12-Apr-2010 - Dungeoneering Skill!

[NukeMarine]

As far as Dungeoneering being a mini-game: Jagex tells you in the development diaries it started out as a mini-game not even in the Runescape game. Yes it's a mini-game that's adapted to use the skill system, why is that even a complaint. Slayer is a mini-game that does the same thing.

It's a complaint because this shows every sign of being a recycling job, and not even one very well done at that. They had this game they didn't want to launch separately, and they didn't want to put in the effort it would have taken to make a real skill, so they shoehorned this thing into RS. If they had taken a few more months and done the job properly, it could have been really good. The whole thing smells of a half-assed effort.

Again, they ADMITTED, before it even got released that it was adapted. You're acting like it's some grand secret. It doesn't take much to tell there was a lot of effort put into this update. I'd also be a moron to claim there's nothing wrong with it either.

 

Why not head over to the Dungeoneering feedback and post lucid suggestions about improving the minigame/skill.

I have a nice wall here I could talk to instead -- more convenient and would yield the same results.

 

I don't mind them putting in a skill I don't like.. heck, there are many I don't like right now. But this isn't a skill at all, and anyone who approaches the matter honestly will see that. I doubt anyone could list even three major things that make this a skill if SC and BA are not.

Yeah, most of anything posted there is ignored. Hopefully with the forum shake-up they'll take some sage advice more frequently. You offer good advice at times, and your posts on the main forum a few years back brought a lot of attention from players. But yeah, it is brick wall most of the time.

 

Stealing Creation and Barbarian Assault could easily be adapted into the skill system. Heck, Mobilizing armies could have done this.The skill SYSTEM is not about skills in the real world. The skill system as designed by Jagex is an exponential leveling system utilizing the Skinner box (leveling brings awards, however it takes more effort to level each time). Looking at the effort put into Dungeoneering, I think they adapted the system in a very nice and enjoyable way.

 

Yeah, hopefully they find ways to integrate it into other areas of the game.

 

PS: The only skill I consider a failure thus far (outside of firemaking) is Hunting. There's so much potential to that skill that's been wasted. Now it's just used for Chinchompas and occasional implings.

[Myweponsg00d]

Lmao wow.

 

I dont have the time to read all of that right this second, but after class I am gonna sit down with a glass of brandy and laugh at how big of a "new one" you just ripped into these idiots who are making their dislike of the skill to be some type of "fact".

 

The fact is they dont like the skill, but they are too afraid to just not like Runescape so their brain invents these crazy rationalities as to why the skill is somehow objectively wrong.

[Louisc111]

Lmao wow.

 

I dont have the time to read all of that right this second, but after class I am gonna sit down with a glass of brandy and laugh at how big of a "new one" you just ripped into these idiots who are making their dislike of the skill to be some type of "fact".

 

The fact is they dont like the skill, but they are too afraid to just not like Runescape so their brain invents these crazy rationalities as to why the skill is somehow objectively wrong.

 

Yeah sorry. I'm stuck at home with a sick kid (don't worry, he'll get better) so my tolerance level might be a weeeeeeeeeensy bit lower than normal. I am also cursed with SIWOTI* syndrome, I just thought a disagreement might be needed.

 

*Someone is wrong on the internet.

 

The internet: it's serious, people. ;-)

[Zepheras]

Yeah, I know, TL;DR.

 

This. Well, Qeltar should read it, since it's directed at him.

 

To anyone saying that there would be more dungeons the size of Daemonheim in other areas to explore, that's unlikely. The whole skill is built upon the lore surrounding this one area. You'll probably see the remaining levels added to the game, quests with Dungeoneering level requirement, or expanded areas in other older dungeons requring Dungeoneering level X to enter. First two are almost 100%, the last is a little silly. Within Daemonheim, your skill of obtaining resources (with new design) and combat abilities with equipment made from these same resources is tested, but out of Daemonheim, people are using Bandos and Veracs and Sara brews, and I'm sure that their 'dungeoneering' skill is pretty good prior to the introduction of this skill.

 

The name Dungeoneering also implies that no, you won't see a hundred level Armadyl theme tower either. Great way to limit future oppotunities along with a crappy abbreviated name.

 

Yeah, hopefully they find ways to integrate it into other areas of the game.

 

You won't find the level of integration other skills provide, where applicable. It's not a resouce gathering skill to supply a secondary skill. It's not a skill where you change the way you explore dungeons. It's not a skill that supplies the market with tradeable commodities, even if it's exhaustible ones. The only classification it can go to is Character Development skill, such as Agility. You opened so many doors, explored so many levels, killed so many monsters and you tell me that it's just to develop your avatar's character?

[Rapono]

 

 

The name Dungeoneering also implies that no, you won't see a hundred level Armadyl theme tower either. Great way to limit future oppotunities along with a crappy abbreviated name.

 

 

 

next skiil towereering?

[qeltar]

It isn't idiotic at all.

It is both idiotic and punitive.

 

It would be one thing to have a room I can't get into. It's quite another to have 2/3 of the floor blocked off because the room I can't get into has two keys in it that I need for the rest of the floor. That just happened to me, and I'm sorry, but it's just poor design.

 

It is meant as a party skill.

Sorry, I must have missed that. Where did Jagex say this skill was meant only for parties?

 

This. Well, Qeltar should read it, since it's directed at him.

Well, he's not going to. I've already invested quite a bit of time in discussing this today, and I'm sure not wasting a whole lot more of it slogging through that pomous, pedantic wall of gibberish. I do appreciate it, though, when someone make me look concise by comparison. ;)

[Louisc111]

[sNIP]

This. Well, Qeltar should read it, since it's directed at him.

Well, he's not going to. I've already invested quite a bit of time in discussing this today, and I'm sure not wasting a whole lot more of it slogging through that pomous, pedantic wall of gibberish. I do appreciate it, though, when someone make me look concise by comparison. ;)

 

Translation: I can't understand it. I can't refute it. Therefore I will belittle it.

 

Cowardice noted.

[Esper_Jones]

So, if the majority of the design flaws are fixed, this skill would be pretty decent. No?

It would be a nice minigame, yes. It's not a skill if the only reason anyone can come up with for why this is one and SC is not is that "Jagex sez so".

 

Because SC is Player-vs-Player? Because SC doesn't force you to play all skills? Because SC doesn't have any way of ranking you?

[qeltar]

Translation: I can't understand it. I can't refute it. Therefore I will belittle it.

 

Cowardice noted.

It's not cowardice, it's simply a decision that spending an hour properly responding to your overly verbose post is not worth my time. Anyone who knows me knows I hardly shy away from an argument, but when the other party doesn't even make an effort to make concise, well-thought-out points, it's not worh the bother. Nobody read your post, and they wouldn't read an equally lengthy reply; thus, the only reason to write it would be to convince you, and sorry pal, you're just not that important. ;)

[Louisc111]

[sNIP].... and sorry pal, you're just not that important. ;)

 

Whoa whoa whoa! Are you calling my mummy a liar? ;-)

[canadiansmurf]

this is the first skill in RS that actually requires some skill to train.

 

Technically that isn't that true.

 

Some doors can't be accessed if your skill isn't high enough like 104 rc. :blink:

 

But you can always finish the dungeon to reach the boss and complete the floor.

 

Who cares if you miss a small percentage of bonus exp?

 

 

 

I'm doing this skill on a new pure with no skills who has levelled a little bit along the way because of shared exp.

 

 

 

However dung doesn't require skills it just requires you to combat melle or range.

 

 

I can rc mind runes if needed for the final boss. I can cook fish I buy from the smuggler. That's about all the skill that is required and only if I am soloing a floor.

[Zepheras]

This. Well, Qeltar should read it, since it's directed at him.

Well, he's not going to. I've already invested quite a bit of time in discussing this today, and I'm sure not wasting a whole lot more of it slogging through that pomous, pedantic wall of gibberish. I do appreciate it, though, when someone make me look concise by comparison. ;)

 

 

You should at least acknowledge the fact that some of the points you raised are fallacious though. Intrinsic VS extrinsic motivation and the prestige system. It's complicated, but good. The guy who designed it should get a raise.

[Louisc111]

this is the first skill in RS that actually requires some skill to train.

 

Technically that isn't that true.

 

Some doors can't be accessed if your skill isn't high enough like 104 rc. :blink:

 

But you can always finish the dungeon to reach the boss and complete the floor.

 

Who cares if you miss a small percentage of bonus exp?

 

 

 

I'm doing this skill on a new pure with no skills who has levelled a little bit along the way because of shared exp.

 

 

 

However dung doesn't require skills it just requires you to combat melle or range.

 

 

I can rc mind runes if needed for the final boss. I can cook fish I buy from the smuggler. That's about all the skill that is required and only if I am soloing a floor.

 

I meant that it's slightly more than a relatively mindless point and click skill like firemaking (for example). Which should have been clear from the context.

[Omali]

Translation: I can't understand it. I can't refute it. Therefore I will belittle it.

 

Cowardice noted.

It's not cowardice, it's simply a decision that spending an hour properly responding to your overly verbose post is not worth my time. Anyone who knows me knows I hardly shy away from an argument, but when the other party doesn't even make an effort to make concise, well-thought-out points, it's not worh the bother. Nobody read your post, and they wouldn't read an equally lengthy reply; thus, the only reason to write it would be to convince you, and sorry pal, you're just not that important. ;)

 

Translation: I'm trolling, and thanks to 96 pages of this thread, most of TIF knows it by now, so your main recourse is to simply disregard every point people make, be it small or large, and focus on calling them asshats and condescend to them by just saying their points are bad without backing up your statements, and that they're not important enough anyway. As Cyanide and Happiness would put it, you're essentially Rubber Arm Man.

 

 

Sorry Tim Burton, marketably your movies may do well but intellectually you haven't had an original thought since Edward Scissorhands.

[Golvellius]

It isn't idiotic at all.

It is both idiotic and punitive.

 

It would be one thing to have a room I can't get into. It's quite another to have 2/3 of the floor blocked off because the room I can't get into has two keys in it that I need for the rest of the floor. That just happened to me, and I'm sorry, but it's just poor design.

 

It is meant as a party skill.

Sorry, I must have missed that. Where did Jagex say this skill was meant only for parties?

 

This. Well, Qeltar should read it, since it's directed at him.

Well, he's not going to. I've already invested quite a bit of time in discussing this today, and I'm sure not wasting a whole lot more of it slogging through that pomous, pedantic wall of gibberish. I do appreciate it, though, when someone make me look concise by comparison. ;)

96 pages later and your still crying like its day one.

You need to pick and choose your spot.

Like when I see a thread on the greatness of farming, I usually post something "entertaining" on like page 2 or something. ;)

 

Honestly though, you should love the skill.

It gave purpose to utterly useless, fluff-filled skills like summoning.

Heck the summons can even fight a little.

That Sachem Bloodrager can certainly outfight a steel trashcan any day.

[qeltar]

I'm trolling

Well, I give you points for honesty, anyway.

[Omali]

I'm trolling

Well, I give you points for honesty, anyway.

 

I see what you did there.

[Dragonlordjl]

I'm trolling

Well, I give you points for honesty, anyway.

Ever since the "fire cape debacle", your debating skills have really taken a plunge into the abyss. It seems like everything you post is a simple hand-wave without any facts of your own to back up your stance. All hand-waving and ad infinitum fallacies, with a bit of personal attacks mixed in.

 

And yes, you are trolling. You're more eloquent and clever about it than almost anybody else, but it is still trolling. You're bashing the skill with opinionated reasoning and when someone tries to refute your points, you hand-wave them away with some empty excuse like "you're not important enough for me to waste my precious time responding to." If all our opinions are so worthless, why are you still reading these forums?

[qeltar]

This. Well, Qeltar should read it, since it's directed at him.

Well, he's not going to. I've already invested quite a bit of time in discussing this today, and I'm sure not wasting a whole lot more of it slogging through that pomous, pedantic wall of gibberish. I do appreciate it, though, when someone make me look concise by comparison. ;)

 

 

You should at least acknowledge the fact that some of the points you raised are fallacious though. Intrinsic VS extrinsic motivation and the prestige system. It's complicated, but good. The guy who designed it should get a raise.

The prestige system is good for what it was designed for, I agree. I just don't think it was such a great thing to have that particular objective.

 

I also agree with you that it is, to some extent, how you look at it. Even changing how they presented this would have helped. For example, they could have made it more like getting a bonus for doing N floors in a row without repeating. Or put new things that only spawn on the lower floors under certain conditions. It feels like too much stick and not enough carrot right now.

 

All hand-waving and ad infinitum fallacies, with a bit of personal attacks mixed in.

I think a simple review of Omali's post above will show who is making the personal attacks.

 

And yes, you are trolling.

The mere fact of being dogpiled doesn't make the person in the minority a troll. I post what I do because I believe it, not to get a rise out of a bunch of obnoxious jerks -- that's just a side benefit. ;)

[Peronix]

This. Well, Qeltar should read it, since it's directed at him.

Well, he's not going to. I've already invested quite a bit of time in discussing this today, and I'm sure not wasting a whole lot more of it slogging through that pomous, pedantic wall of gibberish. I do appreciate it, though, when someone make me look concise by comparison. ;)

 

He's not the only only one who is pompous... Or pedantic for that matter, ie you seem overly concerned that this is a "skill" rather than a minigame. He was merely pointing out that not all skills nessecarily have to fit your strict definitions, because, this is a GAME, after all.

 

Also, about the name, "dungeon" can and has been loosely applied to a wide variety of situations. It dosen't nessecarily imply an underground area, or rule out things like towers, for example.

[Zepheras]

Also, about the name, "dungeon" can and has been loosely applied to a wide variety of situations. It dosen't nessecarily imply an underground area, or rule out things like towers, for example.

 

They can use something like raiding, or adventuring. The apparent reason was to have "a name that described the essence of the skill". But when weighing against the fact that people use abbreviations most of the time and this is a good excuse to say "what's your dung skill?", I think forgoing the whole idea about the essence of the skill and use something common would have been wiser.

 

Most importantly, I think they're against naming it as raiding since it would be yet another reason for players to scream "RS IS LIEK W0W!" :?

[Jehosaphat]

Frankly, I don't give a rip towards this whole debate. I got a new piece of content, and I'm gonna enjoy it. Kthxbye.

[Esper_Jones]

Translation: I can't understand it. I can't refute it. Therefore I will belittle it.

 

Cowardice noted.

It's not cowardice, it's simply a decision that spending an hour properly responding to your overly verbose post is not worth my time. Anyone who knows me knows I hardly shy away from an argument, but when the other party doesn't even make an effort to make concise, well-thought-out points, it's not worh the bother. Nobody read your post, and they wouldn't read an equally lengthy reply; thus, the only reason to write it would be to convince you, and sorry pal, you're just not that important. ;)

 

I read it, and anyone who's been following the "argument" with you has as well. I'm sure Louis is not the only one who would read your response. You very frequently pick one minor nitpick in a long post and ignore the rest. I'd like to see you respond to a complete argument for once.

[Omali]

Frankly, I don't give a rip towards this whole debate. I got a new piece of content, and I'm gonna enjoy it. Kthxbye.

 

Look pie, I don't have hours to write up a response to your post, but I'm just going to say: You've pretty much summed up why this entire debate is moot.

[canadiansmurf]

Frankly, I don't give a rip towards this whole debate. I got a new piece of content, and I'm gonna enjoy it. Kthxbye.

 

 

It is content geared for F2P more it can't be that great.

 

Now if they only surprise us with one more real new member skill this year it would be nice. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

It is a mini-game and it's pure marketing to call it a skill. It isn't a coincidence that mini-games were renamed activities.

Hopefully the next skill in the year 1013 won't be a minigame so they can be forgiven.

 

 

Personally I think they are just bored with creating Runescape.

They should create a new game, oh wait they are.

 

 

 

I sort of agree with Queltar.

They are insulting RS players by tacking on a flimsy veneer of a skill to a minigame.

But really who cares?

If you like the new content use it, if not avoid it.

 

There are a bunch of skills I never level.

 

You won't like every piece of content.

 

 

And jagex will never admit that this is a minigame even though it is.