Effigy nerf

[Vex]

There are 2 main problems I see with this that don't really make any sense, nor improve the gameplay in any way.

 

The first thing is the cap of 5 effigies.

 

Having a cap of 5 only punishes those below level ~94 in all skills. The fact you can basically instantly/comfortably open an effigy with boosts at an average of level 94 doesn't effect the gameplay whatsoever. They can still level nearly a 3rd of the entire XP required for level 99 the same way as they could before the update. Those who can't open them by themselves would still need to physically train their skills to ~88-89 all to begin even opening the starved effigies anyway. before the update.

 

This basically means having a cap of 5 effigies forces players to level ~89-94, all this patch has changed is you are now forced to level ~3m more xp than you previously needed to in these skills.

 

The second thing is reducing the drop rate of those 5 effigies exponentially the more you have.

 

If by some miracle you receive an effigy as a drop you have to open it straight away or suffer a reduced drop rate. Well then here is the problem:

97 All -> You just need to get out of combat, (Not always easy if creatures are aggressive etc)

94 All-> You are going to need to bank, so yes Slayer is about to become far more tedious since you may need to bank before you finish a task or you're screwing yourself out of a chance of an effigy.

<94 skills -> You have to go Daemonheim, get your effigy fully assisted and opened, use your lamp THEN go back to what you were doing.

 

The overall droprate has been nerfed (imo so far) > double to triple of what it once was. This means from PowerSlaying you can expect an effigy on average every 4 hours, or even 6 hours depending on how badly the rate has been nerfed. So with it being so rare anyway, you still aren't allowed to hold more than one and you STILL get further penalised if you have that.

 

Honestly Jagex with all of the above they may as well have removed them from the game entirely.

 

TLDR: With the drop rate halved/third there is no need for a 5 effigy limit, nor further reduction of chance per effigy the more of those 5 you carry.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Is it really such a bad thing that it's harder to max now? The number of maxed players has grown exponentially since effigies came out. It used to be something special, admired, and awed. Now it's kind of something that everyone strives to complete pretty realistically. It's gotten a lot less special IMO.

 

Why don't people stop trying to have everything served to them on a silver platter? People seem to want this game to be so easy. If people don't like runecrafting they shouldn't train it. If they want to max out, then I think training skills you don't like should be part of that process. We're not all going to like every single skill and I think that's perfectly fine. I accept that I hate mining, which is why I don't train it. I also accept that if I want to max some day I will have to train it. That's how games work. RuneScape is a game with plenty of content. There are more than enough skills for you to pick and choose the ones you want to level.

 

Sure, Jagex could make runecrafting faster.. but why should they? So we can have another 99 that everyone and their mother has? So runecrafting can be another "not very admirable" 99? Why does everyone want the game to be so easy? Do you guys not want to actually have to work hard and put a lot of time into something? Sure it can be frustrating and boring, but that's why it feels epic when you finally complete it. There's a reason why I'm not particularly proud of my 99 fletching or 99 cooking. They were fast and easy.. so what is there to be proud of?

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with preserving some of the slower skills.

 

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. The same players then wonder why their own achievments aren't special any more. I don't revere even the RC cape any more because of effigies. I've always had problems with players moaning about the grinding aspect of the game. Still do. Makes me wonder why they bother playing if they want it so easy. Unfortunately we have a new breed of player that wants everything right now........Guess game playing isn't gameplaying any more. It's quite sad that we've come to this.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Sure, Jagex could make runecrafting faster.. but why should they? So we can have another 99 that everyone and their mother has? So runecrafting can be another "not very admirable" 99? Why does everyone want the game to be so easy? Do you guys not want to actually have to work hard and put a lot of time into something? Sure it can be frustrating and boring, but that's why it feels epic when you finally complete it. There's a reason why I'm not particularly proud of my 99 fletching or 99 cooking. They were fast and easy.. so what is there to be proud of?

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with preserving some of the slower skills.

 

I agree and disagree at the same time. I don't (or didn't) see anyone demanding that every grindy skill - Agility and Runecrafting to name a few - be made easier. The main contention is to make the skill more rewarding for the amount of time invested into leveling. If one can't get a sense of fair reward in exchange for their time, they will perform another activity that gives them that fair reward for their time.

 

I don't mind if a skill is slow, but please, make it worth the time.

 

My point is about preserving some of the sense of achievement in RuneScape. When everything is easy, what is there to be proud of? Don't you guys actually want to have to work for something? Or should all of the 99s just be like cooking with insane xp rates?

 

I'd say that "work" is subjective. Is it less or more work for someone to buy all of the goods for 99 in <insert buyable here> than it would be had they gathered everything for themselves? Take Cooking for example - I have that as another 99 of mine. It was looked down upon because it's considered "easy" (read: buyable). The truth is, I spent about 3 months gathering the rocktail needed to get that level (and I also got 99 Fishing too). I don't feel that the skill was cheapened any because its rate of experience was higher than the amount of Fishing I had put in (I had about...92 Cooking; it took me 2 days to get to 99 with the Rocktail). I wouldn't feel that my efforts to get 99 in Fishing was cheapened by effigies either; the person that wanted to use their effigies on that felt that it was a better time investment to gather them up however, and use them on that one skill.

 

Admittedly, Jagex's move may have been one to strike a balance in their game, but since there's a huge divide between amount of time required to level certain skills and quantity of reward, they've only addressed a symptom of a larger problem.

 

I suppose if we wanted this issue to go away, a proper revamp of skills would be far better. [Yeah, I'm talkin' to the guy that thought that Dwarven workshop in Fally was a Smithing "revamp".] Heck, I'd be willing to accept effigy drops only on slayer tasks to avoid mass farming.

[asfcjfdyitfhglh]

Most people who say this was the perfect update fall into 2 categories: those with annoying skills already maxed (with or without effigies) and those who are so low level getting 99 seems like something unobtainable (newbies pretty much)

 

I fall into neither. Currently, I can't do any of the "mine/smith" effigies at all, and only up to nourished for the "fish/farm" (if I use an admiral pie). The rest I can do in one form or another. If I get one of those effigies I can't do on my own, I head right on over to W117 and get an assist. Henceforth why I really don't understand the complaining.

 

If you're (and I mean "you" in the general sense of everyone complaining) *that* concerned with being able to do all of your effigies yourself, then stop killing things and waste three, four or five months getting the adequate levels so you can do them. You were going to raise your skills, anyway, so why not do it now. As the saying goes, there's no time like the present. Simple.

 

A few reasons why we can't do that.

 

1. I planning on using exp from the effigies I can complete to train the skills that can't (yet) be used to complete effigies.

 

2. I have level 70 RC/Summon. I just got a 91 RC/Summ effigy. See the problem?

 

3. A little things called baby steps. One small piece at a time. Rather then grind 20 levels and do nothing at all interesting in RS (at least, anything I can gain effigies doing, which cuts out "boss" fights, slayer...) I'd rather, idk, train slayer, kill glacors, maybe collect more effigies... In between the time that I'd spend leveling my skills. Now, in between leveling my skills I go to Glacors or TDs... oh [bleep], I can't get any more effigy drops.

 

Unless someone is very close to the skill they need for the effigy, telling them to level it is unreasonable.

 

I don't see the problem. First of all, effigies were designed so that lower levels had incentive to train to higher levels. Now, lower levels can't use te effigies to get to these levels, making them how jagex wanted them all along. IMO effigies were horrible, but what's been done is not I any way a 'nerf' of them. You still get full xp, and the time spent for those camping them is minuscule. They couldn't remove them now, so what they have done is not a step closer. This is the kind of thing we want from jagex; Caring about the game, and its veterans, not new people who lack the patience.

 

First off, that bolded part is completely and utterly wrong.

 

Back in the day, there wasn't a maxed cape. Back in the day, there were 3 people with maxed stats. Also, if you've read this thread, you should come to the conclusion that this NOT the kind of thing the community overall wants (or that tipit'ers really like effigies.)

 

Also, hoarding effigies in the bank until you have the level to open them is, ya know, a good incentive TO train to said higher levels.

 

Also, whether or not effigies should have been implemented in the first place is irrelevant; the point is, they've been around for what, 2 years, and now players who built their gameplay around them get [bleep]ed. I've said this many times already, the solution to effigy farming to train skills should be making the actual skill training better then effigies. There are only two skills where that's a problem, which suggests the problem isn't so much with effigies as it is with those skills.

 

More solutions to effigies includes making them a Boss Monster/Slayer Task Only drop or limit the amount of effigies you can open in a day.

 

Also, here's a question I'd like virtually every veteran of an MMORPG to answer: why is making the game easier for new players a bad thing? (Beside the fact that it pisses off veterans in the first place.)

 

Another thought, how many people do you think are happy about this update? How happy do you think they are? How many people do you think are mad about this update? How mad do you think they are? I'd bet a lot of money that, overall, there are a lot more people angry about this update then are happy about it, and those that are angry about it are angrier then how happy those that are happy about it are. If that made any sense.

 

What does who had maxed stats have to do with anything?

 

Yes I noticed the general atmosphere, I was expressing my thoughts. I never said anything against yours, but you're attacking me as if I have. You made fallacies regarding things that have nothing to do with my original post, which is still correct; effigies are not nerfed. [/rant]

[Quyneax]

The only proper way to train a skill, in my opinion, is the most efficient. Saying that you should physically use essence on an altar to train runecrafting 'properly' is like saying you should always chop the highest level tree you can for woodcutting. Effigies are a part of skills, they are listed in skill guides and happen to be viable methods, but only for clusters of skills, never a single skill, which is also what makes effigies interesting.

 

ZMI was not the most efficient pre-nerf, hence it was not the proper way to train runecrafting.

 

Because I did like the 'old' proper way for a number of skills: agility, mining, runecrafting, thieving, woodcutting, cooking, fishing and hunter, and I do not like the 'new' proper way of a number of skills: agility, runecrafting, fishing I do not like this update.

[Erewhon2]

Why don't people stop trying to have everything served to them on a silver platter? People seem to want this game to be so easy. If people don't like runecrafting they shouldn't train it. If they want to max out, then I think training skills you don't like should be part of that process. We're not all going to like every single skill and I think that's perfectly fine. I accept that I hate mining, which is why I don't train it. I also accept that if I want to max some day I will have to train it. That's how games work. RuneScape is a game with plenty of content. There are more than enough skills for you to pick and choose the ones you want to level.

 

Sure, Jagex could make runecrafting faster.. but why should they? So we can have another 99 that everyone and their mother has? So runecrafting can be another "not very admirable" 99? Why does everyone want the game to be so easy? Do you guys not want to actually have to work hard and put a lot of time into something? Sure it can be frustrating and boring, but that's why it feels epic when you finally complete it. There's a reason why I'm not particularly proud of my 99 fletching or 99 cooking. They were fast and easy.. so what is there to be proud of?

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with preserving some of the slower skills.

 

I agree with the points you have made here. It appears to me that many players see Runescape as having an 'endgame', so therefore they are always striving for faster/easier way to achieve the 'end'. What seems lost is the fact that Runescape is a perpetual game and could be played for a lifetime if you wished it. Everyone has different interests, people have mentioned about how boring agility is, well it was my first cape and I loved it....given half a chance I would do it all over again! So what is boring for one person will be an exciting challenge for another player.

 

With that in mind I have absolutely no opinion about effigies, I have one (and only one) sitting in my bank. If people want to max out using effigies and reach their personal 'endgame' that's their choice, equally if Jagex removed them altogether I wouldn't even notice....because I play for the long term.

[Riptide Mage]

It's not even like they've removed effigies from the game.

 

They have for me until I spend almost 300 hours on noncombat grinds

[stonewall337]

Is it really such a bad thing that it's harder to max now? The number of maxed players has grown exponentially since effigies came out. It used to be something special, admired, and awed. Now it's kind of something that everyone strives to complete pretty realistically. It's gotten a lot less special IMO.

 

Its never going to be impressive again, for several reasons.

 

1.) The game has been out for too long, players will eventually reach max just for playing.

 

2.) Too many people are maxed already. Its not that impressive just because its not unique anymore

 

3.) Skills, even without effigies, are mostly faster now. Way easier to max out things like mining, etc.

[Ginger_Warrior]

It's not even like they've removed effigies from the game.

 

They have for me until I spend almost 300 hours on noncombat grinds

Would you rather they simply reduce experience rates from the lamps in order to balance effigies?

 

Jagex decided they needed to "nerf" it, you were going to get hurt one way or another.

[Vex]

Honestly, from what I've seen so far, those with mass effigies in bank. Don't worry too much, I don't think you'll miss out on many from doing slayer now, the drop rate is so low.

[Lord Paul]

It's not even like they've removed effigies from the game.

 

They have for me until I spend almost 300 hours on noncombat grinds

Would you rather they simply reduce experience rates from the lamps in order to balance effigies?

 

Jagex decided they needed to "nerf" it, you were going to get hurt one way or another.

 

"Nerfing" effigies by implementing the bank cap hurts players much more than a reduced experience rate, as explained quite well by Vex. I don't think there would be much complaining if this update solely halved the experience rate... I would kind of support it.

[stonewall337]

Ya if I still played I'd have NO reason to slay now, unless I suddenly wanted 20m slayer xp or something. I can make more in an evening of DKS then I could in a month of slayer, and crapping effigies? I'd pass.

[Urza285]

Get the frequently-used-contraption-killer over it. Skill like a real player... and do your assists too!

[Pinata]

Is it really such a bad thing that it's harder to max now? The number of maxed players has grown exponentially since effigies came out. It used to be something special, admired, and awed. Now it's kind of something that everyone strives to complete pretty realistically. It's gotten a lot less special IMO.

 

Its never going to be impressive again, for several reasons.

 

1.) The game has been out for too long, players will eventually reach max just for playing.

 

2.) Too many people are maxed already. Its not that impressive just because its not unique anymore

 

3.) Skills, even without effigies, are mostly faster now. Way easier to max out things like mining, etc.

 

I don't understand how its still not an impressive achievement. Currently on hiscores there are 1421 players at 2496. I'll call it 1500 for people who are f2p, and soon to be comp cape. Now there's 790k ranked members. We will say 800k members.

 

(1500/800,000) * 100 = 0.1875%. How is something that only .2% of members achieved not impressive?

 

Now if we're doing max cape, not counting 120dg however I don't see it as max. There should be around 3-5k players with access to max cape.

 

(4000/800,000) * 100 = 0.5% Considering Runescape has been out 10 years and only .5% of players have achieved all 99s. I still see it as impressive as it was from pre-ge.

[Urza285]

Is it really such a bad thing that it's harder to max now? The number of maxed players has grown exponentially since effigies came out. It used to be something special, admired, and awed. Now it's kind of something that everyone strives to complete pretty realistically. It's gotten a lot less special IMO.

 

Its never going to be impressive again, for several reasons.

 

1.) The game has been out for too long, players will eventually reach max just for playing.

 

2.) Too many people are maxed already. Its not that impressive just because its not unique anymore

 

3.) Skills, even without effigies, are mostly faster now. Way easier to max out things like mining, etc.

 

I don't understand how its still not an impressive achievement. Currently on hiscores there are 1421 players at 2496. I'll call it 1500 for people who are f2p, and soon to be comp cape. Now there's 790k ranked members. We will say 800k members.

 

(1500/800,000) * 100 = 0.1875%. How is something that only .2% of members achieved not impressive?

 

Now if we're doing max cape, not counting 120dg however I don't see it as max. There should be around 3-5k players with access to max cape.

 

(4000/800,000) * 100 = 0.5% Considering Runescape has been out 10 years and only .5% of players have achieved all 99s. I still see it as impressive as it was from pre-ge.

There are 3.8k players with Max cape.

[Riptide Mage]

Get the frequently-used-contraption-killer over it. Skill like a real player... and do your assists too!

 

The hypocracy in this post is amazing.

[Urza285]

Get the frequently-used-contraption-killer over it. Skill like a real player... and do your assists too!

 

The hypocracy in this post is amazing.

Thank you :D.

[stonewall337]

Is it really such a bad thing that it's harder to max now? The number of maxed players has grown exponentially since effigies came out. It used to be something special, admired, and awed. Now it's kind of something that everyone strives to complete pretty realistically. It's gotten a lot less special IMO.

 

Its never going to be impressive again, for several reasons.

 

1.) The game has been out for too long, players will eventually reach max just for playing.

 

2.) Too many people are maxed already. Its not that impressive just because its not unique anymore

 

3.) Skills, even without effigies, are mostly faster now. Way easier to max out things like mining, etc.

 

I don't understand how its still not an impressive achievement. Currently on hiscores there are 1421 players at 2496. I'll call it 1500 for people who are f2p, and soon to be comp cape. Now there's 790k ranked members. We will say 800k members.

 

(1500/800,000) * 100 = 0.1875%. How is something that only .2% of members achieved not impressive?

 

Now if we're doing max cape, not counting 120dg however I don't see it as max. There should be around 3-5k players with access to max cape.

 

(4000/800,000) * 100 = 0.5% Considering Runescape has been out 10 years and only .5% of players have achieved all 99s. I still see it as impressive as it was from pre-ge.

 

Its no where near as impressive as it was. Look at it this way, less then 1% of the WoW raider base has killed Sinestra, a boss from 2 tiers ago. Its still hard. But killing it now is no were near as impressive as it was back with worse gear when it was newer. Same for maxed cape. Maxed cape is hard because of the amount of time needed to get it. But maxing after 3 or 5 years is not as impressive as maxing after 1 or 2, see? Its still rare, just not as rare.

[Vex]

Is it really such a bad thing that it's harder to max now? The number of maxed players has grown exponentially since effigies came out. It used to be something special, admired, and awed. Now it's kind of something that everyone strives to complete pretty realistically. It's gotten a lot less special IMO.

 

Its never going to be impressive again, for several reasons.

 

1.) The game has been out for too long, players will eventually reach max just for playing.

 

2.) Too many people are maxed already. Its not that impressive just because its not unique anymore

 

3.) Skills, even without effigies, are mostly faster now. Way easier to max out things like mining, etc.

 

I don't understand how its still not an impressive achievement. Currently on hiscores there are 1421 players at 2496. I'll call it 1500 for people who are f2p, and soon to be comp cape. Now there's 790k ranked members. We will say 800k members.

 

(1500/800,000) * 100 = 0.1875%. How is something that only .2% of members achieved not impressive?

 

Now if we're doing max cape, not counting 120dg however I don't see it as max. There should be around 3-5k players with access to max cape.

 

(4000/800,000) * 100 = 0.5% Considering Runescape has been out 10 years and only .5% of players have achieved all 99s. I still see it as impressive as it was from pre-ge.

 

Its no where near as impressive as it was. Look at it this way, less then 1% of the WoW raider base has killed Sinestra, a boss from 2 tiers ago. Its still hard. But killing it now is no were near as impressive as it was back with worse gear when it was newer. Same for maxed cape. Maxed cape is hard because of the amount of time needed to get it. But maxing after 3 or 5 years is not as impressive as maxing after 1 or 2, see? Its still rare, just not as rare.

 

This is how all MMO progression works, but good luck trying to explain that to people who have only ever played Runescape. lol

[blakdragon39]

I really wish they had just lowered the drop rate. I can only do 2 effigies on my own.. 91 cooking, and 93/91 mining. What am I supposed to do with any other effigies now? I have a 91 con effigy stuck in my bank, can't find anyone to assist me with it. =\ This update really only effects the people who CAN'T do all the effigies, which AREN'T the people who were using them to gain stupid amounts of exp in RC and other slow skills right? Seems like a REALLY bad way to deal with the problem. :(

[Logdotzip]

prefer nothing had been changed, especially after so long, but if i had to choose, cap over reduced rate, and if i had to keep both, IMO rate shouldnt continue to go down as you have more effigies. stupid

[My_Eggs]

I despise the RCing skill but want a max/completionist cape.

 

What makes you think you should be allowed to get one?

 

I should be allowed to get one because I play the game and train my skills. I have just as much right to get a max cape as any other player in this game that doesn't bot (bots obviously don't deserve any skill related capes they get). Just because I don't enjoy one skill out of all of them and wish to train it in the most efficient way I shouldn't be allowed to get a cape? I fail to see the logic in that.

[miracleman58]

I despise the RCing skill but want a max/completionist cape.

 

What makes you think you should be allowed to get one?

 

I should be allowed to get one because I play the game and train my skills. I have just as much right to get a max cape as any other player in this game that doesn't bot (bots obviously don't deserve any skill related capes they get). Just because I don't enjoy one skill out of all of them and wish to train it in the most efficient way I shouldn't be allowed to get a cape? I fail to see the logic in that.

 

 

You gotta max to get a max cape...

 

I imagine most of the people with maxed cape did not like 2-4 skills but gotta be done if you really want one.

[stonewall337]

I despise the RCing skill but want a max/completionist cape.

 

What makes you think you should be allowed to get one?

 

I should be allowed to get one because I play the game and train my skills. I have just as much right to get a max cape as any other player in this game that doesn't bot (bots obviously don't deserve any skill related capes they get). Just because I don't enjoy one skill out of all of them and wish to train it in the most efficient way I shouldn't be allowed to get a cape? I fail to see the logic in that.

 

That's a failed logical argument.

 

You actually have no more right then any other player, and if you don't like a skill tough luck. Then you don't get a max cape.

 

I dont like all my Uni classes, but I still have to take them to graduate.

[jeremy4444]

Where do you get effigies? I heard you get them from skilling...is this true?