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@Dan3HitU

Legacy Mode

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We want players to use Evolution of Combat because they want to, not because they have to. Last week, we announced some big upgrades to Evolution of Combat, which I’m confident will really improve the system. But we’re also planning to offer an alternative for players who just can’t get on with EoC and instead want old combat.

Today we’re launching a poll for a Legacy Mode which would bring back the majority of the old combat gameplay and interfaces, in the modern game alongside EoC. The poll starts today and players have the next two weeks to vote on whether we should start developing Legacy Mode.

 

 

[spoiler=Why now?]Why now?

 

Power to the Players isn’t just a slogan; it’s our new ethos. It’s about the community having a voice, and it’s about us delivering what you want.

In the New Year, we announced in-game weekly content polls and the response was amazingly positive. However, one issue kept cropping up: you want the power to choose which combat system you have in the game. We’ve listened. We’re going to do something about it. I’m sorry it’s taken this long.

In all honesty we’d struggled to find a solution which could bring back the old combat gameplay in a way which didn’t affect those who do like EoC. We needed a solution that wouldn’t split the community and was also technically viable for us to support well into the future. But as we saw that there was still a widespread demand for the old combat gameplay, we knew we had to find a way. I’m confident we’ve found it.

 

 

[spoiler=What is Legacy Mode]What is Legacy Mode?

 

That solution is to create a Legacy Mode which re-creates the old combat gameplay, inside the modern game, alongside EoC. This means both the old and the new combat systems would co-exist within the same game, and you’d be able to freely switch between them.

 

Turning on Legacy Mode will change your gameplay to be like the old combat system, circa 2012. This includes things like special attacks, no action bar, no abilities and type-to-chat. It will have the old interface layout, with combat info and buttons around the mini map, with the old side-panels in the lower right, plus an option for the old fixed-window interface layout. It will not be limited by membership status, world location or server type, and in most cases players of each system will be able to play side by side.

 

There will need to a be few differences to make it compatible (and competitive) with current game, including dual wielding weapons, modern gear and inheriting the combat triangle rebalance which improved Ranged and Magic combat. There are certain features, like the old '138' combat level formula, which have an impact beyond just Legacy Mode, for which we’d need to work with the community to find a solution. That said, our aim is to make it look and play as close to the old system as possible.

 

 

[spoiler=How will it be made?]How will it be made?

 

This is an ambitious vision, and we don’t have all of the details worked out yet. This is where you come in - we’ll need the guidance of the community to make sure Legacy Mode delivers the old style of combat you’re after. If the Legacy Mode poll succeeds, we’ll start to develop this feature in collaboration with you, publishing our work-in-progress code to the beta servers, using forum input to get your requirements and running beta polls to measure whether the various elements are meeting your expectations. As with the current Combat Improvements beta, access will be open to free players.

 

Should the Legacy Mode poll succeed, we would work on it in parallel with the already announced Combat Improvements for EoC. I expect it would take at least a couple of months to have Legacy Mode ready for beta, by which time the features in the current Combat Improvements beta will mostly have been finished and launched.

 

This is obviously quite a lot of work, and would need at least a couple of developers focused on creating Legacy Mode over a number of months. That’s why we’re doing a poll before we start, and we'll poll again to make sure you’re happy Legacy Mode is ready for the live game.

 

 

My opinion:

I'd like to see a mode in between the two, Legacy Mode but will all the features of the new system such as changeable menu interfaces, this way you can arrange the screen how you like it with the benefits of all the old stuff.

The biggest thing I want back, is "type-to-chat", I hate having to press 'Enter' to enter the chat-menu then having to type, countless times I start typing and open a ridiculous amount of menus as I type fairly quick.

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The biggest thing I want back, is "type-to-chat", I hate having to press 'Enter' to enter the chat-menu then having to type, countless times I start typing and open a ridiculous amount of menus as I type fairly quick.

You can already do this. Just minimize the action bar.

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Obviously the first question one has to ask is, "How would this even work?"

Jagex's answer is, "This is an ambitious vision, and we don't have all the details worked out yet."

My answer is it won't.

They can't balance the content for one system let alone two.

 

Frankly, these polls are nothing more than an attempt at saving face by not admitting that EOC wasn't liked by the majority and it's obviously cost them.

I say stop screwing around this isn't going to work and my as well roll it back.

I find EOC to have fluidity problems at times.

On WOW I'm not bothered as much by lag and can manage 20 buttons.

ON runescape, at times I can't even figure out what my dude is doing because the animation has desync'ed.

Also, the system responds poorly to button spam and the inability to cancel certain thresholds just takes the character right out of my hands.

I don't ever feel out of control in WOW even when I have to deal with lag.

I miss the old runescape where you could be precise in your actions and the game had a complexity of it's own for those that bothered to learn timing pots, food, prayers, and gear switches.

I find old school to be a distorted version of what we once had and I think keeping EOC on as dead weight only drags the game down.

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Exclusive Legacy Mode Player

 

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I think this is a little silly, but I can't blame them for wanting to address the issue

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Hopefully this will revitalize PVP.


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i hope you're as ready to blame jagex for your own choices as you were last time

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The biggest thing I want back, is "type-to-chat", I hate having to press 'Enter' to enter the chat-menu then having to type, countless times I start typing and open a ridiculous amount of menus as I type fairly quick.

You can already do this. Just minimize the action bar.

He wants it without having to minimize the action bar. :P

 

 

On a much more serious note, I think this has come as "too little, too late".  Jagex hurt themselves when they utterly trashed the usability of the new system right from the start, for example with errors like inability to complete the training tutorial and making the immediate use of some items in the account unlike their previous use cases, which destroyed the loadouts of some players for combat entirely.  It was definitely enough to be the icing on the cake that stopped me playing any further, particularly after having to put up with multiple previous years of abuse of F2P'ers. :(

 

 

Anywho, pardon me while I walk back off into a remote Forum Games corner... I only saw this thread because it was in the top five most recently started. -.-

 

~Mr. D. V. "It would take something insanely impossible happening for me to ignore principles." Devnull


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the only hope we have is that since they're planning to prototype this in the beta servers, they'll take another poll a month after and get some opinions then


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I dont even really care that much either way however I have to agree that jagex as a company have shown they cannot handle one single combat system. I find it highly dubious that they could manage two simultaneously. It makes me concerned for the stability of essentially core game combat mechanics as time passes and updates are developed.

 

What I will add though..I dont really hate eoc but I also dramatically reduced my combat involvement once it came out. Its taken me a year of gradual forced updates that required some combat for me to start to become comfortable with it and even then I seem to still avoid it. Too much button mashing. Legacy mode might help with that but I just dont think they are competent enough...Its a nice gesture sure but they simply dont have the maturity as a company to handle this project imo. Sure they will proceed regardless...but doesnt change that they havnt shown good understanding towards what players want in regards their single combat system thats ingame now. This is someone speaking that doesnt even care that much either way as it was never a big part of my gameplay. Obviously theres a ton of people that do care because combat was a big part of their gameplay. Its certainly ambitious..Maybe they trying to bite off more than they can chew imo.

 

Hopefully they do tons of testing through beta and ask more questions...but this is jagex so.. Development costs and deadlines etc. Gotta rush it out and if its too large a bite just choke and pretend its ok. Idk tbh. We shaw see.

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It's a little too late to worry about splitting the community when you're trying to combine two incompatible styles of combat into the same game that will require constant balance. The community has been split for a very long time, and this won't rejoin them because it's simply impossible to make your game a hybrid that pleases everyone. You'll just have a hybrid game at the end of all this that barely pleases the majority of 51% and pisses off the remaining 49%, leaving you right back in the same exact place you are now.

 

This is a waste of time.

 

Why on earth would anyone want this? Why on earth, after what was done in the not-so-distant-past, would anyone trust them to get it right? Why on earth would anyone believe this would change anything for the better?

 

I'm seeing foolish idea after foolish idea voted and discussed because of this voting system and things falling to the wayside when they shouldn't. The devs minds are like a pendulum that swings from one extreme to another, with never listening to taking every whim that people spit out. I don't get it. I really don't.

 

i hope you're as ready to blame jagex for your own choices as you were last time

The blame will be there and instead it will be directed at the community at the time in addition to Jagex, rather than one or the other.

 

At the end of this Year of the Player movement, we'll be exactly where we started: a messed up game, a spiteful community, and - surprise surprise - an overwhelmingly large portion of the playerbase against the actions taken with a "compromise period" to follow.

 

I hate this. It's such a depressing thing to see.

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This is completely ridiculous... but okay, I'll go with it. I want to see what's going to happen if they do release it.

 

Also a small question, why would we want to have the old interface when we have a NIS? NIS is hardly the problem.

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This is completely ridiculous... but okay, I'll go with it. I want to see what's going to happen if they do release it.

 

Also a small question, why would we want to have the old interface when we have a NIS? NIS is hardly the problem.

I have tried to modify my interface as well as possible, but even then I can't seem to make it as comfortable as it was before. So I would gladly welcome the old interface. Though I have slowly gotten used to my new setup so it's not a big problem. But if I had the option to choose from my current setup and the old interface, I would take the old one.


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Why the hell dont they just fix eoc with their beta improvements and more. So the 2007 kids can learn to adapt for once to a game they deserve no right in deciding's direction as the eoc only adds depth from the boring point click adventure game


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The biggest thing I want back, is "type-to-chat", I hate having to press 'Enter' to enter the chat-menu then having to type, countless times I start typing and open a ridiculous amount of menus as I type fairly quick.

You can already do this. Just minimize the action bar.

 

And turn off the hotkeys ... :rolleyes:

 

Honestly, this idea is half baked ...


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Be interesting to see how exp rates would change..

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Be interesting to see how exp rates would change..

They wouldn't

 

Legacy mode would just be slower. Probably about the same as autoattacks.

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I guess it could be a way to get people who quit post EoC to try out the new conservation idea, either that or it's a huge short term cash grab. 


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Totally stupid idea. Whilst EoC is broken in so many ways, this isn't the solution. This is just momentum 2.0 and giving in to the whiners who simply can't be arsed to learn/set up their own ability bars.

What is a problem that needs fixing however is the hotkey nonsense. Runescape is a fairly simple game, yet all too often button presses don't equal the correct action in game, or by accident you've managed to enact a glitch that stops that button from working (see hitting escape to exit F# windows or the bank screen). I play Dota 2 a lot, that requires a lot more keyboard mobility and overall awareness than Runescape, and it is a far easier system to work with than Runescape. At anyone time, you can be using 10 different hotkeys to work spells/items, yet the system doesn't consistently breakdown and they don't keep [bleep]ing around with the combat mechanics to please those whiners who can't be bothered to adapt.


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I really am skeptical about this. Would a legacy mode even make it out of the beta servers? (Or worse, be trapped in some sort of development hell/limbo?)

 

I voted against it. Their time is better spent elsewhere, and EOC is what needs refining.

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Honestly, fixing the issues with EoC, and providing things like revolution is where they should focus their effort. I don't think Legacy mode will work out how they think it will.

 

Resolving the keybind issues, and fixing all the little places where enter-to-chat is not consistent. Stop randomly hiding action bar so that it doesn't let you do enter to chat.

 

Resolve the issues with keybinds not being fluid, and not responding quickly.

 

Resolve the issue that NIS canot be made to look like the old layout. Add abilities to move windows around in such a way that this works.

 

Pull out the windows that have sub-windows nad make them act like normal tabs, instead of tab within tab. Let us keybind those how we want.

 

Allow the old option-stones to be enabled.

 

Essentially, let players configure the current system to work the way they want. Don't just hack the legacy interface back in.


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And this is why I said polls for content was a bad idea. Jagex are going to divert funds away from making EOC better just to pander to the nostalgic masses. EOC has a lot of big problems but overall is a better combat system. Making two will just lead to two underdeveloped and broken combat systems.

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Relased when players are happy? 

Wasting developers time and never ending beta.


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If they are going to insist on doing it, I'd imagine it would be better for everyone involved if they just created a few legacy only worlds and be done with it. Legacy players would never be able to compete with EoC players in combat wether it be PvP or PvM so it's a pointless exercise having them both available.

 

Also I'd think having it confined to a few worlds would make it easier for legacy PvP activities to "thrive" in as much a way as they could.


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well, i was this close to buying gold premier but i guess i shouldn't bother for now


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