An Elitist's View on Crashing

[Cassynder]

@OP, so basically you are saying because you have no life, and train your skills more, we should worship you?

Nice life.

 

It's ironic, then, that you're being a much bigger ass than the OP.

 

because if you're an ass that means you have no life.

 

If playing rs more means you have less of a life, why not quit. That way no one will crash you and you have more of a life.

 

That is in no way related to what I was talking about, sorry.

[Rosanante1]

So let me get this straight. Because you train harder and longer than me, put in more hours than me, are more experienced and tougher than me, you can kick me off the bench press I'm using when I'm at the gym. I don't think so boy! :twisted:

[Danqazmlp]

As I've said before in this thread, the "solution" to crashing is to have a larger selection of bosses. Even a chaotic spear would take a few players away from Bandos, TDs, or DKs for a little while. We just need to have more to do.

 

I still say that instanced bosses would be much better. As I have said before, the money Mh'ing can make is incredibly disproportional to non MH'ing methods. This is due to various reasons, but one of the main reasons is the incredibly large price of many items. When some people have to spend hours cutting a tree for logs worth 300gp, somebody else can get a drop worth 70m They may have put in more effort, but the proportion is nowhere near even. They haven't put in 300x more effort by far. Instancing boss monsters would allow many more to access the higher profits, lower the profits allowing non MH'ing to become a viable way of playing the game and would just be more fun for the majority. I see no negatives.

[rthensley]

I've been thinking about the logic behind the OP's view.

 

I"m a citizen of the USA. But you know what? I'd like to learn to ski. How about we (the USA) just go ahead and take over Switzerland? I would learn to love to ski there. After all, we are capable of "crashing" Switzerland. We obviously have better equipment.

 

I also love to fish. Most of my experience is wtih freshwater fish (smallmouth & trout). BUT, I would love to do some serious sal[bleep]er fishing. I realize that we have some pretty good sal[bleep]er fishing in the USA (i have fished the Keys), but I want to be as efficient as possible. I also want to go someplace more exotic. Maybe Costa Rica? Never been there, but how hard could it be to crash the whole place? We have built up or military. We "deserve" to claim Costa Rica if we want. {Heck, while we are there, we might as well travel a little south and take over Panama. How hard could that be? They have that little canal I think we should control. After all, it is the most efficient method of travel in many circumstances. Our power gives us the "right" to control that efficiency.}

 

I also like to hunt. But I'm tired of the common game we have here in the USA. I'm thinking we should just go ahead and claim some African Countries. Safari anyone?

[langer]

I've been thinking about the logic behind the OP's view.

 

I"m a citizen of the USA. But you know what? I'd like to learn to ski. How about we (the USA) just go ahead and take over Switzerland? I would learn to love to ski there. After all, we are capable of "crashing" Switzerland. We obviously have better equipment.

 

I also love to fish. Most of my experience is wtih freshwater fish (smallmouth & trout). BUT, I would love to do some serious sal[bleep]er fishing. I realize that we have some pretty good sal[bleep]er fishing in the USA (i have fished the Keys), but I want to be as efficient as possible. I also want to go someplace more exotic. Maybe Costa Rica? Never been there, but how hard could it be to crash the whole place? We have built up or military. We "deserve" to claim Costa Rica if we want. {Heck, while we are there, we might as well travel a little south and take over Panama. How hard could that be? They have that little canal I think we should control. After all, it is the most efficient method of travel in many circumstances. Our power gives us the "right" to control that efficiency.}

 

I also like to hunt. But I'm tired of the common game we have here in the USA. I'm thinking we should just go ahead and claim some African Countries. Safari anyone?

 

Sure thing bud, let's do that after we secure our petroleum interest in the middle east first. After all, with all the puppet dictators we helped thrive in south america during the 70s and 80s, claiming back what was ours should not be a problem...

 

You make it sound like this never happen IRL.

[jettrider]

This after bashing people for "false" base arguments?

 

At the only boss that Jagex seriously attempted to make unsoloable (the Corporeal Beast), crashing is not nearly as big of an issue and has only been mentioned mockingly in this thread.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I've been playing Runescape longer then you, and that you didn't start playing Runescape before 2005. For if you had, you would have known that Jagex revamped the KBD's lair, like, three or four times and changed the way his breath attacks worked in order to get people to stop solo'ing it. You would also know that when the KQ came out, it only had a magic and melee attack, and that after people figured out how to range solo the entire thing the whole way through, Jagex totally nerfed the rune throwing axe special and added a range attack to make it exponentially more difficult for people to solo. There were a few changes to the DK's lair, but that was mainly to get people to stop safe spotting Rex, and a few changes to GWD's in which also made it a bit more difficult to people to solo by hiding in the door frames. As it stands, no, boss monsters really weren't made to be solo'ed. History attests to this fact.

 

I actually wish I still had the links to the updates Jagex gave us regarding the new game engine in the RSC -> RS2 conversion when they explained multi-combat areas.

 

I've been playing on and off since 2002. Isn't it fantastic to put yourself on morally superior ground to everyone who opposes you on the premise that you've been around for longer? Even in RSC people found ways around all that to solo the KBD. Considering I remember being online the morning of the KQ update, I can say that tweaking the KQ's difficulty had more to do with how easy it was to not take damage (in a team OR solo) rather than to specifically target solo players. I'm not sure where you're going with the next two examples as Rex can still be easily safespotted and every GWD boss can be soloed for over an hour. The saradomin boss room shape was first abused (and for months) by a team, not by solo players.

 

Point is, with the current game engine it would be very easy for Jagex to create a boss monsters that cannot even be attempted solo. However, they prefer to deal with the difficulty of the monster to adjust the difficulty for players trying to solo bosses. Even now the Corporeal Beast more or less requires the special attack of an elite piece of gear (the Statius Warhammer) to attempt to solo. If Jagex really wanted the Corporeal Beast to remain unsoloable, they would simply create a game mechanic where you can't enter the boss lair except with a team or nerf the special of the warhammer.

 

If every boss was meant to be killed only with a team, then every world would have lootshare. You can speculate all you want about Jagex's intentions before Lootshare but it's really not relevant to the OP's point.

 

We've turned this into a debate about ethics and psychology when it really all started from a discussion about finding a spot for your character to kill some monsters. I think we've agreed by now that crashing without attempting to hop worlds is wrong, but I'm really astonished at the two concepts you have pushed forth so far - that the first player to as much as breathe on a resource should get full dibs on the rewards and that all bosses were created to be team/collaborative activities.

 

I'm really astonished that:

 

1.) The concept of decency is lost upon some people. And

 

2.) You would think that Jagex would put boss-monster in multi-combat if it was meant to be solo'ed, and are content to ignore changes that Jagex has made to make it harder to solo boss monsters.

 

1) Take your cheap shot but there's a world of difference between mining a rock someone else is mining when there are a bunch nearby and forcing players soloing one TD at a time in the multi-kill spot to move to the single-kill spot. You seem to be taking the highest ground possible for the most vile crashing techniques and spreading it to everything in the game.

 

2) The point in the first part recycled. I addressed it above; solo play has been allowed and encouraged. Any claim that it hasn't is pure speculation until Jagex specifically creates a game mechanic to create instanced bosses for teams.

[TheAncient]

As I've said before in this thread, the "solution" to crashing is to have a larger selection of bosses. Even a chaotic spear would take a few players away from Bandos, TDs, or DKs for a little while. We just need to have more to do.

 

While this suggestion would alleviate the problem somewhat, I don't think it's a perfect solution. Armadyl is more profitable than Bandos, yet people still choose to do Bandos. Why? Either they don't have the ranged stats, or simply because armadyl is harder to do (longer KC) and a bit less fun. Likewise, adding similarly profitable but uninteresting bosses would probably have the same result.

 

I've been thinking about the logic behind the OP's view.

 

I also like to hunt. But I'm tired of the common game we have here in the USA. I'm thinking we should just go ahead and claim some African Countries. Safari anyone?

 

Lol. China is actually basically buying Africa as we speak right now... :thumbup: Forgot why, but it might be oil.

 

If you say you hog a spot because you believe it is the only way for you to make good money, then say that you would not want instanced boss locations because it would remove the purpose, then would that mean that you pretty much advocate this system that prevents all the players who joined after you did from ever being able to play the game like you did until the experience is robbed of all potential enjoyment?

 

Does this actually need to happen?

 

I'm not clear of your reasoning here. Why don't the newcomers just train for the same stats I have and then crash me? I'd be fine with that if they knew what they were doing and had better equipment.

[Danqazmlp]

 

If you say you hog a spot because you believe it is the only way for you to make good money, then say that you would not want instanced boss locations because it would remove the purpose, then would that mean that you pretty much advocate this system that prevents all the players who joined after you did from ever being able to play the game like you did until the experience is robbed of all potential enjoyment?

 

Does this actually need to happen?

 

I'm not clear of your reasoning here. Why don't the newcomers just train for the same stats I have and then crash me? I'd be fine with that if they knew what they were doing and had better equipment.

 

To get the better equipment you need to boss hunt, to boss hunt you need better equipment etc. That is what i think strilmus is talking about. Those who just start have no hope of competing because to compete, you need to have already competed.

 

It means that new players cannot get started, and that the only time new players will be able to join in is when the boss has been bled dry and is no longer profitable.

[TheAncient]

 

If you say you hog a spot because you believe it is the only way for you to make good money, then say that you would not want instanced boss locations because it would remove the purpose, then would that mean that you pretty much advocate this system that prevents all the players who joined after you did from ever being able to play the game like you did until the experience is robbed of all potential enjoyment?

 

Does this actually need to happen?

 

I'm not clear of your reasoning here. Why don't the newcomers just train for the same stats I have and then crash me? I'd be fine with that if they knew what they were doing and had better equipment.

 

To get the better equipment you need to boss hunt, to boss hunt you need better equipment etc. That is what i think strilmus is talking about. Those who just start have no hope of competing because to compete, you need to have already competed.

 

It means that new players cannot get started, and that the only time new players will be able to join in is when the boss has been bled dry and is no longer profitable.

 

I assumed that's what he meant, but I don't think that assumption is true.

1) You don't need to boss hunt one particular boss to make money - there are plenty of other bosses out there. Heck, you don't even need to MH for money.

2) All bosses are so old nowadays that their profitability has already reached an equilibrium. None of them are completely unprofitable.

[Danqazmlp]

To those who have the best gear i agree most bosses are profitable whatever, but those who have little money and are forced to use gear which isn't the best, there are many bosses which are no longer profitable, kq, kbd, even GWD bosses could be unprofitable for many if they don't have good gear.

 

There are plenty of bosses, but that is the whole essence of this thread, there are very few bosses which you won't get crashed at by those who can still make profit who use the best gear.

 

And unless you merchant or boss hunt, there really are no realistic ways that a play will get the money to buy the gear to compete for bosses with. That is my whole argument for instancing all bosses, making gear cheaper for all people.

[TheAncient]

To those who have the best gear i agree most bosses are profitable whatever, but those who have little money and are forced to use gear which isn't the best, there are many bosses which are no longer profitable, kq, kbd, even GWD bosses could be unprofitable for many if they don't have good gear.

 

There are plenty of bosses, but that is the whole essence of this thread, there are very few bosses which you won't get crashed at by those who can still make profit who use the best gear.

 

And unless you merchant or boss hunt, there really are no realistic ways that a play will get the money to buy the gear to compete for bosses with. That is my whole argument for instancing all bosses, making gear cheaper for all people.

 

If by profit you mean more than 0 GP expected an hour, I disagree with your claim. Almost all bosses are profitable (more than 0 gp an hour) as long as you aren't like... using brews, PvP gear, and Overloads for no reason. For example, don't say barraging the KQ is unprofitable... cause no one does that.

 

Hunting, Making unf pots, Frost Dragons (yes, the only real requirement is 85 DG) all can make around 1M an hour. Double nats too maybe? Farming. There's a lot more but I haven't done my research into alternative monemaking.

 

As for using shoddy gear... the most expensive thing that anyone really needs is DClaws. Everything on top of that - Armadyl, Bandos, Fury, DFS - is gravy and doesn't make or break killing a boss. Sure, training to 95 prayer and 91+ Herb are expensive, but there are ways to train those skills without such high cost (getting your own bones, soul wars, nightshade gathering, herb cleaning). DG is also completely free.

[ho3f3l]

I've been thinking about the logic behind the OP's view. I"m a citizen of the USA. But you know what? I'd like to learn to ski. How about we (the USA) just go ahead and take over Switzerland? I would learn to love to ski there. After all, we are capable of "crashing" Switzerland. We obviously have better equipment. I also love to fish. Most of my experience is wtih freshwater fish (smallmouth & trout). BUT, I would love to do some serious sal[bleep]er fishing. I realize that we have some pretty good sal[bleep]er fishing in the USA (i have fished the Keys), but I want to be as efficient as possible. I also want to go someplace more exotic. Maybe Costa Rica? Never been there, but how hard could it be to crash the whole place? We have built up or military. We "deserve" to claim Costa Rica if we want. {Heck, while we are there, we might as well travel a little south and take over Panama. How hard could that be? They have that little canal I think we should control. After all, it is the most efficient method of travel in many circumstances. Our power gives us the "right" to control that efficiency.}I also like to hunt. But I'm tired of the common game we have here in the USA. I'm thinking we should just go ahead and claim some African Countries. Safari anyone?

you have done it already, you wanted oil, you crashed iraq!!

[Owned_Nex]

To those who have the best gear i agree most bosses are profitable whatever, but those who have little money and are forced to use gear which isn't the best, there are many bosses which are no longer profitable, kq, kbd, even GWD bosses could be unprofitable for many if they don't have good gear.

 

There are plenty of bosses, but that is the whole essence of this thread, there are very few bosses which you won't get crashed at by those who can still make profit who use the best gear.

 

And unless you merchant or boss hunt, there really are no realistic ways that a play will get the money to buy the gear to compete for bosses with. That is my whole argument for instancing all bosses, making gear cheaper for all people.

 

If by profit you mean more than 0 GP expected an hour, I disagree with your claim. Almost all bosses are profitable (more than 0 gp an hour) as long as you aren't like... using brews, PvP gear, and Overloads for no reason. For example, don't say barraging the KQ is unprofitable... cause no one does that.

 

Hunting, Making unf pots, Frost Dragons (yes, the only real requirement is 85 DG) all can make around 1M an hour. Double nats too maybe? Farming. There's a lot more but I haven't done my research into alternative monemaking.

 

As for using shoddy gear... the most expensive thing that anyone really needs is DClaws. Everything on top of that - Armadyl, Bandos, Fury, DFS - is gravy and doesn't make or break killing a boss. Sure, training to 95 prayer and 91+ Herb are expensive, but there are ways to train those skills without such high cost (getting your own bones, soul wars, nightshade gathering, herb cleaning). DG is also completely free.

 

For the higher levelled players, the only way to make cash is the top tier stuff. I think there are bosses where you lose money. If you go kill the KQ or KBD, you are wasting time. Time=money,

[Bladewing]

All the gear you need to win a crash at bandos is:

 

Rapier

Fury

Dragon boots

Barrows gloves

Rune Defender / Obsidian shield+

Lent claws

 

If you're telling me you HAVE to kill bandos to make 20m...

[Owned_Nex]

 

If you're telling me you HAVE to kill bandos to make 20m...

 

Who said that lol.

[Obtaurian]

All the gear you need to win a crash at bandos is:

 

Rapier

Fury

Dragon boots

Barrows gloves

Rune Defender / Obsidian shield+

Lent claws

 

If you're telling me you HAVE to kill bandos to make 20m...

 

This. Training gear to get maxed stats is cheap, and you don't NEED elite armor to MH effectively. People who argue that "crashing is bad because how r the low levels supposed to make munnyz?!" are delusional. The only expensive skills are prayer and herblore. If you have maxed melee, 99 ranged, a chaotic weapon, a high summoning level, and some cheap gear, you can make a lot of money at TDs without 95 prayer or extremes. Hell, you can even make a lot of money at Barrows.

 

Need to max combat? Go do some slayer. When you're done you'll be very close to maxed and most likely have the money for a high prayer or herblore level. When done right, slayer is the best way to train combat. It will also teach you about low-scale crashing and competition.

[Owned_Nex]

I guess it just comes down to, like every other thread on F2P and whatnot; lazy people.

[Bladewing]

 

If you're telling me you HAVE to kill bandos to make 20m...

 

Who said that lol.

 

To get the better equipment you need to boss hunt, to boss hunt you need better equipment etc. That is what i think strilmus is talking about. Those who just start have no hope of competing because to compete, you need to have already competed.

 

It means that new players cannot get started, and that the only time new players will be able to join in is when the boss has been bled dry and is no longer profitable.

[Owned_Nex]

There are different levels of boss. Top tier is Corp, TDs, Frosties. Then theres GWD. Lower down is Barrows, Green Dragons, etc. Lastly skills. Its disillusion to think you can skip to the top.

[Viv]

There are different levels of boss. Top tier is Corp, TDs, Frosties. Then theres GWD. Lower down is Barrows, Green Dragons, etc. Lastly skills. Its disillusion to think you can skip to the top.

frosties arent a boss@@@ they just make lots of gp/hr and they arent that crowded but after the dungeoneering update they probably will be more crowded but most people that have the willingness to camp frosties are so high lvled anyway

 

tds are harder than gwd i agree lol i support an instanced boss like a tormented demon.

[stonewall337]

 

If you're telling me you HAVE to kill bandos to make 20m...

 

Who said that lol.

 

To get the better equipment you need to boss hunt, to boss hunt you need better equipment etc. That is what i think strilmus is talking about. Those who just start have no hope of competing because to compete, you need to have already competed.

 

It means that new players cannot get started, and that the only time new players will be able to join in is when the boss has been bled dry and is no longer profitable.

 

 

Should be fairly obvious that, in this thread as in many others, danz has NO clue what he is talking about.

[Zaaps1]

I think you COULD make a case for the fact that it's unfair since new players cannot experience boss hunting and thus have no motivation (I think that's what Danz is saying?).

 

But then, if they want experience, there are a plethora of bosses for that. Kalphite Queen needs some friends and the Mole could use some love as well. Don't forget Barrows, where it's pretty damn hard to get crashed at.

 

And if you need motivation, then, well, look at the GE?

[Bladewing]

I don't want to crash him because i'm regularly crashed by [cabbage]heads like him, but I gotta say you're dumb as [cabbage]. Oh, and ss, get bent. Or cancer, your choice.

Well now that you put it that way, I completely understand your point of view.

[ghjkl]

I don't want to crash him because i'm regularly crashed by [cabbage]heads like him, but I gotta say you're dumb as [cabbage]. Oh, and ss, get bent. Or cancer, your choice.

Well now that you put it that way, I completely understand your point of view.

 

Lol, that's what you get I guess for making a thread that would attract people like him.

From my viewpoint, someone is gonna crash that poor noob, might as well be me so I can get an empty world. There is no reason NOT to crash except to be nice. You get someone to tank some damage and deal some damage for free. Of course it seems like the community apparently thinks that since you are low level you are entitled to your own private boss spot.

[GuidesForScapers]

If people claim that crashers stop them making cash, they are idiots. You can make more money doing Barrows than GWD with any luck. Considering the huge amount of effort required to find a world, not get crashed, set up and generally be arsed to do it, IMO Barrows is the superior option.

 

Also, i crash people 138 for a kill at a time heh. Especially at KBD, no anti fires, nothing. A tiny bit of food, 2 venges and claws. I have had a few decent drops from doing so, and i am doing the same at CT bronzes at the moment.

 

I don't mean to sound brutal, but people on Runescape need to grow some balls. Not everyone is as nice as people would like to think, so just deal with it and move on.