Dungeonsweepers (DGS) - Huge changes; read first post.

[Michael]

Fine, we aren't changing anything. The requirements are there, take them or leave them. If you don't like it you can leave. No skin off my nose.

[Andy]

If someone leaves the clan because of ring tier requirements, do you think they would have stayed past when they have all their chaotics? Chicken, you're thinking of someone who is in Dgs just for their chaotics and not to learn. Like has been said by multiple people, Dgs is not a place for those people. We're here to teach people to become better at dungeeoneering. I don't think adding more extensive ring requirements is too much - 25% is not really a whole load of tokens when you can get a chaotic in 10 hours or so.

[IHasChicken]

Fine, we aren't changing anything. The requirements are there, take them or leave them. If you don't like it you can leave. No skin off my nose.

 

It's not that I don't like them. I'm striving to follow them myself, even in my circumstances.

 

And I'm not just arguing for the sake of arguing, I think that trying to teach things such as knowing what critical paths are, killing order, the basic elements of all of the puzzles, how to key, and other dungeoneering fundamentals are far more important than excluding people just on the basis of their ring.

 

I don't care if you don't even use it, or care about it, but I'll make a rewards list and a suggested order, mainly for my own reference. If you choose to use it, great, if you don't, fine.

[IHasChicken]

If someone leaves the clan because of ring tier requirements, do you think they would have stayed past when they have all their chaotics? Chicken, you're thinking of someone who is in Dgs just for their chaotics and not to learn. Like has been said by multiple people, Dgs is not a place for those people. We're here to teach people to become better at dungeeoneering. I don't think adding more extensive ring requirements is too much - 25% is not really a whole load of tokens when you can get a chaotic in 10 hours or so.

 

You're also expecting people to just magically come into DGS and want to learn.

 

When I came into DGS, I admit, it was back when the clan was FIRST starting and Dungeoneering was relatively new, and I was merely looking for a place to get a rapier and then frosts. But Dungeoneering captivated me, and I enjoyed the atmosphere, so i've continued.

 

People can change. You can change people's minds by showing them that DGS ISN'T a drag like 117/148, and this will motivate them far more than any strict guidelines will.

 

It's easy to teach someone who wants to learn. It's far more satisfying to take someone who doesn't want to learn, and to convince them that they should come around to your way of thinking.

 

It's your choice, but I wouldn't like it if DGS suddenly became ultra-elitist.

 

Not much I can do thouogh.

[Andy]

If someone leaves the clan because of ring tier requirements, do you think they would have stayed past when they have all their chaotics? Chicken, you're thinking of someone who is in Dgs just for their chaotics and not to learn. Like has been said by multiple people, Dgs is not a place for those people. We're here to teach people to become better at dungeeoneering. I don't think adding more extensive ring requirements is too much - 25% is not really a whole load of tokens when you can get a chaotic in 10 hours or so.

 

You're also expecting people to just magically come into DGS and want to learn.

 

When I came into DGS, I admit, it was back when the clan was FIRST starting and Dungeoneering was relatively new, and I was merely looking for a place to get a rapier and then frosts. But Dungeoneering captivated me, and I enjoyed the atmosphere, so i've continued.

 

People can change. You can change people's minds by showing them that DGS ISN'T a drag like 117/148, and this will motivate them far more than any strict guidelines will.

 

It's easy to teach someone who wants to learn. It's far more satisfying to take someone who doesn't want to learn, and to convince them that they should come around to your way of thinking.

 

It's your choice, but I wouldn't like it if DGS suddenly became ultra-elitist.

 

Not much I can do thouogh.

 

Ring tier requirements are ultra-elitist? :blink:

Most people going into dgs - like dark abyss28 - are aware of what our goals are and how we work before they enter the cc. I think i'd be correct in saying that the majority of people in dgs are here to learn & get better.

[xpx]

Chicken, please, the arguement is over. You are only hurting your cause right now.

 

The fact is, everything in the dgs guidelines isn't just loosely scribbled there for no apparent reason- we work very hard researching things about dungeoneering and we do think our superior knowledge in the subject should reflect on that, and people who do not meet the requirements just aren't dgs material. If you do think the guidelines do not meet with your personal vision of dungeoneering, the clan likely isn't for you(and it's very offensive to think we'd make guidelines to hurt the cause).

[SirHartlar]

I haven't used DGS in a while because I stopped to skill and also because of exam pressures etc, I want to come back after my exams but I don't have any tokens for the rings right now. I'm 83 Dung with T7 Berserker, I will easily be able to get the tokens when I come back because it's only like 450k xp to get them but I will be out of the transitional period because my exams don't finish till the end of the month and I still haven't finished my goal of all 80+. Will I still be able to do floors with DGS to get the tokens or will I need to go to 117/148 until I meet the requirements again?

[CharlieBrown]

I haven't used DGS in a while because I stopped to skill and also because of exam pressures etc, I want to come back after my exams but I don't have any tokens for the rings right now. I'm 83 Dung with T7 Berserker, I will easily be able to get the tokens when I come back because it's only like 450k xp to get them but I will be out of the transitional period because my exams don't finish till the end of the month and I still haven't finished my goal of all 80+. Will I still be able to do floors with DGS to get the tokens or will I need to go to 117/148 until I meet the requirements again?

 

Yes you can still use DGS to get your ring

Just get it ASAP :)

We're not saying IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE RINGS YOU CANNOT DUNGEONEER WITH US

We're just saying; get the rings before you spend your tokens on other crap

We understand you may not have the tokens right now and exams are approaching

[IHasChicken]

If someone leaves the clan because of ring tier requirements, do you think they would have stayed past when they have all their chaotics? Chicken, you're thinking of someone who is in Dgs just for their chaotics and not to learn. Like has been said by multiple people, Dgs is not a place for those people. We're here to teach people to become better at dungeeoneering. I don't think adding more extensive ring requirements is too much - 25% is not really a whole load of tokens when you can get a chaotic in 10 hours or so.

 

You're also expecting people to just magically come into DGS and want to learn.

 

When I came into DGS, I admit, it was back when the clan was FIRST starting and Dungeoneering was relatively new, and I was merely looking for a place to get a rapier and then frosts. But Dungeoneering captivated me, and I enjoyed the atmosphere, so i've continued.

 

People can change. You can change people's minds by showing them that DGS ISN'T a drag like 117/148, and this will motivate them far more than any strict guidelines will.

 

It's easy to teach someone who wants to learn. It's far more satisfying to take someone who doesn't want to learn, and to convince them that they should come around to your way of thinking.

 

It's your choice, but I wouldn't like it if DGS suddenly became ultra-elitist.

 

Not much I can do thouogh.

 

Ring tier requirements are ultra-elitist? :blink:

Most people going into dgs - like dark abyss28 - are aware of what our goals are and how we work before they enter the cc. I think i'd be correct in saying that the majority of people in dgs are here to learn & get better.

 

No, the ring requirements are fine, I actually feel that the 102 and 106 requirements should actually be a little lower, as once you've gone past 100 Dungeoneering, you're really making a commitment and having any less than 2 t10 rings just means you're saving tokens for no good reason. I think it's always good to have a learning curve, and by making the lower end requirements a little less harsh, and the higher ones a little more, you'll filter out the true people who want to stay and learn from the people who don't.

 

I guess it was the seemingly cut-throat attitude of filtering out people that I was questioning, but as it's been outlined time and time again, it is not my place to question this.

 

Regardless, it's fine. I do think anyway (and have thought this for a while,) that DGS currently is lacking a token management section anyway - what to spend your initial tokens on (e.g. ring upgrades, crucial rewards such as the Scroll of Life and Cleansing, EXP for prestige,) as well as what to not spend them on (Chaotic Longswords, Law Staves and Sneakerpeepers), and a complete breakdown of where all of the rewards are useful, and where they aren't. There's no point ignoring rewards - they are a big part of Dungeoneering, and helping people to make informed decisions is quite important.

 

This will also become ever more important after the impending update of additional rewards to use INSIDE Daemonheim (if Jagex actually delivers *cough* Eye of the Warrior *cough*), so I think it is an area that could be expanded upon.

 

I'll even tailor it so it incorporates your ring customization requirements, so people know exactly how many tokens they need to spend on their ring at a certain level, and the benefits of doing so.

 

I guess that was my biggest problem with the requirements - they seemed quite arbitrary and random to me, with a very loose pattern and little reasoning behind them other than them indicating your dungeoneering "attitude". Xpx, you say you have evidence behind them, and that's fine, but maybe this token management guide can provide some additional reasoning and make them a little clearer.

[xpx]

DGS is for people who don't dungeoneer for the rewards, so adding a section about rewards is more or less counterproductive. Players can do whatever they want, but until 106 dungeoneering, we expect them to contribute 25% of their tokens to ring upgrades- that's 6,75% at 120 and less than 4% at 200m. Not too much to ask when you consider you get dungeons with the quality of 110+ dungeoneering clans and actually get to learn something.

 

As said, this topic has been discussed VERY thoroughly between the ranks and this isn't just something Jimi came up with half-drunk not having sex with his GF.

 

And to show that we(well, me) too are making an effort:

Amazingly i'd still hadn't got it(got t10 berserker at ~101 dg) as i've spent over 1.5m tokens in xp, but as i already had the tokens i might aswell show good gamesmanship.

[IHasChicken]

DGS is for people who don't dungeoneer for the rewards, so adding a section about rewards is more or less counterproductive. Players can do whatever they want, but until 106 dungeoneering, we expect them to contribute 25% of their tokens to ring upgrades- that's 6,75% at 120 and less than 4% at 200m. Not too much to ask when you consider you get dungeons with the quality of 110+ dungeoneering clans and actually get to learn something.

 

As said, this topic has been discussed VERY thoroughly between the ranks and this isn't just something Jimi came up with half-drunk not having sex with her GF.

 

That's all well and good, but players who aren't informed about what rewards are good and what ones are bad will tend to want to get all of them to try them out, lie about their rings, and then just BS you.

 

Leaving the whole ring debate behind us - it's over now, the requirements won't be changed - if you TELL people what is good, and what is complete and utter trash, they won't feel like they need as many tokens to experiment and try everything, and hence they'll feel better about using their limited tokens on their ring.

 

Plus when the new in-dungeon rewards are introduced, along with the ring upgrades and the existing rewards, the whole rewards hierarchy will shift, there will be a LOT of different options, and a clear system might be needed.

 

I don't see how this could be counterproductive in any way - helping people manage their tokens can only be good.

 

...this isn't just something Jimi came up with half-drunk not having sex with her GF.

 

[ghjkl]

You guys should stop going under the fantasy that dgs is some niche dung clan aiming to churn out pro dungers. Dgs has become the tipit dung clan. People from tipit go to dgs whether they want their chaotics or they want to get better. There is no way to filter out people coming to dgs based on their intentions unless you make it a 90+ req where people would already have most of their chaotics.

[Nifflin]

You guys should stop going under the fantasy that dgs is some niche dung clan aiming to churn out pro dungers. Dgs has become the tipit dung clan. People from tipit go to dgs whether they want their chaotics or they want to get better. There is no way to filter out people coming to dgs based on their intentions unless you make it a 90+ req where people would already have most of their chaotics.

 

Strict ring requirements do help though as they show an investment towards long term dungoneering.

[IHasChicken]

You guys should stop going under the fantasy that dgs is some niche dung clan aiming to churn out pro dungers. Dgs has become the tipit dung clan. People from tipit go to dgs whether they want their chaotics or they want to get better. There is no way to filter out people coming to dgs based on their intentions unless you make it a 90+ req where people would already have most of their chaotics.

 

Strict ring requirements do help though as they show an investment towards long term dungoneering.

 

Strict requirements, as in well-enforced, do help.

 

But harsh ones, as in, unreasonably high ones, may drive people away.

 

I don't know though, it's their prerogative as to how many people they want, and the quality of people they want.

[Andy]

You guys should stop going under the fantasy that dgs is some niche dung clan aiming to churn out pro dungers. Dgs has become the tipit dung clan. People from tipit go to dgs whether they want their chaotics or they want to get better. There is no way to filter out people coming to dgs based on their intentions unless you make it a 90+ req where people would already have most of their chaotics.

Perhaps if you dged with people outside of your small group of friends you'd see that actually, we are breeding pros. Look at almost anyone who has been in the cc for past a month now and you'll see just how much they improve. I've watched people go from being nooby level 80 dgers to extremely competent 115+ dgers (gwyn, for example.). Yes there are some people who use the cc and don't plan to dg longterm - but even they learn a lot while in the clan. Dgs is a tipit based clan so of course we have tipiters, duh.

[IHasChicken]

You guys should stop going under the fantasy that dgs is some niche dung clan aiming to churn out pro dungers. Dgs has become the tipit dung clan. People from tipit go to dgs whether they want their chaotics or they want to get better. There is no way to filter out people coming to dgs based on their intentions unless you make it a 90+ req where people would already have most of their chaotics.

Perhaps if you dged with people outside of your small group of friends you'd see that actually, we are breeding pros. Look at almost anyone who has been in the cc for past a month now and you'll see just how much they improve. I've watched people go from being nooby level 80 dgers to extremely competent 115+ dgers (gwyn, for example.). Yes there are some people who use the cc and don't plan to dg longterm - but even they learn a lot while in the clan. Dgs is a tipit based clan so of course we have tipiters, duh.

 

Trust me, I'm intending on doing that once Uni stops riding me.

 

I'll have a month off with nothing to do on RS but Nexing and DGing.

 

Considering learning to key in that month once I'm past 100 DG as well, we'll see.

[Jimmyw3000]

3 Points:

 

 

The main post could do with a "Last updated: DDMMYY" comment in the description, so users who don't browse this thread know when it's been updated. (Not just for the trivia, but for ring binds and other info too)

 

There needs to be a list of the weekly trivia available to the public, preferably in the front post so

[spoiler=Weekly Trivia]
[spoiler=Week of (This Week)]
Flesh
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Week of (Last week)]
Last Week's Info
[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]

would give something like this:

[spoiler=Weekly Trivia]

[spoiler=Week of (This Week)]

Flesh

 

 

 

[spoiler=Week of (Last week)]

Last Week's Info

 

 

 

 

 

It would maintain the trivia function, as well as allow new members to know the info of past weeks. Information like 'ferrets run diag then straight' is useless unless everybody knows, and people who werent part of DGS during that week will struggle to do a ferret puzzle. DGS prides itself in teaching newbies how to dung, yet a lot of the useful info isnt published anywhere prominent, and is hence, useless. On that note, the two linked guides aren't that good either, hopefully Chee will convince Obt to link that guide on safespotting ( http://forum.tip.it/topic/90018-advanced-monster-blocking-link-update-13-jan-2007-aow/ ) Though the diagonal thing is gone, the rest still works.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWPfcEOr2Yg

[Saradomin_Mage]

(gwyn, for example.)

I was higher DG than you before this clan was conceptualized, thanks very much <_<

[notasoupbowl]

@ Rare, I do agree that past trivia should be availiable in this thread.

There is an archieve of it in dungeonsweepers tif board for wing+ and on grimy's forums for anyone.

 

I personally don't think you should be posting someone else's guide here without their permission, although yes, it'd be nice if more people read good guides.

And on that subject me and toad have been doing some guides work, and will try and release advanced methods for things asap !

[Andy]

The only reason we don't have an archive on this thread is just to reduce the amount of clutter in the first post. We can always use michael's post on the front page as the place to host the weekly trivia archive - at the moment all it'll take is a copy+paste from tef/private boards.

[Jimmyw3000]

The only reason we don't have an archive on this thread is just to reduce the amount of clutter in the first post. We can always use michael's post on the front page as the place to host the weekly trivia archive - at the moment all it'll take is a copy+paste from tef/private boards.

i cant find the acrhive on TEF's forums. are you sure it's not in a private subsection there too?

[Obtaurian]

Rare, as soon as Michael gets online we'll turn the second post of the thread into the trivia archive. I'll also add a "last updated" tag. :thumbup:

 

As far as the monster blocking guide, though, I feel like too much of the information is outdated. It might get people confused. If Tui's up to it, she can probably make a short guide. We don't want to release too much guide-like material, though, as we're working on a massive dungeoneering guide/database as it is. This guide will also include combat mechanics (originally The Ancient was supposed to write a combat mechanics guide, but he's too busy these days).

 

I appreciate the suggestions. :thumbup:

 

EDIT: The first line of the first post now states the date of the last update. This should make it easy to decide whether or not you want to read the guidelines again that day. ;)

 

On second thought, I should probably just put it in the sub-title. D'oh.

 

Added it to the subtitle.

[Michael]

Updated 2nd post on the topic to say the current and past trivia.

[Jimmyw3000]

ty m8 :D

[3PointMan]

67 DG with just a T8 Berserker... I should probably stop upgrading just the zerker haha :P