Holiday Musings and a permanent solution to rares

[SoulAttacker]

Just as powerful solution:

 

1. Make all partyhats untradable.

 

2. Create an NPC that buys and sells these untradable partyhats at current market price.

 

3. Alternatively, create an NPC that buys phats at a lower price than selling them. It will buy them at current market price but sell them over. Over time, the influx of GP being introduced into the game will be balanced out by people buying these untradable partyhats for more than their selling price, thus removing GP that was introduced into the game and more.

 

 

 

Therefore, people still have "something to work for," if they so choose.

[dippymister]

nachalo

 

 

 

What happens if a player has multiple rares? (I've seen banks with 100+ santas, etc.) If they were given cash for all the rares, it would easily be over the 2b mark.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

From a F2P point of view, removing tradeable rares from the game would be horrible to us. What then would we have to work for other than skills? Many people in F2P will never become P2P, and so will never have other items to strive for with their vast amounts of money. In that case, rares are all we got to look forward to, really.

 

 

 

Also, I disagree that all other holiday items should be given to new people because they weren't there. It's not like we're trying to be greedy and "holier-than-thou" with our items no one else can get. We were in the right place at the right time. You weren't. It's no ones fault but yours that you hadn't joined RS earlier, and that doesn't entitle you to free items.

 

 

 

Amirite? :D

 

 

 

No, you're not. I was in the right place at the right time, but some people weren't, and I'm defending them. Someone has to stand up for the little guy.

[Troacctid]

Just as powerful solution:

 

1. Make all partyhats untradable.

 

2. Create an NPC that buys and sells these untradable partyhats at current market price.

 

3. Alternatively, create an NPC that buys phats at a lower price than selling them. It will buy them at current market price but sell them over. Over time, the influx of GP being introduced into the game will be balanced out by people buying these untradable partyhats for more than their selling price, thus removing GP that was introduced into the game and more.

 

 

 

Therefore, people still have "something to work for," if they so choose.

 

This would actually be a great idea someday, as the supply of rares slowly dwindles.

[qeltar]

Suggesting a "solution" to rares implies that there is a problem with them. Is there? Not that I can see.

 

 

 

They've become increasingly irrelevant as the number of older players and those who care about them decreases, and as Jagex continues to add new actually-useful items that are rare or at least uncommon.

 

 

 

The right time for Jagex to have done something about this was when they decided to stop making tradeable rares. They should have bitten the bullet back then and made all the rares untradeable. At this point I don't see how removing them or making them untradeable would accomplish anything.

 

 

 

~q

[PastyGangsta]

Nachalo.

 

 

 

Total agreement with your ideas. Although being given market value for rares simply to remove them might have some serious consequences on the economy. Maybe 3/4ths most rares, and 1/2 for Partyhats and Christmas Crackers.

 

 

 

I wouldn't mind having my Santa hats replaced with GP, since I could then just go pick one up from Diango. Everyone wins.

[Bloodkay]

 

Also, I disagree that all other holiday items should be given to new people because they weren't there. It's not like we're trying to be greedy and "holier-than-thou" with our items no one else can get. We were in the right place at the right time. You weren't. It's no ones fault but yours that you hadn't joined RS earlier, and that doesn't entitle you to free items.

 

 

 

Amirite? :D

 

 

 

No, you're not. I was in the right place at the right time, but some people weren't, and I'm defending them. Someone has to stand up for the little guy.

 

 

 

Um, you know, I've never actually seen anyone complain about how they don't have "x holiday item from x holiday". I get compliments on my items usually, but never do I see "Awww, I wish I were there to get one..."

 

And, can I also point out that by you saying "the little guy", it's stating that people who want all the holiday items are a minority. Last time I checked, Jagex doesn't exactly cater to the minority that well.

 

 

 

And if I'm bringing Jagex into this, I might as well go ahead and say they won't do what you're suggesting.

[Silver_Corner]

To understand the situation I think we need to ask the question: "Why would people desire rares such as party hats or bunny ears?"

 

 

 

Answer? Because they are rare and not that many people have them. Its human nature to desire something someone else has but you cannot receive. Even if you don't really want the item itself, its the fact you cannot receive it which makes you want it.

 

 

 

If people really wanted items like bunny ears/party hats for the sake of having all the holiday items, they would also be complaining if they didn't receive items like the Easter ring or Ice Amulet. But they aren't; by reading your post, the people you are defending only really desire the items such as the scythe because only a few people have them. If your idea went into place and everyone obtains the item, they would be as valued to people as a Christmas scarf.

 

 

 

Yes, Jagex did make a mistake keeping tradeable rares into the game, however there is little they can do now. Like others have mentioned I think there are ways to move rares out of the game, but is it worth the trouble? After all, a rare is simply just another item in a game like a godsword is.

 

 

 

Un-tradeable Holiday items are not just for fun, they are designed to show how long you have been playing. There would be no reason to change the way things are now just cause newbie10123 wants an item that was released 3 years ago.

 

 

 

And yes, I read your whole post. I don't need to put in some silly words showing I read it.

[Troacctid]

To understand the situation I think we need to ask the question: "Why would people desire rares such as party hats or bunny ears?"

 

 

 

Answer? Because they are rare and not that many people have them. Its human nature to desire something someone else has but you cannot receive. Even if you don't really want the item itself, its the fact you cannot receive it which makes you want it.

 

 

 

If people really wanted items like bunny ears/party hats for the sake of having all the holiday items, they would also be complaining if they didn't receive items like the Easter ring or Ice Amulet. But they aren't; by reading your post, the people you are defending only really desire the items such as the scythe because only a few people have them. If your idea went into place and everyone obtains the item, they would be as valued to people as a Christmas scarf.

 

 

 

Yes, Jagex did make a mistake keeping tradeable rares into the game, however there is little they can do now. Like others have mentioned I think there are ways to move rares out of the game, but is it worth the trouble? After all, a rare is simply just another item in a game like a godsword is.

 

 

 

Un-tradeable Holiday items are not just for fun, they are designed to show how long you have been playing. There would be no reason to change the way things are now just cause newbie10123 wants an item that was released 3 years ago.

 

 

 

And yes, I read your whole post. I don't need to put in some silly words showing I read it.

 

Actually, I'd much rather have an easter ring than bunny ears. And I would want a scythe to match my Grim Reaper Hood, not because it's rare.

[Bloodkay]

 

Actually, I'd much rather have an easter ring than bunny ears.

 

 

 

Yes, but you realize that you cannot obtain it now, and yet you're not complaining and sulking and rioting, right? :P

 

 

 

So then the OP really has no reason to "defend the little guy" because no one's complaining that they don't have the items. Sure, some agree that it's be cool to have all the items they didn't obtain, but other than that I don't see anyone really stressed out over it. Aside from the OP.

 

So I think that this whole thread is probably because the OP wants a scythe or something and can't get one so he decides to suggest that everyone gets all the holiday items.

[Lordjake]

Now if the topic had simply been about the history of rare items, their current market standing, and Jagex's stance on them, that would've been fine.

 

Yes, I realize that new players can't afford rares... that's NOT a problem. If they're upset that they can't afford a clothing item, that's their problem.

 

Yes, some people were lucky enough to have been playing when rares were dropped... but a large majority with rares today aren't among those few lucky people. The majority worked up and eventually got enough GP to buy their rare items, like new players will have to do if they want a rare item. Why do newer, poorer, players deserve to get free rare items when everyone else had to put a lot of effort into getting them?

 

 

 

But if when someone calls their idea to the Rare Market situation "mostly foolproof" and then doesn't respond to the biggest criticism of the idea, you can see what the problem is.

 

 

 

I may as well make a topic saying "Worldwide starvation is a problem. I have a mostly foolproof way to solve it - the Moon is made of cheese so we should go up and harvest the cheese to feed hungry people", then completely ignore the people who say that the Moon isn't actually made of cheese.

 

Yes the general idea is correct, but the solution is [developmentally delayed].

 

New players not being able to afford holiday items IS a problem because as pointed out multiple times already, they were meant to be fun items for people to share and not investment opportunities.

 

 

 

Also, we can all pretty much agree that his solution is "[developmentally delayed]" so why do you all feel the need to keep bringing it up? It doesn't say any more about your intelligence than his when you can't even recognize that the main focus of the discussion shouldn't be his idiotic ideas, but rather the issue of holiday items and how they are nowhere near where Jagex intended them to be.

 

 

 

As for your example...I'm telling you guys that you SHOULDN'T be the ones to tell him the moon isn't actually be made of cheese. Rather, you should have the intelligence to recognize that it should be ignored.

 

You see, that's where we differ.

 

I, and others, don't think there's any problem with rares. If Jagex had honestly wanted to do something to "fix" rares, they would've done it soon after the holiday items came out. It didn't take long for the items to begin gaining value, and therefore begin to become more and more unattainable for poor players.

 

Sure, they didn't expect the items to become so expensive, but their lack of foresight doesn't equate a problem, not when it comes to useless clothing items.... items that act as a huge money sink and keep the economy manageable.

 

 

 

And I keep bringing it up because Jard invited people with knowledge of economical matters to post here regarding his idea, and then he ignores the posts. He gets upset when people don't read his entire topic and put those 2 russian words into their response-posts, but then doesn't read (or ignores - which is worse?) the posts which prove his 'solution' wrong... hypocrisy at its worst.

 

I keep bringing it up because not only should he know better, but also because I'm hoping this will be the last "fix the rares" topic we have here for a very long time. None of the previous topics have resulted in anything useful, and neither has this one.

[Madmanpur3]

And I keep bringing it up because Jard invited people with knowledge of economical matters to post here regarding his idea, and then he ignores the posts. He gets upset when people don't read his entire topic and put those 2 russian words into their response-posts, but then doesn't read (or ignores - which is worse?) the posts which prove his 'solution' wrong... hypocrisy at its worst.

 

I keep bringing it up because not only should he know better, but also because I'm hoping this will be the last "fix the rares" topic we have here for a very long time. None of the previous topics have resulted in anything useful, and neither has this one.

 

Jard is about as thick-headed and narrow minded as they come. I've been trying to tell you all to just ignore his proposed solutions and to not worry if he ignores posts that prove his solution wrong. And while you're right that he SHOULD know better, he doesn't because that's just who he is.

 

 

 

Also, I bet Jagex would do something about the situation of holiday items if they weren't to freaking chicken [cabbage] - meaning if they so much as suspect the players won't take a liking to it, they won't even bother (regardless of whether or not they think it's the right thing to do). The obvious exception to this was their whole RWT situation, which in my opinion they still handled horribly.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

Someone posted a moon cheese analogy earlier. I would just like to say...

 

 

 

There are hungry children in Africa.

 

 

 

My solution: we should go to the moon and get cheese from it to feed them.

 

Your argument: the moon is not made of cheese, we can't do that.

 

 

 

Well... since the moon isn't made of cheese my idea won't work. But that doesn't mean the problem doesn't still exist. I'd rather you discuss the problem and how we can fix it, rather than discuss my ideas of fixing it. It needs to be fixed - that's all.

[kingbd]

Nachalo

 

 

 

The problem with this is that there is no problem. The wilderness was taken out because it was necessary, Jagex clearly didn't want to take it out but they had to because, as they stated, they might not ever have recovered from RWT.

 

 

 

In this case, you are saying that 'Well... since the moon isn't made of cheese my idea won't work. But that doesn't mean the problem doesn't still exist. I'd rather you discuss the problem and how we can fix it, rather than discuss my ideas of fixing it. It needs to be fixed - that's all.'

 

however what is the problem?

 

 

 

Since I started playing, just before zombie heads, partyhats were and are a status symbol, as are scythes and yoyo's. Partyhats may be useless, but that doesn't mean it is worthless. Just because something doesn't have a direct function which you can use it for doesn't mean people don't want it. If this was the case gold is is worthless. You must spend every penny or you are completely wasting it.

 

 

 

Still, what is the problem? I'm pretty sure that you aren't complaining about how much money rares are worth and what is wrong with them having an item that you or others don't? They started playing before you and you will find that with probably all MMO's out there people who play first get discontinued items. On some of these games the items are actually quite good, but not here. On RuneScape, what benefits do you gain from Scythes, YoYos and Rubber Chickens? Nothing. Just a status symbol to show that you have been playing the game for 'X' years.

 

 

 

So I will ask once more, what is the problem? The answer is that there isn't one, and you shouldn't try to fix something that isn't broken.

 

Konets

[qeltar]

I'd rather you discuss the problem and how we can fix it, rather than discuss my ideas of fixing it. It needs to be fixed - that's all.

 

 

 

I'd rather you first convince me that there's a problem before you work so hard to fix it.

 

 

 

A few people being jealous of something expensive that they cannot afford is not a systemic problem.

[Musky44]

Qeltar just verbally raped all of you guys.

[swordwarior]

Qeltar just verbally raped all of you guys.

 

agreed.

 

 

 

The only people who see rares as a problem are those that want to. If you don't like them, ignore them. Don't try and convince people they're a problem when they're not.

[Madmanpur3]

I'd rather you discuss the problem and how we can fix it, rather than discuss my ideas of fixing it. It needs to be fixed - that's all.

 

 

 

I'd rather you first convince me that there's a problem before you work so hard to fix it.

 

 

 

A few people being jealous of something expensive that they cannot afford is not a systemic problem.

 

Jagex designed Commander Zilyana's room to have pretty corners with the intent of them being pretty. These walls turned out to be safe spots for killing Commander Zilyana, an obvious lack of foresight. As a result players get to kill her and get lots of money and everyone's happy except for those who are being jealous of something they cannot do because they don't have the levels.

 

 

 

Jagex introduces holiday items with the intent of them being fun and celebratory. These holiday items turn out to be rare items because Jagex discontinues them and keeps them tradable, an obvious lack of foresight. As a result players who kept rares over time get lots of money and everyone's happy except for those who are jealous of something expensive that they cannot afford.

[Obtaurian]

To be perfectly honest, I just wish I could get the holiday items that I missed so long ago. I created my account before holiday items came into existence. Unfortunately, I was too young and too stupid to figure out how to play the game properly.

 

 

 

I feel bad for players who can't get the rubber chicken, snow globe, and Easter ring. In my opinion, those are the best ones of all.

 

 

 

How I long to whack people with a chicken...

[Wesleyao]

I read it all even if I don't use the code words.

 

 

 

I agree with you, rares are pointless to the vast majority of RS players. However you must take into account that MOST of the tradeable rares WERE DROPPED. Not the reward of an event. Therefore Partyhats, Christmas Crackers,and Santa Hats should stay(I've only been playing ~3 years myself so I don't know if this is correct). I do not personally own any of these rares and I never sought them out. But some people play just for that reason, to own a RARE. They are rare for a reason.

 

 

 

Also, because of the GP limit just giving players pure GP for their rares at current value would give a few players (hardcore rare hoarders) WELL OVER max GP. Meaning that they would LOSE a lot of the GP they took the time to make.

 

 

 

I have no say in the economic parts except that, all that added GP with nothing to stabilize it, be it a new "cash sink" skill or just new items, would be a waste. That's before you take into account the people who MH, skill, merchant, etc. just so they can own a rare.

 

 

 

These are just my thoughts though.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

I read it all even if I don't use the code words.

 

 

 

I agree with you, rares are pointless to the vast majority of RS players. However you must take into account that MOST of the tradeable rares WERE DROPPED. Not the reward of an event. Therefore Partyhats, Christmas Crackers,and Santa Hats should stay(I've only been playing ~3 years myself so I don't know if this is correct). I do not personally own any of these rares and I never sought them out. But some people play just for that reason, to own a RARE. They are rare for a reason.

 

 

 

Also, because of the GP limit just giving players pure GP for their rares at current value would give a few players (hardcore rare hoarders) WELL OVER max GP. Meaning that they would LOSE a lot of the GP they took the time to make.

 

 

 

I have no say in the economic parts except that, all that added GP with nothing to stabilize it, be it a new "cash sink" skill or just new items, would be a waste. That's before you take into account the people who MH, skill, merchant, etc. just so they can own a rare.

 

 

 

These are just my thoughts though.

 

 

 

The biggest problem I see with these types of items is that an unlimited number cannot be obtained. I liked the suggestion further up of an NPC selling them for an extremely high price. That's fine - but as long as there is a constant supply. I say the same for the untradeables.

 

 

 

Also, please stop posting about the GP cap. It is irrelevant to ANYTHING we are discussing because it is so incredibly easy to overcome, both with certificate-type items or an easy change of the internal coding.

[Bloodkay]

That could be a viable "solution" for rares that are tradable. Of course, you'd be having lots of people with massive amounts of money, cause they'd be selling all their items. If Party hats were in constant supply, no one would want to buy one at 300m, cause it wouldn't be rare. And then no one would buy santa hats or whatever after a while too, cause who wants a hat that everyone has and waste 14mil for it?

 

 

 

As for the untradable situation, I don't even know why you're discussing it still. Highly unlikely that Jagex will sympathize with you on this and start doling out every single holiday item everyone has missed. the more you suggest it, the more you sound like "Boohoo, I wasn't playing Runescape at a certain point in my life and missed free items, so Jagex should give them to everyone again."

 

You missed out, sorry dude, but hike up your pants and tell yourself you'll never miss another holiday event again so that you're not in the same situation. While I still kick myself for missing the rubber chicken, I'm not going to go ballistic and whine for items.

[Troacctid]

Well, the nice thing about having NPCs sell party hats and such would be that they could stay tradable, and the GE price could be matched up with the shop price. (Also, it would pave the way for amusing bits of dialogue making references to how cheap and worthless the items used to be. "You can pop the cracker with a friend, and one person will get a valuable piece of rune armour!")

 

 

 

I could easily imagine Party Pete taking up the sacred cause of spreading the party fever. And I bet we could do some haggling with Death to buy some Masks. Perhaps every Wintumber season Santa could stop in Runescape to sell Santa Hats. This sort of thing would replenish the supply of rares without diminishing their value, because the value would then become set based on the price they're now sold for.

 

 

 

(As for edibles, we've already had untradable easter eggs that dissolve after the holiday is over...the same could be done for pumpkins. Non-wearables like half-wines and disks of returning can, in my opinion, be ignored and allowed to disappear, as they have no use within the game.)

 

 

 

Is it really necessary to inject a new supply of party hats into the game? Probably not...yet. But in a few years...well, who knows?

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

That could be a viable "solution" for rares that are tradable. Of course, you'd be having lots of people with massive amounts of money, cause they'd be selling all their items. If Party hats were in constant supply, no one would want to buy one at 300m, cause it wouldn't be rare. And then no one would buy santa hats or whatever after a while too, cause who wants a hat that everyone has and waste 14mil for it?

 

 

 

As for the untradable situation, I don't even know why you're discussing it still. Highly unlikely that Jagex will sympathize with you on this and start doling out every single holiday item everyone has missed. the more you suggest it, the more you sound like "Boohoo, I wasn't playing Runescape at a certain point in my life and missed free items, so Jagex should give them to everyone again."

 

You missed out, sorry dude, but hike up your pants and tell yourself you'll never miss another holiday event again so that you're not in the same situation. While I still kick myself for missing the rubber chicken, I'm not going to go ballistic and whine for items.

 

 

 

I have a feeling you're the one who missed out. And who wants a hat everyone has? I do. Who wants a hat no one has? I don't. Who wants to waste a large amount of money on a hat with no use whatsoever? I don't know why anyone would.

[Ixindor]

Ok, I agree with this post 100%. So far, we've seen massive changes in this game as a whole. We have also survived them; the Wilderness being a huge example. I personally own a Yellow Phat (16M), Red Mask (24M) and Santa Hat (21M). Had them for many years now. I bought my Yellow Phat because it looks like a crown. I bought a Red Mask for my one day owning Full Dragon and having an alternate head piece. And I bought the Santa, for sharing back to the community. These items are NOT a status symbol to me. They are something I've wanted. At current prices, if they were taken away and the Market Value was placed in my bank, I wouldn't complain...under one condition. That I still had access to these items AFTER the items are replaced by a Market Value. If they only cost 1 GP in a store somewhere and anyone else could get to them, I wouldn't have the slightest problem with that.