the exchange for the day. The rationale behind the trading halt was to give investors a chance to cool off and reevaluate their positions. Black Monday was followed by Terrible Tuesday, a day in which the Exchange's systems did not perform well and some people had difficulty completing their trades. [/hide]

 

 

 

Information-limited auctions are extremely common in the real world as well, ever heard of sealed auctions? That's only one of 25 different information-limited auction types happening every single day! All this overheated whining about communism, when your only complaint boils down to you want the prices to change by 5% every 15 minutes rather than every 24 hours. Well, I would rather that were true as well, but I'm still objective enough to see that your supposed moral concerns boil down to IMPATIENCE! The amount of spoiled whining done by people who won't even admit their true motivation in these forums is truly unbelievable and I for one am sick of it.

 

 

 

Do I need to list other examples in the real world where the government attempts to moderate change to take place more slowly to avoid deleterious side effects? Ever heard of the federal reserve? Subsidies for industries hit by technological change? What about the insurance industry? Do you really expect Jagex to copy the free market in the real world exactly? What's the point of that, if you want the real world, open your flipping front door! Runescape is a simpler model of the real world, and the moderating influence of millions of people implementing incredibly complicated balancing mechanisms in the real world economy is replaced with a 5% limitation per day. Don't like it? Calmly argue that the limitation should be raised or repealed, or make your own better game and beat RS in the free market that you revere so much. Just don't act you just got dumped at the altar over an optional feature in an MMORPG, that's all I ask.

:thumbsup: