An Elitist's View on Crashing

[Owned_Nex]

There are different levels of boss. Top tier is Corp, TDs, Frosties. Then theres GWD. Lower down is Barrows, Green Dragons, etc. Lastly skills. Its disillusion to think you can skip to the top.

frosties arent a boss@@@ they just make lots of gp/hr and they arent that crowded but after the dungeoneering update they probably will be more crowded but most people that have the willingness to camp frosties are so high lvled anyway

 

tds are harder than gwd i agree lol i support an instanced boss like a tormented demon.

 

TDs are about as much of a "boss" as frostys. Probably less.

 

I have to disagree about instancing. In games like WoW, money is, almost superfluous. Gear has to be earned. You can't just go buy everything. That way, makign hard bosses and introducing gear is not much of a problem. By instancing RS bosses, the GE will get saturated by boss drops. This will drive the prices crashing down on our heads. Making things uncrashable is making this game a single player game.

[Peronix]

What's wrong with instancing things? The whole problem is lack of spawns, no? Of course people at the top of the totem pole don't want instancing, because they don't have to worry about being crashed. While people lower on said pole would gladly sacrifice some profit for a little security.

 

Instancing couldn't possibly make this any more of a single player game. Jagex's [developmentally delayed]ed game mechanics make it so. There's no way to tank, no true healing magic, no buffs, nothing. Combine this with the fact that most people don't give a [cabbage] about anyone other than themselves, and you have a single player game already. And besides, if the only player interaction is crashing, I'd be glad to take it out of the equation.

[Sly_Wizard]

I've been playing on and off since 2002. Isn't it fantastic to put yourself on morally superior ground to everyone who opposes you on the premise that you've been around for longer?

 

No. I point out the fact that you don't know what you're talking about, because if you would have been around for as long as I have then you would know that most of the things you say are simply untrue, specifically the part about false premises when I stated that boss monsters weren't intended to be solo'ed.

 

Even in RSC people found ways around all that to solo the KBD.

 

In RSC, there was no multi-combat. In RSC, the KBD had no multi-target attacks. Multi-combat was created when RS2 came out. For someone who has been playing "off-and-on" since 2002, you really should know this.

 

Considering I remember being online the morning of the KQ update, I can say that tweaking the KQ's difficulty had more to do with how easy it was to not take damage (in a team OR solo) rather than to specifically target solo players.

 

Incorrect.

 

 

I'm not sure where you're going with the next two examples as Rex can still be easily safespotted and every GWD boss can be soloed for over an hour.

 

They can be easily solo'ed now because there have been numerous updates making it easier to solo (i.e., summoning, extremes/overloads, better weapons, etc.). Unless you want to play a game which doesn't update at all, it's inevitable that as more material is released, existing monsters become easier and easier to kill solo. That doesn't mean that said monsters were designed to be solo'ed, though. That's where you're committing a fallacy.

 

The saradomin boss room shape was first abused (and for months) by a team, not by solo players.

 

Notice I didn't say anything about the Sara room specifically. I said God Wars. When God Wars first came out, the rooms were configured in a way in which, upon entering the boss' chamber, you could stand in the door frame, and by doing so you generally would only be attacked by the main boss monster. This made killing, say, Kree a breeze-- especially for solo players. Jagex went and fixed that specifically because they didn't want people to be able to solo.

 

Point is, with the current game engine it would be very easy for Jagex to create a boss monsters that cannot even be attempted solo.

 

No, it's not, unless you're going to create instanced bosses, which so many people seem to be against because it would devalue the drops that the crashers crash for (I guess the irony is lost upon some of them).

 

However, they prefer to deal with the difficulty of the monster to adjust the difficulty for players trying to solo bosses. Even now the Corporeal Beast more or less requires the special attack of an elite piece of gear (the Statius Warhammer) to attempt to solo.

 

If Jagex really wanted the Corporeal Beast to remain unsoloable, they would simply create a game mechanic where you can't enter the boss lair except with a team or nerf the special of the warhammer.

 

If Jagex wanted to make the Corp Beast unsoloable, or at least make it exponentially harder to do so, they would have added a stomp attack or something.

 

...Oh wait.

 

If every boss was meant to be killed only with a team, then every world would have lootshare. You can speculate all you want about Jagex's intentions before Lootshare but it's really not relevant to the OP's point.

 

That, quite frankly, is terrible logic. I didn't know that killing a monster in a team was predicated on LS/CS being activated.

 

1) Take your cheap shot but there's a world of difference between mining a rock someone else is mining when there are a bunch nearby and forcing players soloing one TD at a time in the multi-kill spot to move to the single-kill spot. You seem to be taking the highest ground possible for the most vile crashing techniques and spreading it to everything in the game.

 

I've realized that some people have a propensity to only read what they want to read and flatly ignore the rest. Please notice how I said that the only competition that exists between players is because one player makes it his or her duty to compete against another player, not because Jagex has made the two compete against each other or even because both parties want to compete against each other. Not that I haven't pointed this out to you before, but your argument is basically that because a monster exists in multi-, that Jagex intended players to compete for that monster. This is not only wrong, but it's something you simply cannot prove (because it's untrue).

 

2) The point in the first part recycled. I addressed it above; solo play has been allowed and encouraged. Any claim that it hasn't is pure speculation until Jagex specifically creates a game mechanic to create instanced bosses for teams.

 

No one said anything about solo-play not being encouraged. What I said, and have said about a bajillion times only to have you ignore it a bajillion more times, is that boss monsters were created to be killed via a team.

[Dragondan_Ro]

Crashing, well. I kind of wish there was some kind of points system. So that crashers could lose points, giving them negative effects. Like, every player has 100 points. Crasher has 0 because everyone gives him - in points. And because he has 0 points, he gets less LSP when in a team.

 

Then again, it would be so abused if you could do that. Noobs would come and say "GIEV ME SPT OR i MAK U 0 PNTS LEFT"

 

But yeah, like someone said here. There are so many crashers, that if there's a poor newb trying to solo bandos, or a team of newbs, someone will come crashing.

 

Personally, if I was an "Elite" and saw a team of newbs, I'd join them rather than the average "elite" team. That way, I could at least help 1 elite crasher came.

 

And if it was solo, and I couldn't find a spot, I'd go to the world with the most newby person, wait until he has to restock, or wait until some crasher comes, then crash the crasher.

 

Why do that? I don't think it's bad at all to crash a crasher. If he can't tolerate being crashed, then he shouldn't crash.

 

Though, I'm rarely bossing, and far from elite. At best, I could maybe get a pair of dragon claws, with void gear, and an extreme set.

[ghjkl]

Crashing, well. I kind of wish there was some kind of points system. So that crashers could lose points, giving them negative effects. Like, every player has 100 points. Crasher has 0 because everyone gives him - in points. And because he has 0 points, he gets less LSP when in a team.

 

Then again, it would be so abused if you could do that. Noobs would come and say "GIEV ME SPT OR i MAK U 0 PNTS LEFT"

 

But yeah, like someone said here. There are so many crashers, that if there's a poor newb trying to solo bandos, or a team of newbs, someone will come crashing.

 

Personally, if I was an "Elite" and saw a team of newbs, I'd join them rather than the average "elite" team. That way, I could at least help 1 elite crasher came.

 

And if it was solo, and I couldn't find a spot, I'd go to the world with the most newby person, wait until he has to restock, or wait until some crasher comes, then crash the crasher.

 

Why do that? I don't think it's bad at all to crash a crasher. If he can't tolerate being crashed, then he shouldn't crash.

 

Though, I'm rarely bossing, and far from elite. At best, I could maybe get a pair of dragon claws, with void gear, and an extreme set.

So you would purposely shoot yourself in the foot so some noobs that you don't know and will never see again can be happy?

[Obtaurian]

And if it was solo, and I couldn't find a spot, I'd go to the world with the most newby person, wait until he has to restock, or wait until some crasher comes, then crash the crasher.

 

Why do that? I don't think it's bad at all to crash a crasher. If he can't tolerate being crashed, then he shouldn't crash.

 

I would think that people who crash realize that they, too, can be crashed. :rolleyes: BTW, people who crash typically have the means to prevent crashing, and maxed players with maxed gear tend not to crash each other, so . . . I guess that leaves you to crashing lower level crashers? Let me know if they exist.

[Owned_Nex]

What's wrong with instancing things? The whole problem is lack of spawns, no? Of course people at the top of the totem pole don't want instancing, because they don't have to worry about being crashed. While people lower on said pole would gladly sacrifice some profit for a little security.

 

Instancing couldn't possibly make this any more of a single player game. Jagex's [developmentally delayed]ed game mechanics make it so. There's no way to tank, no true healing magic, no buffs, nothing. Combine this with the fact that most people don't give a [cabbage] about anyone other than themselves, and you have a single player game already. And besides, if the only player interaction is crashing, I'd be glad to take it out of the equation.

 

This is the thing, however. Unlike games like WoW, this simply lets people amass money. This isn't a problem in WoW because boss mechanics don't allow under qualified people to defeat bosses. In Runescape all person needs is some prayer potions and some rocktails. This would simply allow lower levelled players to start getting these GWD items, crashing the market on those and inflating the buyable skills. If everybody can make crazy amounts of money, then why do something like collect herbs. This will force the market on boss drops to crash, and raw goods to skyrocket to a point where you will need to be almost completely self sufficient.

[Mr_Mad_Nick]

every player has their method of playing,and yes spots are crowded often,and u may have to result in crashing,wut can u do?

 

i'd personally hate it if u crashed me,but hey,its a game,no need to get all pissy

[Guy]

Because in that scenario, I'm just being rude

TBH you're being rude anyway. You can't judge someone solely on their levels.

 

If someone is at a spot, you should just leave them to it and hop/go to a different spot. I like to think that people are courteous to each other, whether they be higher or lower leveled.

That's naive. At many bosses, there ARE no empty spots. You HAVE to crash if you want a world.

I have to say, I've not got a lot of experience at bosses, more slayer spots.

[stonewall337]

Danz, Real life=//= Online. the Internet just pretends to be a community, unlike real life. Why do you think so many comments on internet newspapers are so much more vulgar and spam filled then letters to the editor. In game, I act differently then in real life. In game, I've earned the right to be competitive.

[Bladewing]

[hide=Why rules and mores governing real life do not apply to the internet]

You can log off the internet.

 

You cannot log off real life.[/hide]

[Dragonlordjl]

[hide=Why rules and mores governing real life do not apply to the internet]

You can log off the internet.

 

You cannot log off real life.[/hide]

Sure you can. It's called becoming an hero. :thumbup:

[No_Foo]

I don't feel anyone earns or deserves the right to crash.

 

However, people earn the ability to crash, and with so many people at competitive spots, crashing will happen. I've been crashed but I've also crashed others. It's sad but it happens. Usually I will world hop a few times before immediately crashing, though. I do understand what he's saying even though I may not agree with all of it.

[Zaps]

[hide=Why rules and mores governing real life do not apply to the internet]

You can log off the internet.

 

You cannot log off real life.[/hide]

Yes you can, it is called death. :thumbup:

[stonewall337]

[hide=Why rules and mores governing real life do not apply to the internet]

You can log off the internet.

 

You cannot log off real life.[/hide]

Yes you can, it is called death. :thumbup:

But can you log back in?

[aspeeder]

[hide=Why rules and mores governing real life do not apply to the internet]

You can log off the internet.

 

You cannot log off real life.[/hide]

Yes you can, it is called death. :thumbup:

But can you log back in?

Too many server issues.

[stonewall337]

[hide=Why rules and mores governing real life do not apply to the internet]

You can log off the internet.

 

You cannot log off real life.[/hide]

Yes you can, it is called death. :thumbup:

But can you log back in?

Too many server issues.

 

This quote is full of win, adding some much needed humor to an otherwise rather serious, and heated (Rightfully so) thread.

 

I am Ray William Johnson, and I approve this message.

[jettrider]

Sly Wizard -

 

This is becoming impossible because we are accusing each other of using straw man arguments. Clearly we can't state what we think in a way that makes the other understand the point of view. I could echo your version of the call "read my post!" by asking you to quote the paragraph where I stated counterarguments to some of the things you said.

 

Since this is a discussion about the morals of an already commonplace and controversial practice it was bound to get to this point, where counterattacks to what has been posted constitute entire posts and the core issues are being ignored. As much as I would love to respond to the individual points raised, it would only lead to further searching for holes in my memory from years past and arguing what they mean today.

 

You're free to think whatever you like about my last post (which did have two inaccuracies) and about what I've tried to say, but I don't think I've done a very good job of addressing the key point. Much of that has to do with the fact that the only response has been to the tidbits. Well, count me out.

[stonewall337]

In other words, what is proper in RuneScape is as subjective as in real life. I personally would consider myself as being rude if I didn't hold open a door for a lady, but I understand why others don't.

 

I can't judge others. Some crash to be [wagon], although I don't believe the majority do. Personally, I use 2 TD spawns. Its easier for me to make you leave the middle TD and move over one so that we can both kill then for me too keep hopping, same as crashing solo DKS'ers on a LS world with a team.

[stonewall337]

After a weekend of thought, I know view crashing like this: We have 1 and a half baths in our house. I needed to shower, my sisters needed to brush their teeth and get ready for bed. Instead of waiting for an hour for them to finish whatever girls do before bed, I simply "crashed" them (Not flaming, trolling, or calling noobs) and had them switch the 15 steps to our other bathroom. It probably took them about the same amount of time as it takes someone else to hop.

[tortilliachp]

"crashing" is a term loaded with stigma used by those who don't like to compete for resources. Any healthy market (economy) favors he who helps himself.

 

if you can't compete / don't want to compete / don't enjoy competition, you are very welcome to participate in activities where you don't need to compete.

 

If you still choose to participate in activities of which competition are an integral component for your sake, and others' : please don't forget that no one likes a complainer :)

[Sephy_]

After a weekend of thought, I know view crashing like this: We have 1 and a half baths in our house. I needed to shower, my sisters needed to brush their teeth and get ready for bed. Instead of waiting for an hour for them to finish whatever girls do before bed, I simply "crashed" them (Not flaming, trolling, or calling noobs) and had them switch the 15 steps to our other bathroom. It probably took them about the same amount of time as it takes someone else to hop.

Dats why you get chaotic toothbrush and extreme mouthwash so no one crashes you when in the bathroom.

 

I have personally never seen anything bad about crashing, unless you do it with insults (except if provoked by the players getting crashed.) You obviously have put more effort into this game (in combat aspects) it doesnt make you deserve the spot any more than I do but this is a competitive game and the best man always wins. I don't usually have the levels to crash anyone solo (maybe some cute level 70 dmed guys trying to hit the jackpot at kbd) but when I do, I will. :thumbup:

[GuidesForScapers]

I'll agree SLIGHTLY, but you deserve to be dragged off your computer, stabbed and shot if you are Solo crashing lower players at something like Bandos. They have to go to a lootshare world for them to split it, but when some arrogant [bleep] decideds to crash them instead of using a world that ISN'T designed for lootsharing, you're a total [bleep] and you should be shot.

 

I might seem agressive but this happens too much, your not elite, you just have more money to splurge then the rest of us on skills that cost too much to raise.

 

By what right do you have claim to a spot?

 

To answer the question, non its a free spot for anyone to join in.

 

Seriously the only animosity towards crashers that I would agree with would be if you owned the spot, which you dont. Therefor them investing more time and money should give them the chance for more profit. (this is coming from an average leveled noob that they could crash even if ive already taken a 3rd of its health before they got there)

It annoys me when people do this. You have a somewhat valid point, but because you have convinced yourself that you are 100% right, you are overlooking a lot.

 

I think what Dark Aura was saying, is that anyone who is soloing has a choice of ANY world. Yet they would intentionally go to a world designed for teaming and splitting loot, just because they can.

 

It is totally pointless to choose a lootshare world, but they do it anyway just to make lower levels leave. Any person that does that is pathetic, and i would agree with Dark in saying the world would be a better place without them.

 

I know it is a little extreme to say that, but i feel it is a good representation of what someone is truly like when they are given power and, to quote muggiwhplar, freedom of consequences. If anyone were to act like that in any real life situations, they would get beaten repeatedly. Without a doubt.

[stonewall337]

I'll agree SLIGHTLY, but you deserve to be dragged off your computer, stabbed and shot if you are Solo crashing lower players at something like Bandos. They have to go to a lootshare world for them to split it, but when some arrogant [bleep] decideds to crash them instead of using a world that ISN'T designed for lootsharing, you're a total [bleep] and you should be shot.

 

I might seem agressive but this happens too much, your not elite, you just have more money to splurge then the rest of us on skills that cost too much to raise.

 

By what right do you have claim to a spot?

 

To answer the question, non its a free spot for anyone to join in.

 

Seriously the only animosity towards crashers that I would agree with would be if you owned the spot, which you dont. Therefor them investing more time and money should give them the chance for more profit. (this is coming from an average leveled noob that they could crash even if ive already taken a 3rd of its health before they got there)

It annoys me when people do this. You have a somewhat valid point, but because you have convinced yourself that you are 100% right, you are overlooking a lot.

 

I think what Dark Aura was saying, is that anyone who is soloing has a choice of ANY world. Yet they would intentionally go to a world designed for teaming and splitting loot, just because they can.

 

It is totally pointless to choose a lootshare world, but they do it anyway just to make lower levels leave. Any person that does that is pathetic, and i would agree with Dark in saying the world would be a better place without them.

 

I know it is a little extreme to say that, but i feel it is a good representation of what someone is truly like when they are given power and, to quote muggiwhplar, freedom of consequences. If anyone were to act like that in any real life situations, they would get beaten repeatedly. Without a doubt.

 

Read what I said, I do it. I "crash" the bathroom on occasion, and sometimes I get crashed.

[GuidesForScapers]

It is easier for a single player to hop worlds than for a team that is unexpectedly forced.