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Tip.It Times: 12 July 2009 - Addressing the Anti-Hack Key


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I would like the idea of a preset 10-digit pin + some other form of idendification you could use to log in if you ever were to lose or break this device. Not exactly that perhaps, but something along those lines. Also, the giving of more bank space because you are more secure is BS. I don't think this is a bribe, but instead a way to get more people to buy this device in order to make it economically viable, so that even if no profit is made, with more people buying it, there is less loss. I won't buy it however, unless I can get one at wal-mart or something...

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The anti-hack bribe article:

 

 

 

This is an excerpt form the wikipedia page on Two-factor authentication. I believe it pretty well describes what the device in question is. There is even a picture of one such device there.

 

 

 

"Some manufacturers also offer a One Time Password (OTP) token. These have an LCD screen which displays a pseudo-random number consisting of 6 or more alphanumeric characters (sometimes numbers, sometimes combinations of letters and numbers, depending upon vendor and model). This pseudo-random number changes at pre-determined intervals, usually every 60 seconds, but they can also change at other time intervals or after a user event, such as the user pushing a button on the token. Tokens that change after a pre-determined time are called time-based, and tokens that require a user event are referred to as sequence-based (since the interval value is the current sequence number of the user events, i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.). When this pseudo-random number is combined with a PIN or password, the resulting passcode is considered two factors of authentication (something you know with the PIN/password, and something you have from the OTP token). There are also hybrid-tokens that provide a combination of the capabilities of smartcards, USB tokens, and OTP tokens."

 

 

 

 

 

Here is the link to the wikipedia page:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-factor_authentication

 

 

 

Actually a pretty informative page as it also goes into drawbacks of these types of systems.

 

 

 

 

 

Usb devices are grounds for dismissal, yet you also say you have to sneak to play the game? Is playing the game grounds for dismissal as well? Sounds like you shouldn't be playing it at work period.

 

 

 

As for the comments on the PvP worlds being full, that was not always the case. I have the world select screen set-up to go by fewest people on a world. When Jagex first came out with the bounty worlds there were always 3 or 4 worlds with the fewest people and those were always some sort of PvP world. The only reason that they are full now is because of all the 26K scammers.

 

 

 

I do agree that the bank space is a bribe and should not be offered.

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hold the phone! each password can only be used one and its 6 numerical digits... that means a max of 1,000,000 passwords...

 

 

 

what if your one of those serious world hoppers who log in and out 200 times in 1 day... thats only 5000 passwords max... and they change every min so really the amt of login dont matter... lemme re think that... ok thats only 1.9025875190258751902587519025875 years worth of passwords... 1 year 329 days...330 if you figure the extra hours into a full day... so what happens after that? do they have to reset everybodies system?

 

 

 

they (jagex) did say they still got some figuribng out to do

 

 

 

i think 1 min is too often... maybe every 5 min? even 2 min would double the amt of times the thing would last before reset being needed

 

You assume it can't just naturally repeat previous passwords. There's no reason why it shouldn't be able to do so without some sort of reset. Even if you do have to reset it, I'm sure it wouldn't be a very tedious process considering you only have to do it once every 38 years (38 years since the average user would only login about 10 times a day at most. The people that log in 50+ times are outliers).

 

 

 

 

 

On topic with the articles, I utterly disagree with the anti-hack article. Couldn't be bothered reading the other two, I don't read fiction and I've had enough with reading about the 26k trick. The anti-hack article had quite a few things taking away from it's credibility, such as misguiding views on the operation of the dongle. Namely, saying it would get people fired from work (Hiding it should not be the hardest thing in the world. Neither do I believe that such a device would even get someone in trouble.) and also saying it would have something to do with USB ports, which Andrew Gower debunked. Another fault I can remember from memory is that it assumed that kids who buy this device will: A) Be vocal about playing RuneScape at their school. Most play secretively. B) Bring their dongle to school. Most schools, at least where I live, have their computers blocking sites and restricting permitions enough to stop kids from playing Runescape. C) Parents would oversee the purchase of the dongle, and therefore take the initiative to tell their child not to bring their dongle to school. So losing their dongle due to bullying is really of minimal concern.

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Hi all, this is my first post on this forums, and I know that starting with some critisicm is not the best thing I can do, but after reading the article, I had to say something...

 

I'd like to comment on the anti-hack bribe article, and share my opinion about the device. CatherbyCurmudgeon may be an IT professional, but common sense is not his strong point (I mean by this that he talked about a USB device, but this already have been mentioned).

 

The other thing I didn't like about the article was that CatherbyCurmudgeon talked about RS like it was a second job for him.

Sell me bank space, just dont do it as a bonus for a product that will make the game more inconvenient and feel more like work than it already does, when Im doing the work of leveling and grinding.

 

Man, I mean gaming is about having fun!

 

I could write more like this, but I don't want to analyse his life.

 

 

 

So the idea that I like about the device most is not safety, but having a real-life object that represents my character, even if they don't look alike. More security is also a good point of purchasing, but luckily I haven't been hacked in the last 7 years, since I'm using the net.

 

About the problems that were mentioned in this topic:

 

I personally don't like world hopping, I don't know why, but the idea of getting more gold by watching the login screen for a considerable time just disturbs me... as I said gaming is about having fun! But having to enter a key every time you log in can be fixed, JaGex can design a system where you can choose how often you have to enter the key.

 

Another problem was that Jagex is trying to bribe us with bank space. Although it undoubtly gives some advantage for most palyers, but it would take many spaces to have some sensible effect. If you have some space left in your bank, it will fill eventually, just like you can use up all your space on your hard drive. And I also think that some players won't have any benefit from the extra bank space. I used to be a memeber, and filled my bank. Since I'm not a member anymore, getting some extra bank space won't change anything for me. And I don't think I'm the only one in this situation.

 

So, that is my opinion about the topic. I hope I made myself clear (English is not my native language), and thank you if you read it all through.

 

 

 

ps.: This just came to my mind: with this device and a bank pin, it would be possible to lend accounts to each other almost safely. Which means that there will be some people, who will lend accounts (maybe for money). Anybody has a thought on this?

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I think the Times article about the key was very poor indeed. I think most people have already explained the flaws in the argument but i am going to do the same to settle my own mind.

 

 

 

[hide=]I've seen many updates in my time where gamers have cried, "Jagex has lost touch!" It didn't take an update for me to say thatit took a news post. Jagex recently announced the "Anti-Hack" device. I will now preface my opinions on this new update by first saying it's comforting to know that Jagex is 1, willing to take a loss to make us safer, and 2, they are in this game for the long-haul. And let it be known that I have the utmost respect for Jagex.[/hide]

 

Agreed. I used to hate these things and found them really inconvinient at first.I respect any organisation to offer such a service which is clearly at loss to them in some way shape or form either the physical cost of the devices or in the development behind it.

 

 

 

[hide=]As an IT professional, I am all for security, honestly, I preach it to clients day in and day out; but people are naïve about passwords, and many pick really sad and pathetic passwords. Companies have reacted by requiring multi-faceted authentication for devices, so idiots dont have to think about creating a secure password. Do we need one for RuneScape? Hell no. This is a game that, whether you like it or not, is mostly played by children the ages of 10-18, most of whom go to public schools and who probably encounter other RuneScape players daily. Selling a physical device to kids isnt smart. What's stopping a bully from beating up a child for his RuneScape key and password? Not much. Secondly, does Jagex know where adults play? I play at work. As an adult I play RuneScape because 1, my friends play, and 2, its about all I can sneak on at work because of its Java browser-based design. USB devices are grounds for dismissalno thanks.[/hide]I really wish people wouldn't preach their job titles as if it gives any weight to their argument. Usability expert Jakob Nielsen and security expert Bruce Schneier recently publisghed a whitepaper suggesting the masked passwords should goas it gives a false sense of security. Only a week later they retracted the document and issued a statement saying that they were "probably wrong".

 

 

 

I would go as far to say that having such a device accross Jagex games and sites (I presume this would not just be for Runescape) actually educates people on good password and security practice for the future when using similar keys for online banking or checking mortages etc.

 

 

 

The bully argument is a straw man. Of course there is nothing stopping a bully from beating up a kid for their key but then there is equal change of someone getting beaten up if they didnt have one for their password. In both cases I think the change of getting beaten up over runescape is between slim and none anyway. Plus they should not be taking their key into school anyway.

 

 

 

where does Jagex think most people play... home I would hope. As you say you are a security professional and knowing the dangers of drive by downloads I am shocked to hear you playing Runescape at work.

 

 

 

You also confuse actual USB devices with those described by Jagex as the "same size as a usb stick". Other people ans Jagex have already clarified that point though so I wont go into more detail on that.

 

 

 

[hide=]Its awfully sweet of Jagex to poll us, but currently 48% of RuneScape players would pay $10 for a low price for a device of this nature, and on the terms that they get more bank space. Sounds like players just want bank space, and bank space Jagex would give us, as they might feel it would make us more secure. I dont know about you, but Id probably drop my least valuable item or use up a material I was hoarding to free up space for a purchase. I dont think the extra 5, 10, 15 or even 50 spaces would increase my net worth to a point to where, if I was hacked, I would be upset about losing those additional items. Why not give it to me now? It's silly Jagex cut costs over the years by pretty much hiding Classic in an obscure corner, limiting it down to one server so few PvP worlds that they have, are full. Yet Jagex is willing to take an illogical, and perhaps massive, loss to the company's bottom line to make us more secure. While noble, and even perhaps honorable, I still don't see it as an effective and worthy venture.[/hide]You are right here when you suggest that people just want bank space. However there are still a lot of people replying to the poll willing to pay ther higher figures with no incentive of bank space. I don't know what level you are in your skills but certainly as you get a higher level it becomes increasingly difficult to store all the items you need in your bank. Dropping items to make space just isnt an option for some people. Bank space generally only comes when a new skill is released due to the extra space requires. The last time we got more bank space was after the release of Summoning. The next skill is scheduled for some times next year so we can probably expect some more space then too. I dont really understand your point about your Runescape classic argument when we know that Jagex are working on making public RSC servers for people to play on in a kind of "cheat mode". The cash costs of these devices which you consider a loss could be made up on less staff time sorting out "hacked" accounts and customer service issues. It it also good PR and perhaps "free advertising" to the industry. You have to look furthar than just the money spent on the devices before considering "loss".

 

 

 

[hide=]Jagex has long said they would never charge money for an in-game advantage; if they wanted to sell me a godsword, Id plunk down $50, but bank space? I shouldnt have to buy a type of security for that advantage. While I am not immune to being hacked, I don't think I need an even higher level of security when the restrictive RWT updates have given less incentive for a hacker to hack you; I really don't think I need the same level of protection I use at my job. Which other MMOs offer such wonderful security options? WoW does, and, on top of that, they also have a support line; and, in my view, better customer service. And you know what? Blizzard can restore gold and items, a service that RuneScape is either unable or unwilling to do. I don't see this newest system as viable, unless Jagex decides to step it up and be more like the industry leader in MMO customer service and security, a title that Blizzard holds. Heck, how secure is the RuneScape login anyway? Its not case-sensitive. If I lose my key, Im screwed; and what if I get it damaged? Screwed again. If lost, would I just have to wait on Jagex to ship me a new one, forcing me to wait to play RuneScape? From a firm's point of view, it is increasingly beneficial to buy thin computers without USB drives because of information theft and industrial sabotage; what if my firm does the same? Then I cant play at work. The key is not necessary, thats fine. I wont feel any more secure by spending a small sum of money on this option when I am confident in my security as is, and I doubt Ill even buy the bank space alone.[/hide]I thyink Andrew pretty summed up your argument in his post. Basicly the idea of extra bankspace is no more real world trading than paying for members. WoW may have better support in your opinion but they also rake in 3 to 4 times the money per player per year and have a much larger customer base in the first place. I also dispute that Blizzards ability to restore gold and items is a good thing. This is open to widespread abuse.

 

 

 

It is an interesting question you pose about the current security of runescape. I agree with the issue about case sensetivity and I hope this is something implemented in the future. However with keyloggers it really doesnt matter what format your password is. If there is keystroke monitoring software on your computer (malicious or not) then 'Banana' is just as secure as 'dfg@d#rtHfg423'. If the key is lost then I would expect there to be a facility online where the old key is blocked and a new key is sent out (for a fee). This is pretty standard and no basis for argument. You also bring up the usb drive point again. We have already established this is invalid so I will not detail it again.

 

 

 

[hide=]If I recall, we were told bank space was limited for technical reasons, so its ironic that, after you make a purchase for security, it can be tossed in as a bonus. Switching servers would take longer, a nightmare for resource gathering if the worlds are crowded, not to mention PvPing. I am all for added security, but to throw on benefits for doing it makes it seem like a bribe. Its almost like Jagex is offering one of the most demanded requests in order to sell a product that the majority of people dont need. But how much bank space are they talking about for $10? 5 spaces, 20, 50, 100, unlimited? How much space is $10 really worth? Id pay $10 for space, Id also buy some godswords off of Jagex if they would sell them, but they wont. It's unfair for me to gain an advantage over other players who dont have the money. Money isnt my issue at all, but Im sure it will affect some. I dont see how offering bank space for people is any more of an advantage to Jagex's profit than selling godswords or GP for cash.[/hide]

 

It isnt really fair to call Jagex up on them saying that bankspace was limited for technical reasons. A recent developer blog about bank end systems shows that perhaps they are woprking to address issues such as this and that maybe bankspace limits is not an issue any more.

 

 

 

I dont really see how switching worlds would take longer wiuth the key. I'm afraid I cant find the exact post but i recall hearing that the device basicly unlocks your account for a few hours or works provided you dont close the tab/browser. You would not need to use the key for each and every login attempt and as such the argument about hopping and pvp is moot.

 

 

 

As for the amount of bank space, noone knows and i would think that Jagex probably haven't decided this yet either so its not really worth arguing about. I disagree that we are buying bankspace with this, i dont see it as any different to getting more bankspace with p2p. I am however slightly concerned that you would be willing to real world trade for items such as godswords.

 

 

 

An interesting article to read but fundamentally flawed in every way.

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Inflation is very bad for people like me who not played in the last few months.

 

I just wonder how much I have lost due to inflation :(

 

...i haven't played rs for about 2 months now....though i <3: inflation since all my money is invested into d claws which i bought at 27m ea.....

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The Anti Hack article was a good read although I wasn't keen on the author only looking from there point of view.

 

I read half of the article as if the author was saying "hey its not going to help me so stuff it".

 

The other half was a protest at the player buying in game space, but isn't that exactly what membership is about?

 

One could use his argument to say P2P should have no more space then F2P.

 

 

 

The inflation article was interesting, but the talk of it not effecting the game as the money goes on skills is hit and miss.

 

For example if I spend 20m on summoning or prayer and only "trick" then its not effecting the economy. However if I use the summoning or prayer level to to stay at a boss then its affecting the economy.

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Well written and well-spoken. :thumbup: Very opinionated but with a good attitude. I hope Jagex staff reads the article and understand that an external hardware solution to internet (virtual) security is nothing but a hassle.

 

 

 

-Boucher

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Pertaining to Blizzard's "golden" support, that is both true, and untrue. WoW may have excellent support, but for any of Blizzard's other games, support is comparatively worse than Runescape's support, citing Diablo 2, a game from 1999, as a perfect example. They cannot replace items, they send automated messages, and they generally just do not care, which, considering their ability to remove and delete items, just as Jagex can, is similarly unacceptable.

 

 

 

Second, Jagex is not bribing anyone, this is the wrong term to use. The added bank space is called an incentive, or a device used to incite action, in our case, the action would be buying their security product. No money is payed for the bank space, the space is free, with purchase of the security device, of course. In terms of the bank space itself, CPU ability/power doubles ~every 10 months at absolutely no cost, and the same goes for the Runescape engine. Using an outdated statement such as bank space affecting the game's limitations can be tossed out the window.

 

 

 

I can, however, agree that a flash drive as a security device would not benefit in the least. What I can propose, however, is a process that runs in the background, as opposed to an external tool. This could be limited to a software device, that runs similar to a firewall, but, like a firewall, this is vulnerable to attack. Then, what comes to mind, is an actual attachment to the Runescape engine, a player specific security mechanism that acts much like an automated bank pin.. although, this may contribute to horrendous bugs, and game lag. The options are out there, though.

 

 

 

As people keep attempting to put the bank space incentive in the same boat as purchasing, for example, Godsword's for currency, this is universally untrue. Bank space, unlike armor and weapons, is not a commodity, it is a benefit, which is maintained every 30 days for the payment of the membership fee. In-game coins are commodities, just as maple logs, and flax are. Extra skills, added quests, and faster training methods are benefits, which is what you pay for as a Runescape member. Members-only items are not benefits, but are a commodity which are a product of paying for benefits. P2p, is not an expansion of f2p. F2p, on the other hand, is a restricted version of P2p. A membership pays for the benefit of playing the full version of Runescape, which, in turn, allows access to the full array of commodities. Getting extra bank space, as an incentive, is the same thing as paying for a membership. This is by default. People, in reality, have to pay money for benefits: For health benefits, for dental plans, automobile premiums... By paying for such, you're allowed expanded commodities, such as a longer life (Time is a commodity, as well as a benefit), the ability to drive legally (You need a certain level of insurance coverage to drive a car legally), and the list can go on.

 

 

 

What this ultimately comes down to, is jealousy. Most in opposition are those who do not wish to pay money for benefits, but want everyone else to be on the same level as themselves. This is selfishness embodied. This is also an unrealistic idea of how benefits coincide with wealth. It's the same as someone who cannot afford a whip being on a lower level than someone who can. This is a true statement.

 

 

 

This is all pertinent to "Addressing the Anti-Hack Key".

 

 

 

Concerns, and criticisms?

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While reading the anti-hack article I could help but find myself disagree-ing with the majority of what was said. The hardware issue that was presented has been addressed as it just seems that the author forgot to update his original understanding. Something that I think people are forgetting is that Jagex has hinted at new logins designed to have a seperate login-character name. With the addition of a system like this (one seen in the majority of mmos) there will be an increased security but more importantly, more grounds for things such as the security dongle. If implemented correctly, the player would simply have to log in once with the dongle, then pick the server as needed. This would allievate the majority of the concerns voiced here.

 

 

 

And secondly, the extra bank space is an incentive, not Jagex selling things to players. Realistically how drastically would additional bank space change the game?

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Since the first article was written before Andrew's post, I shall not comment on that.

 

 

 

 

 

The economy started balancing right off the bat. When big items like the Bandos Chestplate rose so did yew logs. Not to mention items have already started dropping. Furthermore the main reason that most items dropped was because they were taken out of the PvP drop tables and heavily manipulated by price manipulators. For 26king to make upwards of 1m/hr you have to be over 110 combat and you have to have a decent amount of luck. Gathering for money is mainly done by lower levels who can't profit greatly from the 26k trick. This is the reason I wrote this article, to address all the misconception that goes around the recent inflation.

 

 

 

I'm afraid there isn't much you can do besides stare at your pretty cash pile. The reason I addressed that was to point out that these are the only people being hurt and most of the time if someone has over 100M cash they intend to buy some 99's or are saving for something, so it doesn't effect as many people as many think.

 

 

 

 

 

So the formula is, train your combat to level 110+, then do some 26k tricking, and buy your resources for 99 skills, until the day when gathering raw materials yourself becomes more profitable than 26k tricking. I wonder how much would prayer pots and sharks be priced at by that time?

 

 

 

Some of these so called demand isn't even a true demand. The fact is keep cash around in your bank is going reduce your buying power everyday, and as such people are buying items to keep so that they can maintain the level of their wealth. My friend and I are always discussing on what items to buy next, and he's buying weapons and armour that he doesn't even use. (Who uses 3 armadyl platelegs anyway?)

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"I play at work. As an adult I play RuneScape because 1, my friends play, and 2, its about all I can sneak on at work because of its Java browser-based design. USB devices are grounds for dismissalno thanks"

 

 

 

You lost me right there.

 

Can't be bothered to read another sentence, because your whining that you might get fired playing the game if Jagex ups the security on it.

 

Also, who says its a USB device anyhow, most hardware keys fit into PCI slots.

 

Trying looking in the back of any computer driving analytical instruments of $20,000+, they all have keys like that.

 

What kid is going to pop things out of pci slots and run around with it?

 

Only thing I hate about them is they sometimes go bad and then the whole thing won't work until you call somebody down from the company to install a new one. :wall:

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While reading the anti-hack article I could help but find myself disagree-ing with the majority of what was said. The hardware issue that was presented has been addressed as it just seems that the author forgot to update his original understanding. Something that I think people are forgetting is that Jagex has hinted at new logins designed to have a seperate login-character name. With the addition of a system like this (one seen in the majority of mmos) there will be an increased security but more importantly, more grounds for things such as the security dongle. If implemented correctly, the player would simply have to log in once with the dongle, then pick the server as needed. This would allievate the majority of the concerns voiced here.

 

 

 

And secondly, the extra bank space is an incentive, not Jagex selling things to players. Realistically how drastically would additional bank space change the game?

 

I have to agree with this. I think this is a good idea and don't really see it as paying for more bank space. The space is an extra bonus for paying for the dongle and making your account more secure. A friend of mine has one of these for World of Warcraft and it works great. Several other games make them available. I don't see what the big deal is.

 

 

 

I think the only real problem with the security dongle is the potential for it to get lost and for the owner to have to wait to play until it is found or they get a new one or whatever other solution there is. No one is being required to get one. If you don't want one, don't get one. I don't see how Jagex hiring a whole slew of customer support people would cost them less than whatever they are spending on this. That makes no sense at all.

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I feel it is a bit excessive of security for this game, so I doubt I'd ever buy the key, but I am a bit peeved at the thought of offering extra bank space with it. I would rather see a greater investment made in customer support.

 

 

 

Also, I am willing to bet a large portion of players are quite young and will be prone to losing their key. Not everyone who plays carries a set of keys with them.

 

+1 :thumbup: I agree completely.

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dont agree with the dudes view on the anithackin thing at all. imo they are gettin tired of players, mostly members, accounts gettin hacked and there stuff either dropped or traded some new way to other accounts making the owner of the hijacked account get mad and/or quit makin them lose money. i see the antihackin thing as jagex's answer to this, and making it optional doesnt hurt anyone. i also bet they aint gonna lose money on this cause with the massive amount of players that are gonna wanna buy this i highly doubt they will even do it at all unless they are gonna make a nice profit off of it. and the extra bank space may be a bribe to get more ppl to buy this thing so they can make more accounts safe (keep them from losin money), and sell more of these lil devices (make them money).

 

 

 

if u think its gonna hindrance u in your everday scapin then dont get it but if youre afraid of gettin ur account hacked and havin all your work reduced to nothing get it and scape on.

 

 

 

oh and mmh has said himself that the average age of the player is 19+ so throw the 10-18 thing out

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Dk drops: 37 Barrows: 11 Dragon: 33 Visage: 2 Whip: 5 Dark Bow: 1

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I'm not sure what new arguments I can bring to the table, after 4 pages worth of discussion, but I'll give it my best.

 

 

 

Which other MMOs offer such wonderful security options? WoW does, and, on top of that, they also have a support line; and, in my view, better customer service. And you know what? Blizzard can restore gold and items, a service that RuneScape is either unable or unwilling to do. I don't see this newest system as viable, unless Jagex decides to step it up and be more like the industry leader in MMO customer service and security, a title that Blizzard holds.

 

 

 

Do I sense bitterness, or is it my imagination? The author just appears to have a slightly aggressive tone in my opinion.

 

 

 

In any case, I find it rather unfair to compare these two classes of Customer Service. Blizzard, having a higher membership fee, has eliminated the majority of their younger players. Older players with more experience are less likely to be losing their gold and items. With such a case, it becomes easier to offer customer service to a smaller crowd. However, I agree that there are perhaps other possibilities, such as allowing customer service to P2P only for example.

 

oh and mmh has said himself that the average age of the player is 19+ so throw the 10-18 thing out

 

The average player has claimed that he/she is +19. Besides, with over 4 million accounts in total, there are many accounts below that level.

 

 

 

If I lose my key, Im screwed; and what if I get it damaged? Screwed again. If lost, would I just have to wait on Jagex to ship me a new one, forcing me to wait to play RuneScape?

 

 

 

That's a little unfair. The author cannot be sure that there will be no way to redeem a broken/lost item. Perhaps a piece of paper comes with it with a code to redeem? I wouldn't know, but then, the author does not either. That's the point.

 

 

 

What's stopping a bully from beating up a child for his RuneScape key and password? Not much.

 

 

 

On that note, what's top stop a bully from beating up a child for just the password?

 

 

 

The other article I felt summed it up perfectly in its last paragraph. The economy will come back to some form of equilibrium in time. And of course, the story was great. I enjoyed it.

 

 

 

I seem to have made quite the wall of text. I appreciate it if you made it all the way. ;)

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-Anti-hack key-

 

 

 

I agree with the post. I don't usually get on RS forums, but I sure did to let them know I didn't agree with them thinking about offering bank space for the key. If they were so worried about security, they would sell it just above cost and leave it at that.

 

 

 

The only ones who will buy it anyway, are the ones who are paranoid about losing their accounts. The ones who truly need it, (the pw sharers, macro users, and those who couldn't update a virus protection program if their life depended on it) would never use it.

 

 

 

Besides like stated, most RS users are younger and either don't pay for their accounts, or barely have enough to cover costs on members. (Or don't understand how security works anyways.)

 

 

 

Sadly, Rs is becoming kidscape, and Jagex is really trying to tailor the game to them. Look at the past year or so of updates. You can't even die in the game anymore from randoms, and if you die at all you got an eternity to recover your stuff. (I feel like my hand is being held at every corner) Sad really. RS used to feel so free, where you could do all kinds of things. Now it feels boxed in and very restricted. Full of safe-guards and my mommy standing over me with a hankie for my nose. :/

 

World of Warcraft is becoming more and more appealing every update. A shame though, for I got 3 years invested in this one.

 

 

 

Good fight.

99 Fletch/Cook/Farm

{Started- 11/06}

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No offense to Jagex, but they severely ripped this idea off of a different MMO. Final Fantasy XI came up with the "Security Token" idea back in February, and started running it in April. This is NOT an original idea, as I have a Security Token already for Final Fantasy XI.

 

 

 

3653711873_9f2fff6595.jpg?v=0

 

Picture of the token

 

 

 

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/2009_-_(03/31/2009)_Square_Enix_Security_Token_Release_Date_Details

 

The site with proof

 

 

 

Now I'm not saying they were the FIRST people, but I'm saying that Jagex took it from FFXI. I love Runescape, but I'm just bringing this to people's attention.

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No offense to Jagex, but they severely ripped this idea off of a different MMO. Final Fantasy XI came up with the "Security Token" idea back in February, and started running it in April. This is NOT an original idea, as I have a Security Token already for Final Fantasy XI.

 

Let this be the last time this is said: Jagex is not copying anyone's idea to implement this kind of key. So just drop it already. Please.

 

 

 

The only ones who will buy it anyway, are the ones who are paranoid about losing their accounts. The ones who truly need it, (the pw sharers, macro users, and those who couldn't update a virus protection program if their life depended on it) would never use it.

 

 

 

...hence, the incentive. We all know that people just won't do what's good for them, not even if their lives depended on it. Giving them some extra bank space as part of the deal would get everyone interested, so it isn't just the well-informed that have the key (which is actually very good security) and some bank space to boot.

Linux User/Enthusiast Full-Stack Software Engineer | Stack Overflow Member | GIMP User
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...Alright, the Elf City update lured me back to RS over a year ago.

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[

 

Let this be the last time this is said: Jagex is not copying anyone's idea to implement this kind of key. So just drop it already. Please.

 

 

 

So you're saying they came out of no where and said "We should make a Security Token for users to carry around on their keychain!" No, they took the idea from another company. I'm not saying others haven't taken ideas, I'm just stating that they took that idea. Numerous companies steal ideas from other companies, and Jagex isn't the first, and Jagex won't be the last. Blizzard is already contemplating the SAME idea, along with a few other MMOs, it's a good idea, and I believe all MMOs should have the option, I'm just stating what I think, I don't have proof, I just believe this, and I have my right to state it, and this is where you discuss it, so...

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[

 

Let this be the last time this is said: Jagex is not copying anyone's idea to implement this kind of key. So just drop it already. Please.

 

 

 

So you're saying they came out of no where and said "We should make a Security Token for users to carry around on their keychain!" No, they took the idea from another company. I'm not saying others haven't taken ideas, I'm just stating that they took that idea. Numerous companies steal ideas from other companies, and Jagex isn't the first, and Jagex won't be the last. Blizzard is already contemplating the SAME idea, along with a few other MMOs, it's a good idea, and I believe all MMOs should have the option, I'm just stating what I think, I don't have proof, I just believe this, and I have my right to state it, and this is where you discuss it, so...

 

 

 

 

 

I'll bet ya Final Fantasy didn't invent them either.

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[Whip drops: 13]

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...hence, the incentive. We all know that people just won't do what's good for them, not even if their lives depended on it. Giving them some extra bank space as part of the deal would get everyone interested, so it isn't just the well-informed that have the key (which is actually very good security) and some bank space to boot.

 

 

 

But if the key is really that important to security, then why not just make it mandatory for all? I imagine that would be a much tougher sale to force everybody to buy one for their own accounts. I own 4 accounts; I certainly wouldn't be buying 4 different keys for each one. They would risk ending up losing members if it was mandatory, which is not their goal. I know I'd probably quit playing.

 

 

 

The bank space is a marketing ploy. It's to get enough people interested in buying the key, not so more people will be safe, but so Jagex can minimize any losses, or even come out ahead. They are going to need enough people willing to buy the key to make it worth their while, not ours.

 

 

 

Is it a horrible thing they are trying to do with the key? No, I don't think so. Personally, I'm not interested in it, but if others are that's great. I don't like the idea of an in-game incentive though. Why not give them something off the Jagex store, or a month's free membership instead.

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I'd say it's not a smart way to keep your customers happy if you obligate them to buy a key that is also an extra hassle when logging in. Jagex provides enough security. The key is a useful addition for those who want extra security, to protect them from screw-ups from which they are responsible themselves.

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