Do you believe in such thing...

[Dracula_Magic]

Is everything that happen in game "random" or in games designed by computer programmers such thing does not exist and is genericly modified?

 

 

 

Long time ago while playing other game i read one thread where poster had a huge theory he worked on for quite a long,so he came with some sort of a guide what actually happens if you attend to do one activity over and over again for gaining benifits such as profit and drops.

 

 

 

He claimed that there is somthing like "hidden penaily" related to certain area of a game - if you used to "farm = kill monsters" in one area for quite a long of time hoping you will get all the good drops constantly and make profit by just doing that, system restricts you and adds a penality. (Some people on this forum said bout how they were so "lucky" to get all the best drops from barrow chest on their first trips,and they called it "begenner's luck",however i found it very common). It was also mentioned that if you do some other kind of activity for healthy amount of time,those penalities dissapear (altho not completely) and you are able to get as much as profit as you could before

 

 

 

I don't believe this theory could apply litterary knowing that some people really end up getting good drop in the end after repeating their trips,but still i "smell" there must be somthing of this kind

 

 

 

If you are familiar with this kind of thing plz tell me more about it and your oppinion on this (I am hoping for some programmer 2 read this thread and post an oppinion).

 

 

 

It can be this theory is totally false,but from my experience I think it isn't.The main reason why programmers would do this would be to stop somthing common in old runesacpe - autoers for example, and on the other side stop people who "discovered" new way to bring them tons of gold ,which leads to disadvantage somehow. I do believe that kind of rule would apply in Runescape the most of all other games because of direction Runescape was leading to since they added balanced trades and stuff like that.Just makes me believe in this even more.However there is no way to prove this theory wrong or false,but I want to see what other people think,if you got any kind of intuition related to this coming from their personal experience feel free to post...

[geekoverlord]

I'de say it might exist. I got my first dragon legs drop after like, 20 steels. Ive killed AT LEAST 250 more and havent got another dragon drop or visage since.

[Omali]

A computer program can't do anything at random. The closest you can come to random is a complex algorithm.

[Fairness]

Actually, I think it's all luck.

[pryomancer]

Things like drops are randomly generated by chance.

 

 

 

So technically it's possible for me to go to (for example) the Kalphite Queen and get a dragon chain every single time I kill her, forever. It's incredibly unlikely, but still possible.

 

Same goes for hits, she might never hit anything on me, only 0's, whereas I might always hit my max. It's extremely unlikely but possible if hits and drops are generated randomly.

[Shepherdman7]

A computer program can't do anything at random. The closest you can come to random is a complex algorithm.

 

 

 

Nailed it.

[Dragon_lord]

Like Omali said, a computer cannot be programmed to carry out commands randomly.

 

Doing repetitive tasks over and over (in other words, behaving like a macro) especially if you don't chat can trigger a random event. I vividly remember working on my Smithing level, and during one session I got the Drunken Dwarf random every time I entered the furnace building. (did like 25+ runs)

 

Standing still doing nothing can also trigger certain (usually aggressive) randoms, and I foundthat out the hard way when clicking back to see a random punching the last HP out of me... Now whenever I'm posting on Tip.It (yes, that's the primary reason this has happened) I log out immediately.

[Dracula_Magic]

A computer program can't do anything at random. The closest you can come to random is a complex algorithm.

 

 

 

But i alredy explained how it would work : If you stay in 1 area for quite a long time,penalities adds up . But if u change activity it removes itself = now that is what i mean.Pretty simple (Altho lesser dose of penalities never applies)

 

 

 

BTW some ppl call it "anti farming code"

[Den]

In this case, I have a very high penalty. :lol:

 

 

 

I like getting done with things before i start new things. :lol:

 

 

 

(I also feel like my "good" drops take twice the amount of time it would take for someone else to get it.)

 

 

 

You might be on to something. :?

[Zierro]

Why would Jagex do that? Do they really want desperate people to be deprived of drops?

[knight10071]

Let's start with this: Why on earth would JaGEx program this? It's not needed in any way, so it only adds more code, which can give more bugs.

 

 

 

A computer program can't do anything at random. The closest you can come to random is a complex algorithm.

 

False.

 

 

 

In comparison with PRNGs, TRNGs extract randomness from physical phenomena and introduce it into a computer. You can imagine this as a die connected to a computer, but typically people use a physical phenomenon that is easier to connect to a computer than a die is. The physical phenomenon can be very simple, like the little variations in somebody's mouse movements or in the amount of time between keystrokes.

 

Source: http://www.random.org/randomness/

[Yomyth105]

drops and such r programmed to drop at chance.

[Randox]

It would not be at all impossible to change something such as a drop probibility using a set of 'if then' statements.

 

 

 

If

 

condition a = true

 

then do x

 

else do y

 

 

 

Very simple and not in a language at all since I do not know the java syntax and it has been a while since I have worked in c or any other language.

 

 

 

A very easy example of this in game for me would be if I, say, went to kill some level 21 zombies. Now my HP, def, att, and str are all 76. With a salve ammy and whip I can hit a 25 on a zombie. If I were to do this rigth now I can garunte that I would almost never get a hit over maybe 9. I might hit up to even 16 or 17, but even if this zombie had 70 HP, I would still doubt I would ever hit near my max more than once or twice every 10 zombies.

 

 

 

Most games give xp based on your charecter level versus your opponents level. Runescape gives a steady xp based on damage inflicted. To prevent higher levels efectively training at weak monsters with high HP, I belive that you recive a damage penalty when you attack. Say you damage was the roll of a die. Another roll would be made with a range dependant on the level difference between you and your opponent. Whatever this second roll is, that value is subtracted from the damage you inflict.

 

 

 

It could also be possible for drops that there is a bonus rather than penalty under certain circumstances such as first few kills or maybe after a certain number of continues kills or even based on how many pieces of food are left in your inventory. I have even noticed that the quality of some drops has a relation with how much damage the monsters are inflicting. An example of a bonus is the chance of getting a random event. I use this to force randoms so that I do not get one in the middel of a fight (that and one particular event is cconsistantly very profitable).

[knight10071]

[hide=]

It would not be at all impossible to change something such as a drop probibility using a set of 'if then' statements.

 

 

 

If

 

condition a = true

 

then do x

 

else do y

 

 

 

Very simple and not in a language at all since I do not know the java syntax and it has been a while since I have worked in c or any other language.

 

 

 

A very easy example of this in game for me would be if I, say, went to kill some level 21 zombies. Now my HP, def, att, and str are all 76. With a salve ammy and whip I can hit a 25 on a zombie. If I were to do this rigth now I can garunte that I would almost never get a hit over maybe 9. I might hit up to even 16 or 17, but even if this zombie had 70 HP, I would still doubt I would ever hit near my max more than once or twice every 10 zombies.

 

 

 

Most games give xp based on your charecter level versus your opponents level. Runescape gives a steady xp based on damage inflicted. To prevent higher levels efectively training at weak monsters with high HP, I belive that you recive a damage penalty when you attack. Say you damage was the roll of a die. Another roll would be made with a range dependant on the level difference between you and your opponent. Whatever this second roll is, that value is subtracted from the damage you inflict.

 

 

 

It could also be possible for drops that there is a bonus rather than penalty under certain circumstances such as first few kills or maybe after a certain number of continues kills or even based on how many pieces of food are left in your inventory. I have even noticed that the quality of some drops has a relation with how much damage the monsters are inflicting. An example of a bonus is the chance of getting a random event. I use this to force randoms so that I do not get one in the middel of a fight (that and one particular event is cconsistantly very profitable).

[/hide]

 

 

 

In VB, but this should be understandable for any one who programs a little

 

 

 

Dim variable As Integer

Dim dropvariable1 As Integer = 30

Dim dropvariable2 As Integer = 60



variable = Rnd(100)



If variable < dropvariable1 Then

 drop item1

Else

 If variable < dropvariable2 Then

   drop item2

 Else

   drop nothing

 End if

End If

 

To change the chances, simply let dropvariable1 & 2 be changed.

 

 

 

The part about fighting and hits, I used to kill low level skeletons, zombies and ghosts for slayer, and one-hit them quite often. This is just you.

 

 

 

To your final part: Again, why would they? However, for randoms this is true. I'm quite certain that they have programmed procedures for that. I, for one, almost always get a random when I tele from my slayer task.

[dem0nd]

yes i beleive there is something like this. Im not entirely sure tho cuz i have terrible luck. allmost 5 years of playing and my best drop was a rune battle axe.....for example.....i know ive killed over 500 fire giants prob alot more and yet ive never gotton a rune skimmy drop from them. how this ties into this topic is that when i killed those 500 fie giants i did both camp there and just go in slay a couple and leave. when i camp there its mostly for slayer. when i just pop in to kill some its mostly cuz im close to a lvl.

[Gravy]

Nah I don't believe it, it's rather pointless & doesn't exlpain how much friend got 2 dlegs in a row after being down there for god-knows-how-long.

[Smapla]

Let's start with this: Why on earth would JaGEx program this? It's not needed in any way, so it only adds more code, which can give more bugs.

 

 

 

A computer program can't do anything at random. The closest you can come to random is a complex algorithm.

 

False.

 

 

 

In comparison with PRNGs, TRNGs extract randomness from physical phenomena and introduce it into a computer. You can imagine this as a die connected to a computer, but typically people use a physical phenomenon that is easier to connect to a computer than a die is. The physical phenomenon can be very simple, like the little variations in somebody's mouse movements or in the amount of time between keystrokes.

 

Source: http://www.random.org/randomness/

 

 

 

 

 

the term is pseudo random number generation Omali

 

 

 

and extracting 'randomness' from physical phenomena would be impracticle for a game like runescape. they don't have a warehouse filled with dice rolling machines.

 

 

 

yes yes i know he said "computer program" but we're talking about runescape, stop it.

[Ts_Stormrage]

A computer program can't do anything at random. The closest you can come to random is a complex algorithm.

 

 

 

Nailed it.

 

 

 

Atleast, not without hooking a chunk of radio-active material and a geiger-counter up to that same program...

[pulli23]

A computer program can't do anything at random. The closest you can come to random is a complex algorithm.

 

 

 

Nailed it.

 

 

 

Atleast, not without hooking a chunk of radio-active material and a geiger-counter up to that same program...

 

 

 

 

 

just measuring the noise on the electric signal is already good enough!

 

 

 

The question is however: do you need those kind of randoms? prng is in 99.9% of the games "randomly" enough. And I won't be surprised if runescape uses an even 'worse' kind of random mechanism: as long as users don't see a "repitition" it's alright. And random-generators are slow!

 

 

 

Now as for the original question: it's very hard to say, only a very, very extensive research can conclude anything here. But from my point of view I would say "no" why would they? game-design technically it's -bad- at least as long as it isn't known/a reason for.

[tintin113]

A computer program can't do anything at random. The closest you can come to random is a complex algorithm.

 

 

 

Nailed it.

 

 

 

whut about a random numbar generatire!?!!!11!!shift!!!!!

 

 

 

most nubby post award 2008

[BloodArgon]

A computer program can't do anything at random. The closest you can come to random is a complex algorithm.

 

 

 

Nailed it.

 

 

 

Yes, but, to us, its random, which is all that matters. The computer may know always what its going to pick, but, we dont, therefore the fact that the computer does, as long as it doesnt tell us, is completely thrown out the window.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

I'm a programmer. Yes, Jagex could easily do something like this - decreasing drop rates depending on the amount of time you've been in an area of the number of certain monsters you've killed, but I doubt they do as it would be kind of silly. Obtaining a rare drop would become increasingly rare the more monsters you've killed, whereas it should, at least theoretically, become decreasingly rare (although this is technically an illusion) as you kill more monsters.

[herominerman]

For this sort of thing i just think of dumb luck and what some know as sod's law: take for example flesh crawlers.

 

Being a relatively low level (54 combat) I go down there to train my combat levels quite a lot, as they're efficient. When i first went there I also realised that they dropped Ranarr Weeds quite a lot which is a decent thing to sell, obviously.

 

Of course, when I go down there just to kill for Ranarr, what do i get? Nothing but Marentil and Tarromin -.-

[pbpenguin5]

A computer program can't do anything at random. The closest you can come to random is a complex algorithm.

 

 

 

Nailed it.

 

 

 

pretty much.

[mario_sunny]

I'de say it might exist. I got my first dragon legs drop after like, 20 steels. Ive killed AT LEAST 250 more and havent got another dragon drop or visage since.

 

 

 

I had to kill 2965 irons for a single visage... they don't come easy. And I've never heard of beginner's luck for visages, although I've heard of a lot of 'd legs on 20th steel' stories, which I do believe to be true. D legs are about 1/250 as are d skirts. Visages are probably 1/2000-2500 for irons.