TIF is bit over-moderated

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Unless significant changes have been made to the scripts posted on that thread, what you're saying is false.

You've yet to prove it, yet you're taking action without regards to that.

and there you go again deleting links in signatures without providing proof.

TheAncient was sent a detailed pm about exactly what was wrong with the scripts posted.

 

We've reiterated time and time again that if the offending scripts are removed, links will once again be allowed.

Ancient's also been inactive because of final exams.

Why would you send such critical information to only a single admin in the first place?

[obfuscator]

Unless significant changes have been made to the scripts posted on that thread, what you're saying is false.

You've yet to prove it, yet you're taking action without regards to that.

and there you go again deleting links in signatures without providing proof.

TheAncient was sent a detailed pm about exactly what was wrong with the scripts posted.

 

We've reiterated time and time again that if the offending scripts are removed, links will once again be allowed.

Ancient's also been inactive because of final exams.

Why would you send such critical information to only a single admin in the first place?

Probably because he was the first one who came to mind. If that's the case I'm sure it can be sent to you as well.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Unless significant changes have been made to the scripts posted on that thread, what you're saying is false.

You've yet to prove it, yet you're taking action without regards to that.

and there you go again deleting links in signatures without providing proof.

TheAncient was sent a detailed pm about exactly what was wrong with the scripts posted.

 

We've reiterated time and time again that if the offending scripts are removed, links will once again be allowed.

Ancient's also been inactive because of final exams.

Why would you send such critical information to only a single admin in the first place?

Probably because he was the first one who came to mind. If that's the case I'm sure it can be sent to you as well.

*and rocked

[DarkDude]

There are more rules than just that. And not all of them even meet that one.

 

The only legit button presses:

 

Move mouse x in one direction

Left Click

Right Click

 

*Anything that moves to a specific spot for example is against the rules.** Especially if you've got it looking for a certain icon :rolleyes:.

*Good thing that the functions on Grimy's forum move to random, not predefined/specific, positions. They move the mouse to anywhere within the item/button's width and height, not one given pixel.

 

**Funny, I was unaware that using an imagesearch on my PC was against RuneScape rules. Why exactly do you believe it's against Jagex's rules to locate the position of a button based on imagesearch? And there was one post that mentioned looking for icons which was followed by me saying, "No, I don't use icon/imagesearch."

 

All the functions on TEF use mathematical formulas to locate buttons and items, not icons.

 

And one last thing... You're telling me their has to be an action for moving the x of the mouse, and another for moving the y? Lol? Where do you get this stuff?

 

Moving +/- 5 pixels or whatever of a certain point, I wonder why you're doing that? It couldn't be to try and get around the macro detection would it?

 

Looking for a specific section of the screen then directing the mouse to this location doesn't seem fishy to you at all? One of your scripts also looks for ore colour I believe it was then clicks that, are you honestly telling me that's not macroing? This isn't including your buttons to click on quick pray (move and click in one button press, against the rules) and such things. Using any sort of method to locate something IS against the rules and doesn't matter if it complies with the other rules, it has to meet all of them. I can't believe you're trying to argue that moving the mouse to a certain point based on the content displayed on the screen is perfectly fine.

 

And to the last part, I never said that. A direction can be diagonal too ;).

 

Darkdude, it's come to my attention that you're making threats to members of efficionados via TIF PMs.

Would you care to stop doing that?

 

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Could you provide proof of these so called PMs? Or do you want to continue making ridiculous comments.

[Andy]

There are more rules than just that. And not all of them even meet that one.

 

The only legit button presses:

 

Move mouse x in one direction

Left Click

Right Click

 

*Anything that moves to a specific spot for example is against the rules.** Especially if you've got it looking for a certain icon :rolleyes:.

*Good thing that the functions on Grimy's forum move to random, not predefined/specific, positions. They move the mouse to anywhere within the item/button's width and height, not one given pixel.

 

**Funny, I was unaware that using an imagesearch on my PC was against RuneScape rules. Why exactly do you believe it's against Jagex's rules to locate the position of a button based on imagesearch? And there was one post that mentioned looking for icons which was followed by me saying, "No, I don't use icon/imagesearch."

 

All the functions on TEF use mathematical formulas to locate buttons and items, not icons.

 

And one last thing... You're telling me their has to be an action for moving the x of the mouse, and another for moving the y? Lol? Where do you get this stuff?

 

Moving +/- 5 pixels or whatever of a certain point, I wonder why you're doing that? It couldn't be to try and get around the macro detection would it?

 

Looking for a specific section of the screen then directing the mouse to this location doesn't seem fishy to you at all? One of your scripts also looks for ore colour I believe it was then clicks that, are you honestly telling me that's not macroing? This isn't including your buttons to click on quick pray (move and click in one button press, against the rules) and such things. Using any sort of method to locate something IS against the rules and doesn't matter if it complies with the other rules, it has to meet all of them. I can't believe you're trying to argue that moving the mouse to a certain point based on the content displayed on the screen is perfectly fine.

 

And to the last part, I never said that. A direction can be diagonal too ;).

 

Darkdude, it's come to my attention that you're making threats to members of efficionados via TIF PMs.

Would you care to stop doing that?

 

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Could you provide proof of these so called PMs? Or do you want to continue making ridiculous comments.

 

If you're so confident that it's within the rules I can go make a post about it on the player mod forums and they can look into it, I could even include your username so they know what to look at for an example of it happening. Because if you honestly think this isn't against the rules then you'll have no problem with me doing that.

 

I'm not going to do that as you are a decent poster here and to be honest you're lucky to have got a temporary ban thus far from these forums. Just try and not post about what you do there and in any screenshots just please crop it down so there's nothing incriminating showing, before someone actually does report you to Jagex and your account is banned. I am 100% certain (based on what you've described it as) IS against the rules and action can be taken against you

 

Looks like a threat to me.

 

I'll leave the ahk discussion to wicked so he can slap you with the vastly superior knowledge he has on the subject compared to your very little knowledge and misconceptions/ignorance.

[Nifflin]

Threats in PM? :shame:

 

Did we ever find out why Das left?

[Gandorf61]

Well if you take Wicked's guide for example it specifically says:

 

Many of these functions produce more then one action. If a function is producing more then one action, please abide by Jagex's one action per reaction rule and require the same amount of inputs to call the function.

 

So this is saying it's ok to be posting botting scripts as long as there's a disclaimer telling people they have to make them 1:1 themselves? That's like directing someone to a RWT site, telling them how to use it, and then saying they can't pay for gold as it doesn't fit within Jagex's rules.

[Andy]

Well if you take Wicked's guide for example it specifically says:

 

Many of these functions produce more then one action. If a function is producing more then one action, please abide by Jagex's one action per reaction rule and require the same amount of inputs to call the function.

 

So this is saying it's ok to be posting botting scripts as long as there's a disclaimer telling people they have to make them 1:1 themselves? That's like directing someone to a RWT site, telling them how to use it, and then saying they can't pay for gold as it doesn't fit within Jagex's rules.

do you even understand what a bot is

 

 

my god you people are idiots and are incredibly difficult to deal with when it comes to rules.

[Nifflin]

I would like to point out the following. I feel that the TIF moderation/admin staff are very prejudiced towards TEF.

 

This is because in the past sites such as RHQ and Zybez have had advertisements blatantly encouraging RWT (through ads) for every second that a user would be on their site. No actions were ever taken against them. RHQ and Zybez had links to RWT sites in their ads or they used to have those links. "CHEAP RS GOLD 1$ PER 1M BECOME A MILLIONAIR OVERNIGHT" encourages RWT and general rule-breaking more then a few isolated posts does.

 

As for encouraging botting Zybez has this thread where botting is very much encouraged in the form of many people advocating how it is better to bot skills for the user and for the game as a whole.

 

Links to these site have always been allowed.

 

Now TEF has a few posts that have "illegal" scrips and all links are blocked while in the past other sites that more blatently encouraged rule-breaking were allowed.

 

For some reason, TEF is the site that gets to set the precedent. How convenient.

[Kimberly]

Well if you take Wicked's guide for example it specifically says:

 

Many of these functions produce more then one action. If a function is producing more then one action, please abide by Jagex's one action per reaction rule and require the same amount of inputs to call the function.

 

So this is saying it's ok to be posting botting scripts as long as there's a disclaimer telling people they have to make them 1:1 themselves? That's like directing someone to a RWT site, telling them how to use it, and then saying they can't pay for gold as it doesn't fit within Jagex's rules.

do you even understand what a bot is

 

 

my god you people are idiots are incredibly difficult to deal with when it comes to rules.

 

To be fair, 'bot' and 'macro' are used almost interchangeable these days, as people generally associate it with the same things. I'm sure we can understand that and refrain from insulting each other, or being unnecessarily rude, from both staff and users.

 

It's like when people say NIC cards or integrated graphics cards.

 

I would like to point out the following. I feel that the TIF moderation/admin staff are very prejudiced towards TEF.

 

This is because in the past sites such as RHQ and Zybez have had advertisements... Links to these site have always been allowed.

 

I don't think it's meant to come across as bias or prejudice, but that is a very good point (honestly the type I wish was more present on this thread) and probably could be taken into consideration for possible revision on how we handle things like this. I'm sure someone like a more experienced Super or possibly an Admin can give more insight on this in the meantime though.

[DarkDude]

There are more rules than just that. And not all of them even meet that one.

 

The only legit button presses:

 

Move mouse x in one direction

Left Click

Right Click

 

*Anything that moves to a specific spot for example is against the rules.** Especially if you've got it looking for a certain icon :rolleyes:.

*Good thing that the functions on Grimy's forum move to random, not predefined/specific, positions. They move the mouse to anywhere within the item/button's width and height, not one given pixel.

 

**Funny, I was unaware that using an imagesearch on my PC was against RuneScape rules. Why exactly do you believe it's against Jagex's rules to locate the position of a button based on imagesearch? And there was one post that mentioned looking for icons which was followed by me saying, "No, I don't use icon/imagesearch."

 

All the functions on TEF use mathematical formulas to locate buttons and items, not icons.

 

And one last thing... You're telling me their has to be an action for moving the x of the mouse, and another for moving the y? Lol? Where do you get this stuff?

 

Moving +/- 5 pixels or whatever of a certain point, I wonder why you're doing that? It couldn't be to try and get around the macro detection would it?

 

Looking for a specific section of the screen then directing the mouse to this location doesn't seem fishy to you at all? One of your scripts also looks for ore colour I believe it was then clicks that, are you honestly telling me that's not macroing? This isn't including your buttons to click on quick pray (move and click in one button press, against the rules) and such things. Using any sort of method to locate something IS against the rules and doesn't matter if it complies with the other rules, it has to meet all of them. I can't believe you're trying to argue that moving the mouse to a certain point based on the content displayed on the screen is perfectly fine.

 

And to the last part, I never said that. A direction can be diagonal too ;).

 

Darkdude, it's come to my attention that you're making threats to members of efficionados via TIF PMs.

Would you care to stop doing that?

 

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Could you provide proof of these so called PMs? Or do you want to continue making ridiculous comments.

 

If you're so confident that it's within the rules I can go make a post about it on the player mod forums and they can look into it, I could even include your username so they know what to look at for an example of it happening. Because if you honestly think this isn't against the rules then you'll have no problem with me doing that.

 

I'm not going to do that as you are a decent poster here and to be honest you're lucky to have got a temporary ban thus far from these forums. Just try and not post about what you do there and in any screenshots just please crop it down so there's nothing incriminating showing, before someone actually does report you to Jagex and your account is banned. I am 100% certain (based on what you've described it as) IS against the rules and action can be taken against you

 

Looks like a threat to me.

 

I'll leave the ahk discussion to wicked so he can slap you with the vastly superior knowledge he has on the subject compared to your very little knowledge and misconceptions/ignorance.

 

That quote was from a year ago now? If not more. Wicked was posting information about his scripts here, he was arguing that it was against the rules. I simply said if he's so certain it's against the rules he'd have no problem with it being posted would he? If it's fine then nothing would happen :). Not a threat at all, just simply stating the facts. Nor was the latter, I don't want to go into details but based on his previous posts he was lucky we hadn't taken further action against him previously.

 

Also, having to dig pretty deep, bringing up a year old PM not at all related to this? lol. Or did Wicked forget to mention that fact.

[Gandorf61]

Well if you take Wicked's guide for example it specifically says:

 

Many of these functions produce more then one action. If a function is producing more then one action, please abide by Jagex's one action per reaction rule and require the same amount of inputs to call the function.

 

So this is saying it's ok to be posting scripts that break the 1:1 function rule as long as there's a disclaimer telling people they have to make them 1:1 themselves? That's like directing someone to a RWT site, telling them how to use it, and then saying they can't pay for gold as it doesn't fit within Jagex's rules.

do you even understand what a bot is

 

 

my god you people are idiots and are incredibly difficult to deal with when it comes to rules.

 

Ok so I worded that poorly I admit, because they aren't botting scripts exactly but they still do more than one action per input the way they are presented don't they?

[Andy]

Removing a script that's perfectly legal - Good job tif moderation - It really shows how much knowledge you have on the subject that you're moderating on. Get educated on the rules you're enforcing before you remove things that are within the rules.

 

 

Edit: to make it clear to the normal users that didn't see my previous post that was removed about 3 minutes after me posting it: I posted a script that is COMPLETELY WITHIN jagex's set out rules and it has been removed. It was a response to gandorf's post & it explained how wicked's functions can be used for perfectly legal scripts.

Oh, I had the post open in another tab: here it is-

 

Here's a perfectly legal script using wickeds functions: They are not bots at all. I used this for my herblore levels and i'd happily have it posted on the player mod forums (although i'd probably be in some trouble due to ignorant mods such as darkdude.)

 

[hide=perfectly legal script goes here]removed by tipit mods[/hide]

[DarkDude]

You think a script which calls a function which moves the mouse to a specific place then clicks with just one button press is perfectly legit? Really?

[Nifflin]

Yep, according to the 1:1 rule it is.

 

Some people play on touchscreens you know?

[DarkDude]

Movement of the mouse is one output. Clicking is another. That's 1:2.

 

It does not do both simultaneously.

 

You are not using a touch screen to do that, plus touchscreens technically have multiple inputs ;).

 

Not to mention moving to a specific inventory square itself is against the rules.

[Nifflin]

Nope, that function imitates the advantage that people playing on a touchscreen have. On a touchscreen people wouldn't use a mouse. You should read up on the latest in technology.

 

And for all you know I might be playing on one, I just use that function when I swap to my desktop.

 

Edit: Because I have that advantage, it should be available to everyone. Cheezedude and Wicked are kind enough to give up their time trying to provide that same advantage to people who can't afford a touchscreen.

[muuuuuuuuuu]

So I assume it is given that Mousekeys is legal.

So this AHK script, for faster dropping, which emulates Mousekeys, is legal.

[hide]

F6::Click Right
F7::Mousemove,0,37,0,R
F8::Click

[/hide]

It is 1 input: 1 output: 1 input: 1 output: 1 input: 1 output, exactly like you would get from mousekeys.

 

What this does, is, instead of moving to an absolute position, it just moves the mouse down 37 pixels, a relative position.

 

Not to mention moving to a specific inventory square itself is against the rules.

 

This says you think moving the mouse to an absolute position on the screen is against the rules.

 

But let's say you had a way to determine the location on the screen of a specific inventory square,which is doable, since the inventory is always the same size. You would have to make a slight change for using resizable over fixed mode, but otherwise that's not hard.

 

You could then calculate the relative distances between where your mouse currently is, and where that inventory square is.

 

[hide]

F6::Click Right
F7::{
MouseGetPos X,Y
X1,Y1=GetPositionOfInventorySquare(1,1)
dX=X1-X
dY=Y1-Y
MouseMove,dX,dY,0,R
}
F8::Click

[/hide]

Note that this code DOES NOT WORK since I have not appropriately defined a GetPositionOfInventorSquare function.

However, the only difference between this and the Mousekeys emulation script is here it calculates where it needs to move the mouse, but still uses a relative mouse movement, not an absolute mouse movment.

 

Edit: If you would like, I could try and write such a function to complete this example.

 

The problem I imagine you will have there is it's using the mouse's current location on the screen to help the script find where to move.

 

In that case, let's say at some point you're doing herblore, and after withdrawing the stuff you need and closing the bank window, you want to move the mouse to the top leftmost inventory square. You know where your mouse is at the start, and you know to where you want to move it. Playing Runescape in Fixed mode that square is about 100 to the right and 200 pixels below the "X" to close the bank window, so the following script would accomplish your goal:

 

[hide]

F6::Click
F7::Mousemove,100,-200,0,R
F8::Click

[/hide]

 

The only difference between this and Mousekeys is instead of moving 0,-37, it moves 100,-200, while still maintaining one input: one output, and moving to a specific inventory square, so I fail to see why "moving to a specific inventory square" is against the rules.

[DarkDude]

So I assume it is given that Mousekeys is legal.

So this AHK script, for faster dropping, which emulates Mousekeys, is legal.

[hide]

F6::Click Right
F7::Mousemove,0,37,0,R
F8::Click

[/hide]

It is 1 input: 1 output: 1 input: 1 output: 1 input: 1 output, exactly like you would get from mousekeys.

 

What this does, is, instead of moving to an absolute position, it just moves the mouse down 37 pixels, a relative position.

 

Not to mention moving to a specific inventory square itself is against the rules.

 

This says you think moving the mouse to an absolute position on the screen is against the rules.

 

But let's say you had a way to determine the location on the screen of a specific inventory square,which is doable, since the inventory is always the same size. You would have to make a slight change for using resizable over fixed mode, but otherwise that's not hard.

 

You could then calculate the relative distances between where your mouse currently is, and where that inventory square is.

 

[hide]

F6::Click Right
F7::{
MouseGetPos X,Y
X1,Y1=GetPositionOfInventorySquare(1,1)
dX=X1-X
dY=Y1-Y
MouseMove,dX,dY,0,R
}
F8::Click

[/hide]

Note that this code DOES NOT WORK since I have not appropriately defined a GetPositionOfInventorSquare function.

However, the only difference between this and the Mousekeys emulation script is here it calculates where it needs to move the mouse, but still uses a relative mouse movement, not an absolute mouse movment.

 

The problem I imagine you will have there is it's using the mouse's current location on the screen to help the script find where to move.

 

In that case, let's say at some point you're doing herblore, and after withdrawing the stuff you need and closing the bank window, you want to move the mouse to the top leftmost inventory square. You know where your mouse is at the start, and you know to where you want to move it. Playing Runescape in Fixed mode that square is about 100 to the right and 200 pixels below the "X" to close the bank window, so the following script would accomplish your goal:

 

[hide]

F6::Click
F7::Mousemove,100,-200,0,R
F8::Click

[/hide]

 

The only difference between this and Mousekeys is instead of moving 0,-37, it moves 100,-200, while still maintaining one input: one output, and moving to a specific inventory square, so I fail to see why "moving to a specific inventory square" is against the rules.

 

Thank you for actually making a reasonable post about this :thumbup:.

 

While what you said is true that is possible to setup a similar effect with the move command rather than moving to it's not the same. Moving to a specific point no matter where your mouse currently isn't the same as moving a specific number of spaces to get to that space. Not only would one produce "random" variables within it and the other wouldn't (without variance coded into it). If you try and use the example you provided anywhere else it would not function correctly.

 

That's the difference, you're not really automating the process with moving it a specific number in one direction, however you're moving to that specific point from ANYWHERE else.

 

I've explained that really badly I know, just got back home after a very long week of work but hopefully it makes enough sense. Need rest now ;).

[das]

Here's a brilliant concept: Forward said code on to the Tip.it Jagex Liaison as part our "platinum" ranking and get an official statement that can be deemed/illegal or not.

 

It's an email away still right? The people in support are not authorities on Macro's and Neither is anyone in the Administration as we are players to or at least that seems to be how the users feel, so I don't think it should be too difficult to get an official statement.

 

 

I'd do it myself but that would make me a bad boy ;)

[Kimberly]

Edit: Because I have that advantage, it should be available to everyone. Cheezedude and Wicked are kind enough to give up their time trying to provide that same advantage to people who can't afford a touchscreen.

 

I see that as more of an issue with Jagex who has not maintained their standards with current technology rather than Tip.it's. If a fansite chooses to enforce the rules of the game it's about, if the rules of the game have not changed to meet current standards of technology and people are still actively punished for such things, and if they choose to do so out of the interest of protecting their users I don't see much of an alternative in this situation, as sad as that is.

 

While a script like this might have legitimate uses as you've described, it can still be used to break the rules. That seems to be the line that Jagex has drawn, and in the interest of the community that both users and staff work together to maintain, it seems to be the line we must follow as well.

[Andy]

Here's a brilliant concept: Forward said code on to the Tip.it Jagex Liaison as part our "platinum" ranking and get an official statement that can be deemed/illegal or not.

 

It's an email away still right? The people in support are not authorities on Macro's and Neither is anyone in the Administration as we are players too, so I don't think it should be too difficult to get an official statement

:thumbup:

^

That's how you get things done. Don't rely on forum posts that are still in the gray area and up to debate, use your apparent connections to jagex to confirm/deny these things.

[Soma2035]

Edit: Because I have that advantage, it should be available to everyone. Cheezedude and Wicked are kind enough to give up their time trying to provide that same advantage to people who can't afford a touchscreen.

 

I see that as more of an issue with Jagex who has not maintained their standards with current technology rather than Tip.it's. If a fansite chooses to enforce the rules of the game it's about, if the rules of the game have not changed to meet current standards of technology and people are still actively punished for such things, and if they choose to do so out of the interest of protecting their users I don't see much of an alternative.

 

Who's been actively punished for using a touchscreen, or touchscreen emulating script?

[Kimberly]

or touchscreen emulating script?

 

By my understanding of a touchscreen emulating script and the posts here explaining in detail the actions performed, I would have to say that using it could endanger your account of being banned, temporarily or otherwise. (In-game, of course.) I do not claim to be an expert in its usage, only the guidelines that have been outlined for staff to follow and the understanding of the (summary in this case) rules as laid out by Jagex indicate that references to said script would be best removed.

 

E: Fixed an incomplete sentence, d'oh.

[DarkDude]

Jagex have been contacted regarding the scripts (with examples provided) and yes, they confirmed that is against the rules.

 

You're also acting like that's the only point of contention about the scripts also, there's lots more wrong with some of them than just moving to a specific point.