Wilderness and Free Trade will return - 17 January 2011

[Hajutze]

Yeah you probably could, but if you are going to bring one back it makes sense to bring both seeing as they were linked and were both removed at the same time.

It makes sense to return free trading if you are going to re-implement old wildy. But in no possible universe it makes sense to return wildy if you are going to re-implement free trade.

Why not? I'm genuinely curious, I haven't given it much thought.

The old wildy is pretty much based on wealth transfer (the current PvP is based on removing wealth from the game while introducing different kind of wealth at the same time), it would be logical to reintroduce a system for free/non-limited wealth transfer when you reintroduce non-limited wealth transfer based PvP.

On the other side - the non-limited wealth transfer has nothing to do with PvP. Considering that I find the current PvP being if not better at least comparable with the old system (this has nothing to do with the needed amount of danger in wildy) you'd find it more logical to introduce the old drop system with the current PvP but PvP area in every world is not a logical next step from introducing a different trade system ...

In other words it's logical to add the trade system in the PvP, adding PvP in every world because of a trade system is not.

[Estoc]

Can't have one without the other really.

What's with everyone saying this. It's possible to have free trade without old wildy.

 

... and it's certainly possible to have the old Wildy without free trade ... :mellow:

 

If they put wildy back and no free trade, people would just trade through wilderness. If they put free trade and no wilderness, they would have effectively left wilderness out for no reason whatsoever. Either option tells either free traders or pkers respectively that Jagex don't care about them.

 

It's bad business, but hey, I guess they could put only free trade or wildy in by itself for kicks.

[aspeeder]

Can't have one without the other really.

What's with everyone saying this. It's possible to have free trade without old wildy.

 

... and it's certainly possible to have the old Wildy without free trade ... :mellow:

Not really, if you consider the fact that everything from your opponent will drop on death then restricted trade will be completely irrelevant: if they bring back old wildy it would be ridiculous not to bring back free trade as well. And for the other position: why maintain the droptable and statuettes that continue rapid inflation if bots can simply transfer the wealth via trading? I agree with SirHatlar here, one without the other would be ineffectual.

[Hajutze]

Until they keep HA as the best F2P and a decent P2P training option the statues are not the biggest problem (the current deflation is mostly because of some sort of a panic and it won't bring the old prices)

[All_Is_Great]

So, what I'm getting from this is that, because they could have rigged it, they must have.

 

This sums up Blyaunte's point of view perfectly. Also Omali's posters are pretty awesome, Blyaunte you should put them in your signature.

 

Yeah you probably could, but if you are going to bring one back it makes sense to bring both seeing as they were linked and were both removed at the same time.

It makes sense to return free trading if you are going to re-implement old wildy. But in no possible universe it makes sense to return wildy if you are going to re-implement free trade.

Why not? I'm genuinely curious, I haven't given it much thought.

The old wildy is pretty much based on wealth transfer (the current PvP is based on removing wealth from the game while introducing different kind of wealth at the same time), it would be logical to reintroduce a system for free/non-limited wealth transfer when you reintroduce non-limited wealth transfer based PvP.

On the other side - the non-limited wealth transfer has nothing to do with PvP. Considering that I find the current PvP being if not better at least comparable with the old system (this has nothing to do with the needed amount of danger in wildy) you'd find it more logical to introduce the old drop system with the current PvP but PvP area in every world is not a logical next step from introducing a different trade system ...

In other words it's logical to add the trade system in the PvP, adding PvP in every world because of a trade system is not.

 

Except that they took out the Old Wilderness because its free trade elements allowed people to use it to RWT, and make it harder to detect. They didn't take it out because skillers were getting harmed by PKers, and they didn't take it out to protect the clue hunters and Abyss Rcers. So if they re-implement free trade, then it would only be fair to return the old wilderness.

 

It's not so much as the theory on how they can/ can't co-exist, it's more the reason why many PKers were hurt when they were innocent.

[Hajutze]

I am just saying that for some reason some people are disregarding the possibility for a separate vote (I want wildy and FT, I want only FT, I want only wildy) with a strange argument. And it wouldn't hurt to know how many people want only the one without the other (it might be inefficient to implement only one of them but it's not a bad idea to have such information)

[Blyaunte]

Can't have one without the other really.

What's with everyone saying this. It's possible to have free trade without old wildy.

 

... and it's certainly possible to have the old Wildy without free trade ... :mellow:

Not really, if you consider the fact that everything from your opponent will drop on death then restricted trade will be completely irrelevant: if they bring back old wildy it would be ridiculous not to bring back free trade as well. And for the other position: why maintain the droptable and statuettes that continue rapid inflation if bots can simply transfer the wealth via trading? I agree with SirHatlar here, one without the other would be ineffectual.

 

Reallly -- how many "honest" (not RWT) PK's did you manage to get in the "old Wildy" that allowed you to obtain HUGE amounts of gear or cash?

[Blyaunte]

So, what I'm getting from this is that, because they could have rigged it, they must have.

 

This sums up Blyaunte's point of view perfectly. Also Omali's posters are pretty awesome, Blyaunte you should put them in your signature.

 

Hey if you can demonstrate to me why and/or how, on earth, ANY legitimate corporate entity would or could clusterf**k their way through a game-changing operation in this fashion, I am all ears.

 

I'm all in favour of giving up the entire "deliberate rigging" argument in favour of "Jagex is chocked full of incompetent boobs" any time ...

 

:lol:

[Veiva]

Can't have one without the other really.

What's with everyone saying this. It's possible to have free trade without old wildy.

 

... and it's certainly possible to have the old Wildy without free trade ... :mellow:

Not really, if you consider the fact that everything from your opponent will drop on death then restricted trade will be completely irrelevant: if they bring back old wildy it would be ridiculous not to bring back free trade as well. And for the other position: why maintain the droptable and statuettes that continue rapid inflation if bots can simply transfer the wealth via trading? I agree with SirHatlar here, one without the other would be ineffectual.

 

Reallly -- how many "honest" (not RWT) PK's did you manage to get in the "old Wildy" that allowed you to obtain HUGE amounts of gear or cash?

 

This reminds me of an event in RuneScape that happened to me.

 

I loved PKing in the old wilderness. Great fun, great risk. I happened across some dude in awesome gear (for the time). He was PKing in full rune (g) or something along those lines (this was back in late '05/early '06 if I recall correctly). I was seriously stunned. So we talked for a bit and agreed to a DM. I fought and won, and then before he died he told me to meet him back at Edgeville bank. I agreed, and then he gave me 1.5m or so in stuff when I got there (which, remember, at the time that was quite a bit). In total I made ~4m off a PK.

 

Also, I've met quite a lot of decent people PKing back in the first two or so years of RuneScape 2. Now, I really don't PK anymore, so I wouldn't be able to tell you how good/bad the game community now is. But the few times I have it was just a little bit worse some days, a little bit better others.

 

So, now for my opinion about this whole mess.

 

I wouldn't have been upset if they left out the wilderness and only brought back free trade (though I would wonder what the point in that would be; why only cater to one membership base and not the other?). And I see that they can't bring back the wilderness and not free trade. In either case, I am happy, just like I'd be content (but disappointed) if they didn't. We've gotten by without free trade this long. But in the end, either way works.

 

(I voted "Yes" on the poll).

[All_Is_Great]

So, what I'm getting from this is that, because they could have rigged it, they must have.

 

This sums up Blyaunte's point of view perfectly. Also Omali's posters are pretty awesome, Blyaunte you should put them in your signature.

 

Hey if you can demonstrate to me why and/or how, on earth, ANY legitimate corporate entity would or could clusterf**k their way through a game-changing operation in this fashion, I am all ears.

 

I'm all in favour of giving up the entire "deliberate rigging" argument in favour of "Jagex is chocked full of incompetent boobs" any time ...

 

:lol:

 

Hey if you can give me some evidence on how they rigged the vote... go right ahead.

[Blyaunte]

So, what I'm getting from this is that, because they could have rigged it, they must have.

 

This sums up Blyaunte's point of view perfectly. Also Omali's posters are pretty awesome, Blyaunte you should put them in your signature.

 

Hey if you can demonstrate to me why and/or how, on earth, ANY legitimate corporate entity would or could clusterf**k their way through a game-changing operation in this fashion, I am all ears.

 

I'm all in favour of giving up the entire "deliberate rigging" argument in favour of "Jagex is chocked full of incompetent boobs" any time ...

 

:lol:

 

Hey if you can give me some evidence on how they rigged the vote... go right ahead.

 

Let me ask you this when Jagex removed the Wilderness and Free Trade three years ago purportedly because of RWT, with the excuse of how much RWT was hurting them financially, and how they almost lost the business, did you think they were telling you the truth back then?

 

Did you believe them?

 

Do you think Jagex has a handle on RWT trading now?

 

More than likely, the difference between now and three years ago has more to do with the settlement of all legal claims against them filed by the credit card companies, than it does with anything else. I'd wager that Jagex prolly now has sufficient legal protocols in place to deny their own liability for any illicit transaction performed via a stolen credit card, or whatever it was purported to have transpired.

 

Not that Jagex would allow any disclosure of, or admit to, any information relating to such a settlement, but hey, I'm just sayin' ...

 

:rolleyes:

[Danqazmlp]

Guys remember, this forum is for discussion on a topic, not for flaming or spamming when you disagree with another persons viewpoint. If you disagree, state why you do, do not flame or antagonise them. If a post is in an antagonising manner, please use the report function instead of replying to it.

 

Thanks

Danqazmlp

Tip.it Moderator

[SirHartlar]

So, what I'm getting from this is that, because they could have rigged it, they must have.

 

This sums up Blyaunte's point of view perfectly. Also Omali's posters are pretty awesome, Blyaunte you should put them in your signature.

 

Hey – if you can demonstrate to me why and/or how, on earth, ANY legitimate corporate entity would or could clusterf**k their way through a game-changing operation in this fashion, I am all ears.

 

I'm all in favour of giving up the entire "deliberate rigging" argument in favour of "Jagex is chocked full of incompetent boobs" any time ...

 

:lol:

 

Hey if you can give me some evidence on how they rigged the vote... go right ahead.

 

Let me ask you this – when Jagex removed the Wilderness and Free Trade three years ago purportedly because of RWT, with the excuse of how much RWT was hurting them financially, and how they almost lost the business, did you think they were telling you the truth back then?

 

Did you believe them?

 

Do you think Jagex has a handle on RWT trading now?

 

More than likely, the difference between now and three years ago has more to do with the settlement of all legal claims against them filed by the credit card companies, than it does with anything else. I'd wager that Jagex prolly now has sufficient legal protocols in place to deny their own liability for any illicit transaction performed via a stolen credit card, or whatever it was purported to have transpired.

 

Not that Jagex would allow any disclosure of, or admit to, any information relating to such a settlement, but hey, I'm just sayin' ...

 

:rolleyes:

 

If that was the case, why would they need to rig the vote? If they felt that bringing back free trade and the old wilderness was possible without the risk of having credit card fraud like before then why wouldn't they ask the community if they should? Even if RWT and botting stays at the same level as it is now, that won't mean they made a bad decision to switch to the old system. This way they get more money from subscriptions and the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of their customer base is happy as OVER 90% of them voted positively for it.

 

Everyone knows that they took a dip in subscriptions when lots of players quit in 07, it makes sense therefore that a lot of player would want the current system to be changed back. The fallout from the 07 changes was massive, the implications of Jagex changing that around again now are equally so. You are basing your conspiracy theory on a complete whim, you only need to see the old users coming back to this forum as a result of the referendum as proof that the poll attracted a large number of people and, therefore, is most likely legit.

[pulli23]

Why is it so important that it be called a publicity stunt?

 

IMO, if that's the case, then good on JaGex for being smart and trying to make as much money as possible.

Look at this this way, they make money, the players are happy, a win-win situation. Why all the hate? Is it that there's nothing else to hate on so you guys resort to calling them "liars" and this whole thing a "publicity stunt"?

 

Why is it so important for you not to call it what it is? If it makes you happy then go with it. Hell, buy yourself a T-shirt, to remind yourself how YOU brought the Wilderness back. But where were you three years ago when we really needed you?

 

 

Ok, but you're saying a publicity stunt is a bad thing, while I don't exactly think so.

 

Publicity stunts aren't a bad thing, it's just that if this particular case is purely a publicity stunt, they've mistreated the democratic process. You should never assume the results of a referendum before the referendum is held. It strikes a nerve with a lot of people, me included.

It happens al the time though.

 

IE: our parlemaint made already very thorough plans to help the navo teaching police man in kunduz.. Yet it still has to be voted for!

 

You CANT wait till after a vote often, and you'll have to prepare anyways.

[Defy]

I think they should add this.

 

IF you have 99 in the skill and you pk someone with that skillcape it should drop.

 

What do you think?

[aspeeder]

Can't have one without the other really.

What's with everyone saying this. It's possible to have free trade without old wildy.

 

... and it's certainly possible to have the old Wildy without free trade ... :mellow:

Not really, if you consider the fact that everything from your opponent will drop on death then restricted trade will be completely irrelevant: if they bring back old wildy it would be ridiculous not to bring back free trade as well. And for the other position: why maintain the droptable and statuettes that continue rapid inflation if bots can simply transfer the wealth via trading? I agree with SirHatlar here, one without the other would be ineffectual.

 

Reallly -- how many "honest" (not RWT) PK's did you manage to get in the "old Wildy" that allowed you to obtain HUGE amounts of gear or cash?

I don't pk, where did you get that idea from in my post? I'm saying that if either one of the two elements was implemented bots could easily transfer large sums of wealth to their customers, so keeping the other stricter would have no effect on RWT but it would continue to aggravate large swaths of the player base. To respond to another thread you posted on arguing much the same point: it's not that the two are integral to each other per-se, but the community views them as together since they were both taken away at the same time for the same reason, RWT. If one but not the other was implemented the community would question the legitimacy of the decision and continue protesting to bring the other back, and JaGeX would have very little legitimate claims to not bring it back.

[Jehosaphat]

I must admit, watching this stuff has been fun.

 

Beware: Personal Opinions Ahead!

 

Free trade: yay. Make it harder for manipulators to screw with the system without literally buying out the entire supply of something, let me give birthday presents to my friends. And public chat can, of course, stay on friends like it has for most of my RS career anyways to keep away beggars.

 

Wilderness: ew. No offense to the cool PKers here, but most of the people in the old wilderness were jerks who just wanted a cheap kill, regardless of whether or not you actually carried anything. In my opinion, giving people the option to do that will bring more jerks into the game and give Runescape a lower overall public opinion due to its community. But on the other hand, I look forward to finding ways to thwart these guys. Inventory full of Serum 207 ahoy!

[All_Is_Great]

So, what I'm getting from this is that, because they could have rigged it, they must have.

 

This sums up Blyaunte's point of view perfectly. Also Omali's posters are pretty awesome, Blyaunte you should put them in your signature.

 

Hey if you can demonstrate to me why and/or how, on earth, ANY legitimate corporate entity would or could clusterf**k their way through a game-changing operation in this fashion, I am all ears.

 

I'm all in favour of giving up the entire "deliberate rigging" argument in favour of "Jagex is chocked full of incompetent boobs" any time ...

 

:lol:

 

Hey if you can give me some evidence on how they rigged the vote... go right ahead.

 

Let me ask you this when Jagex removed the Wilderness and Free Trade three years ago purportedly because of RWT, with the excuse of how much RWT was hurting them financially, and how they almost lost the business, did you think they were telling you the truth back then?

 

Did you believe them?

 

Do you think Jagex has a handle on RWT trading now?

 

More than likely, the difference between now and three years ago has more to do with the settlement of all legal claims against them filed by the credit card companies, than it does with anything else. I'd wager that Jagex prolly now has sufficient legal protocols in place to deny their own liability for any illicit transaction performed via a stolen credit card, or whatever it was purported to have transpired.

 

Not that Jagex would allow any disclosure of, or admit to, any information relating to such a settlement, but hey, I'm just sayin' ...

 

:rolleyes:

 

Still no evidence. Just your conspiracy theories, and ones that don't make much sense really.

 

I believe Jagex is innocent until proven guilty, so I don't believe they've rigged the vote. I believe 90% did indeed want ft/ow back. You don't have to roll eyes at me for not having the same opinion as you.

[Defy]

So, what I'm getting from this is that, because they could have rigged it, they must have.

 

This sums up Blyaunte's point of view perfectly. Also Omali's posters are pretty awesome, Blyaunte you should put them in your signature.

 

Hey if you can demonstrate to me why and/or how, on earth, ANY legitimate corporate entity would or could clusterf**k their way through a game-changing operation in this fashion, I am all ears.

 

I'm all in favour of giving up the entire "deliberate rigging" argument in favour of "Jagex is chocked full of incompetent boobs" any time ...

 

:lol:

 

Hey if you can give me some evidence on how they rigged the vote... go right ahead.

 

Let me ask you this when Jagex removed the Wilderness and Free Trade three years ago purportedly because of RWT, with the excuse of how much RWT was hurting them financially, and how they almost lost the business, did you think they were telling you the truth back then?

 

Did you believe them?

 

Do you think Jagex has a handle on RWT trading now?

 

More than likely, the difference between now and three years ago has more to do with the settlement of all legal claims against them filed by the credit card companies, than it does with anything else. I'd wager that Jagex prolly now has sufficient legal protocols in place to deny their own liability for any illicit transaction performed via a stolen credit card, or whatever it was purported to have transpired.

 

Not that Jagex would allow any disclosure of, or admit to, any information relating to such a settlement, but hey, I'm just sayin' ...

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

 

Actually bro, i recall jagex saying that banks were threatening to stop transactions to runescape.com because of stolen credit cards.

[Den]

I would like the wilderness T-shirt more if it said: "I put the WILD in Wilderness!"

 

It also has the nice touch that unless there's a picture if something Runescape-related, it could appeal to those who don't want to show they play RS. :P

[yuyu13]

Dunno if this has been posted in here yet, but for those who are interested:

QFC: 254,255,55,62204744

 

Mod Hohbein on FT and WIlderness.

[Den]

Dunno if this has been posted in here yet, but for those who are interested:

QFC: 254,255,55,62204744

 

Mod Hohbein on FT and WIlderness.

 

GF grave blessing. Now nobody will bless graves anymore. :P

[yuyu13]

Dunno if this has been posted in here yet, but for those who are interested:

QFC: 254,255,55,62204744

 

Mod Hohbein on FT and WIlderness.

 

GF grave blessing. Now nobody will bless graves anymore. :P

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Still got six minutes to get your stuff rather than the old minute (or whatever it was, can't remember exactly) that it was before.

[bedman]

Dunno if this has been posted in here yet, but for those who are interested:

QFC: 254,255,55,62204744

 

Mod Hohbein on FT and WIlderness.

 

GF grave blessing. Now nobody will bless graves anymore. :P

Damn, there are a lot of flaws in there.

 

Biggest one I've seen so far is the price guides... They will keep their sluggish 5% increase. This means we will still have the "bought out" status, in the sense that the real price is *way* higher than the guide price.

I guess merchant's will like this though. People will have to guess prices, when an item isn't buying for the guide price.

 

EDIT: statuettes will stay! (in some form). I really hope jagex balances this right, or we'll have big time abusing again.

 

It also means you can camp for brawling gloves now, wow. Killing revs might become really popular.

[Den]

They will keep their sluggish 5% increase. This means we will still have the "bought out" status, in the sense that the real price is *way* higher than the guide price.

I guess merchant's will like this though. People will have to guess prices, when an item isn't buying for the guide price.

 

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to forum-browsing for prices like I had to do way back when. >.<