Jump to content

Wilderness and free trade vote! - Now Closed


Jimmyw3000

  

576 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Jagex reintroduce free trade and the old Wilderness?

    • Yes.
      351
    • No.
      169
    • Indifferent ...
      56


Recommended Posts

In response to some of the mind-numbing and boggling things posted here, I am plagued by a myriad of things I want to express yet I am speechless and without time at once, so I can't address most of what I want to here but I will focus on one thing in particular for now:

 

 

Please don't throw us down this avenue again. We had a 20 page thread explaining why bots were a bad thing if you want to go back to it.

 

Botting may be big at the moment, but some forms are limited. I can guarantee that botting will increase. Currently, there may be ways to transfer, but it is limited and not widespread knowledge. Once we get back to a trade system allowing anybody, even without knowledge to RWT, it will increase.

 

Increase? And?

 

Oh thats right. I forgot that the game can survive perfectly fine when X% of the players are bots. But when free trade comes back, the population will reach its critical ammount of X+5% of bots and an abyssal portal will open up and swallow the Runescape servers for all of eternity. I almost forgot about that.

 

 

Did I ever say it would collapse? Please, don't put words in my mouth.

 

Runescape is currently full of bots which for many players spoils the game. Why would anybody want to bring more into the game? I think it is a viable opinion to not want an update which will bring more bots and gold farmers into the game.

 

 

So, you acknowledge that that it won't collapse but lets take away some of the most important priviledges and game mechanices(free-trade) away from the innocent majority to punish (ineffectively) a minority of people? Before, the pretense in 2007 was that it was necessary to implement these measures because the problem was too severe and on the premise that it would adequately stop what was needed to be stopped, but now it is rather revealing that people like you have such a pathological hatred of even a minimal(as compared to what existed before) increase in botting/RWT that you want to punish everyone? I am not one to resort Ad-Hominem but I can't help but say that you really should re-examine your core values if you are really bothered by other people breaking the rules, how do you ever bother living in the real world where crime is rampant? More importantly, it bothers you so much that you are willing to punish millions of innocent and rule abidding players just for the prospect that botting won't increase marginally? Your authorotarian, and possesive(in the sense that you simply can't tolerate the fact that other people are cheating, you want to possess them as far as possible so that they cana adhere to your morality instead of simply letting them make choices and suffer the consequences) mentality is frightening. Again, this is not meant to be an insult--considering your positions are a tepid confession of these tendencies .

 

It essentially comes down to the time honored maxim of trading liberties for securities(though in this case it isn't even that because RWT/Botting does not hinder my in game security), which has proven time and again to be true. I will forget for a moment that that maxim doesn't apply completely, since securities aren't involved but we will throw that away for the sake of argument. I mean, why not just take the mentality of trading liberties for securities one step further--which will inevitably be its logical extreme--why not just turn this into a single player game(you have already taken one of the most important aspects of interaction in a multi-player game)? That way we can eliminate even some more forms of cheating? Again, this mentality does not bode well. You simply can't control people, you have to let them make choices and suffer their consequences, so why punish innocents for the mistakes of innocents--espacially when doing so will NOT result in an equivalent drop in cheating in porportion to the benefits surrendered?

 

You have completely forsaken the cost benefit analysis. If you are going to take away such a fundemental aspect of the game, there better be some results(not that if taking free trade away resulted in a SIGNIFICANT decrease in botting, that the punishment of the majority of innocents for the minority is hardly a viable moral position), but we have already agreed that even that isn't attainable since your position is essentially: "There are a lot of bots already, so why would be want a little bit more?". Now, I added the "little bit" part but we have already demonstrated that botting/RWT are on similar levels in comparison to that of before, so we can only conclude that Free-trade will only result in a marginal increase(assuming we dismiss Jagex's claims of increased measures which you seem to have done somewhat inconsistenly).

 

It isn't really a position that can be morally or even say 'rationally'(I am referring strictly to efficiency here) supported.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 2.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Honestly, I won't believe Jagex's new super botting prevention programs will work until they're put into play and we see them in action. I'm paranoid like that, I refuse to believe it until I see it with my own eyes.

 

Even though I highly doubt Jagex's bot prevention program will work (for long), I'm still voting yes. I may doubt their program is going to work, but I also doubt they wouldn't even dare go down this path unless they have some method of bot prevention that they haven't revealed yet.

 

Nevermind the fact that my one vote won't make a damn difference either way, lol.

 

My view is what ever happens, happens. We'll just have to ride it out one way or the other, or quit. I have no plans of quitting yet (although I don't play nearly as much as I used to), and I plan on getting as much enjoyment out of this game as possible before I get bored of it.

 

I will admit I'm pleased that they're looking into relocation some wildy based activities and such, though. Although I'm unsure where they're going to put it all, if it's not staying in the wild...

 

My apologies if my post is a bit jumbled >.<

Link_Olaran.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This update is going to re-introduce a lot more bad than good.

 

1) A lot of the really immature, trollish, belligerent PKers are going to return to the game. Many PKers are insufferable to interact with because they act like [bleep]ing e-gangsters. Many of the worst ones left after Jagex "killed the wilderness" because they were too immature to adapt.

 

2) Item scamming, luring, griefing, hacking for profit, and other similar douchebaggery will resurface. Previously, people would only hack others to be sadistic [bleep]s. Now you can profit by hacking someone and stealing their items, so there's a much bigger reason. Be especially careful with account security once this comes to pass.

 

3) While this will get rid of the horrible problem of price manipulators crippling the market flow on certain items, bots are a thousand times more of a nuisance than manipulators. Bots make skilling for cash totally unviable and they make skilling for exp very frustrating. They ruin the prices on all natural resources by flooding the market with them, which will drive more people towards MHing, which makes MY job harder because there is more competition (and there is already extremely tough competition right now).

 

4) There has to be a reason for this decision, and all theories are undesirable. One theory is that they have given up on RS and plan to put it on the back-burner in a year or two (still maintaining their servers so that their cash cow doesn't go away, but just ceasing to update it) while they pimp a new product, and therefore want to draw in as many people as possible (to make as much cash as possible in the next year or two) and make the game as good as possible before they pull support for it. The other theory, as has been touched on already, is that they plan to introduce micropayments for cheap to undercut any potential RWTers. Micropayments inevitably leads down a slippery slope as more and more people will choose to buy their way to high skills/good items instead of playing the game for years to earn the cash for such things. Eventually, the community becomes so corrupted that it becomes impossible to compete with anybody or really accomplish anything without using micropayments yourself.

td2sig.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It's speculation, but perhaps this might work out for them after all.

I voted yes, as I'm willing to risk retuning to the "glory days" once again even if it will drive the game into the ground. If they think they can pull it off, I have enough faith in them to at least try.

 

This about sums up my feelings also. Would I rather continue to surely destroy the game by letting it continue to be centered around a clumsy trade system, or would I rather RISK destroying the game but possibly breathe new life into it?

 

I choose the option that could help or hurt the game, instead of the option that will surely continue to hurt the game.

Myweponsgood.gif

Need assistance in any of these skills? PM me in game, my private chat is always ON

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing that I don't understand is that the game has held its own since the removal of free trade and such. I could see this as a last resort if the game was about to die and fall to shambles but it really isn't. Jagex is still making great money so I can't pin point their reason for doing this without a plan to combat the reason they took it away in the first place.

 

I put my trust in them when they took it away, I'm forced to put my trust in them again. I've enjoyed the game for the last 3 years so I can't complain either way it goes.

Low_C.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This update is going to re-introduce a lot more bad than good.

 

1) A lot of the really immature, trollish, belligerent PKers are going to return to the game. Many PKers are insufferable to interact with because they act like [bleep]ing e-gangsters. Many of the worst ones left after Jagex "killed the wilderness" because they were too immature to adapt.

 

See my previous post about clash of cultures. Most PKers also think that YOU are "immature" or otherwise stupid for not loving the old version of the wilderness. When we as humans clash with a culture that we do not understand, we arrogantly tend to percieve the foreign culture as inferior in multiple ways (emotions, intelligence, rationality, etc)

2) Item scamming, luring, griefing, hacking for profit, and other similar douchebaggery will resurface. Previously, people would only hack others to be sadistic [bleep]s. Now you can profit by hacking someone and stealing their items, so there's a much bigger reason. Be especially careful with account security once this comes to pass.

 

Nothing to say about this one.

3) While this will get rid of the horrible problem of price manipulators crippling the market flow on certain items, bots are a thousand times more of a nuisance than manipulators. Bots make skilling for cash totally unviable and they make skilling for exp very frustrating. They ruin the prices on all natural resources by flooding the market with them, which will drive more people towards MHing, which makes MY job harder because there is more competition (and there is already extremely tough competition right now).

 

See other posts in the thread, concerning the fact that botting is STILL as prevelant now as it ever has been. Log in to varrok yews in F2P sometime. Also, we have to give Jagex a little trust that they actually have some new and improved technology to combat this.

 

4) There has to be a reason for this decision, and all theories are undesirable. One theory is that they have given up on RS and plan to put it on the back-burner in a year or two (still maintaining their servers so that their cash cow doesn't go away, but just ceasing to update it) while they pimp a new product, and therefore want to draw in as many people as possible (to make as much cash as possible in the next year or two) and make the game as good as possible before they pull support for it. The other theory, as has been touched on already, is that they plan to introduce micropayments for cheap to undercut any potential RWTers. Micropayments inevitably leads down a slippery slope as more and more people will choose to buy their way to high skills/good items instead of playing the game for years to earn the cash for such things. Eventually, the community becomes so corrupted that it becomes impossible to compete with anybody or really accomplish anything without using micropayments yourself.

 

What about the theory that MMG is highly concerned with customer satisfaction, and that this update has been recieved with mostly high regard and will give many players a renewed interest in the game? I think that theory sounds pretty damn desireable.

Myweponsgood.gif

Need assistance in any of these skills? PM me in game, my private chat is always ON

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This update is going to re-introduce a lot more bad than good.

 

1) A lot of the really immature, trollish, belligerent PKers are going to return to the game. Many PKers are insufferable to interact with because they act like [bleep]ing e-gangsters. Many of the worst ones left after Jagex "killed the wilderness" because they were too immature to adapt.

 

It's already like that in PvP and BH worlds

 

2) Item scamming, luring, griefing, hacking for profit, and other similar douchebaggery will resurface. Previously, people would only hack others to be sadistic [bleep]s. Now you can profit by hacking someone and stealing their items, so there's a much bigger reason. Be especially careful with account security once this comes to pass.

 

There are so many warnings nowadays about scamming and account protection, this really shouldn't be a problem anymore.

 

3) While this will get rid of the horrible problem of price manipulators crippling the market flow on certain items, bots are a thousand times more of a nuisance than manipulators. Bots make skilling for cash totally unviable and they make skilling for exp very frustrating. They ruin the prices on all natural resources by flooding the market with them, which will drive more people towards MHing, which makes MY job harder because there is more competition (and there is already extremely tough competition right now).

 

Bots are still here.

 

4) There has to be a reason for this decision, and all theories are undesirable. One theory is that they have given up on RS and plan to put it on the back-burner in a year or two (still maintaining their servers so that their cash cow doesn't go away, but just ceasing to update it) while they pimp a new product, and therefore want to draw in as many people as possible (to make as much cash as possible in the next year or two) and make the game as good as possible before they pull support for it. The other theory, as has been touched on already, is that they plan to introduce micropayments for cheap to undercut any potential RWTers. Micropayments inevitably leads down a slippery slope as more and more people will choose to buy their way to high skills/good items instead of playing the game for years to earn the cash for such things. Eventually, the community becomes so corrupted that it becomes impossible to compete with anybody or really accomplish anything without using micropayments yourself.

 

I suppose all theories are legitimate at this point, but I still don't agree with this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Initially, this may sound like a good idea, but how many years will it take to work all the bugs and glitches out of this "update"?

 

I could care less about the wilderness, but I do care about the economy, specifically, the Grand Exchange, which was a great idea, for the most part.

 

I would continue to use the G.E. for most items (because it just makes sense), but might consider player to player trade for expensive items. My concerm is that the Exchange continues to function okay, in conjunction with pvp free trade.

 

I would never want to go back to the "good old days" of standing in a bank, typing over and over again, to buy or sell common every day stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Initially, this may should like a good idea, but how many years will it take to work all the bugs and glitches out of this "update"?

 

I could care less about the wilderness, but I do care about the economy, specifically, the Grand Exchange, which was a great idea, for the most part.

 

I would continue to use the G.E. for most items (because it just makes sense), but might consider player to player trade for expensive items. My concerm is that the Exchange continues to function okay, in conjunction with pvp free trade.

 

I would never want to go back to the "good old days" of standing in a bank, typing over and over again, to buy or sell common every day stuff.

 

RS wasn't meant to be easy, just going to the G.E, typing in what you want, and getting it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The war on bots is not something you can win. It's always back and forth. When game developers create new anti-bot measures, from there it's only a question of time before a workaround is devised by skilled bot programmers.

 

Weve been shutting down bot-makers all around the world and prosecuting people for stealing accounts, and weve evolved our systems to quickly detect cheating; however, we will have to accept that we will never completely eradicate cheating so long as there is an incentive and method to do so. Bringing back free trade and the original Wilderness will certainly make this a bigger issue than it is today, though I can pledge that we will never stop trying to combat it.

Jagex of course knows this. They're asking the community if we want the wilderness and free trade back, even at the cost of increased gold farming, botting and cheating. They're saying they will try to stop it, but they as know as well as we do that they are ultimately powerless against it.

2480+ total

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The war on bots is not something you can win. It's always back and forth. When game developers create new anti-bot measures, from there it's only a question of time before a workaround is devised by skilled bot programmers.

 

Weve been shutting down bot-makers all around the world and prosecuting people for stealing accounts, and weve evolved our systems to quickly detect cheating; however, we will have to accept that we will never completely eradicate cheating so long as there is an incentive and method to do so. Bringing back free trade and the original Wilderness will certainly make this a bigger issue than it is today, though I can pledge that we will never stop trying to combat it.

Jagex of course knows this. They're asking the community if we want the wilderness and free trade back, even at the cost of increased gold farming, botting and cheating. They're saying they will try to stop it, but they as know as well as we do that they are ultimately powerless against it.

 

I actually have a question. HOW and WHY would free trade/old wilderness increase botting for hells sake?!!?!?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I the only one who's getting sick and tired of people multi quotiing a specific post? :rolleyes:

 

Anyhoo, it's nice to see they've finally added more opinions on the vote. n_n

 

I think it is useful to quote multiple posts because then people have the opportunity to read an entire exchange of thoughts between two or more individuals. It would be really stupid if I had to go back a few pages just to see where the current discussion came from.

Myweponsgood.gif

Need assistance in any of these skills? PM me in game, my private chat is always ON

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually have a question. HOW and WHY would free trade/old wilderness increase botting for hells sake?!!?!?

 

From Jagex's own words:

 

Weve been shutting down bot-makers all around the world and prosecuting people for stealing accounts, and weve evolved our systems to quickly detect cheating; however, we will have to accept that we will never completely eradicate cheating so long as there is an incentive and method to do so. Bringing back free trade and the original Wilderness will certainly make this a bigger issue than it is today, though I can pledge that we will never stop trying to combat it.

 

Simply put, free trading made it easier or more desireable to bot on spares.

 

That is not a reason to abandon hope that free trade coming back will have the same issues as the old days had. If anything, I think it's going to put more pressure on them to be faster and crack down ten times harder because of it. And in doing so, we stand a chance of having a balanced game that offers equal opportunity for both the skiller and the pker.

hzvjpwS.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually have a question. HOW and WHY would free trade/old wilderness increase botting for hells sake?!!?!?

 

From Jagex's own words:

 

Weve been shutting down bot-makers all around the world and prosecuting people for stealing accounts, and weve evolved our systems to quickly detect cheating; however, we will have to accept that we will never completely eradicate cheating so long as there is an incentive and method to do so. Bringing back free trade and the original Wilderness will certainly make this a bigger issue than it is today, though I can pledge that we will never stop trying to combat it.

 

Simply put, free trading made it easier or more desireable to bot on spares.

 

That is not a reason to abandon hope that free trade coming back will have the same issues as the old days had. If anything, I think it's going to put more pressure on them to be faster and crack down ten times harder because of it. And in doing so, we stand a chance of having a balanced game that offers equal opportunity for both the skiller and the pker.

 

Now that's something I don't understand, since most people bot their pures to a small 10m cash by cutting yews or mining rune ess, and now you will be able to just transfer 10m from your main.. = less bots imo?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol this

^Na... THats currently todays population of bots in certain locations. Been a massive increase in last 6 months especially. (edit, replying original poster =p)

 

After freetrade it more like this.

 

Macros_woodcutting.gifMacros_woodcutting.gifMacros_woodcutting.gif

Macros_woodcutting.gifMacros_woodcutting.gifMacros_woodcutting.gif

jOi7G.png

~PM me and I'll do my best to make you a signature!~

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

See my previous post about clash of cultures. Most PKers also think that YOU are "immature" or otherwise stupid for not loving the old version of the wilderness. When we as humans clash with a culture that we do not understand, we arrogantly tend to percieve the foreign culture as inferior in multiple ways (emotions, intelligence, rationality, etc)

Oh, believe you me, I enjoyed the old version of the Wilderness far more than the current immitation. My comment wasn't about that-- it was about the old PKers. As far as undestanding them, I did. I have done my fair share of clanning.

 

 

See other posts in the thread, concerning the fact that botting is STILL as prevelant now as it ever has been. Log in to varrok yews in F2P sometime. Also, we have to give Jagex a little trust that they actually have some new and improved technology to combat this.

No ****ing way. Bots are still present, but there are not dozens of bots at every fishing spot or tree like in past times. It's no where near as bad as it was before 12/10.

 

What about the theory that MMG is highly concerned with customer satisfaction, and that this update has been recieved with mostly high regard and will give many players a renewed interest in the game? I think that theory sounds pretty damn desireable.

Nope. Jagex is and has always been concerned with their bottom line-- money. MMG does care more about player input than the leaders of past regimes, but having played this game for ten years, I can say without a doubt that they haven't done a heel-face turn of this caliber just to please their players.

td2sig.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

RS wasn't meant to be easy, just going to the G.E, typing in what you want, and getting it.

Each to their own, but my idea of having fun in this game doesn't include spending a potential great deal of time, standing around in a bank typing over and over again to buy or sell. I would rather do something else more productive, like leveling a skill.

 

As I mentioned, this does not preclude the fact that I may try pvp trading to sell expensive items.

 

So, I would be happy to see the Grand Exchange continue to function properly, albeit it with the price caps removed. With the use of it, you can reach across all the worlds, not just the one you're in. So, to my mind, it just makes good sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RS wasn't meant to be easy, just going to the G.E, typing in what you want, and getting it.

Each to their own, but my idea of having fun in this game doesn't include spending a potential great deal of time, standing around in a bank typing over and over again to buy or sell. I would rather do something else more productive, like leveling a skill.

 

As I mentioned, this does not preclude the fact that I may try pvp trading to sell expensive items.

 

So, I would be happy to see the Grand Exchange continue to function properly, albeit it with the price caps removed. With the use of it, you can reach across all the worlds, not just the one you're in. So, to my mind, it just makes good sense.

Got a point there :P

 

But imo: less botting with free trade, because nowadays someone for example creates a f2p pure, bots it to 60 wc at willows, then cuts yews till like 85. Boom, good starting pk cash. With freetrade, one can just give that cash to his pure account via his main; faster.

Edited by tripsis
Please utilize the "Edit" button instead of double posting.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But imo: less botting with free trade, because nowadays someone for example creates a f2p pure, bots it to 60 wc at willows, then cuts yews till like 85. Boom, good starting pk cash. With freetrade, one can just give that cash to his pure account via his main; faster.

With free trade giving people the ability to freely transfer wealthy, botting will have a major resurgence because all the RWT companies will redeploy their bots to make GP to sell.

td2sig.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.