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The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion


Leon S

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Didn't they say something about tying most of your offense bonuses to your weapon a while ago?

 

Yes but there are supposedly negative penalties for the wrong type of armor equipped as well.

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Do you think with the added importance of armor in the combat update that rushing DG - not making armor etc. will be a viable way to train the skill anymore? Or will it be a case of gathering resources at the start of a dungeon?

 

The same with more emphasised attack styles, will we need more than one weapon? (Assuming you can't stab with a 2H for example)

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Dungeoneering is already the place where attack styles are emphasised the most, for a second offensive bind most people go with hex/blood necklace/gauntlets. Whether armour is made or not will depend on the survivability without it, which we can't really judge until it happens. I'd imagine most people will get by with their plate binds however. Not sure what will happen in the random floors where hood are more prevalent though.

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We don't know enough to be sure. If we don't get more binds, I expect the overall strategy of going fast/rushing won't be changed that much.

 

@Hedge, do you have a QFC for that? I heard the rings would change but haven't seen anything specific yet.

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Original question from Veil Cypher: Do you know if you can remove the 'style' requirements on the melee DG rings?

 

The BG (note from Moe: I believe this a typo for dg) rings are being reworked to work with the new combat abilities and not on the styles as before.

 

[qfc]296-297-213-63761736[/qfc]

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Original question from Veil Cypher: Do you know if you can remove the 'style' requirements on the melee DG rings?

 

The BG (note from Moe: I believe this a typo for dg) rings are being reworked to work with the new combat abilities and not on the styles as before.

 

[qfc]296-297-213-63761736[/qfc]

 

That's pretty non-specific though. Ohwell :) more wait and see.

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I think it would be more likely hoods would be replaced with a plate (or if 99 then with plate legs) along with a spear if styles are no longer needed for the rings. Hoods seem to be slowly fading out of favor with atleast high level raiders I've talked to so would be more a push over the edge.

 

As some have said, it really depends on the survivability without the armor and its hp boost, but somehow I think the stigma of making stuff being bad will always stay around :P

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I think it would be more likely hoods would be replaced with a plate (or if 99 then with plate legs) along with a spear if styles are no longer needed for the rings. Hoods seem to be slowly fading out of favor with atleast high level raiders I've talked to so would be more a push over the edge.

 

As some have said, it really depends on the survivability without the armor and its hp boost, but somehow I think the stigma of making stuff being bad will always stay around :P

 

Most of the people I see ditching hoods are ditching hood for hex/bloodnecklace after they have 3 binds. But if plate increases survivability by enough I wouldn't mind switching at this point. Floors tend to be too fast with too many magers for me to enjoy the hood anymore.

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Didn't they say something about tying most of your offense bonuses to your weapon a while ago?

 

Yes but there are supposedly negative penalties for the wrong type of armor equipped as well.

 

Yeah things jagex have said imply:

Mage armour will do nothing offense wise for mage but it will give massive negatives to offence for ranged and melee.

Range armour will do nothing offense wise for range but it will give massive negatives to offence for mage and melee.

Melee armour will do nothing offense wise for melee but it will give massive negatives to offence for ranged and mage.

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Didn't they say something about tying most of your offense bonuses to your weapon a while ago?

 

Yes but there are supposedly negative penalties for the wrong type of armor equipped as well.

 

Yeah things jagex have said imply:

Mage armour will do nothing offense wise for mage but it will give massive negatives to offence for ranged and melee.

Range armour will do nothing offense wise for range but it will give massive negatives to offence for mage and melee.

Melee armour will do nothing offense wise for melee but it will give massive negatives to offence for ranged and mage.

 

Which is essentially the same thing as all armors giving bonuses to the type they support with zero negatives.. (assuming the weapons were lowered to compensate)

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Additional lifepoints in RS are good because it makes brews heal more and makes it harder to get KO'd. Salve eels heal the same regardless of your lp, and I don't see any suggestion that that will change. No one gets KO'd in dungeoneering except on shadow forger.

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Additional lifepoints in RS are good because it makes brews heal more and makes it harder to get KO'd. Salve eels heal the same regardless of your lp, and I don't see any suggestion that that will change. No one gets KO'd in dungeoneering except on shadow forger.

 

I get ko'ed a fair amount..

 

Also, we don't know if/how brews will be updated in light of much larger lifepoints. Same for other foods..

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we dont even need food to survivor prod a dungeon with only a plate bound so i dont see why people would bind more armor if dps will increase making damage taken in gds less

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I think it would be more likely hoods would be replaced with a plate (or if 99 then with plate legs) along with a spear if styles are no longer needed for the rings. Hoods seem to be slowly fading out of favor with atleast high level raiders I've talked to so would be more a push over the edge.

 

As some have said, it really depends on the survivability without the armor and its hp boost, but somehow I think the stigma of making stuff being bad will always stay around :P

 

Already happened.

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I think it would be more likely hoods would be replaced with a plate (or if 99 then with plate legs) along with a spear if styles are no longer needed for the rings. Hoods seem to be slowly fading out of favor with atleast high level raiders I've talked to so would be more a push over the edge.

 

As some have said, it really depends on the survivability without the armor and its hp boost, but somehow I think the stigma of making stuff being bad will always stay around :P

 

Already happened.

Yeah I rarely see people with hoods anymore.

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I think it would be more likely hoods would be replaced with a plate (or if 99 then with plate legs) along with a spear if styles are no longer needed for the rings. Hoods seem to be slowly fading out of favor with atleast high level raiders I've talked to so would be more a push over the edge.

 

As some have said, it really depends on the survivability without the armor and its hp boost, but somehow I think the stigma of making stuff being bad will always stay around :P

 

Already happened.

Yeah I rarely see people with hoods anymore.

 

Honestly only see them for the mid to lower levels (80ish) with two binds and there I still see them a decent amount, though I've not raided in about a month so maybe a ton has changed in that time. I personally still have my hood right now and I plan to get rid of it soon as I get a blood necklace. The main reason for the bn for me is for c2s though.

 

Main binds I see now are:

 

P2h, Hex, Plate, BN/Hood/Legs

 

So for the upper level dgers (117+ and mostly people with 4 binds) I don't see that line up changing since survival prodding is taboo anyway most of the time. I've actually seen people flammed for having legs binded anyway.

 

The popular opinion seems to be that offensive binds are best and I don't think that opinion will go anywhere unless surviving becomes a real challenge. There is a ton of suiciders now, so deaths really don't seem to matter to people near as much as when dungeoneering first came out. Unless you can actually be commonly koed I think nothing will change :P

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Didn't they say something about tying most of your offense bonuses to your weapon a while ago?

 

Yes but there are supposedly negative penalties for the wrong type of armor equipped as well.

 

Yeah things jagex have said imply:

Mage armour will do nothing offense wise for mage but it will give massive negatives to offence for ranged and melee.

Range armour will do nothing offense wise for range but it will give massive negatives to offence for mage and melee.

Melee armour will do nothing offense wise for melee but it will give massive negatives to offence for ranged and mage.

 

Which is essentially the same thing as all armors giving bonuses to the type they support with zero negatives.. (assuming the weapons were lowered to compensate)

 

Not really.

If mage armour boosted mage offense but left range and melee at 0 you'd be quite easily able to use off-class weapons as the offensive boosts from your range and melee weapons would mean you still have a fair bit of power.

 

Since they say you won't be able to effectively use off-class weapons and that offensive boosts are being moved to weapons logically speaking mage armour HAS to have negatives to range and melee attack so that even with a range or melee weapon you barely reach 0 overall.

 

The key difference is the way you said it is still doable and by the sounds of jagex system (all offence on weapons) wou would not be hindered at all by going off-class.

The way I said it does actually penalise/limit you for going off-class, which is what jmods have claimed to be the case.

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They stated that many monsters won't be bolstering the standard melee attack ad many of them will be getting secondary attacks. I'm guessing something like demons will gain magic attacks, skeletons and zombies will gain range attacks (unless lore-specific such as the Swan Song skeletons). I think this will actually be a bit more dungeoneering-like, but prove to be much more engaging.



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They stated that many monsters won't be bolstering the standard melee attack ad many of them will be getting secondary attacks. I'm guessing something like demons will gain magic attacks, skeletons and zombies will gain range attacks (unless lore-specific such as the Swan Song skeletons). I think this will actually be a bit more dungeoneering-like, but prove to be much more engaging.

 

I read their comments on this less as more creatures getting secondary attacks more as many being moved away from the default melee seeing as the automatic default monster has a basic melee attack atm and changing it's style is an addition hence why like 90% of rs monsters melee.

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[qfc]296-297-574-63808127[/qfc]

by Mod Rathe

After interrogating my fellow combat developers, here is more detailed information on XP:

 

The XP reduction kicks in based on comparing your offensive stat to the enemy Defence level, and in fact does not use your overall combat level. Here is an example:

 

I have 99 Attack, 99 Defence and 1 Magic.

I Mage an NPC with 50 Defence, and I have selected to Mage defensively, so gaining Magic and Defence XP.

Let's say this NPC awards 200 XP, therefore 50% (100 XP) is for Magic and 50% (100 XP) is for Defence.

My Defence skill is more than 30 levels above the NPC so this XP is reduced down to 10% (10 XP).

However, my Magic skill is less than 30 levels away from the NPC so I get 100% of my Magic XP (100 XP).

I am awarded 10 Defence XP and 100 Magic XP.

The reduction is only applied down, never up. So if I kill an NPC that is 50 levels higher than my offence and defence skill, I will be awarded 100% of the XP.

However, if my offence and defence skills are 30+ levels above the NPC I kill, I shall only be awarded 10% of the XP.

 

This is pretty important and I hope I'm reading it right. The system is looking at the skill you're leveling versus the primary skill the monster will counter it (either it's offensive or defensive stat). You don't want to train defense on a monster with its offensive stat too low and you don't train atk/mag/rng against an enemy with low defensive stat. However, this is beneficial to players with divergent range, mage and melee stats. Reason being, even if you're a high combat level thanks to 90 atk, you can still train on low level NPCs if you happen to have and use a low level range skill.

 

Also, if I'm reading this right, monsters will have weapons and armor of a level that fits their base stat. An NPC with 40 atk and 40 def will also be using something like rune armor and weapons. If that's the case, a monster's combat level and a player's combat level (that's fully equipped) will be comparable in power. That's unlike now where a level 138 NPC would be no competition to a fairly equipped level 80 player.

 

Now I'm wondering how XP will be handled in all this? I don't think it's going to be HP based anymore. I can see it where a monster will have a set XP and you get a portion of that XP proportional to how much you damage it.

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