12-Apr-2010 - Dungeoneering Skill!

[Myweponsg00d]

 

Hey thats not a bad idea, the concept is pretty good.

 

One thing about the token system, you know what it reminds me of? The emblem of frost in WoW, you raid dungeons and you get the emblems from bosses aka completeing a dungeon. You then trade the emblems for gear/potions/food/etc, it seems to be working pretty well and nobody complained about how unrealistic these are. Why is this a big problem here? I mean it would be pretty simple for Jagex to say "the items you collected through this dungeons have to be destoryed, they formed these crystals and if you give them to that guy over there, he will make something awesome for you." Would it be better then?

 

Is raiding dungeon a class or a skill in WoW? :rolleyes:

 

If there's some sort of lore to support it, I'm alright with it. Some people on RSOF suggested about collecting tokens/crystals/gift vouchers (last one's mine) in the dungeon itself and exchanging for the items. But right now, tokens are strongly linked to your XP, and the items themselves are in no way linked to the Dungeoneer lore as well. Do you get a coal bag made out of behemoth skin? Or a scroll used by the geomancer? Or is the tome of frost used by Lexicus Runewright?

 

Is the abyssal whip used by abby demons? Do we even see whips anywhere? Is the name "abyssal" just good enough?

 

Why do tormented demons drop dragon claws? Are their claws made from dragon?

 

Why can we make overload potions now? I demand Jagex gives us an explanation for where overload potions fall into Runescape history!

 

Where do the penance items come from? We have a fighter torso...does this mean that we are actually wearing the skin of a penance fighter?

 

Why does the kalphite queen drop a lava staff? Is there lava in her lair?

 

Why can we hunt chinchompas? Where did they come from?

 

What is the deal with a dragonfire shield? Some dragons just decide to drop their visage? Why? How does a draconic visage fit into the lore of runescape?

[Peronix]

OK, I gotta agree with Qeltar and others on one point:

 

 

That REALLY pissed me off. Notice I got 0% bonus. That's because I didn't have the level to fix a collapsing doorframe, and no monsters dropped an herb needed to make an artisan potion. Apparently the key needed for the other bonus room was in the room that I couldn't get to. So I got a 0% bonus because I absolutely could not access any of the bonus rooms. I don't have a problem with not getting a bonus, what I DO have a problem with is that my prestige is normally around 3200, and I was getting well over 2500 exp. It's absolute bullcrap that these supposed "bonuses" affect prestige as well. Nearly cut my exp in half. And it wasn't even my fault.

 

Also, notice that my prestige is around 2000 when it should normally be around 3200. 2000 * 1.13 = 2260. So apparently the bonus room bonus affects base prestige a HELL of a lot more than it affects your final exp calculation...

[Zepheras]

 

Hey thats not a bad idea, the concept is pretty good.

 

One thing about the token system, you know what it reminds me of? The emblem of frost in WoW, you raid dungeons and you get the emblems from bosses aka completeing a dungeon. You then trade the emblems for gear/potions/food/etc, it seems to be working pretty well and nobody complained about how unrealistic these are. Why is this a big problem here? I mean it would be pretty simple for Jagex to say "the items you collected through this dungeons have to be destoryed, they formed these crystals and if you give them to that guy over there, he will make something awesome for you." Would it be better then?

 

Is raiding dungeon a class or a skill in WoW? :rolleyes:

 

If there's some sort of lore to support it, I'm alright with it. Some people on RSOF suggested about collecting tokens/crystals/gift vouchers (last one's mine) in the dungeon itself and exchanging for the items. But right now, tokens are strongly linked to your XP, and the items themselves are in no way linked to the Dungeoneer lore as well. Do you get a coal bag made out of behemoth skin? Or a scroll used by the geomancer? Or is the tome of frost used by Lexicus Runewright?

 

Is the abyssal whip used by abby demons? Do we even see whips anywhere? Is the name "abyssal" just good enough?

 

Why do tormented demons drop dragon claws? Are their claws made from dragon?

 

Why can we make overload potions now? I demand Jagex gives us an explanation for where overload potions fall into Runescape history!

 

Where do the penance items come from? We have a fighter torso...does this mean that we are actually wearing the skin of a penance fighter?

 

Why does the kalphite queen drop a lava staff? Is there lava in her lair?

 

Why can we hunt chinchompas? Where did they come from?

 

What is the deal with a dragonfire shield? Some dragons just decide to drop their visage? Why? How does a draconic visage fit into the lore of runescape?

 

If I have it my way, many of those questions you posted would have been answered. The general understanding for loot of a monster is, they have it in their possession from another player who was killed by the same monster. If you want to talk about dragon claws, then we can talk about dragon platebody as well. Why go through the trouble of designing 3 parts, which happens to be parts of the body of the tormented demon, and a dragon forge to fuse them together? Why have the four godswords named after gods, from a dungeon where a battle is clearly taking place, when they can just be just "Godsword 1 to 4"? Why can't it be just a complete godsword instead of parts of it?

 

Trust me, where time permits Jagex would have added more lore, and design certain game mechanics to better reflect the story of RuneScape as well.

[Romy]

This point is probably nothing new, but I feel like brining it up anyway.

 

 

Dungeoneering may not completely resemble a genuine skill, but it's fun despite that. As a game, that's all I request when I play Runescape.

[greenmelf]

OK, I gotta agree with Qeltar and others on one point:

 

 

That REALLY pissed me off. Notice I got 0% bonus. That's because I didn't have the level to fix a collapsing doorframe, and no monsters dropped an herb needed to make an artisan potion. Apparently the key needed for the other bonus room was in the room that I couldn't get to. So I got a 0% bonus because I absolutely could not access any of the bonus rooms. I don't have a problem with not getting a bonus, what I DO have a problem with is that my prestige is normally around 3200, and I was getting well over 2500 exp. It's absolute bullcrap that these supposed "bonuses" affect prestige as well. Nearly cut my exp in half. And it wasn't even my fault.

 

Also, notice that my prestige is around 2000 when it should normally be around 3200. 2000 * 1.13 = 2260. So apparently the bonus room bonus affects base prestige a HELL of a lot more than it affects your final exp calculation...

I posted some of my exp related finding in the f2p topic, didn't post it here because I'm not sure how it translates to p2p or f2p over 90 combat though. But, anyways;

+0% from bonus rooms gaves 53.6% of base floor exp AND prestige exp.

+4% from bonus rooms gaves 68.8% of base floor exp AND prestige exp.

+8% from bonus rooms gaves 84.3% of base floor exp AND prestige exp.

+11% from bonus rooms gaves 96.7% of base floor exp AND prestige exp.

Note: I'm 106 combat f2p and I haven't got data from other values yet.

[Myweponsg00d]

OK, I gotta agree with Qeltar and others on one point:

 

 

That REALLY pissed me off. Notice I got 0% bonus. That's because I didn't have the level to fix a collapsing doorframe, and no monsters dropped an herb needed to make an artisan potion. Apparently the key needed for the other bonus room was in the room that I couldn't get to. So I got a 0% bonus because I absolutely could not access any of the bonus rooms. I don't have a problem with not getting a bonus, what I DO have a problem with is that my prestige is normally around 3200, and I was getting well over 2500 exp. It's absolute bullcrap that these supposed "bonuses" affect prestige as well. Nearly cut my exp in half. And it wasn't even my fault.

 

Also, notice that my prestige is around 2000 when it should normally be around 3200. 2000 * 1.13 = 2260. So apparently the bonus room bonus affects base prestige a HELL of a lot more than it affects your final exp calculation...

 

What is your argument? People who take the time to train up all their skills should not be rewarded with better exp?

[Guthorm]

This point is probably nothing new, but I feel like brining it up anyway.

 

 

Dungeoneering may not completely resemble a genuine skill, but it's fun despite that. As a game, that's all I request when I play Runescape.

 

You know I just noticed you worship the flying spaghetti monster, I thought that died years ago.

 

@myweapon

 

His point is valid, he cannot access the room because the dungeon refuse to generate the herb for him to make to boost his skill. So yeh he does have the skill requirement, but the dungeon does not give him the supplies. So yes I think Jagex may have to work around this one, maybe add herb or herb seeds to the shop.

[greenmelf]

OK, I gotta agree with Qeltar and others on one point:

 

 

That REALLY pissed me off. Notice I got 0% bonus. That's because I didn't have the level to fix a collapsing doorframe, and no monsters dropped an herb needed to make an artisan potion. Apparently the key needed for the other bonus room was in the room that I couldn't get to. So I got a 0% bonus because I absolutely could not access any of the bonus rooms. I don't have a problem with not getting a bonus, what I DO have a problem with is that my prestige is normally around 3200, and I was getting well over 2500 exp. It's absolute bullcrap that these supposed "bonuses" affect prestige as well. Nearly cut my exp in half. And it wasn't even my fault.

 

Also, notice that my prestige is around 2000 when it should normally be around 3200. 2000 * 1.13 = 2260. So apparently the bonus room bonus affects base prestige a HELL of a lot more than it affects your final exp calculation...

 

What is your argument? People who take the time to train up all their skills should not be rewarded with better exp?

That the addition of a second multiplier based on bonus rooms is both, mentioned nowhere and extremely overdone.

[Hajutze]

This point is probably nothing new, but I feel like brining it up anyway.

Dungeoneering may not completely resemble a genuine skill, but it's fun despite that. As a game, that's all I request when I play Runescape.

You know I just noticed you worship the flying spaghetti monster, I thought that died years ago.

It's hard for a religion to .. just die. Look at christianity =/

[Myweponsg00d]

 

That the addition of a second multiplier based on bonus rooms is both, mentioned nowhere and extremely overdone.

 

I don't really see how you think it is a "second" multiplier. Please elaborate more clearly?

[Peronix]

OK, I gotta agree with Qeltar and others on one point:

 

That REALLY pissed me off. Notice I got 0% bonus. That's because I didn't have the level to fix a collapsing doorframe, and no monsters dropped an herb needed to make an artisan potion. Apparently the key needed for the other bonus room was in the room that I couldn't get to. So I got a 0% bonus because I absolutely could not access any of the bonus rooms. I don't have a problem with not getting a bonus, what I DO have a problem with is that my prestige is normally around 3200, and I was getting well over 2500 exp. It's absolute bullcrap that these supposed "bonuses" affect prestige as well. Nearly cut my exp in half. And it wasn't even my fault.

 

Also, notice that my prestige is around 2000 when it should normally be around 3200. 2000 * 1.13 = 2260. So apparently the bonus room bonus affects base prestige a HELL of a lot more than it affects your final exp calculation...

 

What is your argument? People who take the time to train up all their skills should not be rewarded with better exp?

 

I'm 80 construction. It asked for 83 construction. If I had been 99 construction, it would have probably asked me to be 102 construction. I've had a few runecrafting doors be 105+, and even a mining door 102 even though I'm only 81... the intent here is obviously that you should have to make a potion to boost your level, but monsters don't always drop the right herbs/seeds, and bandit doesn't sell them either.

 

That aside, I wouldn't mind getting 13% less exp for not doing the bonus rooms. But 50% is BEYOND ridiculous. And that's in ADDITION to not getting the 13% extra. And as mentioned the fact that your BASE exp and prestige are affected by the BONUSES, is mentioned nowhere.

[Soma2035]

That's not necessarily true. I'm 71 RC. My team mates at the time of this incident were 65, 5X, and 5X. We encountered an obstacle that required 104 RC.

 

The required path is set so that your party can complete it without the use of potions. Of the optional rooms, some will have easily met requirements, some will have requirements that potions will reach, and some will have requirements that potions will not reach. I don't think it specifically adds 'x" to your level for the optional rooms.

[Peronix]

That's not necessarily true. I'm 71 RC. My team mates at the time of this incident were 65, 5X, and 5X. We encountered an obstacle that required 104 RC.

 

The required path is set so that your party can complete it without the use of potions. Of the optional rooms, some will have easily met requirements, some will have requirements that potions will reach, and some will have requirements that potions will not reach. I don't think it specifically adds 'x" to your level for the optional rooms.

 

OK, but your base exp shouldn't be raped to hell just because you couldn't do that room, or in my case by extension, couldn't do other rooms because the room you couldn't do contained the key to access the other rooms.

[Bladewing]

You didn't get bonus xp. You didn't lose any xp.

 

Quit being greedy.

[Peronix]

You didn't get bonus xp. You didn't lose any xp.

 

Quit being greedy.

 

We're not talking 13% here, we're talking about over 50%. That's not greed.

[greenmelf]

 

That the addition of a second multiplier based on bonus rooms is both, mentioned nowhere and extremely overdone.

 

I don't really see how you think it is a "second" multiplier. Please elaborate more clearly?

There is a plainly displayed "Bonus Rooms" multiplier which gives bonus exp from +0% to +13% exp.

And there is a second hidden, never mentioned multiplier based directly on bonus rooms which multiples both the base floor and base prestige exp shown at the very top by 53.6% for zero bonus rooms to 100% (true base) for all bonus rooms.

[Myweponsg00d]

On a similar note, does anyone know what Level Mod even means? It never seems to be anything other than 10% no matter what you do.

[Romy]

This point is probably nothing new, but I feel like brining it up anyway.

 

 

Dungeoneering may not completely resemble a genuine skill, but it's fun despite that. As a game, that's all I request when I play Runescape.

 

You know I just noticed you worship the flying spaghetti monster, I thought that died years ago.

 

Mostly as a counterpoint to religion in general, but yeah.

 

 

To avoid this post being completely off-topic- Does anyone think Sailing would be a better alternative :P?

 

 

P.S.

1,500th post, lol.

[Peronix]

On a similar note, does anyone know what Level Mod even means? It never seems to be anything other than 10% no matter what you do.

 

I think it relates to how many monsters you kill. Though, sometimes I have left relatively few monsters and gotten around 7%, and other times I have left quite a few and it has been 10%. Not exactly sure how it works.

[Romy]

On a similar note, does anyone know what Level Mod even means? It never seems to be anything other than 10% no matter what you do.

 

The number of monsters still left in the dungeon when you completed it. It can go as high as 10%, nothing higher.

[Zepheras]

On a similar note, does anyone know what Level Mod even means? It never seems to be anything other than 10% no matter what you do.

 

I know for a fact that it's affected by the number of monster you left behind. I don't think you need to kill everything, but I got 0% on a test where I don't kill anything where possible.

 

 

On the bonus room issue, someone has a table somewhere comparing just the floor and prestige XP, between 0% and 13% room bonus. Not only do you not get a bonus for failing to unlock bonus rooms, your floor and prestige XP gets slashed in half as well.

[Soma2035]

That's not necessarily true. I'm 71 RC. My team mates at the time of this incident were 65, 5X, and 5X. We encountered an obstacle that required 104 RC.

 

The required path is set so that your party can complete it without the use of potions. Of the optional rooms, some will have easily met requirements, some will have requirements that potions will reach, and some will have requirements that potions will not reach. I don't think it specifically adds 'x" to your level for the optional rooms.

 

OK, but your base exp shouldn't be raped to hell just because you couldn't do that room, or in my case by extension, couldn't do other rooms because the room you couldn't do contained the key to access the other rooms.

 

I don't know how true this is either. How big of a dungeon was this? I'm currently 57 Dungeoneering, playing almost exclusively with 3 or more people and the largest dungeons available. The closest thing we've had to your situation was having maybe 4-5% bonus, and having no way to continue... or so we thought. We were rather worried that we hadn't had enough time to gather food and supplies, so we were combing the dungeon for fishing spots and the like when one of us found a key buried under a pile of loot. Lo and behold, we finished with 10%.

 

I don't believe I've ever been trapped into finishing a dungeon with under 9%, so I don't think it's a common enough occurrence to be a game-breaker.

 

Then again, with the notable exception of Dungeoneering, I have 70+ all skills, and one of my team mates has 80+ in many of the skills in which I'm weaker at. Maybe this is a bigger problem for people with lower skills. But that's still fine IMO, because it's a bonus on your base XP. It's an extra that needs to be earned, and if you lack the other skills to earn it, I guess that's just how it's meant to work.

 

The real game-breakers, in my opinion, are glitched critical rooms. Key stuck behind an unbreakable, nonexistent rock. Statute being pushed off the mat and against the wall. Being able to accidentally trap yourself permanently in the barrel-pushing room (haven't actually done it, but at a glance, it's most certainly possible).

[Peronix]

Of course it's not game breaking like those things, but 56% reduction in exp for not opening bonus rooms is still excessive. It should defiantly take away your 13% bonus, but it shouldn't penalize your BASE exp. (it's not really a BASE amount otherwise, is it?) And of course the fact that this second multiplier is completely undocumented.

[Drakrono]

A lot of people have been saying that soloing gets you really bad exp, can someone elaborate? I've been soloing so far and I thought I was doing fine...

[Den]

ooo 100 pages in 2 weeks. Not bad at all. :P

 

Wonder if they will be fixing solo play tomorrow with the update.