strilmus Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 it's not really a penalty if the time cost is imposed on every run having it take so long without any real reason for it is the most major flaw of the content, but if you would rather it stay the same without any kind of compromises just because you want it to stay the same but can't say why, i don't need to have this conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estoc Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Jad is a unique boss. His tells are very obvious and his attack speed is extremely lenient relative to other bosses. The thing that makes him special though is the absolute mind **** he puts you through when fighting him. Jad is one of the only remaining bosses that still has some risk associated with dying, and it's something that your gravestone won't protect. Remove the 'trial by fire' of the fight caves by allowing players to practice beforehand and you remove the fear of failure which is what makes Jad an amazing boss to overcome. From the empty days of hope, deny the darknessFollow my voice, we'll run far away from hereIf only to hide, to escape this lifeAnd live forever, forever in the sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorator Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I can see your reasoning, but I didn't feel like Jad was "an amazing boss to overcome." When I beat him for the first time, I mostly was just pissed that I had spent so much time overcoming such a stupid obstacle. If a practice mode could help to spare someone else that same feeling, I'm all for it. The fear of failure would still be present - even if you can beat him 100 out of 100 times in practice mode, you still have to do it again, for real this time, and with less supplies. There would definitely still be pressure. Practicing would just let you not get killed solely because you didn't know what that animation meant, or you weren't comfortable with prayer switches yet, or you weren't quite sure how the healers worked. In short, it cuts out much of the bullshit that made me feel like crap when I was trying for my first fire cape. I don't think that's a bad thing to get rid of. Obtained quest cape and base 92 before obtaining any 99s! Currently finishing out my 99s with the (long-distant) goal of comp cape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reliable Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Jad is a unique boss. His tells are very obvious and his attack speed is extremely lenient relative to other bosses. The thing that makes him special though is the absolute mind **** he puts you through when fighting him. Jad is one of the only remaining bosses that still has some risk associated with dying, and it's something that your gravestone won't protect. Remove the 'trial by fire' of the fight caves by allowing players to practice beforehand and you remove the fear of failure which is what makes Jad an amazing boss to overcome.The thing with Jad is that losing to him when you're still learning the mechanics feels more cheap than anything else. You can lose close to an hour of work simply because of one mistake that, if it's your first time fighting him, you might not even know you made, and that's going to happen for as long as it takes for you to learn prayer switching... And then some, because then you have to do it all while managing the healers. It feels great to beat him, yeah, but losing to him feels more like bullshit than something you can learn from: "I have to get better, but the only way I can get better is by wasting another hour in the (relatively effortless) caves". If it must be balanced around that period, maybe make it so that you can only attempt it once an hour, and only after you've been to the final wave at least once? I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strilmus Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 either that, or make an actual reason for it to take that long instead of slapping timers or other crap onto it which will make it feel even cheaper than it was before those previous waves don't even have anything to do with the jad fight at all, they're just shit monsters that used to be threatening but now everything about them is either useless or based on things that don't present any meaningful learning experience, such as being able to attack outside of the camera's range or spawning in random locations, crap that shifts around every time which doesn't teach anything other than "jagex employs shit design to create artificial, unreliable difficulty" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunokiller Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 those previous waves don't even have anything to do with the jad fight at all, they're just shit monsters that used to be threatening They weren't threatening in 2006 either. My blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saradomin_Mage Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 ... When Chris L said he was going to be looking over ROTS, I don't think hard mode was what we had in mind. 1 In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wkw Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 If it is bugfixes.. Yes plz Runescape player since 2005 Ego Sum Deus Quo Malum Caligo et Barathum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Requesting hardmode elvarg. *eye roll* I know the players were the ones who wanted harder content but why can't that content be new? [2:21:46 PM] Baldvin | Leik: these comp reqs are so bad [2:22:36 PM] Arceus Dark: Time to get...req'd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunokiller Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 practice mode pls My blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arceus Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Requesting hardmode elvarg. *eye roll* I know the players were the ones who wanted harder content but why can't that content be new?I haven't fought Elvarg post-EoC but I've heard it's kind of a joke and an underwhelming experience now. "Fight for what you believe in, and believe in what you're fighting for." Can games be art? --- My blog here if you want to check out my Times articles and other writings! I always appreciate comments/feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The one thing that deters me from doing Jad, despite having the gear and levels; is time. For me, it would take well over an hour and if I make one little slip, I have to start ALLLLLL over again, for a cape (that in today's standards isn't that great) and nothing more. It's like a punch in the dick. Popoto.~<3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorator Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The one thing that deters me from doing Jad, despite having the gear and levels; is time. For me, it would take well over an hour and if I make one little slip, I have to start ALLLLLL over again, for a cape (that in today's standards isn't that great) and nothing more. It's like a punch in the dick. For what it's worth, it's waaay easier now than it was when I first did it. And, as long as you aren't wearing terrible armor, it takes more than one slip to die at Jad. Grab a sign of life for your pocket slot and one or two portents of restoration, use ancients (ice and blood spells) and ganodermic or sea singer and an aura or two of your choice, and make liberal use of prayers and abilities to conserve supplies on your way there (Sacrifice, Guthix's Blessing, Regeneration, Soul Split - these all save you food. Just don't try to Soul Split while fighting Jad, heh.) If you view it less as "my reward is a fire cape which is pretty meh" and more as "my reward is access to the Fight Kiln to get the best capes in the game", it's definitely better. (Fight Kiln is ezpz in comparison, seriously. You get to heal back to full between each wave thanks to safespots and Regeneration, you know where everything spawns, and you have the crystal buffs for the hard waves.) All that being said, yeah, it's a pretty big time sink if you get to Jad and can't learn fast enough to keep up, and that's why I want to see Jad in any practice mode that gets released. Har-Aken I'd include just because there's no reason to include one and not the other, but honestly, Har-Aken is far, far, easier. Obtained quest cape and base 92 before obtaining any 99s! Currently finishing out my 99s with the (long-distant) goal of comp cape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 there's also that one app for practicing prayer switching best drops (reasonably accurate/up to date): 1x Elysian Sigil (LS), 1x Arcane Sigil (cs), 4x Armadyl Hilt (solo at 100m, 100m, 50m, and 5m), 2x Saradomin Hilt (solo at 25m), 5x Draconic Visage (34m,1.2m,1.2m) and various cs/ls/ffa Nex splits. Drygore Drops: 7 Longswords, 3 Maces, 3 Rapiers, 3 Off-hand Rapiers, 5 Off-hand Maces, 3 Off-hand LongswordsROTS Shields: 12 Seismics: 16Ascension Crossbows: 6 Spider Legs: 10Countless Armadyl armour pieces, Saradomin amulets, Dragon Hatchets, and Fremenik Rings.Range~Herblore~Construction~Constitution~Defence~Farming~Magic~Attack~Prayer~Strength~Summoning~Slayer~Mining~Dungeoneering~Firemaking~Agility~Magic Mastery~Summoning Mastery~Cooking~Smithing~Fletching~Thieving~Hunter~Woodcutting~Fishing~Runecrafting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpx Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Realistically, with all the defensive abilities we have now, plus obsidian armor and how high DPS has gotten, you can easily do fight caves without ever switching your overhead prayer. I mean, i did fight caves without attacking the healers some 5-6 years ago using karils crossbow. Nowadays it's a pushover. And fight kiln is even more of a pushover. As for being able to practice bosses, i'd really like for jagex to just keep a combat beta going endlessly. Really can't see the harm there. First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Realistically, with all the defensive abilities we have now, plus obsidian armor and how high DPS has gotten, you can easily do fight caves without ever switching your overhead prayer. I mean, i did fight caves without attacking the healers some 5-6 years ago using karils crossbow. Nowadays it's a pushover. And fight kiln is even more of a pushover.You may want to try Jad as it currently is, I think. They buffed the hell out of the healers: they heal enough that two or more can outheal you, and distracting them like you would in ye olde days doesn't work. 1 I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy_Accursed Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The one thing that deters me from doing Jad, despite having the gear and levels; is time. For me, it would take well over an hour and if I make one little slip, I have to start ALLLLLL over again, for a cape (that in today's standards isn't that great) and nothing more. It's like a punch in the dick. Of course the catch 22 of not doing it because the cape isn't that great is that you can't get any of the better capes without doing it.Best in slot for cape in melee, ranged and magic are all via kiln needing the fire cape to do.Only better choice is comp, but between the reaper title and karamja tasks again not possible without the fire cape. 1 Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills :: Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA RewardsDragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urza285 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The only tips you need for fight kiln is this: - Waves 10, 20, 30 stand north of middle rock.- Wave 34 stand south of middle rock.- Wave 35 stand north of middle rock.- Wave 35 stand south of middle rock.- Stand in a corner for wave 28, bring a pickaxe, dreadnips and kill the dills going around the outside.- Use invulnerability crystal at the beginning of every jad wave mentioned above. You should have no issues aside from wave 36 if you dont dps down both jads fast enough. If you have prayer switching issues just safe spot at the beginning of the wave with protect range on. Have both protect range and mage set on your action bar. Start each jad fight telling yourself "if he raises up hit the key under finger X/number #." If he switches attacks then do what you told yourself for range prayer. Side note: Using full obsidian reduces damage by 55% making jad hit no higher than 5k. Make full use of the elite karamja fight cave death bonus and phoenix necklaces. 2 Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [in Progress]Visit my Blog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorator Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The only tips you need for fight kiln is this: - Waves 10, 20, 30 stand north of middle rock. - Wave 34 stand south of middle rock. - Wave 35 stand north of middle rock. - Wave 35 stand south of middle rock. - Stand in a corner for wave 28, bring a pickaxe, dreadnips and kill the dills going around the outside. - Use invulnerability crystal at the beginning of every jad wave mentioned above. You should have no issues aside from wave 36 if you dont dps down both jads fast enough. If you have prayer switching issues just safe spot at the beginning of the wave with protect range on. Have both protect range and mage set on your action bar. Start each jad fight telling yourself "if he raises up hit the key under finger X/number #." If he switches attacks then do what you told yourself for range prayer. Side note: Using full obsidian reduces damage by 55% making jad hit no higher than 5k. Make full use of the elite karamja fight cave death bonus and phoenix necklaces. Eh, I'd still recommend reading over a full guide before doing Kiln, especially as to how exactly the Dills work (it doesn't matter how much damage you'd do while breaking through their armor, it just matters how many times you hit them - each hit has a chance to crack the armor. So, Fury is your friend!) and what order you should kill things in. But yeah, the safe spotting, knowing where stuff spawns, and invulnerability crystals for Jad make it pretty easy. Obtained quest cape and base 92 before obtaining any 99s! Currently finishing out my 99s with the (long-distant) goal of comp cape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterDexter Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Seriously, with a vague understanding of EOC and wearing obsidian armour, Urza's tips are more than enough. XDEven I, someone who only does PVM when it's required for a comp cape, can do the Kiln in half an hour without using more than 5 rocktails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wkw Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I'll be honest. Before eoc I couldn't do jad. Then when I came back, it was dead easy. Def abilities can lower damage by so much.. You really can't get 1 hit if you use a shield and deff abilities at random Runescape player since 2005 Ego Sum Deus Quo Malum Caligo et Barathum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urza285 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I just have to share one thing that occured to me... If we get a cut scene or series of dialogue within the elf city that heavily references the Frozen film I will probably bust out laughing. Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [in Progress]Visit my Blog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saradomin_Mage Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 - Wave 34 stand south of middle rock. - Wave 35 stand north of middle rock. - Wave 35 stand south of middle rock.What. Every one of these puts you in direct attack from the Jadz? In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urza285 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 - Wave 34 stand south of middle rock.- Wave 35 stand north of middle rock.- Wave 35 stand south of middle rock.What. Every one of these puts you in direct attack from the Jadz?Oopz lol... Wave 10 north faceWave 20 north faceWave 30 north faceWave 34 north faceWave 35 south faceWave 36 north face Also next ninja project is the divination dnd. We've already started working away on our next ninja project - a new Divination Distraction and Diversion! You may remember earlier in the year we ran a Player Power poll to decide which skill to make a DnD for, and Divination came out on top! The ninja team had a few things to get out of the way first - Soul Reaper was already on the cards, and we'd already done some work on expert skillcapes so we wanted to get both of those out of the door before focusing on the DnD, but now it can have our full attention! There'll obviously be much more information in the coming weeks, but we wanted to start by sharing our aims for the DnD, to give you an idea on what to expect and a chance to give feedback! The main aim is to add variation to the Divination training grind! With this in mind, it'll likely be something you can access from the Divination colony you are training at. It should offer a good Divination XP reward. More of a minor point, but there should be some incentive to work as a team with multiple players, however this should not be essential. The DnD will be accessible across all levels, and we are aiming to work in advantages or additional interactivity as you become higher level in Divination.It will only require Divination, no other skills. We intend for this to be something to participate in relatively often, e.g. once per hour. The DnD is planned to be a similar project size to Evil Trees, so relatively small. As always, things are subject to change, especially taking on board all your feedback. We'd love to hear what you have to say, or speculation about what the design could be! As an additional reminder, we will of course continue our general ninja improvements and fixes alongside the project :). Thanks, The Ninja Team Crystal hatchet straw poll: http://www.strawpoll.me/2536235 We plan to release a crystal hatchet and pickaxe in Batch 2 of Prifddinas. Which would you prefer: (Pick one) 1. A non-degrading crystal hatchet/pickaxe that replaces a dragon hatchet/pickaxe. (Can upgrade the dragon hatchet/pickaxe in your toolbelt.) 2. A degrading crystal hatchet/pickaxe that you can crystal sing from a tool seed, like other crystal tools. (You will not be able to add them to your toolbelt.) Also a new view from the tower of of voices: http://www.imgur.com/CPNlN39 Can someone fix this image so its not all janky. It keeps going to url. Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [in Progress]Visit my Blog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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