Effigy nerf

[Blutters]

With this I'm actually hopeful that they'll fix more long-standing issues. Like the release of Runecrafting.

[Platinum_Myr]

With this I'm actually hopeful that they'll fix more long-standing issues. Like the release of Runecrafting.

Runecrafting isn't the problem. It's a great skill. But you should get more xp for doing higher runes than just 5 more. It is abysmally slow, and the rate effectively doesn't increase with level that much.

[TheAncient]

The only reason you're crying so bad about how jagex is such a bad company is because you're all grouped together here. For every 1 of you, there's 10 more who like the update/don't care.

 

I'm glad i'm not guna see 5 more max capers everywhere i go, it's gotten way too common.

Yes jagex is a bad company because other people complain about it. Wat.

[Dragonlordjl]

The problem isn't that effigies are better than actually runecrafting. The problem is that runecrafting is worse than effigies. Update runecrafting. Make pouches autofill/use like coal bags do. Xp rates that remain static throughout the entire skill (only things that scale are pouches and zmi slightly)? Does jagex really expect us to train this?

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!

 

This is the crux of the problem. Jagex was lazy and took the easy fix to this-- that effigies were better than runecrafting says that they need to change runecrafting, not effigies. Give players an INCENTIVE to train the skill by using the skill, rather than by using "free exp" methods like Penguins and Effigies.

[icecube]

I'm interested in finding out some figures behind this nerf though. I assume that you can still get effigies with 40 banked, but at a lower rate. Also interested in the new universal rate with 0-4 banked, assuming that's been nerfed too.

Hm? Didn't you already acknowledge you can't get effigies when you have more than 5 earlier in your post? Not understanding the assumption that you can still get them with 40 banked.

[Thus]

Might as well take out penguins, xp lamps, troll xp rewards, jack of all trades, and anything else like them, since that is how everyone trains rc now anyway

[Platinum_Myr]

This is the crux of the problem. Jagex was lazy and took the easy fix to this-- that effigies were better than runecrafting says that they need to change runecrafting, not effigies. Give players an INCENTIVE to train the skill by using the skill, rather than by using "free exp" methods like Penguins and Effigies.

 

Yes!

[Ginger_Warrior]

The problem isn't that effigies are better than actually runecrafting. The problem is that runecrafting is worse than effigies. Update runecrafting. Make pouches autofill/use like coal bags do. Xp rates that remain static throughout the entire skill (only things that scale are pouches and zmi slightly)? Does jagex really expect us to train this?

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!

 

This is the crux of the problem. Jagex was lazy and took the easy fix to this-- that effigies were better than runecrafting says that they need to change runecrafting, not effigies. Give players an INCENTIVE to train the skill by using the skill, rather than by using "free exp" methods like Penguins and Effigies.

I find that very interesting. Up until now, those who've opposed this move have done so on the grounds that Jagex shouldn't force certain training methods and just because you don't like RC, you shouldn't have to do it for the max cape. This is a different argument altogether, since utilising the skill is central to the solution. It effectively says, "We want to use this skill just like any other, but we have no choice but to use penguins and effigies because the rewards, in terms of products and XP rates, are so [bleep] poor."

 

From this, can we all agree that we'd all like to be able to train Runecrafting by using the skill, just like every other skill in RuneScape, and if better alternatives existed and/or Runecrafting was given a genuine purpose, we wouldn't hunting effigies so relentlessly in the first place?

[Platinum_Myr]

From this, can we all agree that we'd all like to be able to train Runecrafting by using the skill, just like every other skill in RuneScape, and if better alternatives existed and/or Runecrafting was given a genuine purpose, we wouldn't hunting effigies so relentlessly in the first place?

 

From an efficiency standpoint, players will do what they can to maximise fun and experience rates: Runecrafting is mostly considered slow and repetitive. Effigies are at least nearly as fast as actual training, (not quite as fast as ZMI from what I've heard) but you ALSO get tons of combat xp with them. By increasing rc rates, and/or the enjoyabilty.. more people would do traditional runecrafting rather than hunt for effigies solely to get rc experience.

 

Runecrafting has a good purpose (creating runes for profit) but the cost of runes has gone down so much that it isn't considered profitable compared to things like frost dragons and other combat related activities.

 

If you simply added high level contant ala extreme potions to rc, but didn't increase training rates people would still use effigies to get the levels.

[Zaaps1]

Crafting armadyl runes is pretty good money last time I calculated it, although it's hard to sustain on a regular basis due to buy quantities at a favorable price

 

but skilling will never compete with combat for money, because its simply not as risky. say whatever you will about the markets changing profits, because combat is just as vulnerable and deaths take a huge punch into profits. if you want a more profitable method of skilling, one thing you must introduce is risk.

[Lose No Hope]

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Sorry if your annoyed but it is what it is.

I like how the opinions of the people who play the game have no weight in what happens to the game.

[Sir_Squab]

The problem isn't that effigies are better than actually runecrafting. The problem is that runecrafting is worse than effigies. Update runecrafting. Make pouches autofill/use like coal bags do. Xp rates that remain static throughout the entire skill (only things that scale are pouches and zmi slightly)? Does jagex really expect us to train this?

 

This. If Jagex was smart, they would have made an RC/Agility update, possibly beta-test it to make sure that exp rates are good and it's not TOO too horrible of a grind, then nerfed effigies.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

...From this, can we all agree that we'd all like to be able to train Runecrafting by using the skill, just like every other skill in RuneScape, and if better alternatives existed and/or Runecrafting was given a genuine purpose, we wouldn't hunting effigies so relentlessly in the first place?

 

When I was playing, I wouldn't have had any qualms with leveling Runecrafting if it had better rewards for the time I would put into it. Something like crafting talismans, gathering different, high-yield essence (which would give more experience per rune), something, anything that would spice the skill up - and I would want to train it.

 

Take away that and you take away any reason to level the skill except for maxing out. That makes a game a chore, which isn't the point at all.

 

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[/hide]

Sorry if your annoyed but it is what it is.

I like how the opinions of the people who play the game have no weight in what happens to the game.

 

Famous last words resurrected from their [self-admitted] rock climbing boots blunder?

[strilmus]

I like how he completely dodged answering why they waited until NOW to do it, since the "positive add-on" has NOTHING to do with why people were hoarding, like say, tweaking some skill training in a way that makes sense. It's like they took their narrow view of the situation and widened it slightly so that they could see more, and then suddenly decide that they figured out the whole situation, and then make a huge mistake anyway with the justification of their slightly wider viewpoint.

 

In another sense, this is also admitting that he considers the playerbase's opinions to be so trivial that he sees them as some sort of angry cat (with the connotations of unimportance that metaphor carries) that can be appeased by shaking his keys in front of them, like a different fire cape with colorswapped shinier enemies, or a one time exp bonus in front of them, and expect them to forget entirely, while he gets to completely ignore the situation and/or opinions of all players, valid or not, just because he feels he's doing the right thing, instead of actually evaluating the situation with more than his viewpoint, the ones of the company, and this theoretical model of their playerbase that they update every so often, like a training dummy which is as outdated and useless as the ones ingame because they're too damn afraid to actually talk to us outside of Runefest and people they have singled out as individuals who would be least likely to antagonize them.

 

With this particular perspective, last week can be viewed as a kind of "well, here's these things you've been wanting, it wasn't a big deal and we didn't really think this would help anything, but now you can put extremes on your yaks. but who cares we remade burthrope for people who immediately buy membership when starting a new account!" It's like that episode of Futurama where the professor uses the extra money he gets from a new delivery client to make some improvements to the ship like taping up the cracks in the dark matter reactor, or getting a cage for the lion, and perhaps about as funny if it wasn't depressing.

 

They might as well give us hats to continue playing the game so that we will overlook the fundamental issues while they sit in some dark bunker, wondering why we don't "get" what they're trying to do with "their" game and insist on playing it the "wrong" way.

[Jonanananas]

He also didn't answer why hoarding effigies is supposed to bad....

[Laikrob]

Mod Mark does play RS and cares a lot about it. Please don't believe anyone claiming otherwise.

He is very familiar with the game mechanics and how updates and other things impact the community and change the way people play. I was very pleasantly surprised about his passion when it comes to creating new updates, fixing old content and improving skills.

 

Whether you agree with this update or not, blaming it on the Jmods not knowing what they are doing is not a universal solution.

[Jonanananas]

Mod Mark does play RS and cares a lot about it. Please don't believe anyone claiming otherwise.

He is very familiar with the game mechanics and how updates and other things impact the community and change the way people play. I was very pleasantly surprised about his passion when it comes to creating new updates, fixing old content and improving skills.

 

Whether you agree with this update or not, blaming it on the Jmods not knowing what they are doing is not a universal solution.

 

I just wish I could understand why he's against hoarding effigies. Maybe there's some reason I haven't thought of.

[asfcjfdyitfhglh]

But can't you make 500M+ from actually RCing to 99? What do you get effigying it?

[TheAncient]

But can't you make 500M+ from actually RCing to 99? What do you get effigying it?

Glacors are 3m an hour and were 50k rc xp an hour or so

 

It's not a matter of whether or not Jagex actually played, it's a matter of whether or not they actually understand what's going on from a player's perspective.

 

And they do not.

[Powerfrog]

Putting personal bias aside, i think it was the right thing to do. Effigies really shouldn't and never were intended to be a primary xp gainer. They were just a nice diversion.

 

The change is good.

 

The problem is that change should have happened months ago.

 

The 'we did it because it made Runecrafting too easy' excuse is awful, though, the fact that people trained this way should be a good sign that Runecrafting needs changed, and not necessarily that the effigies need changed, although they do. I can understand the need for a 'difficult' skill, but Jagex really need to learn the difference between a DIFFICULT skill and a BORING/SLOW skill.

 

As a very basic example, make winning at GOP much better xp than regular Runecrafting. It takes a lot of skill and teamwork, and is much more enjoyable and active than clicking an altar.

[Nawty Zoot]

But can't you make 500M+ from actually RCing to 99? What do you get effigying it?

Glacors are 3m an hour and were 50k rc xp an hour or so

 

It's not a matter of whether or not Jagex actually played, it's a matter of whether or not they actually understand what's going on from a player's perspective.

 

And they do not.

 

They don't and they haven't since the days when Andrew used to visit players in game and ask for input.

 

As has already been mentioned, while nerfing effigies pretty much had to be done (one supposes), they way that they went about doing it, without so much as a warning, without providing an alternative training method, without at least mitigating the issue, in some way, prior to or during the nerf, merely demonstrates this point even further.

 

Sure, nerf effigies. Ok. But throw us a fricken bone here!

[Quyneax]

Mod Mark does play RS and cares a lot about it. Please don't believe anyone claiming otherwise.

He is very familiar with the game mechanics and how updates and other things impact the community and change the way people play. I was very pleasantly surprised about his passion when it comes to creating new updates, fixing old content and improving skills.

 

Whether you agree with this update or not, blaming it on the Jmods not knowing what they are doing is not a universal solution.

None of those things are unique to Mod Mark, they are actually pretty common. I'm sure you and I and half the people on this forum care about RS (a lot) and play it and understand its mechanics. Mark simply isn't very strong in mechanics/metagame. I'm not convinced that he does understand the game mechanics that well if he couldn't figure out the number of effigies dropped per hour at various locations, and comparing those to skilling, and then concluding that people might go hunting for them. He was a fool if he thought people wouldn't hoard effigies to break records, given that people hoarded charms before.

 

I think the Jmods knew what they were doing, and I think they are misguided in that this update isn't what makes the game more fun.

 

What is incredibly annoying about Jagex is the idiotic statements/lies they make up as reasons for the update. "I wanted to combine it with something more positive" leads to early bird specials? Not to mention that "they weren't meant to be a viable levelling method" and "they weren't meant to be hoarded" are not reasons to nerf effigies - where's the love for emergent gameplay? Effigies made mithril dragons, cave crawlers and such worth hunting, and they made glacors and tormented demons awesome quest rewards - they are now virtually useless because the no-quest-required Nex and Dagannoth Kings are better. The two great strengths of effigies - they must be kept in your bank with endless patience to get the most out of them, and they reward balanced skilling, are completely ignored.

 

The removal of F2P hiscores with the argument "To keep them fresh. We want the hiscores to feature players who will compete with each other, tooth and nail, for hiscore glory." (*cough* 200m xp cap *cough*).

I believe the argumentation for nerfing the Flash Powder factory was based on "We didn't want it to be the best xp in agility." so they nerfed it to be worse than any other course. The list goes on.

 

I stand by my claim that Jagex does not understand their games metagame, and they do not care for it.

[Thus]

Mod Mark does play RS and cares a lot about it. Please don't believe anyone claiming otherwise.

He is very familiar with the game mechanics and how updates and other things impact the community and change the way people play. I was very pleasantly surprised about his passion when it comes to creating new updates, fixing old content and improving skills.

 

Whether you agree with this update or not, blaming it on the Jmods not knowing what they are doing is not a universal solution.

[spoiler=lot of text]None of those things are unique to Mod Mark, they are actually pretty common. I'm sure you and I and half the people on this forum care about RS (a lot) and play it and understand its mechanics. Mark simply isn't very strong in mechanics/metagame. I'm not convinced that he does understand the game mechanics that well if he couldn't figure out the number of effigies dropped per hour at various locations, and comparing those to skilling, and then concluding that people might go hunting for them. He was a fool if he thought people wouldn't hoard effigies to break records, given that people hoarded charms before.

 

I think the Jmods knew what they were doing, and I think they are misguided in that this update isn't what makes the game more fun.

 

What is incredibly annoying about Jagex is the idiotic statements/lies they make up as reasons for the update. "I wanted to combine it with something more positive" leads to early bird specials? Not to mention that "they weren't meant to be a viable levelling method" and "they weren't meant to be hoarded" are not reasons to nerf effigies - where's the love for emergent gameplay? Effigies made mithril dragons, cave crawlers and such worth hunting, and they made glacors and tormented demons awesome quest rewards - they are now virtually useless because the no-quest-required Nex and Dagannoth Kings are better. The two great strengths of effigies - they must be kept in your bank with endless patience to get the most out of them, and they reward balanced skilling, are completely ignored.

 

The removal of F2P hiscores with the argument "To keep them fresh. We want the hiscores to feature players who will compete with each other, tooth and nail, for hiscore glory." (*cough* 200m xp cap *cough*).

I believe the argumentation for nerfing the Flash Powder factory was based on "We didn't want it to be the best xp in agility." so they nerfed it to be worse than any other course. The list goes on.

 

I stand by my claim that Jagex does not understand their games metagame, and they do not care for it.

 

 

I do not doubt that Pmods play runescape, but they are probably 1000 total level and do updates based on things they will never experience legitimately. Also I care a lot about runescape, but I also cared about it when I was level 10, and I knew nothing about it. Caring does not equal experience.

[Pete Party]

The only reason you're crying so bad about how jagex is such a bad company is because you're all grouped together here. For every 1 of you, there's 10 more who like the update/don't care.

 

I'm glad i'm not guna see 5 more max capers everywhere i go, it's gotten way too common.

 

So because a few people have their max cape now means that it should be harder for others to obtain.

That is the result of the update but I don't think thats the thought behind it.

[Rohanonrs]

Mod Mark: Effigies have been dropping more frequently than we originally intended. We also didnt expect users to hoard them as much as they have.

 

I'm not really sure what to say about this statement. Since the release of Effigys many updates have come that made them easier and easier to get, it doesn't take a genius to put numbers into a formula then find out the max kph of a monster.

As for hoarding them do you really think people going to throw away 90k exp? Effigys are practically designed to be hoarded until you can open them. Sort of worries me that the Head Designer of Runescape didn't catch on to this.