11th June 2009 - Macro-detection systems update

[noble_aloof]

i'm not sure if anyone else has heard of this, but one of my friends claims that a jagex mod came to his training spot that he usually macros at and accused him of using Rsbot, the jagex staff member claimed that they not only had detected him but also had tracked his account on rsbot forums to his MAIN and two pures.

 

 

 

by no means am i trying to start a rumor here, but my friend asked the mod if they had ever seen the movie "american gangster". the mod said yes and my friend continued. my friend said that he could provide the jmod with over 400 names of active bot users and could even get the account names of some of the most devious script-writers, in exchange for his freedom.

 

 

 

whether he was bsing or not, my friend said he is now at 9.8 blackmarks on all of his accounts after he sent the names of bot users and scripters..

 

 

 

has anybody heard of jagex mods contacting users in game? i don't know how much truth there is here.

[eviltom]

apparantly you can still apeal for botting my mate got banned and he could

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

We have reviewed all the macro programs available, and there are none we cannot detect.

 

 

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!111

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/spam]

 

 

 

Apologies, but the spam was required. From a software engineering standpoint, that is more false than saying Apple makes the best computers in the universe.

 

 

 

First of all, it is impossible to review every macro program "available". This cannot include custom programs not distributed publicly. If I were to write a macro program RIGHT NOW, the first part of Jagex's statement is proven false. Secondly, it is impossible to distinguish a macro program from a human with high efficiency, in this context. It is very easy to program a macro that could just about flawlessly mimic a human player; most authors are simply script kiddies and novice programmers, not even remotely experienced programmers, from what I have seen. The RuneScape cheating world is for the most part, filled with idiots. If you visit any RuneScape cheating website, you'll see questions like "how do i make ints?" and "whats a server?".

 

 

 

The only reason Jagex is able to catch a lot (and I'm using "a lot" here, not "all", because I don't believe in propaganda) of bots and macros is because they are poorly written and do not accurately mimic humans. You must consider mouse movement, clicking accuracy, clicking frequency, "mistakes", among other techniques. Many programs simply go: wait 0.5 seconds, click, wait 0.5 seconds, click... yes Jagex, you are so very intelligent for being able to detect that!

 

 

 

Their claims on today's news post are complete nonsense. While I don't advocate cheating or macroing, I also strongly disapprove of propaganda and misleading information. And the prospect of not even allowing macroers an appeal is disgusting. Looking at Jagex's incredible incompetency in the past, add to that their poor design skills in many areas, I find it extremely hard to believe they are capable of banning the right people with high enough accuracy to deny any sort of appeal.

[n64jive]

I agree that no appeals is wrong. The other guys post sums that up. I wish jagex had better means of customer support.

 

 

 

Working in the business world I found that some things are faster handled byphone communications. Not only that but sometimes its easier to make decisions as unclearity is easily notice in verbal versus email.

 

 

 

Also appeals give jagex a chance to better look at the case. Systems don't detect everything and often make mistakes. I think if they made the apeal process more difficult then those who feel wrongfully accused will be more willing to appeal vs those who don't care as much. 400 characters is not enough to submit a good appeal.

[Bauke]

Jard_Y_Dooku: You're right, but Jagex didn't have the intention to bring you an accurate depiction on what they're detecting system is all about. They want to scare you and try to warn people to not use macroing software. Most people will believe it anyways. And that's good, because we don't need macroers in this game.

[Johannas]

What annoys me the most is auto typers, and the fact they didn't even touch upon it.

 

 

 

And yes, it is an unfair advantage over other players.... ever tried selling something for more than 10 minutes on world 2? :roll:

[Latinoking]

No chance to appeal?

 

 

 

Sigh, I quit for sure now once my subscription is over..

 

 

 

Really appealing isn't a service or anything: IT'S A NECESSARY FEATURE TO PREVENT AND REDUCE THE MISTAKES!

 

 

 

Really, without any chance to combat a decision by jagex HOW DO WE KNOW FOR SURE JAGEX MAKES A CORRECT DECISION? - This is outrageous, and completely against the spirit of being an open company - Actually if this is set through it's something consumer organizations should adress!

 

If you read the newspost you would know they can detect any macro device and therefore will not ban people not using one.

 

 

 

If you're that naive, then I pity you. Every system makes mistakes-- there is an infinite amount of combinations between Jagex's bot detection system and any 3rd party programs you may be running. I personally know two people who have been wrongly banned for macroing, and one of them had it happen TWICE. No system is flawless. There is a reason that all courts have an appeals process-- without the ability to appeal something, your liberty is put in danger as without any cheques in power, a government teeters on the brink of fascism.

 

 

 

Very good points. But it seems that they want to install fear in people and hope with these threats that people will truly try to take them serious that macroing will get you banned with no chances to get back your account.

 

 

 

We all know how Jagex's appeal system is already flawed, but this is just taking it another step. They don't even care if it's a mistake on their detection system, they are just going to straight up banned you.

 

 

 

This truly does nothing to the Sweatshop Community, they will continue macroing and selling stuff through the Internet regardless, because they are always going to be people who want to cheat on games unfairly.

 

 

 

Their claims on today's news post are complete nonsense. While I don't advocate cheating or macroing, I also strongly disapprove of propaganda and misleading information. And the prospect of not even allowing macroers an appeal is disgusting. Looking at Jagex's incredible incompetency in the past, add to that their poor design skills in many areas, I find it extremely hard to believe they are capable of banning the right people with high enough accuracy to deny any sort of appeal.

 

 

 

+1, especially on the bolded part. Their track record isn't nothing to envy and the banning without any appeal is ridiculous. Their system isn't 100% correctly for the statements you mentioned.

[rangeor]

Tbh, that picture of Mil_Odedra's looks like a fake. They're in a members world, and it supposedly happened yesterday. Wouldn't that mean that there should be a summoning symbol near the minimap? I'm not blaming Mil at all, but I think somebody faked it.

 

 

 

 

 

Otherwise, great job Jagex.

 

1) The summoning icon doesn't appear if you haven't completed Wolf Whistle.

 

2) The world map icon is current. That's proof enough that it happened at least after last tuesday.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

I can understand the effort they are trying to make, but I don't approve of lying to the public to get what you want, even if it's for your and/or their own good. What good does dishonesty bring?

 

 

 

A real world example: the American NSA would LOVE to have you think they can break through the toughest encryption available in a short amount of time... like in Dan Brown's book, the NSA had a computer called TRANSLTR with 3 million processors which could break a 10,000 bit key in under an hour. In reality, even if they DID have a computer of that power, it would take them up to 3 x 10^9733 years to brute force an 8096-bit RSA encryption key. But they are happy with most people not knowing that.

[Hajutze]

I think they ment all the possible types of bots.

 

But c'mon, I can make a fletching bot with autohotkey that "should" be pretty hard to detect. Imagine :

 

I need 1 bank space , 1 knife. There are at least 15 ways to withdraw 27 logs from the bank (withdraw all , all but one , 10 + all, 10 + all but one, 10 + 10 + all ...). Then you have to use the knife with a log (27 possibilities there). After that you need to right click and type X 27 enter. Then some wait. Then you have to deposit them (27 possibilities again). Now imagine that your mouse has the possibility to click in a box 20x20 pixels (so 400 possibilities here). If you change the mouse speed now and then and the waiting/sleep is different (random from 500 to 1000 for ex.) there are at least 1,000,000 ways to do the same thing with the same code .... catch that ... (I have used similiar thing for another games, haven't used nor I will use AHK for runescape ... I just had to say that ...)

 

the only possible way I can think of is that the mouse moves in a straight line ..

 

 

 

 

 

soooo can someone explane to me , how can they catch the bot in the above example (I am just curious).

 

 

 

not to mention that this example was the most simple way to make a bot , no java , no complicated parts of a code ..

[Pinkbullet3]

I believe this happened yesterday too :

 

[hide=][/hide]

 

OWNED.

 

 

 

:lol: =D>

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

I think they ment all the possible types of bots.

 

But c'mon, I can make a fletching bot with autohotkey that "should" be pretty hard to detect. Imagine :

 

I need 1 bank space , 1 knife. There are at least 15 ways to withdraw 27 logs from the bank (withdraw all , all but one , 10 + all, 10 + all but one, 10 + 10 + all ...). Then you have to use the knife with a log (27 possibilities there). After that you need to right click and type X 27 enter. Then some wait. Then you have to deposit them (27 possibilities again). Now imagine that your mouse has the possibility to click in a box 20x20 pixels (so 400 possibilities here). If you change the mouse speed now and then and the waiting/sleep is different (random from 500 to 1000 for ex.) there are at least 1,000,000 ways to do the same thing with the same code .... catch that ... (I have used similiar thing for another games, haven't used nor I will use AHK for runescape ... I just had to say that ...)

 

the only possible way I can think of is that the mouse moves in a straight line ..

 

 

 

 

 

soooo can someone explane to me , how can they catch the bot in the above example (I am just curious).

 

 

 

You really can't catch that... even if you TRIED, you'd get far too many false positives. Basically the equivalent of not being able to catch it... AKA fail. By the way, are you Russian?

[casthewiz]

Very disturbing that they do not allow appeals for macroing. Knowing Jagex's "AWESUM UBAR RUAL BRAKEING DECTUCTSHUN", they're bound to ban someone that shouldn't be banned. But then again, Jagex hardly ever reads appeals, so I guess this won't matter. :roll:

[mister_moocky]

Now, how about a detector for AFKers? 30 minutes log-in and no clicks = auto logged off please?

[Hajutze]

 

You really can't catch that... even if you TRIED, you'd get far too many false positives. Basically the equivalent of not being able to catch it... AKA fail. By the way, are you Russian?

 

Well I am not a russian ... still I am slavic , the russian guess was pretty close lol :lol:

 

 

 

I wonder how can they catch a java based bot .. I dont want to risk with the AHK in runescape (maybe from another PC/another IP with another acc ... just to test how long will it take to get caught).

[casthewiz]

Now, how about a detector for AFKers? 30 minutes log-in and no clicks = auto logged off please?

 

Someone might be talking to a friend or fishing. You can easily go up to 30 minutes without clicking at lower fishing levels whilst trying to fish sharks or lobsters.

[Atom Smash40]

I believe this happened yesterday too :

 

[hide=][/hide]

 

mod mark L@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

 

 

 

lookat this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

this happend about 2 months ago or something. getting banned for mining botting, as well. and lookat my siggy!

[Zaaps1]

I don't think I'd trust Jagex's system enough to be at ease without an appeal. I mean, quite honestly if I were to seriously powermine, or rc using mousekeys, it would look like I was macroing, even though I'm not.

[Danqazmlp]

I believe this happened yesterday too :

 

[hide=][/hide]

 

mod mark L@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

 

 

 

lookat this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

this happend about 2 months ago or something. getting banned for mining botting, as well. and lookat my siggy!

 

 

 

Wow, they really don't care on the time taken into the account considering that pic^, that acc has a rc cape (from what i can see from that angle)

[Toad]

been mining past week, not seen mr mod come at all on my worlds did see a naughty 2350 macro mining for 3ish hours so i reported :P

[Zaaps1]

I believe this happened yesterday too :

 

[hide=][/hide]

 

mod mark L@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

 

 

 

lookat this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

this happend about 2 months ago or something. getting banned for mining botting, as well. and lookat my siggy!

 

 

 

Wow, they really don't care on the time taken into the account considering that pic^, that acc has a rc cape (from what i can see from that angle)

 

 

 

And it's trimmed :shock:

 

 

 

But that's just fair. Your level shouldn't decide the severity of your punishment.

[strilmus]

This is bittersweet. We all dislike macroers because they are blatant cheaters, but at the same time, they lower prices on raw materials that most sane people can't bear to get.

 

 

 

It's already pretty obvious that most of the skilling economy has gone out the window with the banning of macroers, simply because raw materials are too expensive now. I guess I should be happy that the cheaters are gone.

 

 

 

Well.....y'know, you could always go into raw material production.

 

 

 

There's more room for you now! :thumbup:

 

 

 

Switching topics......laying a trail of yews to lure bots to their death was pretty smart. I wish I knew that worked.

[Atom Smash40]

whoops, sorry about the spam earlier. heres my idea.

 

 

 

like yard said, yes they probably cant catch every single botter, though the majority of them are pretty dumb. like the computer prescision ones. but ive seen bots that dont make perfect clicks, that mess up their routines once in a while (after going through a loop, as those 'mistakes' are programmed in, but only like one per loop). whem im mining, i make plenty of mistakes. i click pickup on rocks, i click empty rocks, i double mine, i get sidetracked and dont go through the rotation so i wait for the next spawn in the same spot, etc. i dont know if one can program all of that into a private macro, and if they could, theyd have to make it a really long one, or else if those mistakes come up every so often in a particular sequence, then you can assume like 90% that they are botting....

[Master_Smither]

Seems like they are banning all other related accounts to the macroer such as mains, pures, skillers, etc. They are realy cracking down :shock:

[obfuscator]

I honestly think that their systems are over hyped - although I never have used a bot of any sort so I'm not sure what the main differences would be.