First of all if your in max mage defence, you will beat a mage every time.

 

Ehh yeah no...

 

Would you like to test it on me? Yes 99.9% of the time I would win...

 

I'll test it if he doesn't :)

 

Alright than :rolleyes:

First of all if your in max mage defence, you will beat a mage every time.

 

Ehh yeah no...

 

Would you like to test it on me? Yes 99.9% of the time I would win...

 

I'll test it if he doesn't :)

 

Alright than :rolleyes:

 

Saying max mage defense makes you immune to magic is like saying wearing full torags makes you immune to melee. With the proper gear, your opponent will still retain reasonable accuracy. Then there's a whole variety of status effects that'll come along with it too.

 

Also, if anything, more melee gear should improve melee attack bonus. Notice that range armor generally improves range offensively, magic armor generally improves magic offensively. Melee armors usually don't have that much of an effect, if any.

 

And before you say "melee doesn't need the attack bonus," hybrids generally have no problem ranging in magic gear. Good ranged weapons offer pretty significant range bonuses on their own, and they go one step farther than melee - all their range strength is derived from their ammunition, and none from their armor.

First of all if your in max mage defence, you will beat a mage every time.

 

Ehh yeah no...

 

Would you like to test it on me? Yes 99.9% of the time I would win...

 

I'll test it if he doesn't :)

 

Alright than :rolleyes:

 

Saying max mage defense makes you immune to magic is like saying wearing full torags makes you immune to melee. With the proper gear, your opponent will still retain reasonable accuracy. Then there's a whole variety of status effects that'll come along with it too.

 

Also, if anything, more melee gear should improve melee attack bonus. Notice that range armor generally improves range offensively, magic armor generally improves magic offensively. Melee armors usually don't have that much of an effect, if any.

 

And before you say "melee doesn't need the attack bonus," hybrids generally have no problem ranging in magic gear. Good ranged weapons offer pretty significant range bonuses on their own, and they go one step farther than melee - all their range strength is derived from their ammunition, and none from their armor.

 

I never said i'm immune to mage attacks, it's just that mage barely has a ko factor by itself. If I were t fight someone in max mage, while wearing max mage defence, I could just run up to the mage and spec with claws.

[spoiler=Quote pyramid]

First of all if your in max mage defence, you will beat a mage every time.

 

Ehh yeah no...

 

Would you like to test it on me? Yes 99.9% of the time I would win...

 

I'll test it if he doesn't :)

 

Alright than :rolleyes:

 

Saying max mage defense makes you immune to magic is like saying wearing full torags makes you immune to melee. With the proper gear, your opponent will still retain reasonable accuracy. Then there's a whole variety of status effects that'll come along with it too.

 

Also, if anything, more melee gear should improve melee attack bonus. Notice that range armor generally improves range offensively, magic armor generally improves magic offensively. Melee armors usually don't have that much of an effect, if any.

 

And before you say "melee doesn't need the attack bonus," hybrids generally have no problem ranging in magic gear. Good ranged weapons offer pretty significant range bonuses on their own, and they go one step farther than melee - all their range strength is derived from their ammunition, and none from their armor.

 

I never said i'm immune to mage attacks, it's just that mage barely has a ko factor by itself. If I were t fight someone in max mage, while wearing max mage defence, I could just run up to the mage and spec with claws.

 

 

How can you run if you're frozen solid? How can you KO if I'm protected by a light aura for a full minute while your attack speed is halved? How can you hit me if you've been blinded?

 

Just some variables to consider :P

Agreed, it's just the irony wasn't lost on me.

 

"I'm a skiller who doesn't want to be PKed" --> "Don't enter the Wildy then". --> "OMG stupid PKers"

 

"I'm a PKer who doesn't want to lose my rapier." --> "Don't PK with a rapier then." --> "OMG lucky D Scim 1-item noobs"

Well as I said the 1-item rule (and non-skull-retailation rule) are used to protect skillers there: you've an advantage of 3 items less risked while skilling in wilderness.

[spoiler=Quote pyramid]

First of all if your in max mage defence, you will beat a mage every time.

 

Ehh yeah no...

 

Would you like to test it on me? Yes 99.9% of the time I would win...

 

I'll test it if he doesn't :)

 

Alright than :rolleyes:

 

Saying max mage defense makes you immune to magic is like saying wearing full torags makes you immune to melee. With the proper gear, your opponent will still retain reasonable accuracy. Then there's a whole variety of status effects that'll come along with it too.

 

Also, if anything, more melee gear should improve melee attack bonus. Notice that range armor generally improves range offensively, magic armor generally improves magic offensively. Melee armors usually don't have that much of an effect, if any.

 

And before you say "melee doesn't need the attack bonus," hybrids generally have no problem ranging in magic gear. Good ranged weapons offer pretty significant range bonuses on their own, and they go one step farther than melee - all their range strength is derived from their ammunition, and none from their armor.

 

I never said i'm immune to mage attacks, it's just that mage barely has a ko factor by itself. If I were t fight someone in max mage, while wearing max mage defence, I could just run up to the mage and spec with claws.

 

 

How can you run if you're frozen solid? How can you KO if I'm protected by a light aura for a full minute while your attack speed is halved? How can you hit me if you've been blinded?

 

Just some variables to consider :P

 

Well if food is being used, than I can just outlast your sol spec/ :shades:

Also, if anything, more melee gear should improve melee attack bonus. Notice that range armor generally improves range offensively, magic armor generally improves magic offensively. Melee armors usually don't have that much of an effect, if any.

 

Ignoring the fact that melee is the only combat type that can increase max hit by wearing different armours.

 

Boy howdy we derailed this 8-)

I'm going to throw something in here. Now, I'm not sure if the CW combat is any different than PKer combat, but I very much enjoy playing it, and I can distinctly remember one time when I was bursting a guy in full arma, with mage protect prayer, and 99 mage...and I was still hitting him quite decently. He was getting very irritated with this. Granted I was wearing Ahrim's with SOL, not sure if it makes any difference though.

/discussion

 

hmm where did the 'cuss' in the word come from? :unsure:

hmm where did the 'cuss' in the word come from? :unsure:

the perfect passive participle of the latin verb discutere (to disperse) is "discussus"

Agree with the chaotic too, although you should get some sort of drop for killing a guy using a Chaotic too

Knowing Jagex, that's probably how people will get Statius and Vesta and such stuff when the update takes effect.

Agree with the chaotic too, although you should get some sort of drop for killing a guy using a Chaotic too

Knowing Jagex, that's probably how people will get Statius and Vesta and such stuff when the update takes effect.

 

That would actually be something I think I could agree with.

Agree with the chaotic too, although you should get some sort of drop for killing a guy using a Chaotic too

Knowing Jagex, that's probably how people will get Statius and Vesta and such stuff when the update takes effect.

 

That would actually be something I think I could agree with.

 

Me too. It's a good way to solve the loot-related issues caused by people who PK in mostly untradeables.

they could just do something as simple as having bounty hunter worlds which have a bounty target timer, and when you kill your target you get additional drops off the current pvp drop table (including brawlers, pvp equipment statues, etc.)

Agree with the chaotic too, although you should get some sort of drop for killing a guy using a Chaotic too

Knowing Jagex, that's probably how people will get Statius and Vesta and such stuff when the update takes effect.

 

That would actually be something I think I could agree with.

 

Me too. It's a good way to solve the loot-related issues caused by people who PK in mostly untradeables.

The only problem with it that I can see would be how to value the untradables lost. Since otherwise, you'd get people killing each other both wearing full achievement diary armor and making millions.

Agree with the chaotic too, although you should get some sort of drop for killing a guy using a Chaotic too

Knowing Jagex, that's probably how people will get Statius and Vesta and such stuff when the update takes effect.

 

That would actually be something I think I could agree with.

 

Me too. It's a good way to solve the loot-related issues caused by people who PK in mostly untradeables.

The only problem with it that I can see would be how to value the untradables lost. Since otherwise, you'd get people killing each other both wearing full achievement diary armor and making millions.

 

Glad to know that bringing back PvP Wilderness is not a simple as "Restart '06 Rules".

 

1. There's disagreement on the 1-item rule as you now have 1-items that allow 1 hit chances with minimum risk. Some solutions can be creating a "risked on death" rule like now, or even removing item protect altogether. Given the outcry when item protect was removed on PvP servers, I doubt that would happen. Another solution is creating 0/+3 and +1/+4 servers while removing item protect prayer for everybody.

 

2. These powerful untradeable equipment are more noticeable than in 2006. Some agree there needs to be a fair in game value added to them, and some method to let their killers get compensated with that value. What Jagex can do is evaluate all the common untradeable equipment, and alter items that offer decent combat advantage. Basically, those items have a cost replacement added to them while your killer would get 3/5 that value in a coin drop. Or just let players retrieve their untradeable items with no penalty like before.

 

I still think the skulling rule can be improved. The auto-skull of current PvP seemed like an improvement, as there was no question what you are risking on those servers. Is there be anything wrong with requiring players to be skulled ahead of time to allow being able to attack non-skulled people in the wild? Basically, you can get skulled if you enter the abyss, talk to a chaos wizard at Edgeville who'll skull you, or attack a skulled player that didn't attack you. I also think left-click attack of players should be a selectable option in addition to friends and clan mates.

 

I'm cool with the idea of risking death in the wild, but not with rules that encourage attempts to kill others while risking little on your own. Requiring legitimate risk to rate reward, on top of making it obvious if a player is there to kill other players (skull rule) improves the game I think.

I can't wait to Pk in DH and not have to risk 15m every death.

 

The only problem with it that I can see would be how to value the untradables lost. Since otherwise, you'd get people killing each other both wearing full achievement diary armor and making millions.

 

Don't value them, make killing someone who has them just give you a chance at getting a PVP drop, not a guaranteed thing.

 

NukeMarine, Jagex updated the vote page yesterday and they've added that:

 

# New objects that affect combat will be analysed on an individual basis

 

So maybe this means they're looking at things like claws and extremes and K-swords?

NukeMarine, Jagex updated the vote page yesterday and they've added that:

 

# New objects that affect combat will be analysed on an individual basis

 

So maybe this means they're looking at things like claws and extremes and K-swords?

 

Yes, MMG posted that last month in the article talking about the first referendum.

 

I'll be honest, a lot of this can be solved (with a lot of pain) by just removing +1 prayer and making untradeables disappear on death (current PvP rule on many servers, no?). If you're skulled then you don't get to save any items on death through prayer or untradeable items. I personally think most won't care about over powered items when it turns out the guy using it is honestly risking it when he dies. Course, that means making untradeable items with useful combat boosts difficult or costly to recover.

 

Hopefully though, they make some rule to help deter PJ. Not being able to see the death pile AT ALL if you didn't kill the guy helps. I don't know if this is the case now, but if Player A gets down to 10 lp when killing Player B, only Player A can see the death pile of Player B (invisible even to player B). If Player A gets PJ'd at his 10 lp, as Player B did the most damage (despite being killed), only Player B will get to see Player A's death pile. If that's the case, then PJers to get any drop need to let their potential victims heal up enough so a majority of the damage is done by the PJer. Was it already that way?

Removing protect item will cause HUGE backlash, though. A lot of people want to be able to use their spirit shields and godswords and chaotics and claws. I have a mixed opinion on doing that. On one hand, it'd greatly go towards re-balancing PvP, as you would rarely ever run into the overpowered crap (divine/claws/AGS/chaotic) that exists if protect item were disabled while skulled, so all these "spec products" would go away and the wild would be much closer to its pre-GWD glory days before everyone did 2/3 of a maxed player's HP in a single hit. On the other hand, this would absolutely destroy the price on many items, and I don't really want to lose that kind of money. :|

 

I think Nuke's idea is awesome, though, and it saves Jagex a LOT of work. "You can only be attacked by other players in the Wilderness if you are skulled." Keep Revenants in the Wild, but make them neutral to you if you are skulled so that you don't have PKers who worry about dealing with other PKers and revs. As Nuke mentioned, allow skulling by attacking a skulled player, using the Abyss, or talking to a new NPC in edge bank who automatically "skulls" you. This way, the wanna-be PKers can't kill clue hunters and/or skillers, but they can still RC PK and there is still some danger to skillers in the Wild because of revenants. Perhaps they could also make revenants more common to compensate for the PKers who whine that the Wild was meant to be dangerous for skillers.

 

As far as untradeables go, they should be valued in tiers, with tier 1 consisting of chaotics, fire capes, PvP armor/weapons, and imbued fremmenik/onyx rings and giving the greatest "potential" to get PvP items. Tier 2 would be BA items like torsos and fighter hats, dstone (i) ring, along with the SW cape and barrow/drag gloves, and this tier would give moderate potential. Tier 3 would be dragon/rune defenders, skill capes, rune gloves, dwarven helm, and painted rune shields/helms and this tier would give small potential. Tier 4 would consist of Achievement Diary items and lesser imbued rings and RFD gloves, along with lesser defenders and other miscellaneous quest items and would give negligible potential. A system like this has to be set up if they're going to reward people for untradeables, because if they just gave people chance to get PvP items because people wore untradables, as somebody mentioned people would just farm kills in achievement diary gear.

I think Nuke's idea is awesome, though, and it saves Jagex a LOT of work. "You can only be attacked by other players in the Wilderness if you are skulled." Keep Revenants in the Wild, but make them neutral to you if you are skulled so that you don't have PKers who worry about dealing with other PKers and revs. As Nuke mentioned, allow skulling by attacking a skulled player, using the Abyss, or talking to a new NPC in edge bank who automatically "skulls" you. This way, the wanna-be PKers can't kill clue hunters and/or skillers, but they can still RC PK and there is still some danger to skillers in the Wild because of revenants. Perhaps they could also make revenants more common to compensate for the PKers who whine that the Wild was meant to be dangerous for skillers.

You're that terrified of other players? I'd love to see how you'd react if you ran into a black guy in a dark alley somewhere :rolleyes:

I think Nuke's idea is awesome, though, and it saves Jagex a LOT of work. "You can only be attacked by other players in the Wilderness if you are skulled." Keep Revenants in the Wild, but make them neutral to you if you are skulled so that you don't have PKers who worry about dealing with other PKers and revs. As Nuke mentioned, allow skulling by attacking a skulled player, using the Abyss, or talking to a new NPC in edge bank who automatically "skulls" you. This way, the wanna-be PKers can't kill clue hunters and/or skillers, but they can still RC PK and there is still some danger to skillers in the Wild because of revenants. Perhaps they could also make revenants more common to compensate for the PKers who whine that the Wild was meant to be dangerous for skillers.

You're that terrified of other players? I'd love to see how you'd react if you ran into a black guy in a dark alley somewhere :rolleyes:

Nice racial stereotype. :rolleyes:

I think Nuke's idea is awesome, though, and it saves Jagex a LOT of work. "You can only be attacked by other players in the Wilderness if you are skulled." Keep Revenants in the Wild, but make them neutral to you if you are skulled so that you don't have PKers who worry about dealing with other PKers and revs. As Nuke mentioned, allow skulling by attacking a skulled player, using the Abyss, or talking to a new NPC in edge bank who automatically "skulls" you. This way, the wanna-be PKers can't kill clue hunters and/or skillers, but they can still RC PK and there is still some danger to skillers in the Wild because of revenants. Perhaps they could also make revenants more common to compensate for the PKers who whine that the Wild was meant to be dangerous for skillers.

You're that terrified of other players? I'd love to see how you'd react if you ran into a black guy in a dark alley somewhere :rolleyes:

 

I fail to see where he claimed to be afraid of other players. If you're trying to troll, you aren't doing a very good job.

 

Personally, I also think Nuke's idea is pretty much perfect. It satisfies skillers, pkers, and clue hunters. The only people who I can see having a problem with it are those who specifically want to pray on defenseless players. I don't see the appeal in going after clue hunters or skillers since the pker gets hardly anything for the kill and they become an annoyance. All it does is create more bad feelings between the two groups and, frankly, the current culture conflict between them is bad enough already.

Removing protect item will cause HUGE backlash, though. A lot of people want to be able to use their spirit shields and godswords and chaotics and claws. I have a mixed opinion on doing that. On one hand, it'd greatly go towards re-balancing PvP, as you would rarely ever run into the overpowered crap (divine/claws/AGS/chaotic) that exists if protect item were disabled while skulled, so all these "spec products" would go away and the wild would be much closer to its pre-GWD glory days before everyone did 2/3 of a maxed player's HP in a single hit. On the other hand, this would absolutely destroy the price on many items, and I don't really want to lose that kind of money. :|

Well, like they did on PvP servers, Jagex can create some +1 worlds. Skillers that use the wilderness and "real PKers" will just avoid such worlds. Plus, as items are not destroyed with return of free trade, I think you'll find PKers willing to risk high priced items since they can also win high priced items.

 

I think Nuke's idea is awesome, though, and it saves Jagex a LOT of work. "You can only be attacked by other players in the Wilderness if you are skulled." Keep Revenants in the Wild, but make them neutral to you if you are skulled so that you don't have PKers who worry about dealing with other PKers and revs. As Nuke mentioned, allow skulling by attacking a skulled player, using the Abyss, or talking to a new NPC in edge bank who automatically "skulls" you. This way, the wanna-be PKers can't kill clue hunters and/or skillers, but they can still RC PK and there is still some danger to skillers in the Wild because of revenants. Perhaps they could also make revenants more common to compensate for the PKers who whine that the Wild was meant to be dangerous for skillers.

Oh SNAP! Great idea about keeping revenants, but letting them be neutral to skulled players. Post that idea on the main site immediately.

 

About the skull rule, what I meant was a non-skulled player cannot attack another non-skulled player in case anyone misunderstands. Now, it still allows for Dharok abusers, then again it's easy to ignore such cheesy players. Also, it probably can help to where you only lose your skull if you're out of the Wilderness for over 20 minutes (don't want to lose your skull waiting for a target now do you?).

 

As far as untradeables go, they should be valued in tiers, with tier 1 consisting of chaotics, fire capes, PvP armor/weapons, and imbued fremmenik/onyx rings and giving the greatest "potential" to get PvP items. Tier 2 would be BA items like torsos and fighter hats, dstone (i) ring, along with the SW cape and barrow/drag gloves, and this tier would give moderate potential. Tier 3 would be dragon/rune defenders, skill capes, rune gloves, dwarven helm, and painted rune shields/helms and this tier would give small potential. Tier 4 would consist of Achievement Diary items and lesser imbued rings and RFD gloves, along with lesser defenders and other miscellaneous quest items and would give negligible potential. A system like this has to be set up if they're going to reward people for untradeables, because if they just gave people chance to get PvP items because people wore untradables, as somebody mentioned people would just farm kills in achievement diary gear.

Sounds cool, and can give new reason to artifacts. Kill a guy wearing a Tier 1 artifact and get an expensive artifact.

Making it so that skillers cannot get pked takes away an element of what the wilderness is (was). For planned fights to the death, the duel arena is the place to go. For safe skilling there is the bulk of Runescape. In the wilderness, it is basically an anything goes environment. The incentives are the rewards: abundant resources, boss monsters only found in the wild, things of this nature. The risk involved is that other players can kill you and take your loot; easy come, easy go. The point is that there are not, and should not be any restrictions on who you can attack or be attacked by (except of course the wilderness depth/combat level ratio).

 

I never went into the wilderness to pk very often, but I did end up defending myself many times while gathering resources. That is what it's all about. Being a well rounded player becomes important if you wish to acquire things in the wild. For example I really began training my combat level not to pk or fight monsters, but to defend myself when mining runite/adamant ores. The risks involved are what makes the wilderness so enjoyable and exciting. Not just for pkers, but for all who enter the area north of the ditch.