The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Mercifull]

Hello all,

 

A brief one from me today, just to let everyone know that with the introduction of dual-wielding in the combat update, you will need to use new off-hand specific items in your off-hand. For example, you can't just buy two dragon scimitars and put one in each hand, you will need the normal dragon scimitar for your main hand, and a new off-hand dragon scimitar for your other hand. Off-hand items will be available from a variety of sources, but mainly through player smithing/fletching/crafting. In the case of the dragon scimitar, the off-hand version will just be purchasable from the monkey scimitar shop.

 

I thought I would just post on this so people don't go spending all their Dungeoneering tokens on another Chaotic Rapier, as you'll need to wait and buy the new Off-hand Chaotic Rapier when it is released.

 

Have fun with dual-wielding on Tuesday - not long to go now!

So you CAN dual wield rapiers, but you'll have to buy a whole new one not use any old one.

[@Dan3HitU]

Don't forget in video you can wield a melee weapon and crossbow, that will complicate matters as to which prayer/ability to use.

What makes me more excited, is now just how tough and amazing new boss NPCs will be, knowing that we can prepare for all 3 methods of combat, boss NPCs now will (in theory) have no limitations.

[highlanders]

Too bad this game doesn't have guns, Dante-style handgun + sword that would be epic.

 

Dual crossbows looks good but doesn't make any sense. How are you supposed to wind it up when your other hand is also holding one.

[@Dan3HitU]

In reference to the off hand weapon news from ModRathe, wonder what reqs. they will have, such as can you wield OH Drag scim. without completing MM etc. and will they have a def. req to use also

The thing what springs to my mind is; no, maybe a Strength requirement for each off-hand item though (left hand).

 

As for completing the Quest, I'd say yes, you must complete the quest, otherwise people won't do quests but will be able to use the best gear.

[crazycdcm]

Hello all, A brief one from me today, just to let everyone know that with the introduction of dual-wielding in the combat update, you will need to use new off-hand specific items in your off-hand. For example, you can't just buy two dragon scimitars and put one in each hand, you will need the normal dragon scimitar for your main hand, and a new off-hand dragon scimitar for your other hand. Off-hand items will be available from a variety of sources, but mainly through player smithing/fletching/crafting. In the case of the dragon scimitar, the off-hand version will just be purchasable from the monkey scimitar shop. I thought I would just post on this so people don't go spending all their Dungeoneering tokens on another Chaotic Rapier, as you'll need to wait and buy the new Off-hand Chaotic Rapier when it is released. Have fun with dual-wielding on Tuesday - not long to go now!

So you CAN dual wield rapiers, but you'll have to buy a whole new one not use any old one.

 

 

Aha that confirms my suspicion of there being off-hand versions of weapons. Seems a missed opportunity to just sell them in a shop.. Maybe out of beta when they have that larger training dungeon they speak of, they could be rare drops there.

[Ruinous Edge]

In reference to the off hand weapon news from ModRathe, wonder what reqs. they will have, such as can you wield OH Drag scim. without completing MM etc. and will they have a def. req to use also

The thing what springs to my mind is; no, maybe a Strength requirement for each off-hand item though (left hand).

 

As for completing the Quest, I'd say yes, you must complete the quest, otherwise people won't do quests but will be able to use the best gear.

Upon further thinking I am inclined to agree about the str req over def, but would it be like dragon OH's require 60 str like the weapons require 60 attack etc.

And also with them being off-hand, would there stats suffer possibly?

[@Dan3HitU]

Upon further thinking I am inclined to agree about the str req over def, but would it be like dragon OH's require 60 str like the weapons require 60 attack etc.

And also with them being off-hand, would there stats suffer possibly?

I'm not sure, only time will tell.

I think the only way they could even allow dual-wielding is to make Defence simply stronger, much stronger, I mean if you look at RuneScape how it is now your average +100 Strength/Attack bonuses easily tear through +300 Defence bonuses, so in theory a +200 Strength/Attack offence is simply going to kill you with no fighting chance what so ever, but during the video they did constantly say if you use dual-wielding your open to Attack which is fair enough, but leaves me to believe that Shields themselves will play a huge part in the game, seeing as no one really uses them at all now (lets be honest, we all use Defenders or an anti-dragon shield because we have too).

[Quyneax]

I really like how they found a use for Excalibur as the best (non-degradable, presumably) off-hand weapon. Kinda changes the entire style of the weapon, but it's still useful, until you get another rapier.

 

The 150% dps with two-handed weapons corresponds to the same dps for 4 and 6 tick weapons (e.g. rapier and maul) so I think it's perfectly fair to do, provided the accuracy/defence+overkill tradeoff is balanced*.

 

Hybrid dual wielding is awesome and I hope it will work for all style combinations, and work well (armour-wise too).

 

Higher max = more overkill, so fast, low-hitting weapons are better @ the same dps. One-handed weapons also have the advantage that you can dual-wield or use a shield, so 2h weapons need to be waaay more accurate to make up for that.

 

Edit@above: 100 attack/strength doesn't tear through 300 defence, and don't forget that strength bonus tears through hp, not defence. In a torva vs. torva melee fight, you'll have ridiculously low accuracy (cls+divine or maul/divine flashing both).

[crazycdcm]

Everyone is just assuming dual-wielding under the current system.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. As for training xp rates, we cannot say it will drastically increase them. All Jagex need to do is call dual wielding the new maximum efficiency gear for training, compare it to our maximum, and adjust the xp rates to match.

[Ruinous Edge]

Question is would Excalibur still be worth it, when they remove it's special? or would it's healing ability be locked to only active while OH Excalibur is wielded? thus making it useful still, because i'm sure currently it only has stats = addy long

[crazycdcm]

Question is would Excalibur still be worth it, when they remove it's special? or would it's healing ability be locked to only active while OH Excalibur is wielded? thus making it useful still, because i'm sure currently it only has stats = addy long

 

They said it is being boosted to the stats of a whip, and being the offhand version of a whip. I daresay it will still be useful.

 

They say there are heal over time abilities coming, although nothing is mentioned about their use out of combat.

[Quyneax]

Question is would Excalibur still be worth it, when they remove it's special? or would it's healing ability be locked to only active while OH Excalibur is wielded? thus making it useful still, because i'm sure currently it only has stats = addy long

They confirmed in the video that due to graphic issues, they couldn't allow dual wield whips. However EEE will be the off-hand version of the whip.

 

Edit: ninja :(.

[Ishamael]

Dual wielding crossbows throws me through a loop because of how unrealistic it is but I guess the "it's a game" excuse works.

 

Because dragons and giants are realistic, right?

[Ruinous Edge]

Ahh thanks, I viewed video w/o sound, so missed that bit, defo worth holding onto my EnhancedExcalibur then :D

[Sir_Squab]

Too bad this game doesn't have guns, Dante-style handgun + sword that would be epic.

 

Dual crossbows looks good but doesn't make any sense. How are you supposed to wind it up when your other hand is also holding one.

 

I fail to see how holding a crossbow in each hand and firing them is worse then holding a crossbow in one hand and firing it while your other hand is holding a gigantic shield.

 

All I can say is I hope they don't make dual wielding overpowered. I'm thinking tho, they might re-work the absorb mechanic and put the highest absorb into shield.

 

Like pretty much everything else mentioned in this combat update, it all depends on implementation.

 

Btw, they mentioned that they'll be re-doing excalibur stats.

[Ruinous Edge]

Dual wielding crossbows throws me through a loop because of how unrealistic it is but I guess the "it's a game" excuse works.

 

Because dragons and giants are realistic, right?

Dual crossbows isn't due to lack of realism like dragons and giants, but simply being impossible to wind a crossbow while holding another unless you use your mouth or something, or grow a third hand lol

Also Sir, most shields have a wrist strap so you can free up your hand to reload crossbow, then hold shield in your hand again

[Sir_Squab]

Dual wielding crossbows throws me through a loop because of how unrealistic it is but I guess the "it's a game" excuse works.

 

Because dragons and giants are realistic, right?

Dual crossbows isn't due to lack of realism like dragons and giants, but simply being impossible to wind a crossbow while holding another unless you use your mouth or something, or grow a third hand lol

 

Again, what about a one-handed crossbow while your other hand holds a gigantic shield. Lol.

[Quyneax]

Dual wielding crossbows throws me through a loop because of how unrealistic it is but I guess the "it's a game" excuse works.

Because dragons and giants are realistic, right?

Yes, they are. In the sense that they are consistent with the laws of the game universe as far as we know. We also know most basic laws of nature seem to be in effect, which begs the question how we are able to reload a crossbow without hands.

[Ruinous Edge]

Look at my edit lol ^

Also Sir, most shields have a wrist strap so you can free up your hand to reload crossbow, then hold shield in your hand again

[Sy_Accursed]

Dual wielding crossbows throws me through a loop because of how unrealistic it is but I guess the "it's a game" excuse works.

 

Because dragons and giants are realistic, right?

Dual crossbows isn't due to lack of realism like dragons and giants, but simply being impossible to wind a crossbow while holding another unless you use your mouth or something, or grow a third hand lol

 

Again, what about a one-handed crossbow while your other hand holds a gigantic shield. Lol.

 

It's not that unrealistic there are examples of 'automatic' crossbows from history, of course much later than normal ones and rarer but using some sort of spring type mechanism and a bolt rack (think karils) they could self-reset and load a bolt.

 

And of course one must always factor in willing suspension of disbelief because it is a fictional fantasy game, I mean hello??? we have a giant 360 degree rotating automated canon, them there Dwarves can do a lot of awesome shizzle.

[@Dan3HitU]

I've just thought of something:

 

Does this now mean all weapons will be given the option to do this:

 

Train Attack

Train Strength

Train Defence

Train Controlled

 

Otherwise you'll (which may be a good idea also) have say the Whip on Attack but the Dragon Scimitar training Strength.

[Alg]

And of course one must always factor in willing suspension of disbelief because it is a fictional fantasy game

Indeed. Maybe I haven't used a crossbow in a while, but we've never had to reload them in the current system where you can wield a crossbow with a book, and nobody has been bothered by it. Why start now? :razz:

[Poppe]

Dual wielding crossbows throws me through a loop because of how unrealistic it is but I guess the "it's a game" excuse works.

 

Because dragons and giants are realistic, right?

 

In all honesty, yes.

 

Being mythical creatures they fall into the category of "believable." Mythical creatures have some mix of realizm to them and in many ways is what makes them cores of fantasy games ;).

 

The unrealistic element people don't like is they don't see how its possible to duel wield something that is suppose to be wound up for each shot and a bolt put in place. I think to take the unrealistic "edge" off of it is to make them enchanted crossbows or repeating crossbows (ammo stored within and somehow able to refire themselves). Seems another core of fantasy games is make something magic and the unrealistic argument can usually go away :P

 

---

 

I love range/melee hybrid. It is how I've warred for years from RSC style f2p matches to RSB style clan war matches so having the ability to duel wield say a rapier and a (magic) offhand crossbow for slayer thrills me :P. Not to mention it should be fun with the vanguard hybrid armor in some mini games. I wonder how well it will factor into slayer experience with using bow a rapier and a crossbow for the exp per hour for melee and range, sounds like it should be pretty interesting.

 

(Edit: took forever for my post to actually load and be posted so super late on the comment but I'll leave it none the less :P)

[Ruinous Edge]

I've just thought of something:

 

Does this now mean all weapons will be given the option to do this:

 

Train Attack

Train Strength

Train Defence

Train Controlled

 

Otherwise you'll (which may be a good idea also) have say the Whip on Attack but the Dragon Scimitar training Strength.

Think it was confirmed in BTS #5 or #4, you select the xp gain on all weapons

[Quyneax]

I've just thought of something:

 

Does this now mean all weapons will be given the option to do this:

 

Train Attack

Train Strength

Train Defence

Train Controlled

 

Otherwise you'll (which may be a good idea also) have say the Whip on Attack but the Dragon Scimitar training Strength.

I don't know about controlled but it was confirmed that all weapons will be able to train all stats associated with them. So magic/ranged will be given the option to train pure defence as well, whips will be able to train strength etc.