The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Urza285]

It's not going to be your "fully rebindable" so go in the corner and start crying now :P. If youd o that now then maybe the one less person doing it on the beta release will lessen the amount whining I see.

 

Jagex is going to do things how they want. Maybe they didn't program their key bind system to cover complex keys. Maybe they thought since tabs are bound to the F keys, the shift key is designated as a quick switch to flip through bars and the tilde for the dev console that it would be iffy giving full access to all the keys. Maybe jagex thought it would be too hard to code at the moment?

[aspeeder]

If there any info on changing stats of our beta characters? I know we get free items, but it would be nice to test different account builds.

Apparently there will be a free item shop... I would assume potions and food will be all that you can obtain. I would like to think that players who have obtained other things like armor and weapons in the real game would know them best than if they supplied to the whole masses with free armor/weapons and asked for their opinion of each items change and play in combat. Maybe you would get free bronze-rune, but thats all i see coming as freebie test buys. That is mostly me trying to think how a jagex staff member might respond to the question. We may actually have the lose on death mechanic turned off for our accounts like jagex had for their mod accounts so they might be a more honest and thorough play feedback response.

[qfc]296-297-313-63795427[/qfc]

 

When you log in to a Beta server for the first time, your character will be cloned and a beta version of your character created. You will play on the beta servers with the beta character, any changes made to your beta character (such as loosing all your stuff) will not affect your normal character.

 

There will be a shop in the beta which you use to get free equipment of all levels to allow you to continue on testing if you happen to lose all your stuff.

 

Free Torva and Chaotic Mauls pl0x (At least for our beta characters). At least that will allow people to test new strategies in this new system with no risk of loss.

[Ambler]

Hm, so I won't be able to solo Nex. :sad: (No Yak)

Testing my pure will be fun, and I might make a new account for testing purposes.

[Low C]

Started playing WoW in anticipation of WoWscape. I'm sure it'll be nice considering how outdated the combat system was but so far it just seems like a dumbed down copy of other mmo's that's lacking because of Java.

[Ammako]

I'm sure it'll be nice considering how outdated the combat system was but so far it just seems like a dumbed down copy of other mmo's that's lacking because of Java.

But then the second part of that sentence doesn't matter because of the first part.

[Hedgehog]

If anyone would like to help:

 

http://www.xp-waste.com/combat-beta-checklist-t2602.html

[The Runar]

I just got the first scam email about this. Be careful. The scammers are being pretty clever this time; the email includes several legit links to runescape.com.

[999134]

If anyone would like to help:

 

http://www.xp-waste.com/combat-beta-checklist-t2602.html

seeing as it is a beta and subject to change, does not seem worth the effort yet.

[Sy_Accursed]

If anyone would like to help:

 

http://www.xp-waste.com/combat-beta-checklist-t2602.html

seeing as it is a beta and subject to change, does not seem worth the effort yet.

 

Things may be tweaked here and there if an issue arises but it's safe to say this is more of a PR stunt and a test of how systems hold up with thousands of players than something genuinely aimed at making any major overhauls; I mean they have the graphics and the sound in, they are like the final details and are slating for a september release.

 

So it's definitely worth the effort, even if things do get tweaked findings from this will at least put us in the ballpark of the correct formulas needing only minor tweaks once we observe what tweak Jagex made. Same would apply for tip.it staff gathering the new stats on armours and weapons, a few may be slightly tweaked and need revising but this beta basically gives them a window of several months to get that data ready to go live as soon as the update does confident that it is mostly correct.

[Hedgehog]

If anyone would like to help:

 

http://www.xp-waste.com/combat-beta-checklist-t2602.html

seeing as it is a beta and subject to change, does not seem worth the effort yet.

It's more about confirming that the formulas are the same and beginning to work out what they are if they changed than anything else.

 

It's more than worth the effort.

[Sy_Accursed]

Splicing my post from another thread since it's on-topic here on ability colour categories:

 

Blue is Magic

Yellow is Attack

Green is Ranged

Red is constitution

Black is Defence

Leaving brown as strength.

 

This is all from the newest video. When flicking through you see a panel with 2 red abilites including regenerate which must be constitution and near the start show a bunch of green abilites showing bow icons (plus as they hover over the green plus sign it shows ranged icon), they say they are going to show attack and drag out yellow stuff, then say they add a couple of def and add some from a very neutral black tab. Then at end when showing magic they are all blue icons.

 

Links for reference (need to pause them for most as its very brief views)

39 seconds Green showing ranged icon:

40 seconds Green tab with bow stuff:

41 seconds Red tab with constitution icon, also later in same second black with defence hover:

42 seconds Grey tab with shield/defence stuff, also a very very very brief hover over brown tht shows what seems like str icon and just before 43 seconds yellow shows attack hover:

43 seconds Yellow tab with attack stuff:

6min 8 seconds blue mage stuff:

 

Thought tbh you can easily suss the colours from the skill icons anyway, even more so if you think of certain sort of iconic items.

Mage hat is blue.

Defence shield is blue and grey. Blue is gone, so it's grey/black.

Attack sword is grey with yellow hilt. grey is gone, so yellow.

Constitution heart is red, so red. No items really tied to it but hitsplats are red too.

Strength fist is flesh tone which links to red and brown tones but certainly not green, red is gone so brown. Iconic items you'd probably think Bandos which has a lot of brown going on which helps match this up too.

Ranged bow has brown and green, brown is gone so green. Also in terms of iconic items robin hat and rangers boots both green.

[stonewall337]

It's not going to be your "fully rebindable" so go in the corner and start crying now :P. If youd o that now then maybe the one less person doing it on the beta release will lessen the amount whining I see.

 

Jagex is going to do things how they want. Maybe they didn't program their key bind system to cover complex keys. Maybe they thought since tabs are bound to the F keys, the shift key is designated as a quick switch to flip through bars and the tilde for the dev console that it would be iffy giving full access to all the keys. Maybe jagex thought it would be too hard to code at the moment?

 

If its too hard to code, they must have some shit programmers.

[Sylpheed]

It's not going to be your "fully rebindable" so go in the corner and start crying now :P. If youd o that now then maybe the one less person doing it on the beta release will lessen the amount whining I see.

 

Jagex is going to do things how they want. Maybe they didn't program their key bind system to cover complex keys. Maybe they thought since tabs are bound to the F keys, the shift key is designated as a quick switch to flip through bars and the tilde for the dev console that it would be iffy giving full access to all the keys. Maybe jagex thought it would be too hard to code at the moment?

 

If its too hard to code, they must have some shit programmers.

 

Regardless of how good you're own programming skills may be, you're not an employee of Jagex or have any knowledge of how Runescape is coded.

[Donnie]

It's not going to be your "fully rebindable" so go in the corner and start crying now :P. If youd o that now then maybe the one less person doing it on the beta release will lessen the amount whining I see.

 

Jagex is going to do things how they want. Maybe they didn't program their key bind system to cover complex keys. Maybe they thought since tabs are bound to the F keys, the shift key is designated as a quick switch to flip through bars and the tilde for the dev console that it would be iffy giving full access to all the keys. Maybe jagex thought it would be too hard to code at the moment?

 

If its too hard to code, they must have some shit programmers.

 

Regardless of how good you're own programming skills may be, you're not an employee of Jagex or have any knowledge of how Runescape is coded.

 

It should be easy for any half ass programmer though. The only way it would be difficult is if the code behind the scenes is a jumbled mess

[Urza285]

It's not going to be your "fully rebindable" so go in the corner and start crying now :P. If youd o that now then maybe the one less person doing it on the beta release will lessen the amount whining I see.

 

Jagex is going to do things how they want. Maybe they didn't program their key bind system to cover complex keys. Maybe they thought since tabs are bound to the F keys, the shift key is designated as a quick switch to flip through bars and the tilde for the dev console that it would be iffy giving full access to all the keys. Maybe jagex thought it would be too hard to code at the moment?

 

If its too hard to code, they must have some shit programmers.

 

Regardless of how good you're own programming skills may be, you're not an employee of Jagex or have any knowledge of how Runescape is coded.

 

It should be easy for any half ass programmer though. The only way it would be difficult is if the code behind the scenes is a jumbled mess

Submit your application then. It's always harder to practice what you preach. It's also harder to code something than explain the concept as well.

[Veiva]

It's not going to be your "fully rebindable" so go in the corner and start crying now :P. If youd o that now then maybe the one less person doing it on the beta release will lessen the amount whining I see.

 

Jagex is going to do things how they want. Maybe they didn't program their key bind system to cover complex keys. Maybe they thought since tabs are bound to the F keys, the shift key is designated as a quick switch to flip through bars and the tilde for the dev console that it would be iffy giving full access to all the keys. Maybe jagex thought it would be too hard to code at the moment?

 

If its too hard to code, they must have some shit programmers.

 

Regardless of how good you're own programming skills may be, you're not an employee of Jagex or have any knowledge of how Runescape is coded.

 

It should be easy for any half ass programmer though. The only way it would be difficult is if the code behind the scenes is a jumbled mess

Submit your application then. It's always harder to practice what you preach. It's also harder to code something than explain the concept as well.

 

Critic: "That movie sucked!"

 

Director: "Well, why don't YOU try and make a better movie?"

 

Critic: "Er, what? That's not my job!"

 

To be brutally honest, I dunno if you program or whatever, but binding keys is like... 1st year hobbyist game dev stuff!

 

And before you critique me, I'm not an idiot... I'll drop you a few lines!

 

https://github.com/aaronbolyard/egoboo-wii

http://commaexcess.com/algae/ & http://commaexcess.com/articles/6/vector-graphics-on-the-gpu

http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/610160

 

plus more I can't be bothered to link to.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Probably run into some trouble because the ctrl key is already bound to running, and its only other use is camera rotation in MA.

[Urza285]

It's not going to be your "fully rebindable" so go in the corner and start crying now :P. If youd o that now then maybe the one less person doing it on the beta release will lessen the amount whining I see.

 

Jagex is going to do things how they want. Maybe they didn't program their key bind system to cover complex keys. Maybe they thought since tabs are bound to the F keys, the shift key is designated as a quick switch to flip through bars and the tilde for the dev console that it would be iffy giving full access to all the keys. Maybe jagex thought it would be too hard to code at the moment?

 

If its too hard to code, they must have some shit programmers.

 

Regardless of how good you're own programming skills may be, you're not an employee of Jagex or have any knowledge of how Runescape is coded.

 

It should be easy for any half ass programmer though. The only way it would be difficult is if the code behind the scenes is a jumbled mess

Submit your application then. It's always harder to practice what you preach. It's also harder to code something than explain the concept as well.

 

Critic: "That movie sucked!"

 

Director: "Well, why don't YOU try and make a better movie?"

 

Critic: "Er, what? That's not my job!"

 

To be brutally honest, I dunno if you program or whatever, but binding keys is like... 1st year hobbyist game dev stuff!

 

And before you critique me, I'm not an idiot... I'll drop you a few lines!

 

https://github.com/aaronbolyard/egoboo-wii

http://commaexcess.com/algae/ & http://commaexcess.com/articles/6/vector-graphics-on-the-gpu

 

plus more I can't be bothered to link to.

I didnt critique you... Besides you are totally overlooking gameplay and game concept. Though you may be right just because it may be easy doesn't mean much in the sight of these two things. Jagex has an concept of game play they are trying to update and keep in line with their views. Jagex AI for NPCs is honestly SHIT compared to what they currently have going against them let alone what they are attempting to test and roll out. At the moment key binds and the combat overhaul are just a slight view of what lies beyond the future goals for the games complexity.

[Platinum_Myr]

The issue is that they are dealing with legacy and complex systems. Jagex doesn't have the ability to simply scrap old work. They have to fit within whatever framework they have. Also, its a lot more difficult to grab keybindings for every OS they support. It isn't exactly cross platform. (Its not part of the java base libraries that I am aware of..)

 

Definitely I have to stick with that you may not have the knowledge. It isn't just a matter of "can" it be done. It's a matter of what would it gain them to add complexity.

[Urza285]

The issue is that they are dealing with legacy and complex systems. Jagex doesn't have the ability to simply scrap old work. They have to fit within whatever framework they have. Also, its a lot more difficult to grab keybindings for every OS they support. It isn't exactly cross platform. (Its not part of the java base libraries that I am aware of..)

 

Definitely I have to stick with that you may not have the knowledge. It isn't just a matter of "can" it be done. It's a matter of what would it gain them to add complexity.

Why the hell couldn't I think of legacy?! That was also something I kept feeling in the back of my mind, but couldn't put it to words.

[Sylpheed]

The issue is that they are dealing with legacy and complex systems. Jagex doesn't have the ability to simply scrap old work. They have to fit within whatever framework they have. Also, its a lot more difficult to grab keybindings for every OS they support. It isn't exactly cross platform. (Its not part of the java base libraries that I am aware of..)

 

Definitely I have to stick with that you may not have the knowledge. It isn't just a matter of "can" it be done. It's a matter of what would it gain them to add complexity.

 

Exactly. However simple it may be, if it isn't possible in the beta there is obviously multiple reasons beyond their programmers being sheite.

[Sy_Accursed]

The issue is that they are dealing with legacy and complex systems. Jagex doesn't have the ability to simply scrap old work. They have to fit within whatever framework they have. Also, its a lot more difficult to grab keybindings for every OS they support. It isn't exactly cross platform. (Its not part of the java base libraries that I am aware of..)

 

Definitely I have to stick with that you may not have the knowledge. It isn't just a matter of "can" it be done. It's a matter of what would it gain them to add complexity.

 

Exactly. However simple it may be, if it isn't possible in the beta there is obviously multiple reasons beyond their programmers being sheite.

 

The bit I find funny is, given that these developers and programmers are all uni graduates some with a good 15 odd years experience and they have managed to code an entire mmorpg with thousands of players (something a lot of these coding know-it-all 'oh it's easy' types probably couldn't manage) surely anyone with an ounce of common sense would realise that something like keybinding isn't being limited due to developers not being able to do it as they are 'rubbish' there is obviously some other reason based on the system it is being built in to.

 

I mean even at a glance it's obvious other keybinds are used for set things in-game already, so whilst it may be easy to write a full rebindable bar it would immediately throw up conflict issues for the f keys, shift key, control key, tild key etc that all already have a bound unchangeable function. Not to mention the fact there must be some key/button bound for the purpose of allowing us to jump between chat and action bar and as other mentioned legacy of a decade of engine code being patched to do new things doesn't make for the simplest of compatibility.

[Blutters]

After finally watching that vid, I just really want the beta to be here already. Anyone see what it said when he hovered over the different equipment? The Zamorak Kiteshield had an armor rating of 2400 or something. I hope that's just some sort of "quick info" and not an indication that they're melding all melee combat types into one. Although, at that, I could have sworn that they said previously that different styles and magic elements would be far more important than they are now.

Unrelated, but I'm hoping that I'll be able to fight competently in Necro after the update. But if they're releasing much easier to get/make mage armor, I doubt they'll be focusing on niche armors as much... :mellow:

[Cheat]

I've got a feeling they said style would be much more important in PvM situations but irrelevant in PvP situations suggesting that your own armor would not have style dependant defences.. I'll try and find a qoute because I've heard so much about the EoC second and first hand that this could just be misinformation.

[Platinum_Myr]

I would be surprised if it didn't matter in PvP.