Is anyone else just completely disappointed with everyone?

[SirIzenhime]

In the end, it all boils down to letting people play the game as they wish. If someone gave bad advice, give better advice, and then OP will decide what he does. Advice is only better if he decides it's better.

 

^missed the whole point of the thread

[All_Is_Great]

We would like to further the stance of those leaving stance on this matter.

There has been a lot of trolling that has occured on our behalf.

The first note is the bladewing memorial.

This was incited by Green, who was not a part of the negotiations between the admins and those leaving.

However, Jimmy Jim immediately locked the thread, and changed the title of several blogs in reaction.

Furthermore, the Admins began accusing us of protesting against them even though Green did not even know there were negotiations going on in private.

We personally took this a bad way. We're in the middle of negotiations and the administrators immediately start accusing us for that we did not start.

 

You make us sound like this big united efficiency community. It's really really really hard to keep tabs on everybody at the same time.

 

But we continued negotiating in spite of the blogscape event.

But eventually the admins lost interest and nobody spoke on the private discussion for several days. We were rather impatient that the Admins simply did not care enough to contribute further to the discussion.

 

Ultimately our patience broke when xpx and ancient were banned for unjust reasons. Things spiralled out of control. We decided to leave, and we informed VERY EXPLICITLY to everybody we could contact in time, to avoid trolling. The requests to stop trolling are still up in both our Skype logs and in our new forum.

BUT we can't contact everybody at once. And ultimately Levon ended up spamming porn over the boards, but was lectured about it after the fact. Our party has no interest in needless flaming. But considering the grievances, and our limited ability to micromanage every last individual that supports us, it was ultimately inevitable.

 

We would like to ask anybody else that supports those leaving TIF to do so with discretion. Flaming and trolling will do neither part any good in this scenario.

 

If this is true, then I hope, for your sake, that you take note of the people who are migrating to your new board and watch them closely.

 

I agree. Although it is nice of you to shed some light on this matter.

 

I won't comment on whether or not the bans were "just".

 

It was sad however some of those from your community decided to troll TIF to no end.

 

EDIT: I just want to add when you want to leave, then just do that.

[Omar]

You know what would be cool? If you guys stuck around, made your points as reasonably as you've been doing as of late, and were okay with people playing the way they wanted to. Sure, the staff doesn't play Runescape much, but frankly I don't see what that changes here.

And if you get flamed, just brush it off. Let the haters hate and watch the money pile up. That's what makes you happy, right, not approval from other posters?

 

In the end, it all boils down to letting people play the game as they wish. If someone gave bad advice, give better advice, and then OP will decide what he does. Advice is only better if he decides it's better.

 

^missed the whole point of the thread

Have I? Why?

[Golvellius]

In the end, it all boils down to letting people play the game as they wish. If someone gave bad advice, give better advice, and then OP will decide what he does. Advice is only better if he decides it's better.

 

^missed the whole point of the thread

What was it then, because I'm at a loss?

All I saw was an efficiency troll thread, the usual go around, alot of butthurt, a bunch of attacks on mods, some bans, and a few people packing it up so they can go preach to their chior.

[obfuscator]

I've mostly stayed out of this topic (as interesting as it is) but let me say that if all of the users in question were as fair and reasonable as both the DGS posters here then there would be no problem.

 

We also do accept that you cannot be held responsible for things your supporters do without your consent, and we appreciate that you are attempting to make your transition off these forums as smooth as possible for everyone involved.

 

EDIT: I also want to add that if anyone has any questions about our procedures, or anything else, you're welcome to send me a pm and I'll do my best to give you a satisfactory answer :)

[sees_all1]

I didn't realize you needed to play runescape to be able to delete spam from a forum. :rolleyes:

 

I'd be more inclined to be sympathetic if certain people didn't spam it up. Good riddance.

[IHasChicken]

I didn't realize you needed to play runescape to be able to delete spam from a forum. :rolleyes:

 

I'd be more inclined to be sympathetic if certain people didn't spam it up. Good riddance.

 

The problem is, the party in question aren't protesting the deletion of spam. They agree that anyone can do that, it's just that when the moderators misconstrue advice as trolling/spamming, then they go to the argument that the moderators aren't active.

 

Nonetheless, I would like to stress that this topic is NOT ABOUT THE REASONS WHY THESE PEOPLE ARE LEAVING. There are plenty of topics about this already

 

It is to do with the actions of the moderators and of the people leaving themselves. You can have the most valid point in the world, (and don't get me wrong, I think BOTH sides have right and valid points,) but when you go about implementing it in the wrong way, it doesn't matter how right your point is.

[All_Is_Great]

I didn't realize you needed to play runescape to be able to delete spam from a forum. :rolleyes:

 

I'd be more inclined to be sympathetic if certain people didn't spam it up. Good riddance.

 

The problem is, the party in question aren't protesting the deletion of spam. They agree that anyone can do that, it's just that when the moderators misconstrue advice as trolling/spamming, then they go to the argument that the moderators aren't active.

 

But what if the advice was genuine, just the user did not know/ care about up to date methods?

 

Like if someone asked for melee exp, the guy advises bandits, is that trolling? I don't think so, but from what I gathered from the "efficiency trolls" thread, it would be labled as. What astonishes me even more is when a guy asks "how should I make money with my stats?" and OP has like 30 dg, and gets responded with "get 85 dg and do frosts". That should also count as trolling shouldn't it, because it doesn't help the OP in any way.

 

Truth is, it's hard to tell exactly which advice is trolling and which isn't. If you think a post is obviously trolling, then it should appear obvious to most people as well, and as a result, it gets ignored.

[SirIzenhime]

In the end, it all boils down to letting people play the game as they wish. If someone gave bad advice, give better advice, and then OP will decide what he does. Advice is only better if he decides it's better.

 

^missed the whole point of the thread

What was it then, because I'm at a loss?

All I saw was an efficiency troll thread, the usual go around, alot of butthurt, a bunch of attacks on mods, some bans, and a few people packing it up so they can go preach to their chior.

 

read the OPs first post, and you'll know the point of this thread :rolleyes:

[GoldTatze]

:thumbsup:

[tripsis]

I would like to apologize on behalf of the entire staff for everything that happened. Mistakes were made on both sides but in short, this has all blown way out of proportion and has become so much more than we anticipated (and probably same goes for the other side, but I cannot speak for them). We always try to be as accommodating as possible and we were (and still are) willing to listen to any and all issues. All we ask for is calmness and respect.

 

Before all of this happened, we were in the process of figuring out some of the requests that were made, such as creating a new forum for research/efficiency and making some changes to Help & Advice. We do apologize if there was some lack of or miscommunication. We are still open to these ideas but it is important to understand that things like this can't happen in a heartbeat. As admins of such a large forum we have to consider more than just creating a forum, which takes seconds. We have to consider policies, rules (or lackthereof) and communicating with our moderators.

 

We are doing our best to reflect on the entire situation and figure things out. All we ask is that you guys be respectful. Spamming and harassing our moderators does nothing to help anyone.

[Hamtaro]

This is why I'm always hesitant to post anymore. Every time I post, someone wants to start an argument. I then feel obliged to stay on to argue for hours and loathe returning when I do get the chance to sneak out of a flame war. I come to these forums for top-quality information and to discuss specific elements of the game we play. Calling me an idiot for enjoying the game a different way than you =/= discussion. It's not trolling either; just being a pompous jerk for no good reason.

 

If I want the best method to duo Dungeoneering with my brother, I want the best tips to duo. I don't need a totally irrelevant response of playing with four incompetent/annoying strangers while receiving no answers to my actual question and being called an idiot for not wanting to play their way (which I had already mentioned I couldn't stand). An argument does NOT need to be made over that, but this community makes it happen.

 

On a better note, I would like to also take this opportunity to apologize to anyone I may have offended at any point in any threads related to this. I have good intentions, but become very frustrated when I explain myself, people don't read what I just said, and reply with something I already discussed/debunked (and reply with about 2 unrelated sentences containing pure flaming). It's not my intention to continue these arguments, but when the difference between opinion and fact can't be understood, that is where I draw the line for my tolerance of others. Then when I try to ignore a user's posting unrelated garbage as a reply, one of his friends will jump in to ask, "Why are you ignoring _____?!?!" I don't know, following the rules perhaps? I am here because I want to provide others with useful information and be helped by other users, not argue over nothing.

 

EDIT: Another thing that probably doesn't help is when users like to end posts with that roll-eyes smiley. You don't directly call the other person an idiot, but it's the same to me. I'm not going to lie and say I haven't done that before, but it's really unnecessary.

[IHasChicken]

This is why I'm always hesitant to post anymore. Every time I post, someone wants to start an argument. I then feel obliged to stay on to argue for hours and loathe returning when I do get the chance to sneak out of a flame war. I come to these forums for top-quality information and to discuss specific elements of the game we play. Calling me an idiot for enjoying the game a different way than you =/= discussion. It's not trolling either; just being a pompous jerk for no good reason.

 

If I want the best method to duo Dungeoneering with my brother, I want the best tips to duo. I don't need a totally irrelevant response of playing with four incompetent/annoying strangers while receiving no answers to my actual question and being called an idiot for not wanting to play their way (which I had already mentioned I couldn't stand). An argument does NOT need to be made over that, but this community makes it happen.

 

On a better note, I would like to also take this opportunity to apologize to anyone I may have offended at any point in any threads related to this. I have good intentions, but become very frustrated when I explain myself, people don't read what I just said, and reply with something I already discussed/debunked (and reply with about 2 unrelated sentences containing pure flaming). It's not my intention to continue these arguments, but when the difference between opinion and fact can't be understood, that is where I draw the line for my tolerance of others. Then when I try to ignore a user's posting unrelated garbage as a reply, one of his friends will jump in to ask, "Why are you ignoring _____?!?!" I don't know, following the rules perhaps? I am here because I want to provide others with useful information and be helped by other users, not argue over nothing.

 

Again, it is all well and good to want to go off topic and talk about efficiency vs. fun, whether the moderators were right or wrong, anything you want, but this topic really isn't about this.

 

It is about the way in which this was all carried out by the moderators and the parties in questions, and their behaviours limited to the past few days, not all of their posts they've ever made ever.

 

No one will win in these sorts of arguments, as there are two or more sides to all of these issues, but what I think most, if not all people agree upon is that the actions of both the moderators and posters were WRONG. Not their point. Their ACTIONS.

[Omar]

read the OPs first post, and you'll know the point of this thread :rolleyes:

You see, I think your reply is entirely relevant to the problem here. I don't know which side you're on, or if you even are on one, or if I'm right or wrong here. But I remember GD always being full of snarky remarks. I don't mind; I don't even browse this board.

Sorry for being OT, by the way. I'll just go to bed.

[das1330]

I like the idea of creating a forum with no limits. I think it would help to raise the discussion quality in TIF as a whole. But moderation reform should be considered as well.

[Alg]

Again, it is all well and good to want to go off topic and talk about efficiency vs. fun, whether the moderators were right or wrong, anything you want, but this topic really isn't about this.

 

It is about the way in which this was all carried out by the moderators and the parties in questions, and their behaviours limited to the past few days, not all of their posts they've ever made ever.

 

No one will win in these sorts of arguments, as there are two or more sides to all of these issues, but what I think most, if not all people agree upon is that the actions of both the moderators and posters were WRONG. Not their point. Their ACTIONS.

Indeed.

 

This is going fairly well. If this thread happened hours ago, we could've solved this before it really started.

[SirIzenhime]

read the OPs first post, and you'll know the point of this thread :rolleyes:

You see, I think your reply is entirely relevant to the problem here. I don't know which side you're on, or if you even are on one, or if I'm right or wrong here. But I remember GD always being full of snarky remarks. I don't mind; I don't even browse this board.

Sorry for being OT, by the way. I'll just go to bed.

 

How does me not being on a particular side relate to a problem.

You veered off the point of this thread, that was all I was saying.

[lordkafei]

AFAIAC, it all boils down to a lack of social aptitude. You may have the best, most efficient training methods known to man - but if you are condescending and socially inept, it wont get you squat.

 

Id wager todays theatrics were just a stunt to drive a wedge into the community here. The new efficiency forums were already in place and the clown car was packed to drive today. There was an awful lot of goading & button-pushing going on today and none of it was heat of the moment sort of stuff. Some people will go and some will stay.

 

I think those guys could put up a good informative site on efficient methods, but I dont think any of them have the social skills to succeed at it in an interactive medium (i.e. a forum). FWIW.

[das]

I'm going to write this post as Das the user, not the admin, I don't know if I can do that - but I've always had a penchant for doing what I was felt was right. This is that moment.

I'll try to mention as little as I can about the issue (as I know that would be the wrong thing to do and it's beside the point,) but even though I disagree with what occurred, I still think that both the moderators AND the parties involved behaved VERY poorly.

 

I agree with this. I can't say i'm proud of or that I can defend every action we have made the past few days. I don't think the other party can do it either. In my view, we made lot's of mistakes. Not everyone will agree with me i'm sure - be it users, staff, admins, but I feel we made mistakes and it breaks my heart - I can't say I'm proud to be an administrator at this moment.

 

I've made my entire career into trying to help make a fair tip.it, ran by the users, for the users. Tonight I'll be honest, i've spent time reflecting wondering if I messed up, if I failed myself.

 

I'm just a user with a red rank, I'm not god, I can't remove warnings and undue bans myself at the drop of a hat, but i'm working on it, i'm trying to get it done, if it's the last thing I do,. and although it may sound hollow, I hope the disgruntled parties work with me here at solving this.

 

 

~Das

[Gwasha]

In the end, it all boils down to letting people play the game as they wish. If someone gave bad advice, give better advice, and then OP will decide what he does. Advice is only better if he decides it's better.

 

^missed the whole point of the thread

 

I laughed.

[FooK-A-Ji]

This wouldn't be the first time that some disgruntled members "seperated" from tip.it to form a new community.

 

Actually, this wouldn't even be the tenth time.

 

I haven't been here for a number of days and I came back this morning and just realised that we are going through another, yes another one of these phases, lol.

 

With that I mean a purging of moderators - and a migration of users who have found their ego's and bloated heads too big for even tip.it, hoping to attract supporters and fans over to another website which will be "more free" etc etc and what have you.

 

As time goes by, some users feel that they are above the rules as they get (too) familiar with the forums. Maybe some moderators have handled situations incorrectly.

But desperate times call for desperate measures, and I've seen an abundance of asshats posting lately :thumbup:

 

It's not fun being a mod as some people may think. Its a voluntary job.

 

I'll have to read some more posts to give my full opinion though, since moderators can be just as bad as users, sometimes worse.

 

Also remember one last thing. Since I know that the banned users are most likely reading these forums still. Just know that bans on tip.it are very VERY rarely permanent. I was banned for over a year once and whaddaya know ? ... Still here.

So chill out, it's not the end of the world - or the internet.

[das]

fook, i've been here as long as you and never seen two admins in public admit they messed up and apologized and say they want to work for change.

[Naraku893]

Runescape fansite drama queens.

[Orpheus]

This wouldn't be the first time that some disgruntled members "seperated" from tip.it to form a new community.

 

Actually, this wouldn't even be the tenth time.

 

I haven't been here for a number of days and I came back this morning and just realised that we are going through another, yes another one of these phases, lol.

 

With that I mean a purging of moderators - and a migration of users who have found their ego's and bloated heads too big for even tip.it, hoping to attract supporters and fans over to another website which will be "more free" etc etc and what have you.

 

I know all about these kind of users because once upon a time I had godlike status on tip.it, don't ask me why because I just posted crap all day long lolol :mrgreen:

 

I agree with this. I've seen this happen quite a few times.

 

Still, I'm not going to paint everyone on this board with the same brush, but I think we all need to calm down and try to resolve all of the issues that have cropped up. Quite a few of you have frankly been jerks about the entire matter, and it's not helping anyone. Still, considering the demographic for this game in general, I'm not surprised such a thing has happened. (Read: Mostly 13-16 year old males, statistically speaking.)

 

As for the efficiency issue, It's generally how you say something that affects how someone receives it. For example, saying "The whip has a higher potential to gain more experience per hour than the godsword" would be better than saying "whip sucks, use godsword you idiot." I haven't played in at least three years, hence why that's an example, as I'm not sure what's more effective. I'd personally like to think this is just a "phase" the board is stuck in, like the news topics phase over at Off-topic, and perhaps with time this whole thing will blow over.

 

And as for the debating issue, remember, debates aren't about winning or losing. Keep this in mind.

[Alphanos]

I'm going to write this post as Das the user, not the admin, I don't know if I can do that - but I've always had a penchant for doing what I was felt was right. This is that moment.

I'll try to mention as little as I can about the issue (as I know that would be the wrong thing to do and it's beside the point,) but even though I disagree with what occurred, I still think that both the moderators AND the parties involved behaved VERY poorly.

 

I agree with this. I can't say i'm proud of or that I can defend every action we have made the past few days. I don't think the other party can do it either. In my view, we made lot's of mistakes. Not everyone will agree with me i'm sure - be it users, staff, admins, but I feel we made mistakes and it breaks my heart - I can't say I'm proud to be an administrator at this moment.

 

I've made my entire career into trying to help make a fair tip.it, ran by the users, for the users. Tonight I'll be honest, i've spent time reflecting wondering if I messed up, if I failed myself.

 

I'm just a user with a red rank, I'm not god, I can't remove warnings and undue bans myself at the drop of a hat, but i'm working on it, i'm trying to get it done, if it's the last thing I do,. and although it may sound hollow, I hope the disgruntled parties work with me here at solving this.

 

 

~Das

 

I hope everyone recognizes that you're trying to extend an olive branch here.

 

I'm just some random guy, but I for one wish there could just be a rollback of the past week or so on this forum. The main reason I come here is to get up-to-date and/or newly discovered information which can't be centrally located on something like the RS Wiki. If a large group of the efficiency crew breaks off from TIF, I'll have to get information from there. At the same time, there's basically zero chance that everyone would migrate, so I would also have to come here. I suspect many others feel the same way, but splitting information between two forums can only be wasteful. It would take a long time for the community to stabilize sufficiently that most needs could be served by only one of the two forums.

 

I understand that this whole situation puts the TIF admins in a tight spot for all sorts of reasons. On some level, there must be a desire to rescind some of those bans to recover the situation. At the same time there are some large egos among those leaving, and the last thing they need is to think that they're immune from following the rules. I don't envy you, trying to figure out how to proceed from here....