10th July 2009 - The Jagex Anti-Hijack System and DevBlog

[walka92]

i wouldnt buy one of the security key things, even though they were considering giving people extra pank space. i dont use all of my bankspace, barley 1/2 of it, so the extra incentive of bank space doesnt do it. maybe if they gave some other sort of additions for it, i would. but until they choose a bonus that would help me, i wont get one. i dont want to have to have the keygen with me every time i log on, and what if i lose it? sounds like a burden more than a bargain

[Lets_3ekout]

i wouldnt buy one of the security key things, even though they were considering giving people extra pank space. i dont use all of my bankspace, barley 1/2 of it, so the extra incentive of bank space doesnt do it. maybe if they gave some other sort of additions for it, i would. but until they choose a bonus that would help me, i wont get one. i dont want to have to have the keygen with me every time i log on, and what if i lose it? sounds like a burden more than a bargain

 

I'm guessing if you lose it you could still recover using either the traditional recoveries or much easier, with your e-mail.

[XCRunner772]

The second one sounds like they took it from "Final Fantasy 11 Online". They have the same exact thing. It costed 10 dollars, it came in the mail, and, as an added bonus, they doubled your inventory space.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

 

Dark_Lord, perhaps you should look more into security practices before flying off the handle about stuff you just don't understand.

 

Figures, always the one person that likes to insult when he discusses. :roll:

 

 

 

I wasn't aware I flew off any handle. I simply gave my opinion, to only be flamed by you. No, I didn't say I expected it to be free. I simply said I was disgusted that they have to go down to tricks of offering incentives like that to get more money. Like said, it's my opinion they do it for the money - not for our security. Seems like they're hitting 2 birds with one stone... but are they really? That's my opinion, and if you don't like it... well SORRY buddy! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

 

It's not that I'm flaming you for your opinion. In fact, I gave you three counter points to it, but you instantly go for the flame bait. That's typical, I suppose.

 

 

 

But let me reply to this post in earnest. You implied in an earlier post (the post I responded to) that you resented the idea you would be paying for it:

 

 

 

It's rather disgusting to see Jagex come out with something like this, mainly for the fact that they want to charge people for it.

 

 

 

Whereas on the other hand, I adamantly disagree with your opinion. They're not doing this for money, they're doing this to keep players secure. Deploying a security solution like this is NOT cheap, okay? $20 for that kind of security, honestly, it's a bargain - you're not into the kind of stuff I am (Computer Science), so you wouldn't know, but consider that to get something like that to guarantee peace of mind with confidential data, it would cost between $80 and $200.

 

 

 

Again, it's not that I'm flaming you for your opinion. It's just grossly misinformed.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

No, it wasn't a troll. You'd have seen that had you read the rest of my reply.

 

 

 

I don't know what the fuss is about, even if they did offer increased bank space - it's an incentive. Nothing more. Do you not know what an incentive is? Because it doesn't seem like you do.

 

 

 

The point was that I can't believe they stated it like that...It is one thing to say "if you buy this thing, we'll give you an extra bonus of some more bank space!"

 

 

 

But I simply find it shocking that they correlated it with account security. I can't tell if its simply an attempt at humor, or if they are actually trying to convince players that if they make their account more secure, Jagex will be more willing to add bank space to their account. This possibility concerns me, because if somebody ends up actually thinking that bank space actually has anything to do with account security, they might actually buy this thing, with hopes that the one-time space upgrade could eventually turn into other rewards due to the fact that their account is now "secure".

 

 

 

Its one thing to try to give buying incentives, but its another thing if they are actually trying to say that the "reason" you get the bank space is due to better security (when we all know that the only reason you will be getting any bank space is due to a real world financial transaction).

 

 

 

I hope you understand my thought better now.

[Saru Inc]

I guess they are ready to be flooded with requests from people that lost their security key.

 

 

 

Seems like a joke to me.

 

 

 

Seems more like a way to make extra money off new players and people who want bankspace badly than a joke. Either way I find it kind of sad.

 

 

 

Well, you also got to admit, even with the higher membership fee, Jagex still is making a lot less money than they could be, and besides, they're not doing this for philanthropy (sp?), but for business. They're a company and their goal is to make money. Besides, 10$ isn't even .5% of how much money I make every week, and it's a one time expense, honestly, though I've never been hacked, ( I did fall for the old "Jagex doesn't block your password! Look: (spam), you try it!" and I lost my account for maybe.. 15 minutes) I would certainly pay on the odd occasion I do get my account stolen. Although I only have ~380 bank spaces in use, who doesn't want more? Though I'd go for more bank *features* than space imo.

[strilmus]

Sorry to dust this old reply off, but I still think you're reading too much into this and that they're trying to come up with solutions and on the whole, the concept isn't that bad....

 

 

 

I still don't know why everybody's so paranoid all the time and act like they're some evil organization that's out to get you when your back is turned. I couldn't play a game if I had to worry about that every minute I'm logged in.

 

 

 

They ain't no Viacom, that's for sure.

[X3EN]

I would definetly buy it, since it means more bank space and ability to play rs on every computer, even if the owner purposely has keyloggers running on it.

 

 

 

EDIT: if I weren't banned, I would try to catch a JMod on-line (they mainly come after a content upgrade, easy prey ;P) and discuss about using fingerprint sensors to login. You have to admit, nowadays a lot of laptops come with these and they are no longer expensive or hard to come by. Yes, I have to admit, they will be forced to store your fingerprint data along with other credentials and considering the size of their userbase, it might weigh much (compared to account/email/hash/recv questions currently).

 

 

 

[That is, compared to the size of the unique identifier of the secure keygen]

[X3EN]

 

2) The system will have to be compatible with all PC operating systems; windows 2000 onwards, MacOS, Linux etc. etc. If Jagex miss even one of these out it will go against the founding priciple of being able to play RS on ANY PC irregardless of age, capacity, etc. Also, chances are that if you buy new PC it will have a different OS to the PC you have and you will have to buy another dongle.

 

3) You won't be able to play RS on public computers, eg. at libraries, or internet cafes, as the majority of these places do not allow you to plug hardware into their computers to reduce the risk of virus's etc.

 

4) You will have to buy the thing which makes a mockery of F2P as it will no longer be truly "free"

 

5) Chances are that if you are playing on a laptop you may not have a free USB port to insert the device into, so immediately you are disadvantaged which again goes against the founding principles of RS (see 2).

 

6) If the device works in the same way as similar devices I have come across if you lose it (or damage it) you will not be able to access RS again until you have persuaded Jagex that you have lost it, paid for a new one and waited for it to arrive. Depending on where in the world you live this could take several weeks.

 

 

 

2, 3, 4, 5 are nonsense. I wont argue with an idiot who thinks he knows everything.

 

6 ahem... if you damage your house keys, you wont be able to get in unless you repair/replace them... Isn't that... obvious?

 

Anyway, I believe once you buy it, you aren't forced to use it forever. So until you buy a new one, you (most probably) will be able to recover your account and disable the additional security feature.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

 

No, it wasn't a troll. You'd have seen that had you read the rest of my reply.

 

 

 

I don't know what the fuss is about, even if they did offer increased bank space - it's an incentive. Nothing more. Do you not know what an incentive is? Because it doesn't seem like you do.

 

 

 

The point was that I can't believe they stated it like that...It is one thing to say "if you buy this thing, we'll give you an extra bonus of some more bank space!"

 

 

 

But I simply find it shocking that they correlated it with account security. I can't tell if its simply an attempt at humor, or if they are actually trying to convince players that if they make their account more secure, Jagex will be more willing to add bank space to their account. This possibility concerns me, because if somebody ends up actually thinking that bank space actually has anything to do with account security, they might actually buy this thing, with hopes that the one-time space upgrade could eventually turn into other rewards due to the fact that their account is now "secure".

 

 

 

Its one thing to try to give buying incentives, but its another thing if they are actually trying to say that the "reason" you get the bank space is due to better security (when we all know that the only reason you will be getting any bank space is due to a real world financial transaction).

 

 

 

I hope you understand my thought better now.

 

If I do, then I believe that you're clutching at straws here.

 

 

 

I must include that the possibility of an in-game incentive is simply on the table, and it's not in stone - in fact, it might get changed or removed altogether based on the out-lash/complete misinterpretation of the community. I've said that the offering of this token (be it bank space or something else) is simply nothing more than an incentive, and anything further would definitely be reading too deep into this.

 

 

 

I also fail [quite hard, by the way] to see the problem with Jagex offering bank space in exchange for cash. Members get that as part of their perk. Freeplayers have a unique way to manage their entire game career into 68 spaces, and there's always the option to upgrade solely for that.

 

 

 

As far as I see it, it's just an incentive. Nothing more, nothing less. Buy the dongle that radically increases your account security, and we'll give you a few bank spaces. That's all they're saying - that's all they're mumbling about. Why are you reading so deep into this?

[Domovoi]

The upgrade to the servers and this proposed USB dongle device sounds good to me. While personally I probably won't bother buying one, it does look like an attractive device for those who've had problems with account security or just want peace of mind for a small price. However I don't understand why so many people think that it some evil moneygrabbing tactic by jagex. It's simply an option if you desire it and will not affect you personally if you choose not to buy it.

[Behind_you0]

Since the new CEO was hired, Runescape is going downhill.

 

 

 

One of the basic-principles is abondened. Everyone is equal, you won't get advantages through buying. But now 'poor IRL' F2P'ers will suffer.

 

 

 

Good job, new CEO. I want Andrew back :( . I miss the BTS as well.

[Maximusa]

Sounds great to me. Been playing too many years and a fool proof security feature would be welcomed.

 

 

 

As a choice - Although the first login takes a bit longer IF its manual - You wouldnt need to put a bank pin and using this you can type in it at the login SAVING time by not putting your bank pin after any hops during -playing- time. Overall it would balance out and personally I get annoyed putting ingame bank pins in. I rather put all my passwords in at the start rather than during gameplay.

 

 

 

More information on recovery is needed though before deciding to lose that.

 

 

 

IF it has the plugin option -no typing- then it be even more convenient without having to either put that key or your bank pin in. AND you can play on whatever pc at any location without worrying anymore. I simply do not play runescape (Or any other activity) on other pc's unless I personally setup their security to prevent my passwords being stolen. (Or have their own personal keylogger.) With this thing I could do whatever I want anywhere I want and not worry about it. Its as safe as all my other -keys- I would worry more about losing.

 

 

 

Cost - 10 quid max inc postage but I would rather 5 quid inc postage. I might pay 15 quid inc postage but less happy with that. I cant really care about bankspace but whatever. I mean c'mon my account is worth alot more than that that its a good deal, safer, more mobile and more convenient security for me. Its understandable why most people wouldnt see the point, need etc but for others who like security it is a nice addon feature thats mostly fool proof. The best you could ever hope for for a game.

 

 

 

(Lol at people saying jagex in rwt - LOL - (membership) *Hits head on wall* I thought jagex were a business not a charity. They covering their costs, pay their staff, better customer support and possibly a little profit is not a bad thing. Possibly its true they chucking in bank space to attract more people to buy it but thats so its even possible rather than any substantial profit. AND ITS A BUSINESS. Its OK for them to sell things its THEIR game. Its obviously not selling items seperately but to intrigue people. I havnt studied business but I can see theres a big difference and im guessing common business tactic to entice people. Although its uncommon its good buisness practice to ensure customers are happy. Like not losing their accounts and quitting.. Thats where they make money. Players not quitting and telling other people good feedback about the game. The sad thing is.. That people are whining about them rwt when in reality they are probably losing money for their players security by implementing this feature.)

[Smapla]

they really should have avoided comparing it to a flash drive. so many people are misinterpretting it, thinking they'll need to plug it in.

 

 

 

 

 

these devices take the current time as an input, and through a complex and hopefully near impossible to reverse engineer algorithm, output a PIN number. the algorithm is different for each device, and the first time you use it after you buy it, you probably have to enter its serial number or similar into some applet on the jagex site, which ties that device to your account. when you read the code off of the device to log in, the same algorithm is run on jagex's side, and if the two codes match, you're in

[Omali]

Since the new CEO was hired, Runescape is going downhill.

 

 

 

Your sentiment is shared by a tiny minority. Downhill? Yea, because I loved the old days where mentioning Tip.It or saying [wagon] would get your muted, where bots ruled the game, and I couldn't make a single post on the RSOF marketplace forums without every offer being "lol com to neer egevil wildy, ill traed u there" because every 10 year old and his brother thought they were a l337 scammer.

 

 

 

One of the basic-principles is abondened. Everyone is equal, you won't get advantages through buying. But now 'poor IRL' F2P'ers will suffer.

 

Good job, new CEO. I want Andrew back :( . I miss the BTS as well.

 

 

 

They'll "suffer"? How? Are they suffering now? No? Then be quiet. Yes? Then nothing will change.

 

 

 

Also, Andrew hasn't been CEO since 2001. Constant Tedder was CEO, followed by Geoff Iddison, followed by Mark Gerhard. But don't worry about facts, they're usually biased.

[sheep455_is_the_best]

they really should have avoided comparing it to a flash drive. so many people are misinterpretting it, thinking they'll need to plug it in.

 

 

 

 

 

these devices take the current time as an input, and through a complex and hopefully near impossible to reverse engineer algorithm, output a PIN number. the algorithm is different for each device, and the first time you use it after you buy it, you probably have to enter its serial number or similar into some applet on the jagex site, which ties that device to your account. when you read the code off of the device to log in, the same algorithm is run on jagex's side, and if the two codes match, you're in

 

 

 

 

 

This.

 

 

 

Too many people think this. God, I'm glad not everyone did =D>

 

It only LOOKS like an USB, it isn't one.

 

 

 

I might buy one, if they aren't too costly, and the login process doesn't get all slow etc.

 

Hopefully it will just ask for the key every X amounts of logins, or something like that.

[Ciabelle]

Never been hacked in the 3 years I've played RS. I don't like this idea on the general principle that I wouldn't want a proprietary password generator. Imagine if the idea gained traction and suddenly you ended up with a USB dongle for most every website, bank account, work-related database, etc. You'd have more dongles than conventional keys on your keyring.

 

 

 

If you lost your dongle(s) then it falls back to how well you manage any sort of "master password(s)" For someone who'd need this in the first place, my guess is they'd use an easy to guess master password, and someone would have carte blanche access to everything they accessed online, while the rightful owner was locked out of everything.

 

 

 

Honestly, I don't even use an RS bank pin. The anti-mouse tracking feature is annoying, and tighter security than even my primary bank account! I don't open unsolicited file attachments, surf for cheats/cracks/hacks, I regularly scan for spyware, and have javascript/flash disabled by default, running Firefox.

 

 

 

Perhaps I might want/tolerate such extra security measures if I needed privileged access to sites of national security interest. But again, I don't need such precautions for even my own finances, and especially not for an MMORPG!

[jimv]

This is an excerpt form the wikipedia page on Two-factor authentication. I believe it pretty well describes what the device in question is.

 

 

 

"Some manufacturers also offer a One Time Password (OTP) token. These have an LCD screen which displays a pseudo-random number consisting of 6 or more alphanumeric characters (sometimes numbers, sometimes combinations of letters and numbers, depending upon vendor and model). This pseudo-random number changes at pre-determined intervals, usually every 60 seconds, but they can also change at other time intervals or after a user event, such as the user pushing a button on the token. Tokens that change after a pre-determined time are called time-based, and tokens that require a user event are referred to as sequence-based (since the interval value is the current sequence number of the user events, i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.). When this pseudo-random number is combined with a PIN or password, the resulting passcode is considered two factors of authentication (something you know with the PIN/password, and something you have from the OTP token). There are also hybrid-tokens that provide a combination of the capabilities of smartcards, USB tokens, and OTP tokens."

 

 

 

 

 

Here is the link to the wikipedia page:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-factor_authentication

 

 

 

Actually a pretty informative page as it also goes into drawbacks of these types of systems.

 

 

 

Another snipet from the page on costs:

 

 

 

"Cost effectiveness

 

There are drawbacks to two-factor authentication that are keeping many approaches from becoming widespread. Some consumers have difficulty keeping track of a hardware token or USB plug. Many consumers do not have the technical skills needed to install a client-side software certificate.

 

 

 

As a result, adding a second factor to the authentication process typically leads to increase in costs for implementation and maintenance. Most hardware token-based systems are proprietary and charge an annual fee per user in the $50100 USD range. Deployment of hardware tokens is logistically challenging. Hardware tokens may get damaged or lost and issuance of tokens in large industries such as banking or even within large enterprises needs to be managed.

 

 

 

In addition to deployment costs, two-factor authentication often carries significant additional support costs. A 2008 survey of over 120 U.S. credit unions by the Credit Union Journal reported on the support costs associated with two-factor authentication. In their report, software certificates and software toolbar approaches were reported to have the highest support costs. Virtual tokens and geo-locations were reported to have the lowest support costs."

[noble_aloof]

idk if anyone remembers but for about 5 months my signature said: "i will not be returning to runescape until jagex implements an anti-hacking system"

 

 

 

i came back anyway, but (being hacked twice out of 20mil+ each time) i would be willing to pay $20+ on such a device. the bankspace would be a cool bonus, too.

 

 

 

and i don't know EXACTLY what that guy was talking about in the DevBlog, but i believe that updating the backend server like that would make doing a ROLLBACK much easier. when everyone was exclaiming "ROLLBACK!! ROLLBACK!" nobody thought for a minute and maybe thought that jagex simply doesn't have the resources to do such a rollback with today's player base.

[ValaraZ]

I'd pay 50 quid for that thingie.

 

 

 

WoW has it and you can also get it as an app to your cell phone so it works even better if you can do that.

 

 

 

Bank space *drools*

 

 

 

I'm currently at 6 spaces left in bank with all the skilling items, PvP and clan warring so more bank space would be in one word:

 

Awesome!

[Michaael]

I would probably wait a bit to buy one. Knowing Jagex and the bugs that come with their updates, this thing would probably erase your whole account or something :roll:

[noble_aloof]

I would probably wait a bit to buy one. Knowing Jagex and the bugs that come with their updates, this thing would probably erase your whole account or something :roll:

 

 

 

somebody didn't read the devblog :shame:

[Michaael]

Lol I did, but it seems like everything they try to do erupts in chaos these days

[ValaraZ]

^^ Heavily disagree with you there Michaael.

 

 

 

The updates are good it's the players who want sailing and old wilderness back that suck.

[Wachtwoord]

38% would definitely buy one if money wasn't an issue, because of that I think it's a good move. No one has to buy one and quite a lot of people really like the idea.