The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Quyneax]

I've got a feeling they said style would be much more important in PvM situations but irrelevant in PvP situations suggesting that your own armor would not have style dependant defences.. I'll try and find a qoute because I've heard so much about the EoC second and first hand that this could just be misinformation.

I'm not even sure monsters use different attack styles currently (anything that hits gano better than torag, with melee?). Wouldn't surprise me at all if they removed stab/slash/crush defence. I wonder what will happen to summoning defence though.

 

Also important, cannon dps. If monsters get rebalanced to 5k+ lp specials, the cannon better hit thousands or slayer will get a lot slower :(.

[Blutters]

I've got a feeling they said style would be much more important in PvM situations but irrelevant in PvP situations suggesting that your own armor would not have style dependant defences.. I'll try and find a qoute because I've heard so much about the EoC second and first hand that this could just be misinformation.

I'm not even sure monsters use different attack styles currently (anything that hits gano better than torag, with melee?). Wouldn't surprise me at all if they removed stab/slash/crush defence. I wonder what will happen to summoning defence though.

 

Also important, cannon dps. If monsters get rebalanced to 5k+ lp specials, the cannon better hit thousands or slayer will get a lot slower :(.

I remember one of my friends advising me not to use Gano VS Sanfreet because his tail appears to be a stab attack. Other than that, I've no idea. I remember feeling like I was hit harder (or more more often if you want to split hairs) by Ankous and Brutes and such in DG while wearing plate but that's hardly conclusive. If monsters didn't use different melee styles though, what would your defense VS them be based on?

[Quyneax]

I've got a feeling they said style would be much more important in PvM situations but irrelevant in PvP situations suggesting that your own armor would not have style dependant defences.. I'll try and find a qoute because I've heard so much about the EoC second and first hand that this could just be misinformation.

I'm not even sure monsters use different attack styles currently (anything that hits gano better than torag, with melee?). Wouldn't surprise me at all if they removed stab/slash/crush defence. I wonder what will happen to summoning defence though.

 

Also important, cannon dps. If monsters get rebalanced to 5k+ lp specials, the cannon better hit thousands or slayer will get a lot slower :(.

I remember one of my friends advising me not to use Gano VS Sanfreet because his tail appears to be a stab attack. Other than that, I've no idea. I remember feeling like I was hit harder (or more more often if you want to split hairs) by Ankous and Brutes and such in DG while wearing plate but that's hardly conclusive. If monsters didn't use different melee styles though, what would your defense VS them be based on?

I'm guessing all monsters use crush attacks regardless of "real-world"/"logical" styles for their respective appendages, due to crush being the default unarmed style. Just a thought though, I have no proof whatsoever.

 

Maybe Barrows Brothers and other monsters with visible, existing equipment actually use different attack styles, which should/would mean Guthan hits fairly well on ganodermic.

[Crossed_Body]

I'm guessing all monsters use crush attacks regardless of "real-world"/"logical" styles for their respective appendages, due to crush being the default unarmed style. Just a thought though, I have no proof whatsoever.

 

Maybe Barrows Brothers and other monsters with visible, existing equipment actually use different attack styles, which should/would mean Guthan hits fairly well on ganodermic.

 

Aren't weapons/armors modeled directly onto NPCs?

[Sy_Accursed]

I am curious how far they gone with the str & weakness thing, one would hope they went as far to making it fit for attacks (since they wan us using more diverse stuff) so like say fire giants might be using crush attacks whilst a ice giant might use slash etc.

Part of me wonders if armours will have more type specific stats. Eg melee just has general bad mage def but mage and maybe range has element specific defence.

[Sir_Squab]

Honest opinion is that special attack was such a generic name that it had to be changed to something more refreshing and appealing to combat.

 

I don't really give a squat for the name, it could be named Gigantic Testes Bar of Actions and it wouldn't matter to me. I'm mainly talking about its functions :P

 

You'd probably like it more like that, just admit it ;)

 

Bye-bye Surgeboxes.

 

Edit - [qfc]296-297-224-63794252[/qfc]

:sad:

 

Honestly... I get my Surgebox tokens back, so I'm not disappointed, and this might make the Celestial Staff far more worthwhile. At any rate, Magic has needed a significant reduction in rune costs for a long time.

[aspeeder]

I am curious how far they gone with the str & weakness thing, one would hope they went as far to making it fit for attacks (since they wan us using more diverse stuff) so like say fire giants might be using crush attacks whilst a ice giant might use slash etc.

Part of me wonders if armours will have more type specific stats. Eg melee just has general bad mage def but mage and maybe range has element specific defence.

I'm fairly certain fire giants already use different attack styles based on the weapons they're carrying. I can't find the exact dialogue, but I recall one of the higher slayer masters saying that you should act according to the different weapons that the giants are carrying and change your style (Though that might say more about their defensive differences than their offensive differences).

[Blutters]

I'm guessing all monsters use crush attacks regardless of "real-world"/"logical" styles for their respective appendages, due to crush being the default unarmed style. Just a thought though, I have no proof whatsoever.

 

Maybe Barrows Brothers and other monsters with visible, existing equipment actually use different attack styles, which should/would mean Guthan hits fairly well on ganodermic.

 

Aren't weapons/armors modeled directly onto NPCs?

If this were the case why would JaGEx bother with Chainbodies/skirts in DG? More importantly, why aren't we all binding Primal Chainbodies for their insane crush def? :P

Of course, perhaps older monsters do all use crush. It'd be pretty hard to figure out considering most armors with good melee def don't differ enough between categories, except Gano/maybe Torso.

[NukeMarine]

After finally watching that vid, I just really want the beta to be here already. Anyone see what it said when he hovered over the different equipment? The Zamorak Kiteshield had an armor rating of 2400 or something. I hope that's just some sort of "quick info" and not an indication that they're melding all melee combat types into one. Although, at that, I could have sworn that they said previously that different styles and magic elements would be far more important than they are now.

Unrelated, but I'm hoping that I'll be able to fight competently in Necro after the update. But if they're releasing much easier to get/make mage armor, I doubt they'll be focusing on niche armors as much... :mellow:

I posted this earlier, but here's all the info I got from the hovering on the video.

 

Strike - 100% damage w/ 10% chance of critical. Lvl 1 atk. 5 second coolddown.

Charge - 3 second stun. Opponents immune to stun suffer 300% damage. Lvl 5 atk. 20 second cooldown

Sever - 100% damage, 10% reduction of opponent's damage for 10 seconds. Lvl 10 atk. 30 second cooldown

Smash - 100% damage, ignores prayer. Lvl 20 atk (????? required). 10 second cooldown

Backhand - 3 second stun, opponents immune to stun suffer 300% max damage. Lvl 25 atk. 15 second cooldown

Hemorrhage - Cause 200% damage over 10 seconds. If opponent moves, it's 300% damage. Lvl 30 atk. 30 second cooldown

Whirlwind - Threshold, area attack for 200% damage to adjacent targets. Lvl 40 atk (2h melee required). 20 second cooldown

Overpower - Ultimate, damage 25% opponents max lifepoints. Lvl 45 atk. 60 second cooldown

Meteor strike - Ultimate, damage 40% opponents max lifepoints if they're over 50%. Lvl 55 atk (???? required). 60 second cooldown

 

Bash - 3 second stun. Target immune to stun suffer 300% weapon damage. Lvl 25 Def (shield required). 15 second cooldown

Reflect - Reflect 50% of damage back on the attacker. Lvl 30 def (shield required). 20 second cooldown.

Revenge - Threshold, any attack you receive boosts your damage for 10% for 10 seconds, stacks to 100%. Lvl 40 def. 20 second cooldown.

 

Dragon 2h: Damage 624, Bonus 600, Style Slash, Type Melee, Speed ???

Dragon Scim: Damage 257, Bonus 600, Style Slash, Type Melee, Speed Fastest

Zamarok Kiteshield: Armour 1200, Class Melee

[brunokiller]

Well if all abilities max around level 45, that's good news for turm zerkers lol.

[Jonanananas]

Well if all abilities max around level 45, that's good news for turm zerkers lol.

 

They definitely don't, you can be sure of that.

[Platinum_Myr]

Dragon 2h: Damage 624, Bonus 600, Style Slash, Type Melee, Speed ???

Dragon Scim: Damage 257, Bonus 600, Style Slash, Type Melee, Speed Fastest

Zamarok Kiteshield: Armour 1200, Class Melee

 

These bonuses seem to me to show that there may be a huge change in the formulas. Rather than calling it +Slash or +Strength it says Damage and Bonus, and Armour

 

Could get very interesting!

[Saradomin_Mage]

http://services.runescape.com/m=news/og-blog-tradition-and-challenge

 

Were also changing the way that combat levels are calculated. We are scrapping the current 138 max design and replacing it with a calculation thats far simpler to understand:

 

X + Defence level +2 = your Combat level.

(X = your highest stat level from Magic, Ranged, Attack or Strength).

 

This makes the new max combat level 200!

 

Okay.

 

To further encourage everyone to fight creatures designed for their level, we are removing the Combat XP for fighting creatures more than 30 levels below you. Drops and Slayer XP will remain the same. As I mentioned above, all NPCs are being rebalanced with this in mind. Since we dont have any top-end training creatures in the game (yet), players with a very high Combat level will find this 30 level range increased to 50 - at least until we release some bigger training dungeons! Youll still be able to train on creatures that are much less powerful than you, but training on things like rock crabs and cows will now only be effective at low levels - as it should be. We will be adding faster and more numerous spawn points all over the game to cope with the change.

 

Wtf????

[xSxqPowerx]

Well, I guess I will be level 200.

Combat formula released in the latest blog:

X + Defence level +2 = your Combat level.

(X = your highest stat level from Magic, Ranged, Attack or Strength).

 

I feel like this will create some weird situations where players with a higher attack than strength level will end up being really weak, unless the special abilities unlocked through defence make up for that.

 

Apparently you will only get experience for things within 30 levels of you (50 at first so they can add more monsters). Hmm. Not sure how I feel about this. I don't think there are currently enough monsters around our level for this to really be viable, but I guess that's why they're expanding the range temporarily until they add higher level training dungeons. Monster combat levels will also be reworked so we don't know how this will go yet. I guess the most glaring issue I see is that people who want to train slayer will occasionally get assigned a task of monsters that are a bit lower level, so you might end up doing some slayer tasks where you get no combat exp?

 

Prayer, summoning, constitution no longer have any effect on combat level. Well, I feel like bones and summoning ingredients are going to skyrocket for a bit as pures try to catch up. Pretty much everyone will have to have 95 prayer to keep up. Summoning won't change much I guess.

 

 

From a personal standpoint, I'm not sure if I really like the combat calculation. All of those people who were previously 130 something and missing some summoning or prayer levels will jump to max level, and there won't really be a good way to assess their potential (especially in pvm) without looking them up on the highscores. I also take some pride in the fact that I was one of the first people to reach 138, but that's more of a sentimental reason :mrgreen:

[Cheat]

The second one seems completely dumb no-one with particularly high level combat trains on anything that low in combat level. Though I do hope a lot of combat levels for creatures are adjusted because a level 138/200 wouldn't be getting much experience for a lot of slayer tasks. Seems like my plan to max combat BEFORE the release of this update is a good one :) .

[Sy_Accursed]

http://services.runescape.com/m=news/og-blog-tradition-and-challenge

 

We’re also changing the way that combat levels are calculated. We are scrapping the current 138 max design and replacing it with a calculation that’s far simpler to understand:

 

X + Defence level +2 = your Combat level.

(X = your highest stat level from Magic, Ranged, Attack or Strength).

 

This makes the new max combat level 200!

 

Okay.

 

To further encourage everyone to fight creatures designed for their level, we are removing the Combat XP for fighting creatures more than 30 levels below you. Drops and Slayer XP will remain the same. As I mentioned above, all NPCs are being rebalanced with this in mind. Since we don’t have any top-end training creatures in the game (yet), players with a very high Combat level will find this 30 level range increased to 50 - at least until we release some bigger training dungeons! You’ll still be able to train on creatures that are much less powerful than you, but training on things like rock crabs and cows will now only be effective at low levels - as it should be. We will be adding faster and more numerous spawn points all over the game to cope with the change.

 

Wtf????

 

I don;t think I'd mind that 2nd bit too much...if it did not ass up a lot of slayer. Eg the top guys still assign velds etc.

 

Also lvl 189 combat woo lol

[Jeffery]

So much for being maxed combat now..

[Rick James]

So prayer and constitution don't affect combat level now?

 

The new pures will train soulwars to 99 constitution/prayer, and keep attack and strength equal.

 

Whelp. I'll probably start training my rune pure to another maxed account.

[Platinum_Myr]

I think the combat level thing is.. odd. At least it's simpler? I hope that we can see more data in the PVP systems?

 

As for pures... I think the abilities and possibly the basic combat formulas will be changed so much that it will be a different system entirely.

[Sy_Accursed]

R.I.P level 3 skillers. New min is level 4.

[sohkmj1]

Removing exp from weak monsters seems incredibly stupid. I agree with less experience, yes, but wholesale removal is ridiculous. If they're going to do this, then fighting strong monsters should give significantly more experience then they do now.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Removing exp from weak monsters seems incredibly stupid. I agree with less experience, yes, but wholesale removal is ridiculous. If they're going to do this, then fighting strong monsters should give significantly more experience then they do now.

Well ... it kinda does :P

But yeah they should have just scaled back low-levelled monster Xp instead of axing it completely ...

 

 

EDIT : This just in, probably only applies to Slayer targets though

 

Hi all,

 

I seen a fair few posts turn up about people worrying about not getting Slayer xp from low level tasks. To clarify the recent blog post, in the new system, Slayer XP is not affected by being over 30 levels above the target NPC. It is only the traditional combat XP that is affected in this way: Attack, Strength, Defence, Ranged, Magic and Constitution. If you are 30 or more levels above your target, you will receive reduced XP in these stats from killing them, as opposed to none at all. Slayer XP is not reduced.

 

Further clarification - all NPC's in the game have been given new combat levels. There should now always be something good to train on for full XP for your combat level.

 

[qfc]296-297-574-63808127[/qfc]

[Platinum_Myr]

Removing exp from weak monsters seems incredibly stupid. I agree with less experience, yes, but wholesale removal is ridiculous. If they're going to do this, then fighting strong monsters should give significantly more experience then they do now.

 

Strong monsters should give more xp, that would be awesome. Looks like I better get to maxing combat right away though... I'm going to end up being combat level 198, so only creatures from 148 and down... Ofcourse if all the creatures get a similar increase in combat as well... It might not be so bad.

[Sy_Accursed]

Removing exp from weak monsters seems incredibly stupid. I agree with less experience, yes, but wholesale removal is ridiculous. If they're going to do this, then fighting strong monsters should give significantly more experience then they do now.

Well ... it kinda does :P

But yeah they should have just scaled back low-levelled monster Xp instead of axing it completely ...

 

 

EDIT : This just in, probably only applies to Slayer targets though

 

Hi all,

 

I seen a fair few posts turn up about people worrying about not getting Slayer xp from low level tasks. To clarify the recent blog post, in the new system, Slayer XP is not affected by being over 30 levels above the target NPC. It is only the traditional combat XP that is affected in this way: Attack, Strength, Defence, Ranged, Magic and Constitution. If you are 30 or more levels above your target, you will receive reduced XP in these stats from killing them, as opposed to none at all. Slayer XP is not reduced.

 

Further clarification - all NPC's in the game have been given new combat levels. There should now always be something good to train on for full XP for your combat level.

 

[qfc]296-297-574-63808127[/qfc]

 

Translation:

Don't worry when you get given something like velds (assuming mutated aren't unlocked for you) and they are too low for you to get proper xp you can still do your task for slayer xp!

Just pretend a major part of training slayer isn't gaining combat xp whilst exploring a variety of creatures.

 

Imo this limit could be a good thing to an extent, but i agree should be reduced xp not 0 xp BUT slayer tasks should be exempt. So if you get assigned wild dogs burthorping a task you should get ur cmb xp til task is completed.

[Quyneax]

The new combat level is ridiculous if it doesn't reflect prayer/summoning/hp and such. The formula also doesn't give a good image of how strong someone is.

The no-xp rule is stupid as well. Right now there's one monster worth training on, and that's the dagannoth sentinel, which luckily is level 193. So I guess if that stays at 170+ combat there's no problem. But slayer will be a problem. Right now the 170+ combat monsters somewhat worth killing are dark beasts, ice strykes, iron/steel/mith/black dragons, black demons. There's mutated velds, spectres, dagannoth, hellhounds, suqah etc. way below that level. Of course a rebalance might put these creatures at a higher level but good slayer monsters are generally low defence.

 

I see a lot of potential to mess this up now :(.

 

Edit: Nevermind, ninja'd by above post. Guess limited xp is alright, but it better be only a slight cut.