Dungeonsweepers (DGS) - Huge changes; read first post.

[ghjkl]

geomancer is a [bleep]

[Ezkaton]

I just wanted to post and rant a little bit about DGS and so feel free to either regard or disregard my comments that I'm going to detail.

 

 

 

It has come to my attention, that there has been a severe move away from "teaching" people, to an attitude of "them and us". I've sat in the CC now for many weeks, and have been joining floors I can and I enjoy them greatly (and am hoping to reach at least 100 DG with DGS and friends helping), with keyers often being very understanding when it comes to me lagging and such; however, whenever I have keyed with higher up's in the CC I have found the experience often harrowing to say the least due to their focus on being the most efficient and having zero tolerence for anyone who isn't as high a level as them. I even had experience in one dungeon when I was with 3 high level dungeoneers and was promptly abandoned at 20 mins with ~quater of the dungeon left because of a "troll layout and boss". Which of course goes against the rules of DGS:

- users are not allowed to quit floors.

Unless of course, I am mistaken and it is a different rule for those DGers who are higher ups in the clan chat and those of us who are still learning?

 

 

 

Another problem that is faced in the chat that makes this void between users who want to key and the higher ups is Grimy's timesheet thing. I honestly believe that this is one of the worst thing to happen for DGS as it has now completely taken away any chance for someone like me to join a higher up/rank on a floor. Too many times now at Dae I have seen someone hosting a floor and deny a DGS user, new or old, a floor stating "No derps please, I don't want to affect my times", and I honestly believe that is why the 3 high levels in the point above quit the floor after 20 minutes.

 

 

 

DGS's main aim used to be about LEARNING and TEACHING and ultimately not about times and how many times you can key a sub 20 min 5:5. This idea ultimately separates the Chat with those who can and those who are learning. To be able to learn effectively is to have a higher up/rank keying, yet they keep themselves to themselves often operating with each other and leaving everyone else to get on with it. I remember reading a comment from a user (whom I wont mention) detailing that he can only do one floor with new people before having to do Warped's with people he knows because he can't cope teaching. THIS is the exact attitude that the higher up's in DGS are now portraying to anyone coming into the CC and I would have thought this would be the exact attitude that DGS would try to avoid. People have to learn, and start from somewhere, sometimes progress may be fast, other times it's slow and therefore you might not be able to get that precious 20 minute or below floor and therefore *GASP SHOCK HORROR!* might have to sacrifice your precious average. Yet experience is key - someone learns a lot faster with people of more experience teaching and holding their hand.

 

 

 

In my opinion, from an outside view, if this clan is going to keep living in Help and Advice instead of going into the Clan section (because ATM in my opinion with what the CC is expressing it belongs there) then some of the high end players need to lower themselves to start teaching us down here. Afterall experience is key to this teaching. I have done floors with Michael, benefitting greatly from his experience and teaching and yet still managing to get a reasonable time on a floor which was proceeded to be called horrible, but that's a different story. I learn so much from floors with Mr Recci and Mr Greens it's unbelievable because they have the experience and don't care about floor times. It's primarily down to these two people I have been able to learn my strengths and weeknesses in a dungeon and address them and become more efficient in the process. They show the exact attitude DGS should be embodying and therefore breaking up the routine of high levels just doing Warped's all the time and then doing Occs and Abd's between themselves should be the key factor, and also putting less emphasis on people getting low floor times and therefore a low average would be good.

 

 

 

This is just my current 2 pence on DGS. I love the CC and I love some of the characters in it and you guys have hooked me on dungeoneering with my aim now being 100; but it's beginning to start to feel more of an elitist clan by the week as people progress into the higher levels and leave behind those who really need the help all in aid of getting a lower average to become the best higher up keyer there is.

 

 

 

EDIT: Inb4*walloftext* :thumbsup: commentbyxpx <3:

EDIT 2: And the post above mine, by Wadebling, about having a 22 min average today exactly emphasises my points about how there is a rift forming between higher ups and lower levels (although I can see it's F15). But also look at Eyebeam and Dying Silents posts with the 14 min time - again showing that higher levels stick together to get better times.

[ghjkl]

I take noobs all the time. 5kak in that pic is like 78 dg with no hood.

I sacrifice tons of exp when I do lower warped to tick off floor 57+

Of course other keyers might not behave in the same way.

The main rift is between people with/without skype, which is why I rarely dung with any of the higher lvl ranks.

Idc about my floor times because I'm not technically a keyer anyway. Of course if you just plain out suck I won't take you again, but if you show a willingness to be better I will. I always give everyone at least 1 chance.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I just wanted to post and rant a little bit about DGS and so feel free to either regard or disregard my comments that I'm going to detail.

 

 

 

It has come to my attention, that there has been a severe move away from "teaching" people, to an attitude of "them and us". I've sat in the CC now for many weeks, and have been joining floors I can and I enjoy them greatly (and am hoping to reach at least 100 DG with DGS and friends helping), with keyers often being very understanding when it comes to me lagging and such; however, whenever I have keyed with higher up's in the CC I have found the experience often harrowing to say the least due to their focus on being the most efficient and having zero tolerence for anyone who isn't as high a level as them. I even had experience in one dungeon when I was with 3 high level dungeoneers and was promptly abandoned at 20 mins with ~quater of the dungeon left because of a "troll layout and boss". Which of course goes against the rules of DGS:

- users are not allowed to quit floors.

Unless of course, I am mistaken and it is a different rule for those DGers who are higher ups in the clan chat and those of us who are still learning?

 

Another problem that is faced in the chat that makes this void between users who want to key and the higher ups is Grimy's timesheet thing. I honestly believe that this is one of the worst thing to happen for DGS as it has now completely taken away any chance for someone like me to join a higher up/rank on a floor. Too many times now at Dae I have seen someone hosting a floor and deny a DGS user, new or old, a floor stating "No derps please, I don't want to affect my times", and I honestly believe that is why the 3 high levels in the point above quit the floor after 20 minutes.

The spreadsheets are not public. Nor are the links posted anywhere that is easy to find as far as I know.

The spreadsheets exist for us to make sure our keyers are up to par.

I'm speaking in DGS skype and i'm being told by several DGSers that they don't see many players blatantly rejecting newer players. Aside from maybe losing games.

 

 

DGS's main aim used to be about LEARNING and TEACHING and ultimately not about times and how many times you can key a sub 20 min 5:5. This idea ultimately separates the Chat with those who can and those who are learning. To be able to learn effectively is to have a higher up/rank keying, yet they keep themselves to themselves often operating with each other and leaving everyone else to get on with it. I remember reading a comment from a user (whom I wont mention) detailing that he can only do one floor with new people before having to do Warped's with people he knows because he can't cope teaching. THIS is the exact attitude that the higher up's in DGS are now portraying to anyone coming into the CC and I would have thought this would be the exact attitude that DGS would try to avoid. People have to learn, and start from somewhere, sometimes progress may be fast, other times it's slow and therefore you might not be able to get that precious 20 minute or below floor and therefore *GASP SHOCK HORROR!* might have to sacrifice your precious average. Yet experience is key - someone learns a lot faster with people of more experience teaching and holding their hand.

To clarify, teaching and learning have never been the primary goal of DGS. They are a means of training people who can do sub 20 min 5:5's.

That being said, we expect (and probably have not sufficiently communicated) that for each keyer that is ranked, we expect that ranked keyer to personally mentor 1-3 other players until they are sufficiently competent.

Because, that's necessary for growth.

But to clarify, creating a population of people who can do sub 20's, and a population that is knowledgeable of dg, and is smart, is *the* goal, upon which DGS focuses on.

Yes, we teach. But we teach with that goal in mind.

If an individual doesnt show that they are contributing their due effort, if they flat out intend to stop DGing eventually.

Then of course we reserve all right to not teach such an individual.

 

 

In my opinion, from an outside view, if this clan is going to keep living in Help and Advice instead of going into the Clan section (because ATM in my opinion with what the CC is expressing it belongs there) then some of the high end players need to lower themselves to start teaching us down here. Afterall experience is key to this teaching. I have done floors with Michael, benefitting greatly from his experience and teaching and yet still managing to get a reasonable time on a floor which was proceeded to be called horrible, but that's a different story. I learn so much from floors with Mr Recci and Mr Greens it's unbelievable because they have the experience and don't care about floor times. It's primarily down to these two people I have been able to learn my strengths and weeknesses in a dungeon and address them and become more efficient in the process. They show the exact attitude DGS should be embodying and therefore breaking up the routine of high levels just doing Warped's all the time and then doing Occs and Abd's between themselves should be the key factor, and also putting less emphasis on people getting low floor times and therefore a low average would be good.

 

 

 

This is just my current 2 pence on DGS. I love the CC and I love some of the characters in it and you guys have hooked me on dungeoneering with my aim now being 100; but it's beginning to start to feel more of an elitist clan by the week as people progress into the higher levels and leave behind those who really need the help all in aid of getting a lower average to become the best higher up keyer there is.

 

 

 

EDIT: Inb4*walloftext* :thumbsup: commentbyxpx <3:

EDIT 2: And the post above mine, by Wadebling, about having a 22 min average today exactly emphasises my points about how there is a rift forming between higher ups and lower levels (although I can see it's F15). But also look at Eyebeam and Dying Silents posts with the 14 min time - again showing that higher levels stick together to get better times.

 

PS the following individuals need to share access to their spreadsheets with [email protected]

I've been adding new code to other users' keyer logs regularly. Cept for yours, since i don't have access.

 

mr greens - chewy - losing games - zaaps - mc

[ghjkl]

I don't really update my spreadsheet anymore so I feel that it is a waste. As I've said, I'm not a ranked keyer anymore nor have motivation to become one again so the effort is most likely wasted on my spreadsheet.

[PureIsMwa]

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AobwNC4SAkDGdHoydlJnWjNnbjBOZUhLcTBWYWVuNFE&hl=en#gid=0

 

have 20 fl's recorded ( my lazy self )

[Andy]

Ezkaton you sat at dae for the past 5 floors I just did with 4 people below like 90 dg. I was advertising for a 5th for a while, too.

[usahellyes]

I just wanted to post and rant a little bit about DGS and so feel free to either regard or disregard my comments that I'm going to detail.

 

 

 

It has come to my attention, that there has been a severe move away from "teaching" people, to an attitude of "them and us". I've sat in the CC now for many weeks, and have been joining floors I can and I enjoy them greatly (and am hoping to reach at least 100 DG with DGS and friends helping), with keyers often being very understanding when it comes to me lagging and such; however, whenever I have keyed with higher up's in the CC I have found the experience often harrowing to say the least due to their focus on being the most efficient and having zero tolerence for anyone who isn't as high a level as them. I even had experience in one dungeon when I was with 3 high level dungeoneers and was promptly abandoned at 20 mins with ~quater of the dungeon left because of a "troll layout and boss". Which of course goes against the rules of DGS:

- users are not allowed to quit floors.

Unless of course, I am mistaken and it is a different rule for those DGers who are higher ups in the clan chat and those of us who are still learning?

 

 

 

Another problem that is faced in the chat that makes this void between users who want to key and the higher ups is Grimy's timesheet thing. I honestly believe that this is one of the worst thing to happen for DGS as it has now completely taken away any chance for someone like me to join a higher up/rank on a floor. Too many times now at Dae I have seen someone hosting a floor and deny a DGS user, new or old, a floor stating "No derps please, I don't want to affect my times", and I honestly believe that is why the 3 high levels in the point above quit the floor after 20 minutes.

 

 

 

DGS's main aim used to be about LEARNING and TEACHING and ultimately not about times and how many times you can key a sub 20 min 5:5. This idea ultimately separates the Chat with those who can and those who are learning. To be able to learn effectively is to have a higher up/rank keying, yet they keep themselves to themselves often operating with each other and leaving everyone else to get on with it. I remember reading a comment from a user (whom I wont mention) detailing that he can only do one floor with new people before having to do Warped's with people he knows because he can't cope teaching. THIS is the exact attitude that the higher up's in DGS are now portraying to anyone coming into the CC and I would have thought this would be the exact attitude that DGS would try to avoid. People have to learn, and start from somewhere, sometimes progress may be fast, other times it's slow and therefore you might not be able to get that precious 20 minute or below floor and therefore *GASP SHOCK HORROR!* might have to sacrifice your precious average. Yet experience is key - someone learns a lot faster with people of more experience teaching and holding their hand.

 

 

 

In my opinion, from an outside view, if this clan is going to keep living in Help and Advice instead of going into the Clan section (because ATM in my opinion with what the CC is expressing it belongs there) then some of the high end players need to lower themselves to start teaching us down here. Afterall experience is key to this teaching. I have done floors with Michael, benefitting greatly from his experience and teaching and yet still managing to get a reasonable time on a floor which was proceeded to be called horrible, but that's a different story. I learn so much from floors with Mr Recci and Mr Greens it's unbelievable because they have the experience and don't care about floor times. It's primarily down to these two people I have been able to learn my strengths and weeknesses in a dungeon and address them and become more efficient in the process. They show the exact attitude DGS should be embodying and therefore breaking up the routine of high levels just doing Warped's all the time and then doing Occs and Abd's between themselves should be the key factor, and also putting less emphasis on people getting low floor times and therefore a low average would be good.

 

 

 

This is just my current 2 pence on DGS. I love the CC and I love some of the characters in it and you guys have hooked me on dungeoneering with my aim now being 100; but it's beginning to start to feel more of an elitist clan by the week as people progress into the higher levels and leave behind those who really need the help all in aid of getting a lower average to become the best higher up keyer there is.

 

 

 

EDIT: Inb4*walloftext* :thumbsup: commentbyxpx <3:

EDIT 2: And the post above mine, by Wadebling, about having a 22 min average today exactly emphasises my points about how there is a rift forming between higher ups and lower levels (although I can see it's F15). But also look at Eyebeam and Dying Silents posts with the 14 min time - again showing that higher levels stick together to get better times.

 

I often take "derps" on my teams (there's almost always one or two on my abandoneds, and usually on my occults as well), and the only time I'll refuse to take someone is if I have done multiple floors with the person in question in which the person demonstrated an unwillingness to learn, an attitude/personality that I dislike, or repeated ignoring of my instructions.

That all being said, I do prefer to do my floors with friends - very few of whom are high ranks. Also, I find it impossible to teach "derps" if there are four of them on a team - it's simply too difficult for me to correct their mistakes and key at the same time. With one or two however, it becomes very manageable and I feel the "derp" gets a much better learning experience in any case.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AobwNC4SAkDGdHoydlJnWjNnbjBOZUhLcTBWYWVuNFE&hl=en#gid=0

 

have 20 fl's recorded ( my lazy self )

pure, you must name the bosses with a certain, exact spelling

otherwise the spreadsheet won't recognize the boss.

you can find the spellings on the nomenclature page

[Tipsi]

Does someone not letting me join their floors where they key count as discrimination?

 

just curious.. idm myself but just saying...

 

theres someone that wont take me because of my hex only weapon bind.

[ghjkl]

There is no rule about discrimination, a leader can reject anyone for any reason.

[green9090]

Does someone not letting me join their floors where they key count as discrimination?

 

just curious.. idm myself but just saying...

 

theres someone that wont take me because of my hex only weapon bind.

Your weapon bind is fairly limiting, so it's to be expected that some people wouldn't take you. There's even a disclaimer in the bind guidelines that says a keyer can not take you if they don't approve of your binds.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

There is no rule about discrimination, a leader can reject anyone for any reason.

but do it too much and it's not in the interests of the clan.

They right to do so might be there. But don't do it to the point of being destructive to the community.

[Obtaurian]

There seems to be this huge misconception in regard to how we do things.

 

- More often than not, it's very difficult for a keyer to be teaching while keying (they can't even see the team most of the time - how in the world are they supposed to point out mistakes?).

- Because of this, keyers are encouraged to take wingmen or other keyers who can keep the "newbs" in line, so to speak. I personally prefer to take no more than two less-experienced dungeoneers at a time.

- The goal of DGS is not to be cuddly and nice. The best way to learn to do fast floors is to do them. Once you learn to react and do things quickly, THEN you start learning the little things that shave even more time off floors. But first and foremost, you must learn initiative.

 

I don't know what exactly you were expecting, Ezkaton, but two isolated cases of questionable teams is hardly indicative of the attitudes or goals of the other 25 keyers or 150 DGSers. It doesn't help your argument that you admitted to AFKing in one of those floors without informing the team. Anyone - DGS, 148, 3BO, etc - would be angry.

 

Nothing has changed. We teach Tip.iters to be badass dungeoneers. Feel free to use 148 if it bothers you that much.

[Kietaro1]

So how does one join the ranks of DGS? I have been in the CC for days to no avail. Am I doing it wrong?

 

Oh and I have read most of this thread and the threads on TEF with no help towards joining teams. Where is that information posted other than the offhand 'join the cc' posted in this thread?

[ghjkl]

Start a team or wait for someone else to start a team

[Grimy_Bunyip]

So how does one join the ranks of DGS? I have been in the CC for days to no avail. Am I doing it wrong?

 

Oh and I have read most of this thread and the threads on TEF with no help towards joining teams. Where is that information posted other than the offhand 'join the cc' posted in this thread?

By rank do you mean recruit rank? or wingman/keyer rank.

[Kietaro1]

So how does one join the ranks of DGS? I have been in the CC for days to no avail. Am I doing it wrong?

 

Oh and I have read most of this thread and the threads on TEF with no help towards joining teams. Where is that information posted other than the offhand 'join the cc' posted in this thread?

By rank do you mean recruit rank? or wingman/keyer rank.

by rank i mean in the clan enough to see when floors are being done. The friend's chat does not get any chatter. Sick-talityy and i have been in there for days on and off and no one is ever there.

[ghjkl]

The friends chat is abandoned. Use the clan chat and join as a guest.

[Obtaurian]

Have you been in the DGS friends chat? Yeah, there's a player named DGS who is in no way associated with us. You're looking for the DGS CLAN chat.

[Andy]

We were planning on stealing his name, but then the clan chat update came so we had no need to do that. :grin:

[Kietaro1]

Have you been in the DGS friends chat? Yeah, there's a player named DGS who is in no way associated with us. You're looking for the DGS CLAN chat.

 

I have been in DGS.

 

 

DGS CLAN does not exist.

 

Wade, do you mind explaining that to me? All I get is things like I am not in a clan.

[Obtaurian]

Have you been in the DGS friends chat? Yeah, there's a player named DGS who is in no way associated with us. You're looking for the DGS CLAN chat.

 

I have been in DGS.

 

 

DGS CLAN does not exist.

 

Wade, do you mind explaining that to me? All I get is things like I am not in a clan.

 

You need to join the clan chat through the guest clan chat tab. I guarantee you it exists. ;)

 

EDIT: You thought I meant "DGS CLAN" clan chat? No, type in "DGS" in the guest clan chat tab. Bam, you're in.

[Kietaro1]

Have you been in the DGS friends chat? Yeah, there's a player named DGS who is in no way associated with us. You're looking for the DGS CLAN chat.

 

I have been in DGS.

 

 

DGS CLAN does not exist.

 

Wade, do you mind explaining that to me? All I get is things like I am not in a clan.

 

You need to join the clan chat through the guest clan chat tab. I guarantee you it exists. ;)

 

AHHHH it is called visited clan chat. I got it though. Thanks.

 

*feels like an idiot*

[Gwasha]

geomancer is a [bleep]

 

 

Thanks man. Fun floor

 

Edit: We are pr0s