An Elitist's View on Crashing

[TheAncient]

But this is real life and you are meeting them. They are real people, just because they are not right in front of you does not mean they are not human and not people. You should act the same with somebody across the world as you would with somebody 2 feet away. The only reason I can think of not doing so is that maybe somebody 2 feet away would smack you around the face. It boils down to anonymity of the internet.

 

So if I were a boot camp trainer, would I feel bad if one of my trainees had a mental breakdown because of me?

 

Social expectations depend situationally.

[stonewall337]

Sly, you keep using a straw man. No one has said its 100% always impossible to find an empty world, only that they aren't, or shouldn't be the ones to have to.

 

And Danz, I don't give a rats ass if you give me a warning over this, but you shouldn't be the one giving out warnings in a thread where you are so heavily against the people you are warning. A judge is expected to step out of a case if his bias could throw the outcome one way or the other. Neither you nor I are neutral in this topic. You should get another mod to look if you believe rules have been broken, instead of throwing your weight around.

 

Blade made a valid point, It wouldn't be a surprise if someone tried this. Heck, I know of people who PAY real life money for others to take them to GWD/etc. So what blade said wasn't spam, but something which could, conceivably, happen.

 

Especially considering things which are FAR more off topic, spammy, or just unneeded, are allowed, or at least not removed.

[Danqazmlp]

But this is real life and you are meeting them. They are real people, just because they are not right in front of you does not mean they are not human and not people. You should act the same with somebody across the world as you would with somebody 2 feet away. The only reason I can think of not doing so is that maybe somebody 2 feet away would smack you around the face. It boils down to anonymity of the internet.

 

So if I were a boot camp trainer, would I feel bad if one of my trainees had a mental breakdown because of me?

 

Social expectations depend situationally.

 

 

Erm, I would hope you would feel bad yes? But i don't quite get how that relates, please explain?

 

We are all on equal terms in this game. We all pay roughly the same, we all play for hopefully the same reasons (having fun, wasting time etc). We should all treat each other with basic respect we would if meeting another person on the street, as that is basically what we are doing.

[Obtaurian]

You completely ignored my rebuttal to your asinine suggestion by . . . offering the suggestion a second time. I think we're done here.

 

Indeed I didn't ignore it. You're simply arguing that because you don't think something is viable that it isn't an option, coming up with tons of excuses as to why you can't MH on a PvP world (the main reason being that you can die and lose your stuff). But this ignores the fact that those monsters that you like to hunt do exist on PvP worlds and that they're often empty. The fact that they exist and that they're empty means that you don't have to crash, provided you want to take the risk. But you don't want to do so. Of course, you not wanting to take the risk doesn't mean those monsters don't exist sans the crowds of people attacking them. I would say we could go at this all day, but since you've already decided that you won't, then we won't. Honestly. I hate repeating myself, I really do. But sometimes you just have to.

 

tl;dr

 

You don't have to crash, as it's not impossible to find an empty world ;)

 

But why would I risk upwards of 650 million and a chaotic weapon when I can risk far less by taking a world from someone else? Now we go back to efficiency. It is more efficient for me to crash a level 120 in Torag's than it is to risk losing an insane amount of money and time in a PVP world. It's not a viable option because it's completely unreasonable.

 

You're arguing that I have the ability to MH on a PVP world, therefore I should do so instead of crashing. Similarly, anyone who doesn't like being crashed can quit Runescape. It's a viable option amirite.

 

:rolleyes:

[Ryyy]

I'm a 138 player, with overloads and the top tier gear. Does this make me a crasher looking for fresh blood? No. It doesn't. What I don't get is why there's a population of high combat morons that NEED to crash. I'm able to find an empty world on a Friday night at GWD, DKs, or what have you, with ease. (This is my rant against high level crashers.)

 

What? I'll agree with Arma and Sara, but if you do Bandos, it's not easy to find spawns. Neither is finding 2 empty spawns for TD's. It's usually pretty easy for DK's to find a completely empty world, but I'm pretty intent on finding worlds with a specific number of people so that my spawns are timed right. So when I come across a world with the right number of people, if there's a solo mager in there, I'll probably crash him.

 

You kinda ignored my part about not liking bandos in the first place.

 

From what it seems like, you don't even bother to hop worlds a couple times (lets say 5 for an easy number) to find an empty DK world. True? Also, I'd like to know why exactly you can't bend your timing just by a little bit. Also, I'm curious; what's this magical population size you search for exactly? What style of DKing do you prefer as well? I never have to wait for DK spawns on a 1-1.1k pop world using my method of choice.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but, I think you're taking the stance that suggests that crashing the first world you find is more efficient than actually taking 5 minutes to hop/check 5-6 worlds per scout. I highly doubt that. The rate you would burn up supplies having to out-damage another person for an hour usually is higher than dropping DKs without bother for 55 minutes. -Ry

[1337_Byte]

Crashing isn't against the rules, so it's a part of the game. Deal with it.

[Cowman_133]

I have split off several posts from this topic. I am certainly not picking sides on this issue, but I am concerned with that fact that a moderator's ruling has been considered a joke.

 

It is never acceptable to argue with a moderator's ruling in public. Now this is for a couple of very good reasons. Firstly it will involve others who really have nothing to do with the matter at hand and just escalate the issue to the point that it got to now. Secondly you will always get farther with an issue if you take it up privately with the moderator in question, or if that doesn't help an administrator can be added to the conversation to assess the situation and give you a firm decision.

 

I think in this case the post at hand looks a lot like spamming, and you cannot fault a moderator for mistakenly considering a post as spam when it is borderline like that. I've decided to leave it for now, but I am asking that the matter be dropped.

 

If there is a problem or a concern with this, please contact me directly via PM.

 

Cowman

[Saru Inc]

Wow, I have no response to "why can't you just use a PVP world? You don't HAVE to crash!" That's the most idiotic, asinine, naive, shortsighted post I've read on this thread yet. Why someone would choose to potentially risk several hundreds of millions worth of gear (and for slower spawns, no less) just to give 1337cowkiller his shot at a hilt is beyond me. Is it a nice thing to do? Oh, absolutely -- that's a Christ-like act of kindness right there, but it's 120% [developmentally delayed]ed.

 

 

I support this post for president, 2012.

 

Edit, to make this post unspam.

 

 

Crashing is like smoking weed for me, I personally don't do it, but I understand why people do, and I would vote for it to pass if it was up to me.

[Zaaps1]

Nar 4 prez

 

Actually, I agree that successful crashers have earned a right. It's a competitive game, if less successful players don't get to make any money, then, maybe you should become more competitive and train up more?

[Jehosaphat]

To whomever is spewing crap about bosshunting on a PvP world:

 

Have fun bosshunting while risking a crapload without extremes or overloads. Maybe I'll come kill you someday - it'll be much easier with Graardor hitting you too.

[Obtaurian]

To whomever is spewing crap about bosshunting on a PvP world:

 

Have fun bosshunting while risking a crapload without extremes or overloads. Maybe I'll come kill you someday - it'll be much easier with Graardor hitting you too.

 

You know, in all of that back-and-forth about the PVP worlds suggestion, I never once thought about that. You can't use extremes or overloads in a PVP world.

 

Kudos to you for reminding me (and hopefully everyone else).

[Logdotzip]

Seems the biggest argument those against crashing when needed keep bringing up is "Until you've tried all 100+ servers looking for an empty world then you're in the wrong"

 

 

To that, I lol.

 

 

 

I half expect one of you to say "Well maybe one world got free since you checked it last, better start the World Hopping over again"

[Blutters]

Seems the biggest argument those against crashing when needed keep bringing up is "Until you've tried all 100+ servers looking for an empty world then you're in the wrong"

 

 

To that, I lol.

 

 

 

I half expect one of you to say "Well maybe one world got free since you checked it last, better start the World Hopping over again"

Nah. I'd say 5 is reasonable.

At TD if you use two spawns and you passed a world with only one in use, if you had to crash a different world, you could tell them the other world.

[Troacctid]

Actually, I agree that successful crashers have earned a right. It's a competitive game, if less successful players don't get to make any money, then, maybe you should become more competitive and train up more?

Of course. High levels mean you have the ability to fight for spawns. Personally, I fail to see the elitism in acknowledging and embracing that success in competition is a function of your levels.

[Sly_Wizard]

Sly, you keep using a straw man. No one has said its 100% always impossible to find an empty world, only that they aren't, or shouldn't be the ones to have to.

 

Someone hasn't been keeping up. Go back and re-read what I was responding to, which was Dragonlordjl's assertion that at many bosses there are no empty spots and that you have to crash.

 

But why would I risk upwards of 650 million and a chaotic weapon when I can risk far less by taking a world from someone else? Now we go back to efficiency. It is more efficient for me to crash a level 120 in Torag's than it is to risk losing an insane amount of money and time in a PVP world. It's not a viable option because it's completely unreasonable.

 

So is your argument about risk or efficiency? I ask, because one would think that if your argument was about efficiency, then you'd argue that the reason you don't MH on a PvP world is because you can't use extremes/overloads on them, which would mean fewer kills per hour which would make you less efficient. But instead, you focus only on the cost aspect, which doesn't really matter any. I mean, how does killing, say, a boss monster on a non-PvP server wearing 650M worth of gear make you less efficient then killing a boss monster on a PvP server wearing 650M worth of gear? Do divines work differently on a PvP server? Do chaotic weapons hit less often on a PvP server? Does logging onto a PvP cause the stats on your armor to degrade? And so on and so forth. The bottom line is that your argument really isn't one of efficiency, but rather convenience. That is, you do what's more convenient for you, and what's more convenient for you is to run someone else off then it is to world hop in search of an empty world or log on to a world which carries heavier penalties if you were to die. Everything else beyond that fact is simply you trying to rationalize crashing.

 

You're arguing that I have the ability to MH on a PVP world, therefore I should do so instead of crashing. Similarly, anyone who doesn't like being crashed can quit Runescape. It's a viable option amirite.

 

:rolleyes:

 

One problem. In my example, I'm getting rid of the perpetrator (The crasher), while your example gets rid of the victim (The crashed).

[Troacctid]

But why would I risk upwards of 650 million and a chaotic weapon when I can risk far less by taking a world from someone else? Now we go back to efficiency. It is more efficient for me to crash a level 120 in Torag's than it is to risk losing an insane amount of money and time in a PVP world. It's not a viable option because it's completely unreasonable.

 

So is your argument about risk or efficiency? I ask, because one would think that if your argument was about efficiency, then you'd argue that the reason you don't MH on a PvP world is because you can't use extremes/overloads on them, which would mean fewer kills per hour which would make you less efficient. But instead, you focus only on the cost aspect, which doesn't really matter any. I mean, how does killing, say, a boss monster on a non-PvP server wearing 650M worth of gear make you less efficient then killing a boss monster on a PvP server wearing 650M worth of gear? Do divines work differently on a PvP server? Do chaotic weapons hit less often on a PvP server? Does logging onto a PvP cause the stats on your armor to degrade? And so on and so forth. The bottom line is that your argument really isn't one of efficiency, but rather convenience. That is, you do what's more convenient for you, and what's more convenient for you is to run someone else off then it is to world hop in search of an empty world or log on to a world which carries heavier penalties if you were to die. Everything else beyond that fact is simply you trying to rationalize crashing.

Risk can factor into efficiency. If you figure you die an average of once every ~300 hours and you lose 650m every time you die, suddenly your average profit drops by 2m gp/hr. If instead you only risk 10m, that drops to closer to 30k gp/hr. Big difference.

 

You're arguing that I have the ability to MH on a PVP world, therefore I should do so instead of crashing. Similarly, anyone who doesn't like being crashed can quit Runescape. It's a viable option amirite.

 

:rolleyes:

 

One problem. In my example, I'm getting rid of the perpetrator (The crasher), while your example gets rid of the victim (The crashed).

Who's to say the crasher isn't the victim of overcrowded worlds? Why isn't it just the responsibility of the weaker player to suck it up and back down from a fight he can't win? A lower-level player who sticks around after getting crashed to annoy the crasher sounds to me like more of a griefer than a victim.

[Bladewing]

Why don't the low leveled players go to PvP? No one ever crashes there.

[Obtaurian]

So is your argument about risk or efficiency? I ask, because one would think that if your argument was about efficiency, then you'd argue that the reason you don't MH on a PvP world is because you can't use extremes/overloads on them, which would mean fewer kills per hour which would make you less efficient.

 

My argument is based on both efficiency and risk (yes, I can use both). It's more efficient (higher population, use of extremes/overloads) and less risky (much less risk, no chance of being PK'd) to use normal worlds.

 

But instead, you focus only on the cost aspect, which doesn't really matter any. I mean, how does killing, say, a boss monster on a non-PvP server wearing 650M worth of gear make you less efficient then killing a boss monster on a PvP server wearing 650M worth of gear? Do divines work differently on a PvP server? Do chaotic weapons hit less often on a PvP server? Does logging onto a PvP cause the stats on your armor to degrade? And so on and so forth.

 

Wow, you really dropped the ball there. PVP worlds, believe it or not, have this little catch where you can either keep one item or no items depending on which type of world you use. I shouldn't have to point out the obvious flaw in your argument based on this information.

 

The bottom line is that your argument really isn't one of efficiency, but rather convenience.

 

Wrong.

 

 

That is, you do what's more convenient for you, and what's more convenient for you is to run someone else off then it is to world hop in search of an empty world or log on to a

world which carries heavier penalties if you were to die.

 

You're absolutely right. It's much more convenient. It's also more efficient.

 

 

Everything else beyond that fact is simply you trying to rationalize crashing.

 

Trying? I'd say it's this argument was over a long time ago. I can't wait for your next post, though. This is a lot of fun.

 

One problem. In my example, I'm getting rid of the perpetrator (The crasher), while your example gets rid of the victim (The crashed).

 

Exactly. If you're going to give me unreasonable ultimatums, I'm going to give you the same.

[stonewall337]

In other words, I don't HAVE to crash, but you WILL lose if i do. So I don't know why you are trying to convince me of anything.

[Sly_Wizard]

Risk can factor into efficiency. If you figure you die an average of once every ~300 hours and you lose 650m every time you die, suddenly your average profit drops by 2m gp/hr. If instead you only risk 10m, that drops to closer to 30k gp/hr. Big difference.

 

Even assuming that you die once every three-hundred hours, which is once every 12.5 days game time, you don't effect your efficiency any unless the knowledge that you're going to die once every 12.5 hours causes you to kill more slowly then you would otherwise. Barring that there's no effect. Your efficiency would only become affected if you died faster then you could replace the items you lose, which leads me to another question: How often do you die when doing GWD?

 

Who's to say the crasher isn't the victim of overcrowded worlds? Why isn't it just the responsibility of the weaker player to suck it up and back down from a fight he can't win? A lower-level player who sticks around after getting crashed to annoy the crasher sounds to me like more of a griefer than a victim.

 

Because crashing if active while being crashed is passive. To make of someone's analogy earlier, if one Kid A pushes another Kid B off the swing because Kid A is bigger then Kid B, then should Kid B go and lift weights until he's bigger then Kid A (Or Kid C or D or E or F or...) and return the favor?

 

My argument is based on both efficiency and risk (yes, I can use both). It's more efficient (higher population, use of extremes/overloads) and less risky (much less risk, no chance of being PK'd) to use normal worlds.

 

No, your argument is based on risk, more specifically convenience to yourself. Notice how the thought that you couldn't use extremes/overloads didn't even cross your mind until someone pointed it out to you (I wish he hadn't, because I wanted to see how long you were going to argue without mentioning them)? You see, even assuming you could use extremes/overloads in PvP, you still wouldn't MH on those worlds. I can guarantee you even if you gained a 10% damage boost versus all monsters on a PvP world that you still wouldn't boss hunt on them, even though it would be more efficient to do so. Why? Because if you died you'd have to go through the trouble of reacquiring all your lost items, which you don't want to do (much like you don't want to world hop to find an empty world).

 

Also, the chance of you being PK'ed at GWD on a PvP server is, like, 0.000001%. Seriously.

 

Wow, you really dropped the ball there. PVP worlds, believe it or not, have this little catch where you can either keep one item or no items depending on which type of world you use. I shouldn't have to point out the obvious flaw in your argument based on this information.

 

Yeah, no kidding. That doesn't really address why certain weapons or armor on a PvP server would suddenly block fewer attacks, hit less often or hit less harder, which is what you were burdened with explaining.

 

Wrong.

 

Not wrong.

 

You're absolutely right. It's much more convenient. It's also more efficient.

 

See my first response.

 

Trying? I'd say it's this argument was over a long time ago. I can't wait for your next post, though. This is a lot of fun.

 

Yes, it really was, what with people avoiding answering questions and all.

 

Exactly. If you're going to give me unreasonable ultimatums, I'm going to give you the same.

 

Except my advice wasn't unreasonable. I've gone to PvP servers to train plenty of times wearing 50M+, and yes I've even been attacked once (Luckily he was a noob and tried to TB me lol), and I'm fairly sure that I've seen people PK in stuff worth twice that much.

[Jesus_Status]

I read a few pages back that this is like big corporations moving into towns and forcing smaller stores out. This is exactly the same and it is ok for the same reason, lets use wal-mart as an example they didn't just over-night become this giant business they started exactly the same as every other company but they worked hard and eventualy expanded and became huge, don't repremand them for their success. If a small business has to shut down because a wal-mart moved in then it's their own fault they should have run their business better. This is the same as Crashing High leveled player who put in hard work and dedication should be aloud to compete with the lower levels and not restricted because they are better then most people. When a low level decided he wants to go solo bandos he knows that he might get crashed and he'll just have to deal with it. And to be perfectly honest if you are able to be crashed you shouldn't be at GWD, there are better ways to make money. Until Jagex releases instanced monster competition over these monster will continue so get used to it and stop expecting to be treated as equals when you've put in 50 days and we've put in hundreds.

[Sly_Wizard]

If a small business has to shut down because a wal-mart moved in then it's their own fault they should have run their business better.

 

Slightly off-topic, but how should they have run their business?

[stonewall337]

If a small business has to shut down because a wal-mart moved in then it's their own fault they should have run their business better.

 

Slightly off-topic, but how should they have run their business?

Numerous ways, should have been specialized, ready for that eventuality, had more of a market niche, etc.

 

and for PvP, then I can't use overloads of x pots. Not gona happen.

 

BTW: My risking 650m at a boss that if I dc/lag can kill me (divine) is a LOT higher then your 50m risk to skill, where only way you die is lag and a pker.

[thisisnotforyou]

Wait- you mean I have to like, woodcut for money to train my skills? Bummer.

[TheAncient]

I'm a 138 player, with overloads and the top tier gear. Does this make me a crasher looking for fresh blood? No. It doesn't. What I don't get is why there's a population of high combat morons that NEED to crash. I'm able to find an empty world on a Friday night at GWD, DKs, or what have you, with ease. (This is my rant against high level crashers.)

 

What? I'll agree with Arma and Sara, but if you do Bandos, it's not easy to find spawns. Neither is finding 2 empty spawns for TD's. It's usually pretty easy for DK's to find a completely empty world, but I'm pretty intent on finding worlds with a specific number of people so that my spawns are timed right. So when I come across a world with the right number of people, if there's a solo mager in there, I'll probably crash him.

 

You kinda ignored my part about not liking bandos in the first place.

 

From what it seems like, you don't even bother to hop worlds a couple times (lets say 5 for an easy number) to find an empty DK world. True? Also, I'd like to know why exactly you can't bend your timing just by a little bit. Also, I'm curious; what's this magical population size you search for exactly? What style of DKing do you prefer as well? I never have to wait for DK spawns on a 1-1.1k pop world using my method of choice.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but, I think you're taking the stance that suggests that crashing the first world you find is more efficient than actually taking 5 minutes to hop/check 5-6 worlds per scout. I highly doubt that. The rate you would burn up supplies having to out-damage another person for an hour usually is higher than dropping DKs without bother for 55 minutes. -Ry

 

5 Minutes on a trip is a huge deal... lol. I am not willing to spend 5 minutes to hop for worlds. I would rather crash (which takes no additional time at all).

 

And for Rex I get a 80-100% win rate against anyone not using Arcstream + OVL + SoL / is not on task. So I don't really end up wasting supplies - in fact, I save runes. It's so much easier to crash someone at Rex than any other place simply because I do significantly more damage than anyone else.

 

I do hop when I find a hybrider or tribrider. In those cases it's not worth it to crash. Kill order gets messed up, you don't get all of the kills, and it generally gets really messy when someone dies because of Prime.

 

I use ~1000 pop worlds as well. My kill order is Prime (til 10% HP) - Rex - KO Prime - Supreme - Rex, but sometimes only Rex and Supreme, depending on how much of my special I have left for DDS specs. On worlds below 900 I almost always have to wait for one of the Rex spawns for 10-15 seconds; on worlds above 1200 you run into issues where Rex or Prime spawns too fast. Waiting for Rex spawns every cycle for 10-15 seconds * 30 cycles per trip = 300-450 seconds wasted (approximate); Prime spawning too early makes you eat a lot of extra food because you have to pray mage instead of range when killing supreme.

 

In addition, during peak hours most worlds that don't lag are 1200+; a 1000 world is pretty hard to find.

 

Why are you so insistent on making me seem malicious? I really am just crashing because it's the most effective thing to do in a lot of situations.

 

Because crashing if active while being crashed is passive. To make of someone's analogy earlier, if one Kid A pushes another Kid B off the swing because Kid A is bigger then Kid B, then should Kid B go and lift weights until he's bigger then Kid A (Or Kid C or D or E or F or...) and return the favor?

 

Again - we aren't crashing to be malicious. There's a difference between beating someone to satisfy a desire to be superior, and beating someone because they have something you want.