12-Apr-2010 - Dungeoneering Skill!

[Youmu]

I hate that part... Even though I'd never use a medium dungeon on solo, it still sucks there isn't an option for that. Maybe there will be at higher floors/levels, but I'd be pissed if there wasn't.

You know that a solo dungeon for me already takes 10-15 minutes on small, right?

 

I think that's good enough already.

[Flyingjj]

And some of us would like to try a longer dungeon by ourselves, not caring how long it took, as we enjoy it.

[anonymouse_]

I just went in a large 5 man, 3 138s and 2 137s; took about an hour and I got 34k exp (F27). So the exp isn't so bad, and I only have 28 prestige.

[mario_sunny]

I just went with a 3 man team on floors 8 through 15, and holy GOD they were the best team I've ever had. They were all high level and knew how to beat every puzzle and every boss. Not only that, they didn't do stupid things like take 20 minutes to make the best armor when we were up against a level 127 boss that could be killed without eating a single piece of food (infact this happened on floor 10). The majority of the teams I join are full of players who either screw up horribly on the puzzles, damaging everyone, or are horrible at the bosses.

 

I gotta say too- the spear OWNS.

[Saru Inc]

And some of us would like to try a longer dungeon by ourselves, not caring how long it took, as we enjoy it.

 

 

YEP!

 

 

Also, I don't know if this is intentional, and thus will not receiving fixing; so many times theres little to no ore of value, or herbs I need for basic potions and it's quite aggravating.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I just went with a 3 man team on floors 8 through 15, and holy GOD they were the best team I've ever had. They were all high level and knew how to beat every puzzle and every boss. Not only that, they didn't do stupid things like take 20 minutes to make the best armor when we were up against a level 127 boss that could be killed without eating a single piece of food (infact this happened on floor 10). The majority of the teams I join are full of players who either screw up horribly on the puzzles, damaging everyone, or are horrible at the bosses.

 

I gotta say too- the spear OWNS.

 

I got a Katagon one myself. As much as I dislike the skill, the spears are the best all around weapon in it.

[qeltar]

I've always said the most damning thing I can think of it's simply not fun for people to do by themselves. Sure floors change and everything, but you're fighting the same things over and over again. Its mind numbing and tedious.

 

The other skills are too, but least you can AFK or switch windows to relieve yourself of some of the autonomy.

Sorry, but I can't agree with you there. You may not like the skill, but it is almost *objectively* less tedious than nearly all other skills in the game. There is much more variety, more ways you can play, solo and team options, different floor sizes, different bosses, different familiars to try out, and dynamic floor generation. It is absolutely beyond me how that could possibly be seen as more tedious than turning oneself into a monkey and running in circles for umpteen hours, or standing in front of a wall chopping ivy for days on end, or traveling back and forth between a bank and a runecrafting altar 10 million times.

 

I suppose the AFK argument is valid, but not all skills are AFKable. And this is still less tedious than the ones that are.

 

Also, there are different reasons why this skill and others can't be AFKed. I can't AFK agility because I have to click every 2 seconds. This I can't AFK because I actually have to think about what I'm doing.

 

I noticed that even though I usually watch Hulu or do other things like that to keep me occupied when training skills, I can't here. I find that I keep missing things in the show because I'm focused on what I'm doing. That's illustrative.

 

One of the most damning faults is that you can't do Dung in a lunch break. Once you go down in the hole, you are there for 45 minutes to an hour, if you are thorough and go to each room. I find myself going all over to the place to scrounge for strong antipoisons for Harlaak the Riftsplitter, or hides or any thing else. I literally make one pass through to see what's there, find the boss and decide whether to smith those ores into armor or arrowheads, etc. al.

 

Any of the true skills in the game, I can pop in for 20 to 30 minutes easy and hit a lick. Not so with Dung. This is yet another feature that makes it more akin to a diversion (a la Fight Caves) than a skill.

With more experience, you'll learn what you really need to do, and what you really don't. It's not necessary to make every piece of armor, or most potions, or most of the other things that you *can* make. Just to take the example you gave: you don't need antipoison potions for Har'Lakk the Riftsplitter.

 

I am a fairly casual raider and it usually takes me 15 to 25 minutes to do a floor solo. I'd prefer to be able to save progress in the middle, but this isn't bad -- longer than a Barrows run but I view them about the same way.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Yes, but due to the time it takes to do this skill, you'll do it many times over making it rather tedious. Also, it takes an hour at a time to train the thing Solo, you can't just hop in for a quick few minutes of training and that is also a big hindrance.

[qeltar]

Yes, but due to the time it takes to do this skill, you'll do it many times over making it rather tedious.

As opposed to Runecrafting or Agility?

 

Also, it takes an hour at a time to train the thing Solo, you can't just hop in for a quick few minutes of training and that is also a big hindrance.

Not true.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Yes, but due to the time it takes to do this skill, you'll do it many times over making it rather tedious.

As opposed to Runecrafting or Agility?

 

Also, it takes an hour at a time to train the thing Solo, you can't just hop in for a quick few minutes of training and that is also a big hindrance.

Not true.

 

Well, I find to do it Solo, a small dungeon, on level 6 complexity and going through all the rooms it takes me at least 45 minutes. I'm sure if I was going fast and skipping stuff I could trim it down to a half hour, but Soloing takes a while longer.

 

And I loathe Runecrafting. Agility I'm more hit or miss. They're older skills though so I don't have as high expections. Two years for this skill however? Oy vey.

[lolcakes]

Yes, but due to the time it takes to do this skill, you'll do it many times over making it rather tedious.

As opposed to Runecrafting or Agility?

 

Also, it takes an hour at a time to train the thing Solo, you can't just hop in for a quick few minutes of training and that is also a big hindrance.

Not true.

 

Well, I find to do it Solo, a small dungeon, on level 6 complexity and going through all the rooms it takes me at least 45 minutes. I'm sure if I was going fast and skipping stuff I could trim it down to a half hour, but Soloing takes a while longer.

 

And I loathe Runecrafting. Agility I'm more hit or miss. They're older skills though so I don't have as high expections. Two years for this skill however? Oy vey.

 

45 minutes on solo...? You're doin' it wrong. Takes me less than 20 minutes, almost every time. I go through all the doors, and I kill every monster (I even trap those dino's for decent hunter exp).

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

just to throw in a random question without makeing a threead for it, d'nearing is a non combat skill so why does it not give any shaterd heart parts? :geek:

[Bladewing]

Slayer is just as much a non-combat skill as dungeoneering. Slayer doesn't give rocks either.

[Zimbu]

just to throw in a random question without makeing a threead for it, d'nearing is a non combat skill so why does it not give any shaterd heart parts? :geek:

Three possibilities:

1.Dungeoneering is considered as a combat related skill like slayer

2.They haven't implemented shattered hearts yet and will do it when lamps and ToG start giving dung exp or whenever they have the time to.

3.The final award for shattered heart is somehow dungeoneering related.

[Zepheras]

 

 

In other words, Dungeoneering is a "skill/mini-game" that is enhanced by being high level in other skills. Likewise, having a high dungeoneering should benefit your other skills in the other dungeons around Runescape. Qeltar really hit the nail on the head with that one.

 

Which is exactly why so many people hate slayer, right? Oh wait. People love slayer. The only thing that makes you better at slayer is outside skills (combats) and the only thing a higher slayer level lets you do is more slayer.

 

Yeah. Its clear to me. Crystal clear. Nobody enjoys this type of a skill :unsure: :rolleyes:

 

I don't like Slayer that much during its initial stage where majority of the slayer specific monsters are found in a tower and dungeon, along with a mixture of non-slayer specific monster just to increase the variety. Of course, as time passes by more slayer specific monsters have been added in other parts of the areas, along with slayer rewards that helps slayer training as well as combat skills. You get runes for slayer dart, not fire surge. You get broad tipped bolts/arrows, not onyx tipped bolts. You unlock the slayer helm to help your tasks, not farming scrolls.

 

The average guy is going to say that they love slayer because it's profitable, which is like me saying I love dungeoneering because I get level 80 weapons out of it. I'll wait till the second batch of the update to see how the skill ties in with the rest of the world though.

 

 

You train mining by mining ores to get better ores, you train dungeoneering by accessing and completing floors to gain access deeper floors. But don't forget, the concept of mining and miners is a single entity, neither exists without the other. Yet exploring dungeons has been something players did for years. It's not as if Runescape was a flat piece of land, and the birth of this skill adds dungeons along with it, and requires you to talk to a NPC who says "Oh my, we've recently discovered some dungeons, and we need dungeoneers to explore these new lands", and then you start gaining some levels in the easier dungeons before going to the next, as some sort of survival ability skill.

 

Put it this way, the skill would make more sense if it's call Daemonheiming instead of Dungeoneering. Then players can accept the skill as gaining levels to unlock floors and bosses in Daemonheim.

 

Sacred Claying, Pest Controlling, Army Mobilising....

 

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose

By any other name would smell as sweet."

 

 

If names and categories aren't important, might as well call activities skills as well, if you're going to blur the lines differentiating them. They are fun, their rewards benefit other skills.

 

Which one makes sense to you? Coal bags and weapons and scrolls for new prayer, or these?

 

 

A real Dungeoneering skill could have easily been incorporated into real RS.

 

Level 9 - You learn how to enter the Lumbridge caves without a light source.

Level 17 - Gain a +5 Agility capability bonus on dungeon-based obstacles.

Level 23 - Slayer creatures in dungeons can still not be damaged without appropriate gear, but will no longer damage you if you attack them

Level 29 - Protection prayers used in dungeons drain prayer points 10% slower.

Level 35 - Increased chance of gem drops mining in underground areas.

Level 44 - You learn how to bypass the vines in the Brimhaven dungeon without needing an axe

...

Level 94 - Your expertise in Dungeoneering allows you to open the doors to Waterbirth Dungeon by yourself.

 

And so on. That's off the top of my head in five minutes. They couldn't have done something much better over the course of two years?

 

 

Awesome rewards, actually. But I have to ask about how that would help you become more experienced at the Dungeoneering skill. I thought the benefits had to be recursive as well, according to Qeltar's arguments.

 

You already are. You are a dungeoneer in any dungeon, and the innate abilities you've unlocked gives you an edge over other players who aren't. More of the abilites can be added to the list to take effect in Daemonheim as well.

[Noobzy]

45 minutes on solo...? You're doin' it wrong. Takes me less than 20 minutes, almost every time. I go through all the doors, and I kill every monster (I even trap those dino's for decent hunter exp).

I also face about 45 mins for solo dungeon. And I am only killing all beast, sporadically going back to trader (with tele and gatestones), and I will not smith, herb, or craft anything before I have seen which boss I will be fighting.

 

So, if I am doing it wrong, tell me your way? Puzzles and monsters killing alone, can't be done in under 15 mins on an average floor in my opinion. I recommend you actually time a solo dungeon yourself. You will be surprised that what seems 15 mins for you, in the real world might be 30 mins or more :wink:

[Toad]

5 man large seems to be primal every time for me, on the same player ratio eg 5:5 not 5:4, has anyone else noticed this?

[qeltar]

Well, I find to do it Solo, a small dungeon, on level 6 complexity and going through all the rooms it takes me at least 45 minutes. I'm sure if I was going fast and skipping stuff I could trim it down to a half hour, but Soloing takes a while longer.

Well, you *should* be skipping stuff. It all depends on what you're skipping and why.

 

You need to explore the entire dungeon. You *don't* need to mine every rock, fish every spot and hunt every mastyx. And you shouldn't, if XP is what you're after. Just like in any skill, really.

 

So you'd need to explain in more detail what you're doing for us to understand why it's taking you so long.

[pulli23]

Well, I find to do it Solo, a small dungeon, on level 6 complexity and going through all the rooms it takes me at least 45 minutes. I'm sure if I was going fast and skipping stuff I could trim it down to a half hour, but Soloing takes a while longer.

Well, you *should* be skipping stuff. It all depends on what you're skipping and why.

 

You need to explore the entire dungeon. You *don't* need to mine every rock, fish every spot and hunt every mastyx. And you shouldn't, if XP is what you're after. Just like in any skill, really.

 

So you'd need to explain in more detail what you're doing for us to understand why it's taking you so long.

Even beating compulsory monsters takes like 20-30 mins...

 

Really less than 15 minutes seems you have very much luck!

[D Jay99]

I usually beat small complexity 6 dungeons in 10-15 minutes (15 if I get lots of annoying monsters and puzzle rooms), 5 dungeons/h is perfectly possible. I get 110-115% for each dungeon and unlock all or all but 1 rooms. Only kill monsters under level 90 or something and don't bother with fishing/buying anything, the salve eels the monsters drop are almost always enough for the boss.

[lordkafei]

With more experience, you'll learn what you really need to do, and what you really don't. It's not necessary to make every piece of armor, or most potions, or most of the other things that you *can* make. Just to take the example you gave: you don't need antipoison potions for Har'Lakk the Riftsplitter.

 

I am a fairly casual raider and it usually takes me 15 to 25 minutes to do a floor solo. I'd prefer to be able to save progress in the middle, but this isn't bad -- longer than a Barrows run but I view them about the same way.

 

I've never killed him on the first effort without a strong antipoison (not the cheapies they sell in the shop). YMMV.

 

And I was also explicit in stating that I went through casing the rooms for resources, not making things willy-nilly. Sometimes, I smith armor. Sometimes, I stitch hides. Sometimes, I make pots. But I always go through to see who the boss is before I decide strategy.

 

just to throw in a random question without makeing a threead for it, d'nearing is a non combat skill so why does it not give any shaterd heart parts? :geek:

 

Regarding the skills we already get rocks for - because you can't take anything in or out of the hole except your ring.

Regarding why there aren't specific Dung rocks - well, the Statue precedes Dung by a few weeks so I don't see why they would go back and retrofit it to include a pair of Dung rocks.

[qeltar]

I've never killed him on the first effort without a strong antipoison (not the cheapies they sell in the shop). YMMV.

The trick is simply to move when he attacks, and take in plenty of food. Use the regular antis, but not every time you get poisoned, just when it adds up. Use enhancing prayers and a familiar to speed things up.

 

And I was also explicit in stating that I went through casing the rooms for resources, not making things willy-nilly. Sometimes, I smith armor. Sometimes, I stitch hides. Sometimes, I make pots. But I always go through to see who the boss is before I decide strategy.

If you have a good weapon and a plate bound, you rarely need to make anything else. If you are below level 50, it does take longer to smith something unless you get a good drop.

 

This minigame really does get better with experience. Give it time.

 

I timed a level 19 I just did and it came to 20:26. That's with all rooms explored and all monsters killed. I didn't get one of the really slow puzzles, but those are pretty infrequent, and I did have to run keys around a fair bit. The upper floors are faster.

[NukeMarine]

About the time to complete Solo: If it helps, draw or print out a largish 4x4 card with connecting squares for doors, mark resources and door requirements. Seems overkill to me, but can be useful if you get a layout with a lot of back and forth running. Hopefully Jagex creates an automap that'll post room resources and doors as you find them.

 

Like others, I go through the small on solo in about 15 to 20 minutes. The longest part is setting up for a boss that's mage or range specific (buying cloths and wood to make the armor/weapon).

 

In other words, Dungeoneering is a "skill/mini-game" that is enhanced by being high level in other skills. Likewise, having a high dungeoneering should benefit your other skills in the other dungeons around Runescape. Qeltar really hit the nail on the head with that one.

Which is exactly why so many people hate slayer, right? Oh wait. People love slayer. The only thing that makes you better at slayer is outside skills (combats) and the only thing a higher slayer level lets you do is more slayer.

 

Yeah. Its clear to me. Crystal clear. Nobody enjoys this type of a skill :unsure: :rolleyes:

 

Wow, you took my post, which in no way insinuated people hated Dungeoneering, then applied that strawman to slayer. Well played sir, well played. I'm fairly sure the tone of my posts toward Dungeoneering has been mainly positive. I will post constructive critique and defend them though.

 

It's true slayer and hunter and now Dungeoneering seem to be the least integrated skills in the rest of Runescape. At least dungeoneering has saving grace of integrating other skills (well, all the skills) into itself. What Qeltar points out is that this skill can be integrated into all the other dungeons of Runescape. What I added was that it'd be cool if a high level in dungeoneering can give you access to cooler ways to train or use other skills in other dungeons.

 

Think about Hunter, would it had been cool if you could use the hunter skill on all types of monsters throughout runescape and not just those at hunting grounds? Would anyone had loved a way to "trap" unicorns or hobgoblins or spiders getting useful secondaries for herblore or hides for crafting while using a non-combat skill? That's integrating the skill into the rest of Runescape. Plus, I don't think you need many other skills to help improve hunting so the rest of Runescape is not integrated well into Hunting.

[qeltar]

About the time to complete Solo: If it helps, draw or print out a largish 4x4 card with connecting squares for doors, mark resources and door requirements. Seems overkill to me, but can be useful if you get a layout with a lot of back and forth running. Hopefully Jagex creates an automap that'll post room resources and doors as you find them.

Excel is more useful for this, and better for the environment. ;) I only do it for medium or large maps, though.

 

Mixed feelings about automapping; it might make things a bit too easy. Maybe you could buy the ability with tokens. LOL

 

Wow, you took my post, which in no way insinuated people hated Dungeoneering, then applied that strawman to slayer. Well played sir, well played. I'm fairly sure the tone of my posts toward Dungeoneering has been mainly positive. I will post constructive critique and defend them though.

I gave up trying to discuss this with him about 30 pages ago. He seems to have more antipathy towards people who dislike Dungeoneering than those people do towards the skill itself. Not sure why he's so defensive about it.

 

It's also tiring that people point to the worst integrated past skills and think it's a good thing for Jagex to be using them as models for the future, instead of the skills that are well integrated, like Summoning.

[Youmu]

Is it possible to get green dragons in F2P? I read from RSWiki that it was possible, but I'm still not 100% sure.

 

If so, oh crap.

 

Oh and why did Jagex repeat the abandoned theme for the last 5 floors? They could have done something like a "molten" theme or something. Perhaps in batch 2?