Jagex Attempting to Stop Monopolies?

[davidium]

Anyone else want to replace the entire U.S. House with Jagex's staff? They at least understand how to fix their economy!

 

 

 

(I've never really had much of an opinion on GE price manipulation, but that might be because I stopped playing before the heyday of this "manipulation".)

 

Replace the U.S. House with Jagex's staff and get communist Russia and China? Is that what you want? Don't you know that Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher were famous for deregulating the American and UK's economies respectively...Thus bringing about great economic spurts?

 

 

 

The world has swung from that of a free market stance to a command economy stance and finally back to a free market stance once again albeit with a mixture of government intervention this time around. The free market came to a halt with the Great Depression but after a few decades the fall of the Berlin Wall just close to 2 decades ago signified the return of the free market but this time in the form of a mixed economy. The world has seen how both the free economy and command economy have failed and thus many feel that the mixed economy is the right way to go.

 

 

 

However the bigger question is THE EXTENT to which governments should interfere in the free market...if Jagex ran the US economy, there will be so much regulation and State Owned Enterprises which have no profit incentive of motive that it will result in great inefficiency and a failed economy. I'm not saying that the current US leaders are good either...many people blame Alan Greenspan for his lack of regulation because he kept interest rates at low levels allowing easy credit to form and thus the housing bubble to emerge. The current sub-prime crisis is the result of much greed among Americans both home-owners and people on Wall Street. I loved seeing how America fell...they really deserve it...look at their humongous trade deficit with the rest of the world and you will see the reason why they have been able to enjoy such high standards of living in recent years while the majority of the world slogged away in poverty.

 

 

 

America preached about the need for transparency and regulation but the hypocrites practiced none of that themselves.

 

A decade ago during the Asian financial crisis, countries such as Korea (one of the worst hit countries of the crisis) were cornered, bullied and bashed up with the many strict pre-conditions before the US would offer any form of aid to them...this time round the tables have turned and the Korean Development Bank (KDB) left Lehman in the lurch without bailing them out =D>

[snarkles]

Well, first off, Maple Story isn't exactly the kind of poster child you want to use as an example of how deregulation of a game is a good thing, and secondly, the other measure of banning manipulators could possibly freeze large amounts of material assets, which could then trap certain things at certain prices.

 

 

 

If anybody would like to come up with a solution (or dredge out an old unappreciated one) that both allows a free market and stops mass RWT abuse, as some folks say, I'd like for them to put up or shut up. I mean, sure if it's bad, whine and scream all you want, but it's not making anything better.

[Eddo89]

Is not as though most people are going to need to buy multiple sets of armour in 4 hours. Smithers don't give a damn about weapons, only ranging items are actually profitable anyway.

 

 

 

Perhaps is bad for merchants, but the nature of GE meant that most of the time, that 4 hours aren't going to see a drop/rise in price. You merely going to be buy low from the desperate, sell high to the needy. I'm not a merchant, I actually quite despise merchants whether or not they are doing things legitimately, so my opinion is that I don't care. But let me tell you something, you are not the only group to have money-making methods ruined by updates. Much as you hate to admit it, GE probably benefited (or least hindered) merchants more than all most group in money-making. So I have no sympathy if you are complaining because of that, but I don't mind if you argue the economics of the update.

 

 

 

On a personal stand point....hopefully we get less crowds in GE. Is a lag fest trying to go in there and buy/sell something because ordinary players and merchants is standing around there all day. Drives me nuts :wall:

[brongar]

 

There is an intrinsic counter for price manipulation in the free market. Caps on prices, price changes, and on the amount you can purchase are completely unnecessary... or would be, if Jagex were to fix the damn Grand Failure.

 

 

 

How do you propose to fix it?

 

 

 

Remove all the restrictions? What would be it diffirent from old system... apart from being faster? Part of this counter manipulation mechanism you talk about is supervision from various govermental and semi-govermental agencies. No market is truly free.

 

I agree that current system is bad and needs changing. What I disagree with is bringing old, inefficent system back. As i pointed out in the post i'd like to GE to be supervised rather than controlled.

 

 

 

Limitations on offers - Extended. 10%, or 15% perhaps, but not 5%.

 

 

 

Updating prices - 6+ times a day rather than 1, updates based on offers and uncompleted transactions rather than completed transactions.

 

 

 

 

Yup. Seems like a good idea to me. Floors and ceiling obviously gone.

 

 

 

 

As for the intrinsic mechanism, I don't care how many people are price manipulating Saradomin Godswords up. I'm not paying 500M for it. If you and a bunch of manipulators raise the price of an SGS beyond the price I'm willing to pay, I'll simply get it myself or live without it.

 

 

 

Supply and Demand is the concept that Jagex has failed to grasp so far. If an SGS is worth 50M at equilibrium, if you manipulate the price up to 60-70M, you won't be able to sell them, because it's not at equilibrium. The more above the equilibrium you go, the less you'll be able to sell. And all the extras that are trying to be sold will inevitably bring the price back down.

 

 

 

The reason market regulations are needed in the real world economy is that there are items you NEED. The majority of us can not go and produce our own food, despite the fact we NEED it to live. In Runescape, anything you need, you can get yourself. Anything you can't get yourself isn't a NECESSITY. And in truth, anyone can get anything with enough persistence.

 

 

 

Oh yeah you dont need it to live. You might want it though, to use and have fun so preventing ppl fromm buying it on more or less fairish price is not good. And they will be able to sell them at overinflated prices because they do sell them now... They dont have to worry about bringing price down because provided they sell on the way they are home and dry.

 

 

 

 

 

And btw. doesnt everyone get a bit annoyed when ppl start shouting w/o actually reading the post? The only items affected are the high-end ones meaning that for f2p it would be certain treasure trails stuff and rares. Rune is a medium class armour (which peves me to no end since i'm a smith ;/)

[dynastyfan0]

I did not read all the posts so if someone said this, w/e

 

 

 

I think the rares limit has to do with rares being unlocked and seem to be falling like they should have a long time ago. Mabey jagex feels like people will not be able to minipulate rares for profit with these limits, so they decided to let them hit their true market value. :twss:

[obfuscator]

They definitely are; I don't think they had a problem with individual merchants but the merching clans are their problem.

 

I see this as a temporary solution though, they may make much more drastic changes in the future.

[afroman103]

Why do we need 10 Godswords an hour again?

 

 

 

 

 

to show off the richness u have

[Timmypapaw]

I know that in the scheme of things I am a relative newcomer as I have only been playing Runescape for the last year now. Why Jagex feels they need to restrict any item for trading is not clear at all. In truth this makes as much since as when they imposed the trade limit. They are in control of the pricing at the exchange as it is, so where is the problem with anyone trading as many of any item as they wish. If you wish to make something unpopular to do. Then drop the price of the item down to where it is not longer profitable to try and mass sell it.

 

 

 

Someone in Jagex seems to have forgotten that first, foremost, and always this is and has been a game for each persons enjoyment. Stop trying to limit what people can and can't do inside the confines of a game in which you control in the first place. If someone has figured a way around the system in order to find more enjoyment for themself then so be it.

 

 

 

Anyone that is playing the game for the games sake will contuine to do so. We need to remember that here just like in real life there are different levels for people's mental processes. Some of us have the ablitiy to sit down and completely figure the game out and others don't. If someone is really playing the game and doesn't want to quit doing so, and they have come to their limit on the skills then they will turn to other elements to find their contuined joy in the game. If you limit them from doing so then the most likely out come is that they will leave the game and go elsewhere to play another game.

 

 

 

If enough rule changes are put in place and enough people become upset about them then the profit for Jagex to stay in business will not be there, and like any other business they will close. The simple point here is they set the rules to start with and now that people have found away to somewhat get around their rules they wish to change them so that you can only play it the way they wish.

 

 

 

This is no different than some child on a ball field yelling that it is my ball and if you don't play by my rules then I will take the ball and go home. Jagex needs to grow up and remember this is a business for them and not just a game as it is to the ones playing it. :thumbdown:

[vivimancer]

 

 

 

Someone in Jagex seems to have forgotten that first, foremost, and always this is and has been a game for each persons enjoyment. Stop trying to limit what people can and can't do inside the confines of a game in which you control in the first place. If someone has figured a way around the system in order to find more enjoyment for themself then so be it.

 

 

 

This is no different than some child on a ball field yelling that it is my ball and if you don't play by my rules then I will take the ball and go home. Jagex needs to grow up and remember this is a business for them and not just a game as it is to the ones playing it. :thumbdown:

 

 

 

The problem is that although you might have been very clever and worked out a way to gain an un-fair advantage over the competition, eventually everyone else will become so bored of your 'Im the king of the castle' attitude that they stop playing because there is no way for them to compete with you.

 

 

 

Its about balancing your 'freedom to' and my 'freedom from.'

[Range_This11]

 

to show off the richness u have

 

No, to merchant and manipulate prices. People who price manipulate the GE are just driving this economy into the dirt. Merchanters have always caused price crashes unless it was an update instituted by Jagex (Rune Essence).

[platinum1004]

i dont see the issue - jagex has identified several attempts to ruin the game for the profit of a few at the cost of the many and are doing their best within the constraints of a complex set of variables

 

 

 

i applaud their attempt and im sure it will be adjusted as time goes by to try to ensure effectiveness.

 

 

 

in principle i dont see the issue in limiting quantities on items which in the majority of cases would only need to be traded in low quantities

 

 

 

stop moaning about a free market - its not a free market as several prices are fixed in the game. your using the term free market as an excuse and cover for ripping people off

[Evil Pig20]

Sure, limit us to only buy half what we could before, all you need to do it get more people to price manipulate. Jagex cannot solve this problem unless they allow Rwt methinks.

 

 

 

Secondly I really dont see how this is a problem at all.

 

They are price [bleep]es - they level of in the end I.E - _____/\_____

 

 

 

Infact it actually is beneficial in many cases. Say you just happen to buy 10k gold ore for smithing purposes, then you find out 3 days later you have made 3m due to these "dirty evil cheats."

 

 

 

This really ins't fair on honest merchants such as myself. I used to buy runes in around 250k masses and sell them for just 3gp more than I bought them for. I can't do this anymore despite it being perfectly legitimate.

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex, stop babying RuneScaper's. Wait, I forget, RuneScape has become a baby game with all the recent updates allowing unde 13's to join. :roll:

[Omali]

Not sure if this has been posted but:

 

 

 

This week we have adjusted the GE to reduce monopolisation and other forms of manipulation so that the market remains accessible for everyone.

 

 

 

Merchants do have a place in the game. In some cases they contribute to keeping items available, and the market fluid. Of course, some people take satisfaction in using their intelligence to make a profit. In these ways, we recognise that merchanting can be a part of the game.

 

 

 

We have been careful to consider how merchants might be affected by changes, and have given them a generous allowance. A merchant can still make a very high value each day, by trading a range of items. This way merchants remain a positive part of our market, and with less negative consequences such as over-priced items, unavailable items, and price crashes.

 

 

 

Some of you are clearly very aware that manipulation of the market was occurring in various ways. Others have estimated the extremely high amount of profits which we see made by a few rich accounts trading high numbers of high value items.

 

 

 

When we design game content, quest rewards, new skills, we have to ensure the game fits together and is accessible, fair and worth playing. If people can make extreme amounts of money in ten minutes of trading, then how can we price a nice new weapon so that both someone really keen on playing the game for the boss encounters, or for skilling, has the means to buy it? The changes we have made are intended to address extreme activities and to ensure that the market is accessible and fair for everyone, and that everyone can have an impact on the price of items and they are not controlled by a minority.

 

 

 

You will have seen that recently we have been increasing the ease of buying other items, such as some raw materials, and some alch-able products. All these changes are part of ongoing review of the marketplace and we will of course be monitoring the effects that each change has, and continuing to listen to your feedback

[das]

I think its a good update, Price manipulation is a problem and has been for sometime. Chewy Shoe and Skone751 said long ago a true trader could make millions upon mills from raw materials, and they consistently proved it.

 

 

 

While its fun to flip the hot item and make mad cash, its much harder to make a buck off of the other markets and I like it that way.

[Soma2035]

[hide=quote]

Not sure if this has been posted but:

 

 

 

This week we have adjusted the GE to reduce monopolisation and other forms of manipulation so that the market remains accessible for everyone.

 

 

 

Merchants do have a place in the game. In some cases they contribute to keeping items available, and the market fluid. Of course, some people take satisfaction in using their intelligence to make a profit. In these ways, we recognise that merchanting can be a part of the game.

 

 

 

We have been careful to consider how merchants might be affected by changes, and have given them a generous allowance. A merchant can still make a very high value each day, by trading a range of items. This way merchants remain a positive part of our market, and with less negative consequences such as over-priced items, unavailable items, and price crashes.

 

 

 

Some of you are clearly very aware that manipulation of the market was occurring in various ways. Others have estimated the extremely high amount of profits which we see made by a few rich accounts trading high numbers of high value items.

 

 

 

When we design game content, quest rewards, new skills, we have to ensure the game fits together and is accessible, fair and worth playing. If people can make extreme amounts of money in ten minutes of trading, then how can we price a nice new weapon so that both someone really keen on playing the game for the boss encounters, or for skilling, has the means to buy it? The changes we have made are intended to address extreme activities and to ensure that the market is accessible and fair for everyone, and that everyone can have an impact on the price of items and they are not controlled by a minority.

 

 

 

You will have seen that recently we have been increasing the ease of buying other items, such as some raw materials, and some alch-able products. All these changes are part of ongoing review of the marketplace and we will of course be monitoring the effects that each change has, and continuing to listen to your feedback

[/hide]

 

 

 

That's further evidence of how the majority of Jagex staff failed pretty much any microeconomics classes they took. :wall:

 

 

 

Major crashes were instigated by a few people stocking up on the item ahead of time, then leading a whole bunch of inexperienced merchants to purchase the item, choking demand. 60 a day is still more than enough spread amongst hundreds of merchants. Many of them couldn't afford 600 a day anyhow.

 

 

 

"Merchants do have a place in the game. In some cases they contribute to keeping items available, and the market fluid. Of course, some people take satisfaction in using their intelligence to make a profit. In these ways, we recognise that merchanting can be a part of the game."

 

 

 

Those are the people who are getting the shaft with this update. Yes, you can spread out your investment over several items to reduce risk, but that also reduces your reward. Merchants who make careful market decisions no longer have the opportunity to earn the money they deserve, whilst the majority of mass merchanting, price manipulation, etc, remains completely untouched.

 

 

 

Luckily, Runescape's just a game, so even if the economy is completely and entirely messed up, I can enjoy it regardless. But this is a solid illustration of Jagex's idiocy. As said a million times before, the only reason we even have these problems is because the Grand Exchange was broken. It would be much more efficient to just fix the blasted thing, rather than come up with countless patches to cover all the weaknesses of the current system, such as Junk Trading, Price Manipulation, etc.

[Johannas]

Yeah i thought this was odd when i put on an offer for 20 torag's legs this morning at med price..

 

 

 

10 bought immediatly at min price so i got cash back... then the other ten didn't buy till i logged in 6 hours later...

[Randox]

The GE brings a curse that Jagex may or may not have seen coming. Because almost all trading goes through the GE, prices respond to shortages and surplus much faster because it is easier to notice. Just for all you thinking about all restrictions being removed, it would be total chaos.

 

 

 

Anyways, I see alot of Jagex needs to actualy sove the problem. I have seen much fewer ask the all important how. If you make teh GE less responsive to supply/demand, then yes, price manipulation will be slower if not harder, but then you have teh problem prices cant change when there is legitimate need.

 

 

 

The thing is there really is no way to prevent manipulation while allowing the price to change. You can make it harder by making it near impossible to buyout an item, but thats about as much as you can hope for.

 

 

 

There is a solution I can think of: When you buy certain items like god swords, you can simply never sell them. Maybe you can sell them over extreme ammounts of time, but really to make it work, if you bought one, you would never be allowed to sell it. Actualy this can be done for many things, allowing you to buy and sell a set of armour when you upgrade, but not allowing you to buy mass ammounts for selling. This rrestriction has to carry to trades too.

 

 

 

So whats better? Extreme restrictions on quantity bought? or not being able to sell multiples of weapons and armour that you buy (if you buy some piece of armour you can sell it, if you buy 2 you sell 2. Buy 3+, you can only sell 2). The second is a solution, it allows you to get a spare and change your mind. Any legitimate use of these items will eventualy lead to them being lost in combat anyways, so you should never need to sell them. This would also mean an end to merchanting, but all restrictions on quantity bought could be removed.

 

 

 

So what you want?

[Moad14]

I for one applaud this update. =D>

 

Every successful economy breaks up monopolies, thus encouraging competition. More competition means lower prices for everyone.

 

 

 

There are really only two ways you can create a stable economy.

 

A. A mixed economy, such as all the modern nations have.

 

B. A Communistic economy, which would work great, except people (especially "scapers") tend to get whiny, and equality is usually frowned upon, because people want to have more than others. If we could convince all RuneScape players to work for the good of the society, this would work insanely well.

 

 

 

Obviously only choice "A" is going to be effective, and it seems Jagex is slowly but surely working their way towards stability.

[michel555555]

People here seem to be happy about the new restrictions.

 

 

 

How do this restrictions improve your game?

 

 

 

I could be wrong, but merchants are one of the factors that keep the prices relatively stable. Yes, manipulators cause fluctuations, but around a certain level. When the price of an item gets relatively low, they attempt to buy it out and as a result the price of that item goes back up.

 

 

 

Without such natural regulation I expect prices of the limited items to go down only.

 

 

 

Will you be happy then?

 

When your TT or barrows or GWD or Visage (after thousands of metal dragons) or slayer or any other valuable item that you managed to receive as a drop sells for half/third/fourth the price that it is now?

 

 

 

And I also have no idea why Jagex believes restrictions are the solution of all problems.

 

This even went as a hidden update - no announcement, no reasoning.

 

 

 

i remember a time when zs was 300k they r what now 1m???

 

 

 

heres the base factors of all economies

 

supply and demand

 

 

 

suply goes up demand lessens prices fall

 

suply goes down demand goes up prices increases

 

merchants lessen the suplly causeing the prices to rise then sell back prices fall again they buy back and each time the prices increase because of all the people buying those supplies for use in the first place and merchants buy more back each time

 

 

 

no merchants no flucuations. prices keep droping

 

 

 

everyone is happy

 

 

 

and think about this if jagex wanted to get rid of merchants they could have put fixed!!!!! prices in making it so that prices never rise or fall and merchants would b extinct

 

 

 

think about that all merchants could b gone but jagex tried to keep you and only limited the damage you could do. b happy you have that much

[michel555555]

no offense against omali but while some people are quoting him, i shall quote Winston Churchill instead who once said, "if you destroy a free market, you get a black market" as well as Milton Friedman who said" The black market was a way of getting around government controls.

 

 

 

You can't create a black market that effects the prices on the G.E, so no offense to Milton Friedman and Winston Churchill, but they'd be utter noobs at Runescape economics

 

 

 

Churchill was a noob when it came to rl economics too. As Chancellor of the Exchequer he was responsible for a return to the gold standard which proved disasterous for the British economy in the 1920s.

 

 

 

 

 

um i believe that it is the lack of the gold standered in the U S today that is causing all the problems in the economy today

 

the gold standered makes it so that your cash is based on something that doesn't fluctuate and does not cause inflation unlike the american dollar which is literally worthless paper!!!! the gold standered ensures that your cash is actually based on something other than paper and ink

[Sammycorgi]

 

 

 

yes some people are saying that who needs to trade more than 10 godswords in a couple of hours but that is being rather one-sided and extreme...it is ridiculous how such blind people only think about armour and equipment as GODSWORDS and nothing else...how about smithers who are trading the produce of their skilling to others? as well as those who wish to high alch certain profitable armour parts? these players will find themselves at a loss on how to sell the armour they have smithed or buy the armour they want to high alch no?

 

 

 

O.K. Here goes. What would smithers possibly be making that involves such a high price. Of course (you will hate me for this) godsword shards can be smithed but it doesn't give much xp. And when I last checked people can't make TT items. So yeah. That's all.

[GrandeMago9]

It's still too liberal. Whatever happened to buying armor because you planned on using it, instead of screwing over some guy who wants to buy it so he can go fight monsters by buying up all the stock and making him pay extortion prices. The people who do that are no better than people who engage in ticket scalping to scam children at a freaking Hannah Montana concert.

 

 

 

 

Ticket scapling is not illegal though. It's a simple matter of suply and demand. If enough people want something, they will pay any price for it.

 

 

 

lrn2 economics

[Ryan31]

This should have been done a long time ago.

 

agreed.

[Blutters]

Would there not actually be a backlash from this, though?

 

Okay, so there are amount limits now. Might these limits actually cause people to begin buying up items faster rather than buying them in large quantities but over a longer period of time?

 

 

 

What I'm trying to say could probably be explained better. Some will get it and others won't.

[Azurechaos]

this is ridiculous..

 

 

 

they need to leave merchants alone.