Nerfing the 26k trick.

[Master_Smither]

They could easily implement a recording function that starts one minute prior to the report.

 

 

 

Whos going to report you if your tricking in lets say 20 wild at a remote place? If people wanted to trick they could walk to some remote place in a regular world. Hop to a pvp/bh world kill the guy, pick loot, and log back into a regular world. There are many remote places in the wild and all around Runescape in which people can trick and not be seen let alone reported.

Again, I say that people will always be willing to police other players. People would go out looking; revenge.

 

 

 

I highly doubt someone will waste their time in a Pvp world trying to find someone tricking somewhere especially because they wouldn't know what world they were in or have any clue where they were at which alot of asking or spying around. It'd be a tough rule to enforce even if they had a system that picked it up because not everyone dies with GP in their inventory some use junk like bolts.

 

Plus wouldn't most people's business on PvP Worlds be killing? :lol:

 

Unless they want to attack AND report you; insult to injury... #-o

 

 

 

As calzo said he'd die to clawers with 26k in his inventory and if Jagex had a system that detected that they'd wrongfully ban someone just because someone died to them with GP in their inventory.

 

 

 

The rule would be hard to enforce, almost impossible to detect if you use items instead of GP to die with, and would be responsible for many wrongful bannings if people act like Calzo and die to people with 26k for spite. All in all I'd say a bad rule that would act more as bluff than an actual rule they'd bother to enforce. But I'm not saying if they do make this a rule you can trick all you want because you could be reported by someone nearby.

 

 

 

They could easily implement a recording function that starts one minute prior to the report.

 

 

 

Whos going to report you if your tricking in lets say 20 wild at a remote place? If people wanted to trick they could walk to some remote place in a regular world. Hop to a pvp/bh world kill the guy, pick loot, and log back into a regular world. There are many remote places in the wild and all around Runescape in which people can trick and not be seen let alone reported.

Again, I say that people will always be willing to police other players. People would go out looking; revenge.

 

 

 

I highly doubt someone will waste their time in a Pvp world trying to find someone tricking somewhere especially because they wouldn't know what world they were in or have any clue where they were at which alot of asking or spying around. It'd be a tough rule to enforce even if they had a system that picked it up because not everyone dies with GP in their inventory some use junk like bolts.

People would do it all the time with RWTers and bots. There are certain places these people go, it wouldn't be that hard to find.

 

 

 

I have yet to see anyone bot 26king but I have seen some people admit to having people get ep and trick on their accounts. Also I highly doubt people will do 26king like they do now after it is made against the rules(if it happens that is). It will most likely be a once or twice a day thing to get a few extra GP in their bank.

 

 

 

People could easily go around in pk gear all day and get 100% EP then go to some remote area in the wild, kill their friend a few time, get the loot, hop to a regular world, and go on their marry way with some nice loot undetected.

[Ace6470]

They could keep the current artifacts system, but make them point-based, and certain artifacts are worth more points than other.

 

Then players could uses these points to exchange EITHER coins or items. The points for a certain item, lets say a dfs, is 500.

 

 

 

So when players exchange them for massive amount coins, the inflation will began, and causes dfs to rise in price. So then people could use the points to exchange for dfs, and sell them, keeping the prices balanced.

[Laura]

They could keep the current artifacts system, but make them point-based, and certain artifacts are worth more points than other.

 

Then players could uses these points to exchange EITHER coins or items. The points for a certain item, lets say a dfs, is 500.

 

 

 

So when players exchange them for massive amount coins, the inflation will began, and causes dfs to rise in price. So then people could use the points to exchange for dfs, and sell them, keeping the prices balanced.

The problem with that is that Jagex wants rare drops to be kept rare or dropped selectively.

[Kimberly]

They took time and effort to explain how this system worked. How the rules were set up. Heck, they even gave us a meter to track our drop potential!

 

 

 

How then can this be bannable? A 26k'er isn't scamming anyone. They aren't luring anyone. They're doing everything within the rules, much like those who manipluate the prices of items do.

 

 

 

The only time this is something against the rules is when someone is AFK and doing it. Yes, that's a lot of the 26k'ers, but not all of them.

 

 

 

If you go up to some 26k'ers, they'd be more than happy to talk with you. Some of them might even give you a fight. They might teleport if close to death, but that's no different than any other pker is there?

[stormveritas]

Jagex needs to decide if they want to make PKers happy, or make everyone else happy.

 

 

 

The bottom line is that to create rewards sufficient to make PKing seem "worth it", Jagex continues to use systems that are highly abusable. These abuses cause a mass inflation on the game, destroying the value of all other activities.

 

 

 

The PKing community is the "squeaky wheel" that has been repeatedly oiled, at the expense of non-PKers. Without intervention, the economy is currently approaching a tipping-point.

[Sir_Kurity]

Jagex needs to decide if they want to make PKers happy, or make everyone else happy.

 

 

 

The bottom line is that to create rewards sufficient to make PKing seem "worth it", Jagex continues to use systems that are highly abusable. These abuses cause a mass inflation on the game, destroying the value of all other activities.

 

 

 

The PKing community is the "squeaky wheel" that has been repeatedly oiled, at the expense of non-PKers. Without intervention, the economy is currently approaching a tipping-point.

 

 

 

Ultimately, if PVP was nerfed, there would be less PKers, this would affect other areas of the community possibly worse than they are affected now, and all in all would probably be negative.

 

 

 

Some of the higher level food, lobs and swordfish would never sell if not for pking, potions would have no market, there would be half as much demand for weapons and armor, particularly 2h swords which have no apparent use outside PVP, as well as god knows how many other things.

[Kevin_]

Jagex needs to decide if they want to make PKers happy, or make everyone else happy.

 

 

After being a commited player for several years, i can tell you there's no possible way to keep everyone happy.

[Hajutze]

The best solution IMO is to remove the curent statue rewards and to add new pvp only (not like the ancient equipment degradable [cabbage]) rewards that are a common drop. In other words - if you PvP because you like to PvP and not for the cash reward you can kill 2-3 people get 1-2 sets of full equipment and even when you die you can continue ...

 

or something like the fog point system which should be kind of the same.

[stormveritas]

 

 

 

Ultimately, if PVP was nerfed, there would be less PKers, this would affect other areas of the community possibly worse than they are affected now, and all in all would probably be negative.

 

 

 

Some of the higher level food, lobs and swordfish would never sell if not for pking, potions would have no market, there would be half as much demand for weapons and armor, particularly 2h swords which have no apparent use outside PVP, as well as god knows how many other things.

 

 

 

The positive effect of PVP's stimulus to materials is nowhere near sufficient to offset the incurred inflation driven by cash-based drops ranging into the several million GP realm.

 

 

 

So long as this method remains the best way to make money, the game will continue to skew towards imbalance. Raws, such as yews, mithril/adamant/rune, herbs, etc. will continue to be driven higher and higher, until the pursuit of those items becomes a relatively desirable activity again.

 

 

 

While this seems like "normal order", it is not. The game is based on a delicate pricing balance wherein items such as yew log prices drive several other indices, as well as potential use of skills such as fletching, magic, etc. When raws [bleep]e, those that skill are absolutely -crushed- by this influx of cash.

 

 

 

Additionally, your gold pile is fast approaching Enron stock status as toilet paper, as the buying power of gold is continually driven further and further down by the influx of cash to the game.

 

 

 

The fact that PVP is naturally desirable from a fun AND profit perspective creates an imbalance that, left unhindered, will destroy the game.

[Michaael]

[hide=]

 

 

 

Ultimately, if PVP was nerfed, there would be less PKers, this would affect other areas of the community possibly worse than they are affected now, and all in all would probably be negative.

 

 

 

Some of the higher level food, lobs and swordfish would never sell if not for pking, potions would have no market, there would be half as much demand for weapons and armor, particularly 2h swords which have no apparent use outside PVP, as well as god knows how many other things.

 

 

 

The positive effect of PVP's stimulus to materials is nowhere near sufficient to offset the incurred inflation driven by cash-based drops ranging into the several million GP realm.

 

 

 

So long as this method remains the best way to make money, the game will continue to skew towards imbalance. Raws, such as yews, mithril/adamant/rune, herbs, etc. will continue to be driven higher and higher, until the pursuit of those items becomes a relatively desirable activity again.

 

 

 

While this seems like "normal order", it is not. The game is based on a delicate pricing balance wherein items such as yew log prices drive several other indices, as well as potential use of skills such as fletching, magic, etc. When raws [bleep]e, those that skill are absolutely -crushed- by this influx of cash.

 

 

 

Additionally, your gold pile is fast approaching Enron stock status as toilet paper, as the buying power of gold is continually driven further and further down by the influx of cash to the game.

 

 

 

The fact that PVP is naturally desirable from a fun AND profit perspective creates an imbalance that, left unhindered, will destroy the game.

[/hide]

 

 

 

Spot on. In all respect to PKers, I would rather see them upset over a PvP overhaul than have the entire game ruined.

 

 

 

Whole Game > PvP

[Blutters]

The best solution IMO is to remove the curent statue rewards and to add new pvp only (not like the ancient equipment degradable [cabbage]) rewards that are a common drop. In other words - if you PvP because you like to PvP and not for the cash reward you can kill 2-3 people get 1-2 sets of full equipment and even when you die you can continue ...

 

or something like the fog point system which should be kind of the same.

 

I think that I'd like PvP if there was absolutely no risk too. : :| -.-

 

(Actually I really did campaign for no-loss full worlds without rewards, but apparently that's a waste of their resources :thumbdown: )

 

 

Additionally, your gold pile is fast approaching Enron stock status as toilet paper...

 

:lol:

 

I think that you're both right, except for Es0 on the following points...

 

 

Some of the higher level food, lobs and swordfish would never sell if not for pking, potions would have no market, there would be half as much demand for weapons and armor, particularly 2h swords which have no apparent use outside PVP, as well as god knows how many other things.

 

Aren't Lesser and Greater Demons and Ankous some of the best training monsters on F2P? Then there's still demand for mid level fish.

 

Doesn't most anyone use potions for boss battles, quests, and training?

 

Aren't Godswords used by anyone with some cash for PvP, Slayer, and boss battles? (Unless you meant just normal 2h swords...)

 

 

 

Sorry, I just don't like how you phrased that. Sure, demand would go down, but I don't think that for most of these items PK'ing was ever the main source of demand in the first place. I was surprised that you said nothing about runes either... :|

 

You also need to consider that there are other PvP (thus you should be saying 'PK'ing' rather than 'PvP') routes that often include these items.

[Sir_Kurity]

 

Whole Game > PvP

 

 

 

PVP will hardly "destroy" the game.

 

 

 

Aren't Lesser and Greater Demons and Ankous some of the best training monsters on F2P? Then there's still demand for mid level fish.

 

Doesn't most anyone use potions for boss battles, quests, and training?

 

Aren't Godswords used by anyone with some cash for PvP, Slayer, and boss battles? (Unless you meant just normal 2h swords...)

 

 

 

Actually, giant spiders are better according to most of the people i meet...

 

 

 

I meant normal 2h swords, as well as dark bow, gmaul and most other "ko" weapons which would have no other use besides PVP. Also, as far as i can tell from what people say, godswords are only ever better than whip when versing high defence bosses.

 

 

 

Demand WOULD go down, and it would make a great deal of pkers unhappy.

 

 

 

People won't quit because there is inflation, people may quit if there is no PVP.

 

 

 

I was surprised that you said nothing about runes either...

 

 

 

Yea... passed my mind.

 

 

 

Anyway, the point is, PVP does increase demand for otherwise rarely used items, and removing it will effect the economy negatively.

[Michaael]

PVP will hardly "destroy" the game.

 

 

 

Mass inflation and economic ruin aren't under the category of "destroy"? What if I rephrased it with "greatly reduced playing enjoyment due to gp being worthless and raw materials at sky high prices*"?

 

 

 

*Due to the problem of 26king bringing in so much cash

 

 

 

Edit: added the *

[Sir_Kurity]

Yes, reduced playing enjoyment because money is easy to get! But everything costs more!

 

 

 

See the balance?

[Michaael]

Yes, reduced playing enjoyment because money is easy to get! But everything costs more!

 

 

 

See the balance?

 

 

 

So you're saying that every single player should log on and 26k every day just so they can afford to buy the inflated items?

 

 

 

See the imbalance?

[Sir_Kurity]

Raw materials cost is increased, so money making with yews and stuff is increased as well, not just 26k.

 

 

 

See the balance?

[Michaael]

And you honestly think that's good for the game? It doesn't change the fact that a player can literally create millions of GP a day and buy items with GP that shouldn't exist. They are overloading the economy with GP

[Sir_Kurity]

I never said its good for the game did i.

 

 

 

I'm just saying theres a balance, and its not to much worse than it was before.

[Michaael]

You defend it like it's good for the game :?

 

 

 

I don't want to get in an argument or anything over this, MMG said "we are planning to nuke it (the 26k trick)" anyhow, so I guess it doesn't really matter to debate over it anyways

[Sir_Kurity]

Yea, im sort of just arguing with the people who want to remove PVP and pissing off every single pker in the game AGAIN for no good reason other than "money now 2 easy to get, i nuke pvp now"

[yuriqiu]

Raw materials cost is increased, so money making with yews and stuff is increased as well, not just 26k.

 

 

 

See the balance?

 

Okay so here is the scenario of your world in which yews has increased.

 

 

 

Yew Log is now 1k, Nature rune, luckily limited by shops, tops at around 350 gp, Flax rises to around 250gp each. The cost to fletch a Yew long now is 1.25k, alching is 1.6k. Alched result = 768 gp. In this world, will you train mage with alching? The demand from mage trainer is now gone. With the alchers gone, fletchers will not be able to sell bows or fletch without suffering from a massive loss. Fletching is now a dead skill. With fletching gone, woodcutters and flax pickers loses the motive to gather material. Wc, Fletch, and mage are now dead skills. Nature runes will lose market after noone bothering to buy. Runecrafting is now a dead skill as well. P ess collectors will have no one to sell to. Does this game still sound fun to play?

[Kimberly]

Raw materials cost is increased, so money making with yews and stuff is increased as well, not just 26k.

 

 

 

See the balance?

 

Okay so here is the scenario of your world in which yews has increased.

 

 

 

Yew Log is now 1k, Nature rune, luckily limited by shops, tops at around 350 gp, Flax rises to around 250gp each. The cost to fletch a Yew long now is 1.25k, alching is 1.6k. Alched result = 768 gp. In this world, will you train mage with alching? The demand from mage trainer is now gone. With the alchers gone, fletchers will not be able to sell bows or fletch without suffering from a massive loss. Fletching is now a dead skill. With fletching gone, woodcutters and flax pickers loses the motive to gather material. Wc, Fletch, and mage are now dead skills. Nature runes will lose market after noone bothering to buy. Runecrafting is now a dead skill as well. P ess collectors will have no one to sell to. Does this game still sound fun to play?

 

 

 

You're forgetting the factor of supply, however. If yew logs become so profitable to cut and sell, more people will start harvesting them. Eventually, too many will be producing for the price of the log to stay the same, so it'll start steadily decreasing. Thus, the balance will be preserved.

[yuriqiu]

Raw materials cost is increased, so money making with yews and stuff is increased as well, not just 26k.

 

 

 

See the balance?

 

Okay so here is the scenario of your world in which yews has increased.

 

 

 

Yew Log is now 1k, Nature rune, luckily limited by shops, tops at around 350 gp, Flax rises to around 250gp each. The cost to fletch a Yew long now is 1.25k, alching is 1.6k. Alched result = 768 gp. In this world, will you train mage with alching? The demand from mage trainer is now gone. With the alchers gone, fletchers will not be able to sell bows or fletch without suffering from a massive loss. Fletching is now a dead skill. With fletching gone, woodcutters and flax pickers loses the motive to gather material. Wc, Fletch, and mage are now dead skills. Nature runes will lose market after noone bothering to buy. Runecrafting is now a dead skill as well. P ess collectors will have no one to sell to. Does this game still sound fun to play?

 

 

 

You're forgetting the factor of supply, however. If yew logs become so profitable to cut and sell, more people will start harvesting them. Eventually, too many will be producing for the price of the log to stay the same, so it'll start steadily decreasing. Thus, the balance will be preserved.

 

 

 

The thing is, yew log will not make the 1m/hr that pvp garrentees until its price is even alot higher than 1k. When yew logs was around 300gp each. The gp/hr yeild was 72k/hr (Going by Troaccid's woodcutting guide, yew section's yeild at 99 wc of 240log/hr). that means, for yew log to yeild the bare minimum of 1m/hr, it will have to rise to 4166gp each. Does that fit my scenario yet?

 

 

 

PS - Thanks to Troaacid's guide on AOW, I calced that for Mage logs to make 1m/hr, it has to be 8333gp each.

[Sir_Kurity]

Pvp hardly guarantees 1m/hr.

 

 

 

Some people would be lucky to get 200k/hr.

[wioneo]

I just don't see what bad would happen from capping the possible drops at what the person lost. I don't personally care for pking, but the current system seems to punish people who legitimately seek out and kill random people, which is...bad, I would think.

 

 

 

Maybe I should start floating around MMGs chat to catch all these random, semi useless bits of info...